1. metroversal's Avatar
    Lately there has been much talk about the Hamburger Menu, even a former Microsoft employee tried to explain the situation. Even if Microsoft's points make totally sense, the User Experience issue persist.

    In this post I'd like to show you I think Windows 10 for phones should use the Hamburger Menu.
    For the first mockup I choose Outlook Mail, because I personally think that the user experience has gotten a lot worse (especially for Large screen devices).

    outlook_mail_inbox.png
    outlook_mail_swipe_delete.png
    outlook_mail_search.png
    outlook_mail_side_menu.png
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The idea is simple and is based these two points:
    1. App bar must be on the bottom (as in previous Windows Phone versions)
    2. Menu items should have a reverse order (frequent items on the bottom and less used ones on the top)


    As you can see the hamburger menu isn't the real problem but its position. The important thing is that the app feels 100% Windows Phone.

    What do you guys think? Do you agree or you prefer Microsoft's current implementation? Is there any other app that you think that needs some design help?
    Let me know in the comments! (or via twitter @metroversal)

    ---

    Take a look at my other Windows 10 project: link
    My OneDrive public Folder: http://1drv.ms/1ApKxek
    04-20-2015 01:05 PM
  2. Torcher Death's Avatar
    Lately there has been much talk about the Hamburger Menu, even a former Microsoft employee tried to explain the situation. Even if Microsoft's points make totally sense, the User Experience issue persist.

    In this post I'd like to show you I think Windows 10 for phones should use the Hamburger Menu.
    For the first mockup I choose Outlook Mail, because I personally think that the user experience has gotten a lot worse (especially for Large screen devices).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_inbox.png 
Views:	80 
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ID:	102765
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	102766
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_search.png 
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ID:	102767
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_side_menu.png 
Views:	107 
Size:	58.7 KB 
ID:	102768
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_side_menu.png 
Views:	107 
Size:	58.7 KB 
ID:	102768

    The idea is simple and is based these two points:
    1. App bar must be on the bottom (as in previous Windows Phone versions)
    2. Menu items should have a reverse order (frequent items on the bottom and less used ones on the top)


    As you can see the hamburger menu isn't the real problem but its position. The important thing is that the app feels 100% Windows Phone.

    What do you guys think? Do you agree or you prefer Microsoft's current implementation? Is there any other app that you think that needs some design help?
    Let me know in the comments! (or via twitter @metroversal)

    ---

    Take a look at my other Windows 10 project: link
    My OneDrive public Folder: http://1drv.ms/1ApKxek
    While I do like this idea, in case you saw that 2 min video, you would know that this is the exact opposite what they were crying about, CONSISTENCY ACROSS PLATFORMS. Meaning title bar at the top & the space beside it being used to put the hambugah menu. Same reason address bar in Spartan was put on top rather than the usual & easily accessible bottom.
    04-20-2015 01:45 PM
  3. werner6769's Avatar
    I am torn on this. The bottom is accessible but it clashes with the unified design across platforms. I also hit the search button sometimes when pressing the three dots at the bottom. I also have given my phone to people coming from other platforms and they immediately look for something up top. Most of them don't guess that you have to press the three dots at the bottom. Habit most likely.
    Nicholas Maguire likes this.
    04-20-2015 02:08 PM
  4. manicottiK's Avatar
    I understand the stated goal for "CONSISTENCY ACROSS PLATFORMS." However, there's "consistency" and there's "foolish consistency." The fact is that many of us would see the proposed screen, quick recognize the icons in a different location, and begin using it. Many less savvy users would not -- they would see things missing, get confused, and stop.

    So there are (at least) two things we don't know.
    1) Does Microsoft have data that shows what percentage of people get "stuck" or experience less productivity when things are moved around across platforms? (I bet that they do.)
    2) Would it be easy for developers to make this top/bottom reversal easy so that it could become a commonly implemented in-app setting, even for apps designed to span the range from Lumia to Xbox. (I think that we'll know around the time of Build.)
    metroversal and a5cent like this.
    04-20-2015 02:31 PM
  5. metroversal's Avatar
    I don't know why some of you think this isn't consistent. It's almost impossible to have one UI that works perfectly on every device (PCs, Phones, Tablets, etc).
    Windows 10 UI has to be smart enough to adapt to the device you are using without compromise. But this is just my humble opinion.

    solution.png
    Last edited by metroversal; 04-20-2015 at 06:24 PM.
    04-20-2015 03:14 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    IMHO the consistency-across-form-factors argument is just an excuse. It's one way MS rationalizes the decision to themselves, that is also easily enough explained to the non-technical masses. The consistency argument states that if navigation is on top on the tablet UI, then it should also be on top on the phone UI. If that was so important, then having commands consistently on the bottom should be of equal importance. That's just not the case. On the tablet, Office mobile has a ribbon with commands at the top, but on a smartphone those same commands are at the bottom, tucked away in the bottom app bar menu. Why the double standard?

    IMHO the entire consistency-across-form-factors argument is counterproductive, because consistency across form-factors should take a back seat in comparison to making each UI work as good as it possibly can on different display sizes. As long as the iconography, ordering of commands and the terminology are consistent, people will easily learn that whatever is in a ribbon on a tablet can always be found in the bottom app bar on a smartphone. If MS trusts users to deal with that type of minimal "inconsistency" in the command-scenario, it's hypocritical to say users can't deal with that type of inconsistency in the navigation-scenario. I'm calling BS. Far too many are falling for this.

    The other reason, portability, makes for a far more believable argument, provided MS has tech up their sleeves which allows for single-source cross-platform development (simultaneously targeting iOS / Android and WP). Without that kind of tech it's a waste of time, but if something like that exists then I'd begrudgingly understand the decision. Despite having a lot more merit, it's not an argument that is easily explained to the non-technical masses, as it's about software development and isn't directly related to anything end users care about. It's no wonder few people are latching on to this, despite it being the bigger part of the video made by the ex-Microsoft employee. If such single-source cross-platform technology exists, and Google and Apple tolerate it, it could go a long way towards helping new apps get onto WP at the same time and with the same feature set as on iOS and Android. The downside is that by doing so, MS is tying their own UI to what is available on iOS and Android, thereby completely sacrificing their own ability to innovate. I'm not convinced that's the way to go. I want more innovation from MS, not an OS that falls in line behind the competition to become ever more of a me-too OS. Although I don't like this argument, I could be convinced that it's the lesser of two evils. Until I hear MS say such technology exists however, I'll stick to my position that it's a bad idea.
    04-20-2015 03:43 PM
  7. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    Isn't the hamburger menu kind of like a start button? Isn't the start button in the BOTTOM LEFT corner? I arrest my case your honor.
    04-20-2015 04:15 PM
  8. manicottiK's Avatar
    We -- those of us posting here, particularly on issues of UI and UX -- are not normal. (We're exceptional! ;) The general public isn't as interested in these things as we are and they likely have a more normal distribution across the different types of learning styles than we do. Given that as a start...

    When I hear people say "I'm a visual learner" my brain processes "I can't handle concepts." That's not fair to them, but I bet that most of the folks saying that they are visual learners have never been formally evaluated and classified by someone in the field. What I think such people really mean is "I don't care enough about the topic being discussed to think about it or commit it to memory." I accept that alternate explanation because I know that I think about and care about lots of things that others don't.

    The end result is that most people don't care enough to know that the three line thing is called a hamburger, why it's called a hamburger, that there are studies of its impact on usability, the results of those studies, or anything else. To them, it's a standard picture in a standard place that they tap to get to things. All other thought about it is too deep -- not for their brain, but for their interest level. What we see as a "concept" of "additional navigational of operations choices" is simply a specific image in a specific place to them.

    Moving the icon somewhere else because it makes more sense elsewhere on a different form factor presumes that the users knew that "three line thing" was movable at all and that there were actual reasons to move it. Arguments that we make about how people hold different sized devices in different ways, effectiveness of various placement options, and other practical things that those users could benefit from are simply not interesting enough to them to warrant processing the "concept." Top left always is good enough for them like 128 Kbps MP3s are good enough for non-audiophiles or SDTV is for my parents.

    So, I think that Microsoft is correct in making the changes to increase the market even though they will harm users. For most users, that harm takes the form of making them simply equally productive to their iOS and Android brethren rather than making them more productive. Sadly, for many of us here in WindowsCentral.com, it both reduces our productivity and raises our ire because we knew that better, adaptive, productive interfaces are possible, if developers will put in the extra effort to consider user needs. (Prediction: they won't.)

    Now I've made me sad.
    a5cent likes this.
    04-20-2015 04:44 PM
  9. manicottiK's Avatar
    Isn't the start button in the BOTTOM LEFT corner? I arrest my case your honor.
    Well, first, you should "rest" your case rather than arresting it. ;)

    Second, it's at the bottom center on my Windows Phone -- did I get a counterfeit phone? (Also, it's at the top left on my Surface because I put my task bar on the left side to maximize usable vertical pixels.)
    04-20-2015 04:46 PM
  10. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    04-21-2015 01:03 AM
  11. GrandGerminator's Avatar
    If they want to unify W10 and W10 for phones they could put the hamburger menu at bottom left in W10 for PC too !
    04-21-2015 07:20 AM
  12. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    It should just be an option of putting the hamburger/ellipses where you want it. Hey looky there! On my Windows 7 machine right now I can put the task bar at the bottom, the top, or to the left or right! Choice!! What a concept!
    04-21-2015 09:55 AM
  13. envio's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    #saynotohamburgerUI
    04-21-2015 11:06 AM
  14. Spectrum90's Avatar
    With HoloLens we'll be able to add the hamburger menu to real world objects.
    04-21-2015 01:29 PM
  15. Don Geronimo's Avatar
    With HoloLens we'll be able to add the hamburger menu to real world objects.
    Wouldn't that be confusing? What if you were at a McDonald's and saw hamburgers everywhere? Which one would you interact with?

    My gripe with movable elements elements as someone suggested is if UX chrome can be moved/customized on a per-user basis, then the power of UX guidelines diminish, and there can be no consistency; it'll look different based on how the app default is, or because the user changed it themselves.

    I know in my personal experience using Windows 10 TP on my daily drivers I'm already intuitively expecting certain things in the upper left, and certain things on the bottom, as I move from device to device. If I had to guess each time where something would be I'd just get frustrated.

    I get that people find it frustrating, but I'm already intuitively hooked in my workflow to expect things where Microsoft has them in the (albeit rough) context of One Windows.
    04-21-2015 01:38 PM
  16. Dusan Randj's Avatar
    This mockup is what should be an ok balance between user experience and consistency, or whatever they call it. Just put the hamburger at the bottom.
    they wan't consistency, that is ok, but what is ok for PC, doesn't mean it's good for phones. Windows 8 is great example of that, great UI for phones and tablets failed on PCs. Now they are doing same mistake, just in opposite way,ruining phone UI with PCs part...
    metroversal likes this.
    04-21-2015 04:20 PM
  17. Jupast's Avatar
    What might be handy, in some cases at least, would be if you could *grab* that Bar and just drag it to the bottom or the top, depending on preference.

    Or just include that as an option. It's when the User isn't given much choice that the tears start flowing.
    metroversal likes this.
    04-21-2015 07:47 PM
  18. DalekSnare's Avatar
    This is an important point. The real issue has been ignored because people are complaining about the wrong thing. The hamburger button is fine and sometimes necessary. However, it doesn't need to be at the top. The reason given in the recent AMA was that people needed to see the title of their document easily. I don't understand why the hamburger button needs to be in the same place as the title menu, and if it does, why the UI is sacrificing ergonomics for everyone to address an issue with some imagined users with extreme short term memory loss who can't remember what document they are currently typing in.
    metroversal likes this.
    04-21-2015 08:45 PM
  19. stephen_az's Avatar
    Lately there has been much talk about the Hamburger Menu, even a former Microsoft employee tried to explain the situation. Even if Microsoft's points make totally sense, the User Experience issue persist.

    In this post I'd like to show you I think Windows 10 for phones should use the Hamburger Menu.
    For the first mockup I choose Outlook Mail, because I personally think that the user experience has gotten a lot worse (especially for Large screen devices).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_inbox.png 
Views:	80 
Size:	117.4 KB 
ID:	102765
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_swipe_delete.png 
Views:	76 
Size:	118.1 KB 
ID:	102766
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_search.png 
Views:	76 
Size:	132.5 KB 
ID:	102767
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_side_menu.png 
Views:	107 
Size:	58.7 KB 
ID:	102768
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outlook_mail_side_menu.png 
Views:	107 
Size:	58.7 KB 
ID:	102768

    The idea is simple and is based these two points:
    1. App bar must be on the bottom (as in previous Windows Phone versions)
    2. Menu items should have a reverse order (frequent items on the bottom and less used ones on the top)


    As you can see the hamburger menu isn't the real problem but its position. The important thing is that the app feels 100% Windows Phone.

    What do you guys think? Do you agree or you prefer Microsoft's current implementation? Is there any other app that you think that needs some design help?
    Let me know in the comments! (or via twitter @metroversal)

    ---

    Take a look at my other Windows 10 project: link
    My OneDrive public Folder: http://1drv.ms/1ApKxek
    Yet more people with too much time on their hands and a belief they know more than the design team and those managing user studies. How many times does it need to be explained that your preference does not define user preference? It is just what you want. Did people even read the explanation a few days ago? Alternatively, have people bothered to pay attention to the fact that variations in UI are a hindrance to app developers? How about the fact it is a roadblock to universal app development simply within windows (or should your desktop look this silly)?

    The only "must" in the equation is people need to accept they must learn they know less than they think and that is by informing and educating oneself that one grows. Actually another one is that people must learn the world does not revolve around them and they do not always get what they want. Alternatively, Microsoft must listen to the minority of its small user base; keep things as they are; and join the ranks of WebOS, Windows Mobile, and Windows Phone 7 even sooner than BB10.
    04-21-2015 10:02 PM
  20. Spectrum90's Avatar
    The ex-Microsoft designer said they want navigation at the top.
    In general, the motivation for the changes is that people struggle with WP, the user experience is poor. I've seen it myself too, people seem more comfortable with the other platforms, even first time smartphone users.
    04-22-2015 04:59 AM
  21. jmshub's Avatar
    With HoloLens we'll be able to add the hamburger menu to real world objects.
    Just be careful not to eat the hamburger menu!
    04-22-2015 12:14 PM

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