03-21-2015 11:35 AM
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  1. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Really doubt about that.....
    .

    There is no need to doubt about it. The information is public, just read the MSFT financial statements or an analysis about the industry.


    Xiaomi and One Plus don't invest in marketing and don't invest in distribution, they only do direct sales. Those are two big costs of the product, that's why they can sell with lower prices.
    Xiaomi in China has services, an app store, so they sell hardware under the cost and then recover the loss with that revenue.

    However, none of those companies make money, and obviously Microsoft can't operate like that.
    03-18-2015 08:25 AM
  2. gwinegarden's Avatar
    Even MS contributes to the problem, in Canada. In their store, they list only 5 phones, locked and unlocked.
    03-18-2015 08:27 AM
  3. Spectrum90's Avatar
    There is no perfect solution for everyone and WP is no better than any other. I'm all for being a fan but I like reality a bit. I'm a fan of tech have been for many years. I have nothing against WP I just don't like the blind allegiance.

    Do you have hard data to back that claim?
    03-18-2015 08:30 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Do you have hard data to back that claim?
    I've spent almost two years on this forum. Where would you like me to start? With the amount of L920s that were returned or the defects of my own phone? Would you like me to point to the hundreds of threads on here of people having issues with every single update that has occurred on WP? Maybe the hardware defects with every single WP? What would work for you?

    There's a great search function on the forum, and also every phone forum has a Bugs and Defects thread. I'm sure you'll be able to find that information by yourself.

    Since no company ever officially releases this information you'll have to either find it yourself or just agree that what I'm telling you is correct. Also being a realist I know from many years personal experience that all manufacturers have defects. It's the nature of mass production and part of the risk strategy in mass production. Since I was in manufacturing at one point in life I know this to be very true indeed.

    Anything else you'd like to ask?
    03-18-2015 08:55 AM
  5. Spectrum90's Avatar
    I've spent almost two years on this forum. Where would you like me to start? With the amount of L920s that were returned or the defects of my own phone? Would you like me to point to the hundreds of threads on here of people having issues with every single update that has occurred on WP? Maybe the hardware defects with every single WP? What would work for you?

    There's a great search function on the forum, and also every phone forum has a Bugs and Defects thread. I'm sure you'll be able to find that information by yourself.

    Since no company ever officially releases this information you'll have to either find it yourself or just agree that what I'm telling you is correct. Also being a realist I know from many years personal experience that all manufacturers have defects. It's the nature of mass production and part of the risk strategy in mass production. Since I was in manufacturing at one point in life I know this to be very true indeed.

    Anything else you'd like to ask?

    So, there is not hard data, and you only talk about your little anecdotes.
    03-18-2015 08:59 AM
  6. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    So, there is not hard data, and you only talk about your little anecdotes.
    What data would suit your seemingly critical mind? I'm not providing anecdotes, just the facts. Can't deal with the fact that WP is no better than anything else or something?
    03-18-2015 09:02 AM
  7. Spectrum90's Avatar
    What data would suit your seemingly critical mind? I'm not providing anecdotes, just the facts. Can't deal with the fact that WP is no better than anything else or something?

    I want data that backs your claim, that every platform has similar failure rates. Or that's just an idea that you like to have in your uncritical mind?
    03-18-2015 09:18 AM
  8. fatclue_98's Avatar
    So, there is not hard data, and you only talk about your little anecdotes.

    There is no hard data because there is no way to track honesty in surveys. Returns are not broken down by reason in a standardized fashion by OEMs so satisfaction surveys like JD Powers are all that's available to gauge the public's perception. To put it another way, I'd trust a mechanic's opinion over JD Powers when car shopping. Sometimes "anecdotal evidence" is all you can rely on.
    tgp, Laura Knotek, Jazmac and 1 others like this.
    03-18-2015 09:20 AM
  9. ajayden's Avatar
    I'm not going to get into a Android vs Windows argument with you.

    As the person above you stated, every OS has it's issues. No OS is perfect, regardless what Apple thinks. Some just do things better than others and are able to hide things better.

    Your link is also talking about an old issue and most people are shifting to version 5 last time I checked. It also appears, looking at the thread, that this seemed to be mostly a Samsung issue, unsurprisingly.

    Updates are one of those things where it goes great for some and horribly wrong for others. There's many many threads on WC with people experiencing all sorts of issues with updates. So it's not an Android only thing, happens to all mobile OS.

    There's also many apps that have issues on all OS and many hardware defects. There is no perfect solution for everyone and WP is no better than any other. I'm all for being a fan but I like reality a bit. I'm a fan of tech have been for many years. I have nothing against WP I just don't like the blind allegiance.
    Same here...I just answered to your comment...thats all.
    03-18-2015 12:00 PM
  10. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    There is no need to doubt about it. The information is public, just read the MSFT financial statements or an analysis about the industry.
    Do you have hard data to back that claim?

    The MSFT financial statements I can find not indicate the mobile phone department loss money from hardware selling, nor any prove like BOM cost to justify their devices not making good profit ratio.


    Xiaomi and One Plus don't invest in marketing and don't invest in distribution, they only do direct sales. Those are two big costs of the product, that's why they can sell with lower prices.
    Xiaomi in China has services, an app store, so they sell hardware under the cost and then recover the loss with that revenue.

    However, none of those companies make money, and obviously Microsoft can't operate like that.
    Why not? Direct sell model reduce the mess of carrier exclusive variant and take back the upgrade control under M$, improve both cost-control and UX.

    Talk about services and app store advantages xiaomi has in china is crazy, isn't M$ had control from the OS all the way to the hardware?

    If M$ has all these in hand yet still couldn't make money from the chain, it's their responsibility to find out where goes wrong.

    M$ can sell XBOX under the cost to fight PlayStation, I don't believe from those hardware M$ used in their devices they'll lose money by their price tag.
    03-18-2015 12:14 PM
  11. MikeSo's Avatar
    Wait a minute, yall saying MS started late, but didn't they have Windows Mobile?
    I think Windows 7 although very very fluid, just wasn't really good and was far too lacking in features for it to be a real contender.
    Even WP 8.0 was lacking in features, i think 8.1 was the first one that REALLY made a difference and the only OS update that i will gladly stay on regardless of the future updates. Currently i am happy with WP8.1 and wouldnt change a thing, but this is not to say im not excited for Win10 for phones.
    Absolutely. With WP8.1.1, they finally have an OS that is competitive in virtually all aspects.

    WP7 looked great, and was a pleasure to interact with - but it was so severely crippled that it was almost impossible for developers to do anything useful. You could not run GPS or data in the background, for example. An absolutely insane decision at a time when the competing OSs already had popular apps that specifically needed this. Microsoft was so concerned about performance on low-end devices that they crippled the functionality of their phones. That's a crazy priority when wanting market share, as evidenced by Android's disregard for performance in favor of features.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    03-18-2015 12:24 PM
  12. snowmutt's Avatar
    It is pointless to judge users on other platform. M$ and fans need to earn them instead of judging them.

    Back to the time when korea cars were considered as junks, were they win the market share by judging customers buying cars from other brands?
    I personally do not try to earn users for Windows Phones. I also never- NEVER- intended to come off as "judging" other users. I apologize if that is how that post came off. I happily recommend Android or iOS to users I think the OS is better suited for. But my point was this whole "app gap" and "app's not being updated to add features on other OS's" is a line that is repeated so often, users forget what is true as far as how far MS is behind and what isn't. I also want us to be honest and not "the grass is so much greener over there". Which may be true, but it also just may be true about that grass being in a cow pasture.

    As far as I am concerned, there are 3 major areas WP has to compete in if they want anything other a niche portion of the smartphone market:

    1) Social sites- the Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and other sharing your life sites have to be available- they are- and as good- they obviously are not.

    2) Gaming. No, not even close. But there has been serious improvement in this area, and universal apps WILL make a difference in this market. Especially with XBOX One development.

    3) Multimedia. Netflix, Hulu+, Amazon Prime, the other pay sites like HBO and all the music sites. They at least need to be available. Right now, they are not.

    But updating? I am not sure what we as users can do about that. We need these developers to care about these apps when they get here. I have no idea what to say about that problem. You would think once they develop the app, they would want it to work as it is a reflection of their business. I am truly lost on that.
    03-18-2015 02:31 PM
  13. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Do you have hard data to back that claim?

    The MSFT financial statements I can find not indicate the mobile phone department loss money from hardware selling, nor any prove like BOM cost to justify their devices not making good profit ratio.
    If you had problems understanding that, then try this:

    http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderd...ays-canaccord/


    Why not? Direct sell model reduce the mess of carrier exclusive variant and take back the upgrade control under M$, improve both cost-control and UX.

    Talk about services and app store advantages xiaomi has in china is crazy, isn't M$ had control from the OS all the way to the hardware?

    If M$ has all these in hand yet still couldn't make money from the chain, it's their responsibility to find out where goes wrong.

    M$ can sell XBOX under the cost to fight PlayStation, I don't believe from those hardware M$ used in their devices they'll lose money by their price tag.
    If Microsoft doesn't promote Windows Phone, who is going to do it? Windows Phone will die without the money that Microsoft is spending in marketing.

    Xiaomi also lose money in hardware, they are break even in their whole operation. Although, they sell a lot more than Microsoft with lower costs because Android is popular and the brand is cool, they don't need to incur in costs of marketing and distribution.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    03-18-2015 04:04 PM
  14. neo158's Avatar
    Do you have hard data to back that claim?

    The MSFT financial statements I can find not indicate the mobile phone department loss money from hardware selling, nor any prove like BOM cost to justify their devices not making good profit ratio.



    Why not? Direct sell model reduce the mess of carrier exclusive variant and take back the upgrade control under M$, improve both cost-control and UX.

    Talk about services and app store advantages xiaomi has in china is crazy, isn't M$ had control from the OS all the way to the hardware?

    If M$ has all these in hand yet still couldn't make money from the chain, it's their responsibility to find out where goes wrong.

    M$ can sell XBOX under the cost to fight PlayStation, I don't believe from those hardware M$ used in their devices they'll lose money by their price tag.
    The 90s called they told me to tell you to return the "M$"!!!
    03-18-2015 06:37 PM
  15. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I want data that backs your claim, that every platform has similar failure rates. Or that's just an idea that you like to have in your uncritical mind?
    I don't have an uncritical mind. Thanks.

    Not sure what planet you live on but the last time I checked every mass produced item has a failure rate. No company posts what those failure rates are. It is part of their risk factors as is losing things during shipping. These are facts. That's why there's insurance and warranties.

    Also, nowhere did I say they have similar rates of failure, just that all of them have failures and all have problems. I don't know what the numbers are. I never claimed that.

    I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you get your head around.
    sanjeet_deshwal likes this.
    03-21-2015 11:35 AM
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