04-15-2015 11:34 AM
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  1. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Folks, I think we're going to have to get used to the fact that our beloved OS is going to start looking like the competition. It's been 5 years and it hasn't caught on, with or without apps. It's not a defeatist attitude but sometimes you have to know when it's time for a change. I don't know what hamburgers are other than what they sell at McDonald's, but most of you seem to know and that's where Microsoft is looking. Forget the glitches associated with the TP and let's look at the UI. So they went with round thumbnails for contacts, so what? If you don't like it, stay with the People Legacy contacts.
    Yeah, I don't think legacy contacts is going to be there in the final build. That would actually be a nice thing of MS to do though. Have the option of using the 8.1 system apps instead of the new junk. Since there doesn't seem to be native system apps anymore that shouldn't be a lot of trouble. That would sure fix a lot of the complaints I have of W10. At this point just give me the new keyboard and the expanded action center and chuck the rest in the dumpster.
    04-14-2015 03:45 PM
  2. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    I read the review, and even better, all the comments. I agree with most of the sentiments. What I REALLY wonder from the comment section is how many of those people take the time to give MS the feedback on feature/function complaints? I sure hope the answer is "all of them."
    04-14-2015 04:09 PM
  3. Pranjal Rai's Avatar
    Give me more official apps(and don't take them down from the store either) and I'm willing to accept any crappy UI Microsoft has to offer in W10 for phones.
    After all it is the apps that make a smartphone, and even after getting all the gorgeous UI in the world, if apps are absent, then I don't know what our beloved OS will turn into.
    etad putta likes this.
    04-14-2015 04:34 PM
  4. SirThoreth's Avatar
    I read the review, and even better, all the comments. I agree with most of the sentiments. What I REALLY wonder from the comment section is how many of those people take the time to give MS the feedback on feature/function complaints? I sure hope the answer is "all of them."
    As someone who installed the Technical Preview to a 521, then bought a brand new Lumia 530 to try it on (due to issues with the 521), and who commented on the Ars Technica article (twice!), the answer is, yes, I did give Microsoft feedback on the current features.

    The reported goal is to have Release to Manufacturer for Windows 10 occur in June. The stated goal is to have Windows 10 PC ship this year, which would require the RTM to be no later than the end of the summer. Remember also there are really only two versions of Windows 10: the version with the full desktop that's meant for devices with screens 8" and larger, and the version without the desktop that's meant for devices with screens under 8", including Windows phones.

    It's mid-April, and the Technical Preview that Microsoft has released for phones has alpha-test software on it, has broken Office applications, has buggy and missing features. And Release to Manufacturers is only three months away? Really?

    As I said in the Ars comments, Windows 10 for your phone really makes it feel like Microsoft can no longer be bothered with phones, and is only continuing to bother with them because they already bought manufacturing from Nokia, and can't afford to appear to no longer be in the mobile business at all. By basically shoehorning in the desktop/tablet OS into the phone, there's little extra development cost. Their primary concern, at this point, is to make sure they keep their enterprise customers happy with their desktop OS, that the tablet features of the OS work with their Surface tablets. Phones and smaller tablets certainly seem to be a lesser concern.
    etad putta and Kevin Rush like this.
    04-14-2015 05:04 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    After all it is the apps that make a smartphone
    I beg to differ. When you really stop and analyze it, the iPhone is nothing but an app launcher.

    Let me explain before I get skewered.

    To me, the definition of a smartphone is what it was a decade ago when they became the new norm: the marriage of a cell phone and a PDA. The Palm Tungstens of the time allowed mobile pros to bang out emails, set up meetings in their calendars, edit Office documents, etc. Then you would sync all your tasks with your PC and send to whomever OR, use your phone as modem (PAM) and send from anywhere.Smartphones were developed to carry just one device.

    As a stand-alone device, the iPhone is useless without an internet connection. There's no file manager to store your info. There's no place to save your edited docs since the apps are internet-dependent. You can't even save your work to external storage because Apple has never seen fit to grace their devices with SD storage. Heck, you can't even do a bluetooth file transfer to a PC because Apple devices only do BT FTP with other iOS devices. Can't save your files via USB to your computer because iOS doesn't support USB Mass Storage. No can do with NFC either.

    So you see, apps aren't what defines a smartphone. Take away internet connectivity and what can you do with your device? With WP, a heck of a lot more than with iOS and about the same as Android.
    04-14-2015 05:17 PM
  6. hotphil's Avatar
    There's a lot of focus on how upgrades will be handled for W10. The mindset of gold, RTM, retail is going. All OS updates for all devices e.g. to Redstone, will be via Windows Update.
    So RTM deadlines and the subsequent lead times to release reduce - the first update a new device will get once unboxed is the latest OS build.
    Of course, MS have to have actually written the new OS first.
    Getting manufacturers onside could be tricky. They'll be shipping product with even less of an idea of the final user experience than they have now. But it might stop Superfish type situations. And Sony charging not to load machines up with crapware
    04-14-2015 05:24 PM
  7. hotphil's Avatar
    Can someone do the math for me? We have a phone that has a 3% share, and you change it's OS and only about 3% of that 3% like it. Where does that leave MS mobile?
    ...needing someone with more balanced/better analytical skills I guess.
    Jazmac and Kevin Rush like this.
    04-14-2015 05:25 PM
  8. fatclue_98's Avatar
    ...needing someone with more balanced/better analytical skills I guess.
    That's them Android calculators. Don't blame the users.
    Jazmac likes this.
    04-14-2015 05:33 PM
  9. vEEP pEEP's Avatar
    About sums it up:

    "One thing to make clear: this isn't ready for use on a primary device. As well as a list of known bugs including no functional airplane mode and the Office apps being inaccessible, I've found the apps to be quite crashy and a little weird in the few hours I've been using it. If you want to try it, use a phone that you don't need to actually use."
    04-14-2015 09:54 PM
  10. Jeff Merritt1's Avatar
    As someone who installed the Technical Preview to a 521, then bought a brand new Lumia 530 to try it on (due to issues with the 521), and who commented on the Ars Technica article (twice!), the answer is, yes, I did give Microsoft feedback on the current features.

    The reported goal is to have Release to Manufacturer for Windows 10 occur in June. The stated goal is to have Windows 10 PC ship this year, which would require the RTM to be no later than the end of the summer. Remember also there are really only two versions of Windows 10: the version with the full desktop that's meant for devices with screens 8" and larger, and the version without the desktop that's meant for devices with screens under 8", including Windows phones.

    It's mid-April, and the Technical Preview that Microsoft has released for phones has alpha-test software on it, has broken Office applications, has buggy and missing features. And Release to Manufacturers is only three months away? Really?

    As I said in the Ars comments, Windows 10 for your phone really makes it feel like Microsoft can no longer be bothered with phones, and is only continuing to bother with them because they already bought manufacturing from Nokia, and can't afford to appear to no longer be in the mobile business at all. By basically shoehorning in the desktop/tablet OS into the phone, there's little extra development cost. Their primary concern, at this point, is to make sure they keep their enterprise customers happy with their desktop OS, that the tablet features of the OS work with their Surface tablets. Phones and smaller tablets certainly seem to be a lesser concern.
    There is no way this can be only three months out. It has a looong way to go yet. Unless there is an internal tested build that is further along there is no way this going to happen in three months.
    04-14-2015 10:22 PM
  11. Blacklac's Avatar
    There is no way this can be only three months out. It has a looong way to go yet. Unless there is an internal tested build that is further along there is no way this going to happen in three months.
    Pretty sure Desktop Windows 10 is ~3 months out. Phone is late fall.
    Jeff Merritt1 and milkyway like this.
    04-14-2015 10:25 PM
  12. Roderick Aspiras's Avatar
    This is so TRUE!!!! Thank you your explanation is CRYSTAL CLEAR!

    I beg to differ. When you really stop and analyze it, the iPhone is nothing but an app launcher.

    Let me explain before I get skewered.

    To me, the definition of a smartphone is what it was a decade ago when they became the new norm: the marriage of a cell phone and a PDA. The Palm Tungstens of the time allowed mobile pros to bang out emails, set up meetings in their calendars, edit Office documents, etc. Then you would sync all your tasks with your PC and send to whomever OR, use your phone as modem (PAM) and send from anywhere.Smartphones were developed to carry just one device.

    As a stand-alone device, the iPhone is useless without an internet connection. There's no file manager to store your info. There's no place to save your edited docs since the apps are internet-dependent. You can't even save your work to external storage because Apple has never seen fit to grace their devices with SD storage. Heck, you can't even do a bluetooth file transfer to a PC because Apple devices only do BT FTP with other iOS devices. Can't save your files via USB to your computer because iOS doesn't support USB Mass Storage. No can do with NFC either.

    So you see, apps aren't what defines a smartphone. Take away internet connectivity and what can you do with your device? With WP, a heck of a lot more than with iOS and about the same as Android.
    920Walker likes this.
    04-14-2015 10:30 PM
  13. hotphil's Avatar
    There is no way this can be only three months out. It has a looong way to go yet. Unless there is an internal tested build that is further along there is no way this going to happen in three months.
    There's at least two internal Rings before anything hits Insider Fast. So yes, stuff inside MS is bound to be more advanced.
    Not sure where the 3 months timescale comes from. Most specific I've seen is "summer". And the delay of RTM-to-retail will be a lot shorter going forward.
    04-14-2015 10:30 PM
  14. Roderick Aspiras's Avatar
    This is my take.

    So my Lumia 925 got Windows 10 mobile today. Sadly this is my primary phone but what the heck, the thoughts of not opening a wrapped gift is unbearable and so Pandora's box was open.

    My initial impression is bad. I did not like how everything got so tiny. What were they thinking? Even the battery icon is so ugly. Why? I think this is bad for MS because initial impressions are lasting and I will be reverting to Windows phone 8.1 tonight.

    I know this is an unpolished software but how can you start ugly? Outlook is not for me I hope MS gives us choice and include the built-in mail app because it is awesome.

    Everything except the live tiles seem foreign to me and sadly it is bad because I feel I'm using the hybrid child of iOS and Android. I do hope that it gets better. I hope MS makes it right the first time this time!
    04-14-2015 10:39 PM
  15. oviedofreak82's Avatar
    I beg to differ. When you really stop and analyze it, the iPhone is nothing but an app launcher.

    Let me explain before I get skewered.

    To me, the definition of a smartphone is what it was a decade ago when they became the new norm: the marriage of a cell phone and a PDA. The Palm Tungstens of the time allowed mobile pros to bang out emails, set up meetings in their calendars, edit Office documents, etc. Then you would sync all your tasks with your PC and send to whomever OR, use your phone as modem (PAM) and send from anywhere.Smartphones were developed to carry just one device.

    As a stand-alone device, the iPhone is useless without an internet connection. There's no file manager to store your info. There's no place to save your edited docs since the apps are internet-dependent. You can't even save your work to external storage because Apple has never seen fit to grace their devices with SD storage. Heck, you can't even do a bluetooth file transfer to a PC because Apple devices only do BT FTP with other iOS devices. Can't save your files via USB to your computer because iOS doesn't support USB Mass Storage. No can do with NFC either.

    So you see, apps aren't what defines a smartphone. Take away internet connectivity and what can you do with your device? With WP, a heck of a lot more than with iOS and about the same as Android.
    The best definition of Apple ever! I have a friend of mine who always says that Apple isn't a real computer company LOL
    04-14-2015 11:00 PM
  16. Conan143's Avatar
    I have been wondering the build they showed us in March by Joe is more advanced and has all the features such as outlook,office....they should have released this build.Waitin for office universal apps to try out.
    04-14-2015 11:02 PM
  17. xandros9's Avatar
    I have been wondering the build they showed us in March by Joe is more advanced and has all the features such as outlook,office....they should have released this build.Waitin for office universal apps to try out.
    Think of it as an E3 demo of a video game.

    Might be a whole lot more broken than it may seem (Halo 2: if you strayed from the main route too far, the whole demo goes kaput, map ended up being scrapped.) so you saw the parts that worked well enough to demo and otherwise show off specific scripted things. But in reality, its going to be a lot less sunshine and rainbows.
    04-14-2015 11:07 PM
  18. hotphil's Avatar
    I have been wondering the build they showed us in March by Joe is more advanced and has all the features such as outlook,office....they should have released this build.Waitin for office universal apps to try out.
    It could have been a less-advanced build... features may have been jettisoned as the development continued, and may be re-included later on.
    04-14-2015 11:12 PM
  19. Michael Bull2's Avatar
    Compared to the previous build, Windows 10 Technical Preview for phones build 10051 changes a lot. It's clearly an operating system related to Windows Phone 8.1, but the details are all very different. It feels very early. I found many apps crashed or were glitchy, and the list of known problems includes some nasty gotchas such as Internet Sharing breaking Wi-Fi connectivity in some situations. With the exception of the new Maps app, a lot of the modifications feel like they're laying the ground work for progress, but they're not yet solid improvements over what we have today in Windows Phone 8.1. Outlook Mail, for example, has the nice swipe-to-delete and a much more capable message composer, but it gives up useful pinning and inbox filtering capabilities.

    There's also a great deal of interface inconsistency. While the new ribbons, for example, work well, the proliferation of top-mounted hamburger menus is a major regression compared to Windows Phone 8.1. Parts of the operating system do still have that Windows Phone thoughtfulness, but it's much less apparent, with many pieces feeling like warmed over generic Android apps. Microsoft has a lot of work ahead of it if it's to make this into a robust, reliable phone platform, and even more if it's to make it a phone platform that looks and feels coherent.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    04-15-2015 12:28 AM
  20. Jazmac's Avatar
    I beg to differ. When you really stop and analyze it, the iPhone is nothing but an app launcher.

    Let me explain before I get skewered.

    To me, the definition of a smartphone is what it was a decade ago when they became the new norm: the marriage of a cell phone and a PDA. The Palm Tungstens of the time allowed mobile pros to bang out emails, set up meetings in their calendars, edit Office documents, etc. Then you would sync all your tasks with your PC and send to whomever OR, use your phone as modem (PAM) and send from anywhere.Smartphones were developed to carry just one device.

    As a stand-alone device, the iPhone is useless without an internet connection. There's no file manager to store your info. There's no place to save your edited docs since the apps are internet-dependent. You can't even save your work to external storage because Apple has never seen fit to grace their devices with SD storage. Heck, you can't even do a bluetooth file transfer to a PC because Apple devices only do BT FTP with other iOS devices. Can't save your files via USB to your computer because iOS doesn't support USB Mass Storage. No can do with NFC either.

    So you see, apps aren't what defines a smartphone. Take away internet connectivity and what can you do with your device? With WP, a heck of a lot more than with iOS and about the same as Android.
    Much respect fatclue98. Much respect for your candor, sensitivity, spirit and most of all support for the platform and its ecosystem. My kind of tech.
    04-15-2015 12:32 AM
  21. Jazmac's Avatar
    Compared to the previous build, Windows 10 Technical Preview for phones build 10051 changes a lot. It's clearly an operating system related to Windows Phone 8.1, but the details are all very different. It feels very early. I found many apps crashed or were glitchy, and the list of known problems includes some nasty gotchas such as Internet Sharing breaking Wi-Fi connectivity in some situations. With the exception of the new Maps app, a lot of the modifications feel like they're laying the ground work for progress, but they're not yet solid improvements over what we have today in Windows Phone 8.1. Outlook Mail, for example, has the nice swipe-to-delete and a much more capable message composer, but it gives up useful pinning and inbox filtering capabilities.

    There's also a great deal of interface inconsistency. While the new ribbons, for example, work well, the proliferation of top-mounted hamburger menus is a major regression compared to Windows Phone 8.1. Parts of the operating system do still have that Windows Phone thoughtfulness, but it's much less apparent, with many pieces feeling like warmed over generic Android apps. Microsoft has a lot of work ahead of it if it's to make this into a robust, reliable phone platform, and even more if it's to make it a phone platform that looks and feels coherent.
    Seriously? So you thought with the exception of appearances, you thought this very unfinished, very unpolished, much publicized basic test program would only have a few "behavior" problems? .

    dangelo-barksdale.jpg
    hotphil and Guytronic like this.
    04-15-2015 12:45 AM
  22. etad putta's Avatar
    Actually sales are what defines a smartphone. Reality shows apple and android doing quite well regardless of whether they are "real" smartphones or not.
    04-15-2015 12:59 AM
  23. etad putta's Avatar
    That's them Android calculators. Don't blame the users.
    Took me a while but I did the math and the answer is ...I'll see all you boys and girls soon on the imore and android central forums.
    noersetiawan and prasath1234 like this.
    04-15-2015 01:13 AM
  24. Pranjal Rai's Avatar
    I beg to differ. When you really stop and analyze it, the iPhone is nothing but an app launcher.

    Let me explain before I get skewered.

    To me, the definition of a smartphone is what it was a decade ago when they became the new norm: the marriage of a cell phone and a PDA. The Palm Tungstens of the time allowed mobile pros to bang out emails, set up meetings in their calendars, edit Office documents, etc. Then you would sync all your tasks with your PC and send to whomever OR, use your phone as modem (PAM) and send from anywhere.Smartphones were developed to carry just one device.

    As a stand-alone device, the iPhone is useless without an internet connection. There's no file manager to store your info. There's no place to save your edited docs since the apps are internet-dependent. You can't even save your work to external storage because Apple has never seen fit to grace their devices with SD storage. Heck, you can't even do a bluetooth file transfer to a PC because Apple devices only do BT FTP with other iOS devices. Can't save your files via USB to your computer because iOS doesn't support USB Mass Storage. No can do with NFC either.

    So you see, apps aren't what defines a smartphone. Take away internet connectivity and what can you do with your device? With WP, a heck of a lot more than with iOS and about the same as Android.
    And still people whine when a known (or unknown) app gets taken down from our app store...if apps dont define a smart phone, then what is the point of app numbers. Usability. thats what a smartphone is all about. That's where the apps come in.
    I switched to WP in the beginning because of the unique UI. And I got used to it eventually. We all did. Now microsoft has decided to alter it. We can consider it as another revamp of the software. Although, its getting ugly now, at the same time. Metro is NOT coming back. And there is nothing you or me or anyone can do about it. No amount of feedback is changing the fact.
    And yes, iOS is nothing But an App launcher. But still it hasn't prevented people from flooding towards it. Apple not only charges you from the "Status symbol" point of view, but also for their app store. And you can't deny that their app store is Wayyyyyyyyy more superior to Android OR Windows.

    And Microsoft can't progress, if their app store starts draining, no matter how beautiful the UI of the OS is.

    (Don't think I'm a butthurt iOS fan. But if Microsoft dosn't adopt a new strategy, I'll eventually be turning to Apple, for good.)
    etad putta likes this.
    04-15-2015 02:31 AM
  25. prasath1234's Avatar
    Plz MS delay the launch of windows 10 for phones until you bring us less buggy non crashing os. Wp needs to show it is still smoothest with its new is.
    etad putta and noersetiawan like this.
    04-15-2015 06:16 AM
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