1. Ryan Groom's Avatar
    Had an interesting conversation with my two nephews last night. One in High School and one in University. They both have Windows phones based on my recommendation. One with a 920 and one with a 1320.

    They love the phones, but the lack of apps everybody else has is getting them down. The absence of Snapchat is HUGE and at school they play some online 8 ball game that they cant participate in.

    It was interesting that they both said they are holding on to see what Windows 10 brings and hope the floodgate of apps opens then, especially for what they see are core apps.

    I know MS reads the forums now and wanted just to give some feedback from a non-developer non-fanboy kids.

    I rock a 1020 and love it, and use my phone for email, twitter, and taking pictures so I am sticking around for the long haul.

    Another one-off fact (I could be totally wrong) but as the majority of developers of the popular apps for iOS and Android are written by US companies where the market share is dismal. So we need the US market share so the US devs create more apps for WP. WP marketshare could be 55% worldwide but without the US having at least 15%, the app gap is going to be hard to bridge.

    Thanks for listening and looking forward to the next 24 months of Windows Phone.

    ~Ryan from Canada
    Trekkit TV
    03-26-2015 07:29 AM
  2. MikeX74's Avatar
    The market share issue has been flogged to hamburger at this point, but it will be an issue for a while, I think. The way I see it is, a couple of WP's ails in America are beyond Microsoft's control. They are:

    1. Carrier exclusives. They don't have carriers by the stones the way Apple and(to a lesser extent) Samsung do, so they have to accept whatever terms the carriers put forth. Occasionally, this means variants for each carrier, if carriers want it all.

    2. Apps. Let's face it. Despite what some people say, there is an "app gap," in quality, quantity, and apps that fit individual needs(banking, commerce, etc.). Developers and businesses have to WANT to build apps for WP, and if they don't, there's not much MS can do about that.

    Then there's the question of if an app is maintained or updated once it's available. Too often, the answer is not at all. Take Instagram, for example. It's been in Beta for how long? While the WP version languishes in Beta, they've not only built new apps for iOS, but they've built an app for an Apple product that doesn't even go on sale until next month. Tells you where their priorities are, doesn't it?

    Fortunately, one thing thoroughly in Microsoft's control is advertising. So the question becomes, why aren't they doing more advertising for phones in America? It's easy to say that Apple and Samsung outspend them, so why bother, but neither Apple nor Samsung got where they are without working for it. IF Microsoft wants a bigger and better presence in the American phone market, they'll have to put in the work. They have no issues advertising the XBox, or the Surface. When they do advertise their phones, they spend more time telling people why Apple products suck than they do telling people why their products are great.

    Until MS decides to put more weight behind its efforts in America, and craft a better advertising message, market share will remain low.
    03-26-2015 10:55 AM
  3. theefman's Avatar
    So the question becomes, why aren't they doing more advertising for phones in America? It's easy to say that Apple and Samsung outspend them, so why bother, but neither Apple nor Samsung got where they are without working for it. IF Microsoft wants a bigger and better presence in the American phone market, they'll have to put in the work. They have no issues advertising the XBox, or the Surface. When they do advertise their phones, they spend more time telling people why Apple products suck than they do telling people why their products are great.

    Until MS decides to put more weight behind its efforts in America, and craft a better advertising message, market share will remain low.
    This should be the WP team's morning prayer, everyday. 4+ years totally wasted, they really should all be sacked.
    03-26-2015 11:31 AM
  4. FindleInClev's Avatar
    I see this a lot- the narrative that somehow WP failed in the US because they didn't advertise or market here- I'm sorry but that's just really wrong. I remember lots of marketing campaigns - from the 'Really?' initial ads on TV to the 'wedding' ad for the 1020, advertising the great photo zooming, and then there was celebs like Cam Newton, with ads on every night on darn near every channel several times over. Hell there was the stunts they did like the giant live windows phone in freaking new York city with actual 'live' tiles.
    In reality none of it worked. And I think there were two main reasons for it:

    1. The young tech intellegencia simply decided that MS would never become successful, and worked to make sure that even people that didn't NEED all the crap on a super-blown up Android phone, who would have been perfect candidates for what WP has to offer, would never even see it. That started with the super nerds of the tech press that hated MS with a passion and worked itself down to the under-employed phonefanboys at the carrier stores. We know the stories- you have to almost FORCE the majority of sales people in carrier stores here to even buy one, let alone actually try to SELL it to someone who just walks in the door looking for a new phone.

    2. As smart phones became mainstream, Americans knew iOS, and then they got their alternative. They didn't want to have to decide on a 3rd choice. And lets be honest here- all these things share the vast majority of basic functionality, of any of the phones including WP. So there would need to be something extra special or disruptive to change that.

    So in the end, I throw out the notion that MS didn't market WP. I saw it, every night, in many different ways. Americans for a variety of reasons decided that there was no more room in the market, driven by the folks under reason '1' above. The only way WP comes back is if the universal app thing takes off and either Americans get bored of the 2 choices now and want something new (we can be fickle), or something changes fundamentally to shake up the basic 'touch' interface computing we have now.

    Right now the only thing in the near future that can do that is HoloLens.
    03-27-2015 03:33 PM
  5. Luuthian's Avatar
    I'd definitely agree with point #2 there more than anything. You can even expand on that simply by mentioning that each and every Android manufacturer released phones with such different Android skins that the market actually mad something like 5 or 7 choices before MS finally decided to join the fray. People didn't see Apple and Android, they saw Apple, Google, Samsung, HTC, Sony, LG, etc.

    It was simply too much. MS never really had an opportunity to find a voice inside that crowd, and they were playing catch up with apps too many years after the other devices had developed a bunch of core services. It's really a matter of bad timing more than anything.
    03-27-2015 10:34 PM
  6. MikeX74's Avatar
    I see this a lot- the narrative that somehow WP failed in the US because they didn't advertise or market here- I'm sorry but that's just really wrong. I remember lots of marketing campaigns - from the 'Really?' initial ads on TV to the 'wedding' ad for the 1020, advertising the great photo zooming, and then there was celebs like Cam Newton, with ads on every night on darn near every channel several times over. Hell there was the stunts they did like the giant live windows phone in freaking new York city with actual 'live' tiles.
    In reality none of it worked. And I think there were two main reasons for it:

    1. The young tech intellegencia simply decided that MS would never become successful, and worked to make sure that even people that didn't NEED all the crap on a super-blown up Android phone, who would have been perfect candidates for what WP has to offer, would never even see it. That started with the super nerds of the tech press that hated MS with a passion and worked itself down to the under-employed phonefanboys at the carrier stores. We know the stories- you have to almost FORCE the majority of sales people in carrier stores here to even buy one, let alone actually try to SELL it to someone who just walks in the door looking for a new phone.

    2. As smart phones became mainstream, Americans knew iOS, and then they got their alternative. They didn't want to have to decide on a 3rd choice. And lets be honest here- all these things share the vast majority of basic functionality, of any of the phones including WP. So there would need to be something extra special or disruptive to change that.

    So in the end, I throw out the notion that MS didn't market WP. I saw it, every night, in many different ways. Americans for a variety of reasons decided that there was no more room in the market, driven by the folks under reason '1' above. The only way WP comes back is if the universal app thing takes off and either Americans get bored of the 2 choices now and want something new (we can be fickle), or something changes fundamentally to shake up the basic 'touch' interface computing we have now.

    Right now the only thing in the near future that can do that is HoloLens.
    If you're talking about my post, I'm not suggesting that they didn't market at all. I'm simply suggesting that they could have, and should have done a lot more. They can't expect people to buy their devices if they aren't serious about letting the general public know about them.
    03-29-2015 01:16 PM
  7. gordonfink's Avatar
    The absence of Snapchat is HUGE and at school they play some online “8 ball game” that they can’t participate in.
    That 8-ball game is the bomb. I have 2 daughters in college, and we would play that when I had Android (they both have iphones). Snapchat is hard to live without for the younger crowd.

    At least Trivia Crack is available - the kids and I play that one remotely as well.

    Honestly, my kids really like my phone, but they wouldn't trade for it because of some of those apps you mentioned.
    03-29-2015 03:01 PM
  8. FindleInClev's Avatar
    We'll have to agree to disagree then, because I would say that there was sufficient marketing done but that given the combo of the nature of the phone market in the US and how people buy phones here, it was never going to work regardless. The kind of marketing you are talking about would have to make people walk into a phone store and ask specifically to look at WP. But you know that doesn't happen- the people that would be the best fit for WP go into a store, and say they need a phone, and then the salesperson drives the entire convo there. And because all of the stores are seas of black/white rectangles that do roughly the same things- they just go with what that person says. 'Oh you want the Idroid here'. And then they sign a two year contract and that's that.

    There is also a longer conversation about what I think was the REAL marketing fail - and that was 10 years ago, and the Mac/PC ads that destroyed the Windows brand with consumers as a whole, and MS didn't do anything to stop those lies until it was far too late...
    03-30-2015 05:36 AM
  9. gwinegarden's Avatar
    Many people, especially, it seems, Americans, have a desperate need to conform to the current trends. People are being shamed and bullied into having the same tech as their peers.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    03-30-2015 11:13 AM
  10. ivan sarmiento's Avatar
    MS dont need to spend huge in American Market.. Asian and European Market are much larger..

    And most of the time, Asian and European users don't use American Apps..

    Take for example, Android.. How did Android become huge? Did it start in America? No.. It started in Asia! Then in Europe.. Followed by America.. Americans are busy that time on their iCraps..
    03-30-2015 11:26 AM
  11. tangledW's Avatar
    If you're talking about my post, I'm not suggesting that they didn't market at all. I'm simply suggesting that they could have, and should have done a lot more. They can't expect people to buy their devices if they aren't serious about letting the general public know about them.
    I see more Cortana/Windows phone commercials on TV than Android & iPhone combined.
    03-31-2015 08:23 PM
  12. tangledW's Avatar
    MS dont need to spend huge in American Market.. Asian and European Market are much larger..

    And most of the time, Asian and European users don't use American Apps..

    Take for example, Android.. How did Android become huge? Did it start in America? No.. It started in Asia! Then in Europe.. Followed by America.. Americans are busy that time on their iCraps..
    Most of that may be true, but you can't underestimate American influence. Often, as America goes, the world goes.
    03-31-2015 08:27 PM
  13. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    I will say Marketing was definitely not up to snuff. I mean if I walk into a cellular store and asked about a particular Windows phone, then how many will actually know what makes it special? I can probably say 0-1 associates would know. The only people who ever bought a Windows phone bought it cause THEY themselves looked into it.

    Now marketing was indeed not the best, but once again what features do we have NOW that any other user doesn't have. What pulled us into WP in the first place? Why should an associate or one of us recommend WP? There really is little to no reason for anyone to jump off iOS or Android bandwagon and to join WP. They have more of a full fleshed out phone OS.

    I know my answer and reasoning, but I find it hard to convert someone over to the OS when apps and functionality aren't all there yet. As of right now there isn't a whole lot going for WP that another brand can't do. Hopefully W10 for phones will give everyone a reason to move over.
    03-31-2015 10:58 PM
  14. hotphil's Avatar
    What is the importance of US Market Share?
    ​Overrated.

    ​But sadly, all MS seems bothered about.
    03-31-2015 11:06 PM
  15. Christopher Senn1's Avatar
    I think MS advertisements that keep bashing Apple products is a necessity. I have tons of friends that use Apple and they bragggg about it. But they have zero idea what they are bragging about. They could be like "Siri call John....see isnt that cool? Apple is so amazing"

    So the US market is just buying iphones because its an apple product basically.

    I hope Windows Phone sales in the US pick up, especially for Win10. Kind of pathetic how windowscentral news of the day is how finally an app that has been around since 2011 is now available on WP8.1 or how India and China will yet again get another phone for under $100.

    I like my flagships thank you very much.
    04-01-2015 12:04 AM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I think MS advertisements that keep bashing Apple products is a necessity. I have tons of friends that use Apple and they bragggg about it. But they have zero idea what they are bragging about. They could be like "Siri call John....see isnt that cool? Apple is so amazing"

    So the US market is just buying iphones because its an apple product basically.

    I hope Windows Phone sales in the US pick up, especially for Win10. Kind of pathetic how windowscentral news of the day is how finally an app that has been around since 2011 is now available on WP8.1 or how India and China will yet again get another phone for under $100.

    I like my flagships thank you very much.
    I don't see bashing Apple products being at all beneficial. Microsoft needs to show what its own products are able to do.

    What prevents a person from choosing Android, rather than iOS or Windows if he/she sees an anti-Apple ad from Microsoft?
    04-01-2015 12:09 AM
  17. crystal_planet's Avatar
    I don't see bashing Apple products being at all beneficial. Microsoft needs to show what its own products are able to do.

    What prevents a person from choosing Android, rather than iOS or Windows if he/she sees an anti-Apple ad from Microsoft?
    And what can Microsoft products do? The same as the other guys - but with less apps. That's where the disconnect lies.

    Personally, I don't care for the popular apps (snapchat and the like) but what's bothering me is there aren't any apps that are in line for my career. I'm in office tech, and if I want to properly support my office's offerings I need an iPhone/Android. There is nothing for WP, nor anything in the pipe. So essentially I can't do my job properly with WP - and that hurts most of all.
    MikeX74 and etad putta like this.
    04-01-2015 07:23 AM
  18. MikeX74's Avatar
    I think MS advertisements that keep bashing Apple products is a necessity. I have tons of friends that use Apple and they bragggg about it. But they have zero idea what they are bragging about. They could be like "Siri call John....see isnt that cool? Apple is so amazing"

    So the US market is just buying iphones because its an apple product basically.

    I hope Windows Phone sales in the US pick up, especially for Win10. Kind of pathetic how windowscentral news of the day is how finally an app that has been around since 2011 is now available on WP8.1 or how India and China will yet again get another phone for under $100.

    I like my flagships thank you very much.
    The problems I see with the Apple-bashing ads are:

    1. that MS features the Apple products as much as they do their own. And...
    2. They hold Apple products up as the standards or measuring sticks in their respective categories. With that strategy, MS is basically saying to the buying public that Apple is the king of the mountain and they're trying to catch up to them, or be equal to them.

    Think of it this way. Even before the iPhone was the top-selling individual smartphone, was Apple mentioning competing products in commercials for it? No. They were too busy telling people what it could do and what they could do with it.
    04-03-2015 05:44 AM

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