Flashings will make WP cross the 10% threshold - Lumia and Surface Phones

[Jorge Holguin]

I will use a car analogy for a moment to show why a flagship devices are need it and are important in any hardware company. I've been reading some comments where some argue that flashing devices are not need it. You are delusional if you believe that is true. There are people that will never buy a Toyota, Nissan or a Kia car, not because they can't but because they do not want to. We use the term "luxury" when it comes to cars and there is a reason why and why they have so many loyal costumers: They stand apart from the rest. Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan and others understand this and that is why each one of them have a luxury brand under their wings

Ford - Lincoln
GM - Cadillac
Toyota - Lexus
Nissan - Infinity

People that uses Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, Porches, among others luxury brand will never buy a none luxury car. One because their status in society and other because they want the best of the best. Everybody wants one but no everybody can afford it, that is why we have the Toyotas, Nissan, Mazda…. . The same can be say about phones. If you read around over the web or even hear people talking about phones many of them would not use any phone that is not a flagship Smartphone. That is one of the reason Apple has some many loyal costumers and why so many OEMs have a flashing device on the market.

MS already said that they will release a flagship device when W10 is ready and I believe it will be awesome. Let's put all the piece of the puzzle together and you will see why the wait would be worth for.

1 - MS joined FIDO 2.0 : open standard and use alternative authentication methods based on third-party biometric readers.
Windows 10 Could Kill the Password, Let You Log In with Eye Scans - Softpedia

2 - QUALCOMM 810
3 - Intel X3 : Better performance for its class.
Devices with the X3 chips will be priced from under $75 to $249.
Supports “quality graphics,” high-definition video, a 13-megapixel rear camera and 5-megapixel front camera.
A desktop mode that will Windows Phone devices runs full Windows 10 desktop when docked.
Windows Phone Devices Based On Intel's Latest X3 Smartphone Chip May Come Later This Year - WMPoweruser

4 - OEM: Carriers demand Windows Phones: OEM: Carriers demand Windows Phones - WMPoweruser

5 - Windows 10 and the hole "Universe app" mantra.
6 - Hosted Web Apps: "Microsoft has said that not only will hosted web apps be permitted entry to the store -- so they'll be hosted on developers' servers -- but these apps will be able to make use of universal APIs. This means that the apps will be able to generate notifications, access data on a phone when required, and make use of hardware such as the microphone or camera as and when appropriate; there's even potential for hosted web apps to tie into Cortana." Hosted web apps could solve Microsoft's Windows Phone problems

7 - Every acquisition MS had made last year and this year: Yes we haven't seen any of them on WP just the other two but MS will make them native in W10 giving us the best experience, period.

There are so many prior WP users that left because the lack of a flagship device and vowed to come back when MS release one. Yes W10 will be amazing on our last flagships [920, 925, 1020, 1520, 930] but guess what they are old technology. You can say otherwise but facts are facts. Nobody wants the 2013 luxury car unless you can't afford the 2015 one. The same goes with flagship phones.

But this time MS have to be above the competition and give people a reason to comeback or switch. Just look at the latest iPhone 6/6+ and Galaxy Edge they are beautiful and each one has it own advantage. Just as the Surface Pro 3 did, build something generated curiosity and conversation, that makes heads turn when see it.

Last but not least, just as every other OEM MS has to release two flagship devices. Surface and Lumia. Because of MS strategy the Lumia brand has lost its shine a bit and many see it as mid/low - range devices. I do not have issues with this strategy but we can denied it has affected the Lumia brand. Finally, let's get rid off the number lists [520, 535, 630, 635, 920, 925, 1020, 1520, 730, 830, 930, 640, 640XL, 820 and so on] too many numbers and yes it is confusing for those none WP users. Make it simple, have the two flashings, one mid-range and one low-range line. Assign the mid and low ends with just one number and just update it every year or two.

 

[EMINENT 1]

Yeah, they do need to ditch the Lumia name people mis-pronounce lumina or relegate it to mid-low range devices. The numbering scheme also has got to go. Surprised it hasn't been cut off at the knees yet. Just terrible.

They need to produce a Surface branded phone. The SP3 is a winner and having phone mimic this class leader will bring a new image to W10 on mobile.

 

[Jorge Holguin]

There are some strong rumors that MS will release two more Surface tablets 4 & mini. They should be bundle in some way with the flashing phones. We have the best OS and beautiful hardware. The new phones have to blow the competition away hardware wise.

 

[Zephyr716]

Honestly I'd love to see a 5.5in or 6in Surface Phone with badass specs

 

[Legoboyii]

I'm dying from the horrible grammar that I can't take anybody here seriously.

Flashing???? What is that!? Do you mean a FLAGSHIP device? And why do people keep bringing up Surface its a TABLET brand. Surface QUALITY then why not would make for a nice FLAGSHIP, but not a literal Surface phone.

Dock for full windows!? Why do people keep assuming that's going to be part of windows 'phone' 10 its a MOBILE device for pete's sake. Yould need a 32 GB hdd device MINIMUM for what you're insinuating. To add insult to injury the experience would be downright terrible to use a tiny phone screen as a desktop. Even the 1520 could have a rough time.

Remove the numbering system? Oh so you think a bunch of random names will help Lumia. Ok then tell me, how will the names differentiate between devices in terms of hardware. Wait... It wont at all ! At least the system WORKS though it needs some fine tuning because of specific devices that are out there like the 1320 in the middle of the flagship ranges.

 

[Jorge Holguin]

I'm dying from the horrible grammar that I can't take anybody here seriously.

Flashing???? What is that!? Do you mean a FLAGSHIP device? And why do people keep bringing up Surface its a TABLET brand. Surface QUALITY then why not would make for a nice FLAGSHIP, but not a literal Surface phone.

Dock for full windows!? Why do people keep assuming that's going to be part of windows 'phone' 10 its a MOBILE device for pete's sake. Yould need a 32 GB hdd device MINIMUM for what you're insinuating. To add insult to injury the experience would be downright terrible to use a tiny phone screen as a desktop. Even the 1520 could have a rough time.

Remove the numbering system? Oh so you think a bunch of random names will help Lumia. Ok then tell me, how will the names differentiate between devices in terms of hardware. Wait... It wont at all ! At least the system WORKS though it needs some fine tuning because of specific devices that are out there like the 1320 in the middle of the flagship ranges.

First thanks for the grammar lesson, 'Flashing - flagship' we get it. Users are asking for a Surface brand device because of its 'quality,' performance and beauty. Can the dock work for W10 mobile yes it can now that Intel X3 is coming up there are good opportunities to make this happen, options to the user. Intel is known to have some of the best chips when it comes to tablets/PCs. Finally, MS should get it off that number scheme, It is not working 2.8% market share. MS is trying to fill up every category out there taking focus off of the main product. Android has so many low-end phones no because one company did it all but because the many OEMs building them, MS is trying to fill the vacuum And now that MS is signing up OEMs they shall let the low-end to them and focus on flagship/flashing and maybe one or two mid-range devices. Make it simple [iPhone 6/6+, Samsung 6s/edge] for people to remember.
Btw this is a forum don't take grammar to seriously, chill out we just trying to have some fun up here.... cheers..... :winktongue::evil:

 

[Zephyr716]

Legoboyii understood what you meant yet had to make a big deal out of it.... Please go get laid kid

 

[rhapdog]

Dock for full windows!? Why do people keep assuming that's going to be part of windows 'phone' 10 its a MOBILE device for pete's sake.

I don't assume it will be part of Windows 10 for phones. However, it is something I would love to see in a future flagship.

Windows 10 can have the capability to "change" the scaling according to the device it is currently being utilized by. Docking should send a signal to change the scaling accordingly, as well as to allow desktop apps.

Now, by docking, I would like to see it the way my laptop does it. I plug my laptop into a dock, close the lid, and use an external keyboard, mouse, and rather largish monitor. Gives me a full Desktop, complete with external USB 3.0 HDD for additional storage, USB Hub for other devices, DVD Burner, etc. If Microsoft will put out a flagship phone with a USB 3.1 port, then the 3.1 port will have enough bandwidth to handle up to 3 external monitors plus a hub for attaching multiple USB 3.0 and USB 2 devices. Imagine that.

Yes, yes, I know. It is doubtful that the graphics in a phone could drive 3 monitors. We aren't talking about high-end gaming, yet. YET. In the future? I believe it will be the way the cookie crumbles within 10 years. Phones of today are more powerful than the world's most powerful supercomputers from 25 years ago, and more powerful than the most powerful desktop machines of 15 years ago. At this rate, phones will be more powerful than current desktops in 10-15 years. For 95% of users, the power of phones that will be out in the next 5 years will be more than enough of a desktop replacement.

In the future, to sell a flagship phone with Windows 10 (or whatever it will be) should consist of a phone, docking station, with external devices for monitor, keyboard, mouse (or other pointing device), and/or pen. Docking station can include DVD/Blu-Ray if necessary and HDD for external storage and backups, though I think it's all going toward the cloud for storage.

I for one, would love to have a phone that comes with a "laptop shell", where the phone slides into the side or back of the laptop shell, and the USB 3.1 port connects as the phone "clicks" into place inside the laptop. The phone would be the actual processor for the laptop, so now suddenly I am using the laptop with everything that is installed on the phone. That would be really cool. Suddenly, I'm doing my Skype calls on the laptop instead of the phone, or, actually I'm doing it on a laptop sized phone.

 

[Legoboyii]

Legoboyii understood what you meant yet had to make a big deal out of it.... Please go get laid kid

No thanks.
I'm not a morning person so I tend to be grumpy like in my comment earlier at around 6:30 in the morning.

"Kid" Funny. I wish but its been years since I felt like one.

 

[Legoboyii]

I don't assume it will be part of Windows 10 for phones. However, it is something I would love to see in a future flagship.

Windows 10 can have the capability to "change" the scaling according to the device it is currently being utilized by. Docking should send a signal to change the scaling accordingly, as well as to allow desktop apps.

Now, by docking, I would like to see it the way my laptop does it. I plug my laptop into a dock, close the lid, and use an external keyboard, mouse, and rather largish monitor. Gives me a full Desktop, complete with external USB 3.0 HDD for additional storage, USB Hub for other devices, DVD Burner, etc. If Microsoft will put out a flagship phone with a USB 3.1 port, then the 3.1 port will have enough bandwidth to handle up to 3 external monitors plus a hub for attaching multiple USB 3.0 and USB 2 devices. Imagine that.

Yes, yes, I know. It is doubtful that the graphics in a phone could drive 3 monitors. We aren't talking about high-end gaming, yet. YET. In the future? I believe it will be the way the cookie crumbles within 10 years. Phones of today are more powerful than the world's most powerful supercomputers from 25 years ago, and more powerful than the most powerful desktop machines of 15 years ago. At this rate, phones will be more powerful than current desktops in 10-15 years. For 95% of users, the power of phones that will be out in the next 5 years will be more than enough of a desktop replacement.

In the future, to sell a flagship phone with Windows 10 (or whatever it will be) should consist of a phone, docking station, with external devices for monitor, keyboard, mouse (or other pointing device), and/or pen. Docking station can include DVD/Blu-Ray if necessary and HDD for external storage and backups, though I think it's all going toward the cloud for storage.

I for one, would love to have a phone that comes with a "laptop shell", where the phone slides into the side or back of the laptop shell, and the USB 3.1 port connects as the phone "clicks" into place inside the laptop. The phone would be the actual processor for the laptop, so now suddenly I am using the laptop with everything that is installed on the phone. That would be really cool. Suddenly, I'm doing my Skype calls on the laptop instead of the phone, or, actually I'm doing it on a laptop sized phone.

I couldn't use the docking unless the screen was at least 6.5-7 inches minimum. But for that size I could just get a tablet. It's nice to have options sure. To me well... That particular feature would just be a space waster on my phone. If it wasn't a removable option I'd root the darn thing if I could to get it out.

 

[Ma Rio]

My thoughts, right off the bat.

-Yes we need flagship devices, anyone who says otherwise just doesn't get how the world works. It's funny that we're even talkin' about this one.
-Surface should stay for laptop-tablet hybrids. Lumia is already recognizable. Moving to any other name would make an even bigger mess.
-The numbering scheme should also stay because it works pretty good, and it's somehow unique. Needs fine-tuning though.
-Running Win32 apps on a phone will never happen, not atleast in the next 5 years I guarantee you that. Even if they could make it, they wouldnt.
-The new Intel processor is nothing special. Just another one in the mass. Qualcomm Snapdragon will still rule the market.

 

[Angry_Mushroom]

My thoughts, right off the bat.
-The new Intel processor is nothing special. Just another one in the mass. Qualcomm Snapdragon will still rule the market.

The new Intel processor is something special. You could say it's the first real entry in which Intel is trying to capture the market. Intel's R&D wing alone is worth more than it's nearest competition. Also Qualcomm lost a lot of ground when they ignored the rush to 64-bit. The announcement of the 820 just as the 810 is being rolled out mostly confirmed it.

Anyway... while I am a bit annoyed at the sheer number of models, doing away with most of them is not a great way to capture more market share. To use your car analogy. It's the reasons Ford has the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Taurus, and so on, and so forth. You can further break those models down to trim. Choices must be made available. All MS needs to do right now is work out, and redefine the numbers in a way that make sense. I wouldn't be surprised if the new 640 is the first of a new generation of devices.

 

[rhapdog]

I couldn't use the docking unless the screen was at least 6.5-7 inches minimum. But for that size I could just get a tablet. It's nice to have options sure. To me well... That particular feature would just be a space waster on my phone. If it wasn't a removable option I'd root the darn thing if I could to get it out.

You didn't read my post. The docking I was speaking of has nothing to do with the size of the phone. Part of the docking is to hook it to an external, LARGE Monitor. You can have a 4" phone for that, as long as the CPU and GPU can handle it.

 

[swedishdude]

I think the design of my SP2 would look awesome on a phone. It would look like Darth Vaders phone!

 

[TheCudder]

I couldn't use the docking unless the screen was at least 6.5-7 inches minimum. But for that size I could just get a tablet. It's nice to have options sure. To me well... That particular feature would just be a space waster on my phone. If it wasn't a removable option I'd root the darn thing if I could to get it out.

You didn't read my post. The docking I was speaking of has nothing to do with the size of the phone. Part of the docking is to hook it to an external, LARGE Monitor. You can have a 4" phone for that, as long as the CPU and GPU can handle it.

This. @Legoboy, we're talking about a docking station/port replicator similar to what a laptop would use to accept input from a mouse, keyboard, etc. and output to a large monitor . Not todays phone dock which essentially charges ands holds the device upright.

 

[Jorge Holguin]

I do believe that with the new Intel X3 chips and going forward this is very possible. MS is adding all the necessary features to the next W10 phone for example: New Universal Foldable Keyboard

 

[ohgood]

I do believe that with the new Intel X3 chips and going forward this is very possible. MS is adding all the necessary features to the next W10 phone for example: New Universal Foldable Keyboard

You mean, bring back pocket pc functionality ?

I don't think you're going to win over iphone users with a bluetooth (or other type) of keyboard. You simply HAVE to have the apps they use now, or they will not be switching. Android ? Same deal, you HAVE to have the apps.

Right now would be a good time to put the phone (hardware) dream into hibernation, and work on the SOFTWARE. It would be much easier to sell apps to the app centric iphone/android folks than to try and convince them to change devices, app stores, and services just for the sake of .... "We have one too!"

The 'flashings' you mentioned earlier, I don't think iphone folks care about. Cars are a lot less personal than phones. Currently Ford is ditching microsoft for.... blackberrry ? That's a telling sign of where microsoft needs to refocus their efforts:


​SOFTWARE

 

[HeyCori]

I don't assume it will be part of Windows 10 for phones. However, it is something I would love to see in a future flagship.

Windows 10 can have the capability to "change" the scaling according to the device it is currently being utilized by. Docking should send a signal to change the scaling accordingly, as well as to allow desktop apps.

Now, by docking, I would like to see it the way my laptop does it. I plug my laptop into a dock, close the lid, and use an external keyboard, mouse, and rather largish monitor. Gives me a full Desktop, complete with external USB 3.0 HDD for additional storage, USB Hub for other devices, DVD Burner, etc. If Microsoft will put out a flagship phone with a USB 3.1 port, then the 3.1 port will have enough bandwidth to handle up to 3 external monitors plus a hub for attaching multiple USB 3.0 and USB 2 devices. Imagine that.

Yes, yes, I know. It is doubtful that the graphics in a phone could drive 3 monitors. We aren't talking about high-end gaming, yet. YET. In the future? I believe it will be the way the cookie crumbles within 10 years.

I used to dual monitor my Surface 2 at 1080p on both screens and that was just using a Tegra 4. I would not be surprised if the upcoming Tegra/Snapdragon chips could power 3 monitors at 1080p each. Even the new Nvidia Shield with the Tegra X1 chip can run Crysis 3. I think phones could support 3 monitors now if an OEM was willing to put the hardware in there.

 

[Jorge Holguin]

You mean, bring back pocket pc functionality ?

I don't think you're going to win over iphone users with a bluetooth (or other type) of keyboard. You simply HAVE to have the apps they use now, or they will not be switching. Android ? Same deal, you HAVE to have the apps.

Right now would be a good time to put the phone (hardware) dream into hibernation, and work on the SOFTWARE. It would be much easier to sell apps to the app centric iphone/android folks than to try and convince them to change devices, app stores, and services just for the sake of .... "We have one too!"

The 'flashings' you mentioned earlier, I don't think iphone folks care about. Cars are a lot less personal than phones. Currently Ford is ditching microsoft for.... blackberrry ? That's a telling sign of where microsoft needs to refocus their efforts:


​SOFTWARE

PC pocket functionality? Yes, why not? W10 wild be great with pen input, just look at the N-pen on SP3. We can have that functionalities on the new devices. Btw MS purchased the company who build the N-pen. They are working in the software, is called Windows 10. Many of the folks that use iPhone will not change even if u pay their rent for a year. But MS bigger customer: Business, are not into apps they will go with the platform that is secure and give them all the flexibility they need n want and W10 is promising that and more. Can it deliver? Lets wait and see. Get the software right this time and come out with a head turning - kickass device and MS will gain many from the other two. And although Ford dropped MS sync for BlackBerry doesn't tell anything other than BlackBerry ask for less money.

 

[ohgood]

1 PC pocket functionality? Yes, why not?

2 W10 wild be great with pen input, just look at the N-pen on SP3. We can have that functionalities on the new devices. Btw MS purchased the company who build the N-pen.

3 They are working in the software, is called Windows 10.

4 Many of the folks that use iPhone will not change even if u pay their rent for a year. But MS bigger customer:

5 Business, are not into apps they will go with the platform that is secure and give them all the flexibility they need n want and W10 is promising that and more.

6 Can it deliver? Lets wait and see.

7 Get the software right this time and come out with a head turning - kickass device and MS will gain many from the other two.

8 And although Ford dropped MS sync for BlackBerry doesn't tell anything other than BlackBerry ask for less money.

1) because people don't want to plug their phones into a dock, they want their phone AND their desktop.

2) pen. stylus. maybe in 2002. not in 2015.

3) you've missed my point about software. microsoft needs to be making software (APPS) for android and iphone. awesome apps. apps that other companies without the 20+ years of software development that microsoft has, can't do. windows 10 is not the end all answer. it's a pacifier on a timeline, another "wait and see in six months". it will not change the current mobile phone market share.

4) they WILL buy apps though. this is the only place microsoft can gain mindshare in mobile right now. NOT hardware. the hardware race was over years ago. the time to start on SOFTWARE for those devices was two years ago, but microsoft didn't recognize the shift.

5) "wait and see what ______ does !" marketing campaign ?

6) see 5. 'wait and see' is not going to improve a marketshare, a mindshare, or a profit margin.

7) again, the HARDWARE race is dead. microsoft could release an octa core 16Gb ram device with a 20 day battery life today... and it would not put a dent in the current mobile marketshare. people have their phones. they have their apps. they have it already, and aren't changing for a shrunken desktop in their pocket. the backlash from windows 8 and it's emphasis on change for the sake of change (the UI) should be enough proof.

8) i doubt that. microsoft is known for making sweetheart deals to put their software ahead of the competitions. this deal happened because blackberry had a better product, and nothing to do with the pricetag. use ford sync. read the forums of other people's gripes with microsoft's UI package for ford. simple changes were not addressed, and it was slooooow. blackberry is known for light overhead, and better UI design. they won the contest because of a better interface.

or, just look at what Tesla has done with car touchscreens. that's a first gen UI. microsoft can't best a startup car company (tesla) even on it's first gen software push ? this is telling. microsoft should have been scrambling to put their software in that car's dash, and fords, and chevys, and the 'flash' brands you mentioned earlier. tomorrows lexus should have a full dash UI that microsoft designed and implemented.

but it won't. microsoft will be saying "give us six more months"