No need to wait for Windows 10 anymore

[djeire84]

I actually wandered into encyclopedia Britannica by accident on this forum topic lol

 

[TechFreak1]

Lets put some prospective about the points you have made. Hopefully this will stop you from perpetuating such....drivel :winktongue::grincry:.

...as a revolution for mobile devices at least for me.

Being owner of a Lumia 1520 (which is supposed to bring the best experience with WP) for almost a year and really really really giving WP a try I switch back to my good old Nexus 4. The way MS is heading with Windows 10 does not bring improvement to the flaws that bother most about the current WP.

Hmm, really?

So a over hauled outlook app doesn't address a flaw in Windows Phone 8.x?
Where one can neither attach office documents but share a single office document via the office hub. Or multiple documents via a file picker, however such practises are just wrong - sharing secure links are best practice. This eliminates the issue of multiple file versions, emails with incorrect subject headers, badly scanned files that are not compressed but at an attrocious dpi level just to get the darn thing attached or just flung into the scanner with staples attached etc etc.

So the ability to reply to text messages in line without leaving what your doing, is not an improvement?

So the addition of being able to move the keyboard & snap to either left or right hand side of the screen - not an improvement?

So the incorporation of full office is not a benefit?

So the redesign of the setting screen doesn't address the gripe of most users?

I could go on forever.

First to mention is the retarded way of "multitasking" in combination with the push service. While the "resuming" message can be considered as a minor annoyance this WP "feature" sets some serious limitations for creators of apps. For example no VoIP softphone app is able to receive calls unless you have the phone unlocked and the app running in the foreground - very useful, lol. Oh right, the creator of the app supposed to run a cloud service to make use of push notifications. Saving battery life does not justify such drastic limitations.

Hmm retarded way of multi tasking, if your talking about the current system.

It is far from retarded, what was retarded was the multi tasking in IOS until IOS 7.

I admit how the back stack was implemented in Windows Phone prior to implementation of swipe down to close / x button was just....:angry:.

In regards to the "resuming screen" that is down to poor code optimisation and you stated that "VOIP apps need to run in the foreground", care to give examples?

It is one thing to state something as a fact with evidence and another thing entirely when no evidence is given to support such a statement.

A developer does not need to run their own cloud services to support push notifications, an indie dev can tie into Microsoft Azure and enable such notifications via a IAP. For mobile app developers with deep pockets the cost is just standard business practice (of course games don't really need such notifications).

Also It is not MS's job to implement a background agent for a developer, if the developer is lazy than there is no fix for that.

Also there are lot of API's missing, even for basic things like getting the current signal strength or the amount of used data.

What are you referring to? Wi Fi or Cellular?

Again - be specific.

Apps operate in a secure container so they don't have access to functions / areas of the phones they have no business in touching.

Users request support for OpenVPN as well for many years in WP already which is ignored completely.

That is most likely coming with Windows 10, why?

Because they are trying get back into the enterprise market, which they abandoned trying to emulate apple with the consumer centric Wp7. Despite the fact Windows Mobile 6.x had way more "pull" in the enterprise segment. Also Windows 10 has been designed to win back the enterprise as Windows 8 was far too alien and had a "perceived steep" learning curve. The additional benefit it brings back the crowd who stayed away from 8 and stuck to Windows 7 / XP.

The recently announced attempts to make porting apps from Android or iOS to Windows 10 easier is just a marketing gag and will cause a hype only among some tech websites but ignored by app creators.
Everybody who had a piece of code that need to be ported from one platform to another knows it is not that easy as MS claims it is by simply uploading your .apk to a website for compatibility check and change a few lines of code - there you go! Of course users will now blame the app creators even more than before if they not release their apps for Windows since now it is "so easy". And those programmers who have already released apps for WP won't care about this anyway, tho these apps always lack a lot of features compared to their Android or iOS counterpart, often enough due to limitations of the operating system.

This even counts, ironically, for the OneDrive app.
A substantial solution for this ongoing dilemma would have been the native support of android apps, like Blackberry did. But that was just a wish and ignored as well.

I'm curious have you used the tools??

Or just spewing what you have read on the internet, as I really doubt you have used them.

Yes, the Microsoft apps are better on other platforms which may appear as shock to you. But it is just business, pure & simple - as this way they ensure users are not using competing services. The catch 22 is, windows phone users felt like left in the dark - many of us wanted App Parity (myself included). However there are insane amount of changes that are coming to phones with Windows 10 - it is astonishing - so I am happy to wait. [Just look at the ShenZen WinHec documentation].

Also Blackberry used an older version of Android for emulation (it is now better than before but the damage has been done - just like the silliness with the blackberry playbook) and like with anything emulated you are going to need a lot of resources for a smooth experience.

Pretty disappointing is also the lineup of Phones: besides the confusing numbering scheme of the Lumia devices it has also been an ongoing question (and demand) here in the forums for a new flagship phone since the 1520 disappeared in stores for a few months already without even the announcement of a successor.

A flagship is coming which has been reiterated time & time again.

But Some just don't get it, if you had a choice in releasing a flagship product that did nothing new or was different from the competition or didn't operate at it's full potential without an update. With thanks to US carriers may take an eternity to get pushed out. Would you release it?

The slow rollout of firmwares (that spreads over months) and OS updates (even for the TP) is pretty disappointing and unprofessional as well in combination with their missed timelines - delays delays delays.

No wonder Belfiore had to state the release of Win 10 for phones will be delayed and the desktop version to improve continously ( = permanent construction site).

Your ignorance here sadly speaks volumes, the delays are down to carrier testing & approval.

The technical preview for phones, was launched near on 6 months after the desktop preview. Designing, implementing & reiterating an o/s is not as simple as pressing a button or peeling an orange.

Windows 10 for Phones is not delayed, it is called a staggered release as a) it keeps them in the news cycle thereby attracting mind share b) reduces workload, they aren't machines but people like everyone else.

Sure, I would love them release everything in one full sweep but that is not realistic let alone practical; as the scale of task would be monstrous. Let me put it into prospective {not an exhaustive list}:

• Making sure you have enough supply for demand
• Staff trained & clued up for sale day
• Your distribution partners primed for launch so they can gear up their staff, if there are any changes in refund policies that they all are aware of such changes.
• Marketing events going live simultaneously with the unveil such as on the day promotions, if they are region specific, market or country specific etc etc

In regards to desktop windows being a construction site, remind me has Google ever finished those betas? :winktongue:

They (Microsoft) have said that Windows will always be updated and to think of it as Windows as Service (not a subscription service). Never the less no software is final until it has been completely EOLed.

Same disappointment is the way Microsoft deals with hardware issues certain phones have: the 1520 was heavily plagued by touchscreen problems caused by hardware design faults as often enough you reading of users who had their display units replaced multiple times without improving it much.
Story continues with the Lumia 535 being released last year and every firmware update claims to fix the touchscreen issues while for the majority of users it doesn't. At least Microsoft now acknowledged the problem so there seems to be at least a learning curve.

You haven't been using Windows Phone long enough have you?

The 1520 was launched prior to the Nokia D & S division acquisition as such Microsoft can not do much about it. Then the re-org came and that would have put quite a lot of stuff on the back burner.

The touch screen issue on the 535 was down to reduction of cost for production. In order to hit low price points with a high spec, lower quality parts had to be used. Of course they could have ordered everything in bulk to reduce cost but means you have dead stock if you do not sell along with other fiscal ramifications.

About the unique platform for all devices Windows 10 claims to be I wonder what will happen to Windows RT?
No Insider App, no leaking screenshots of builds, no news or timelines except the vague, unpopular statement that it will later only receive "some" features of Windows 10. This platform seems abandoned already. Why does this remind me of WP 7?

RT is not dead, RT really stands for RUN TIME and in this context your referring to O/S that ran on a limited number of tablets. The Arm version of Windows is not dead either, just the Surface 2, Surface 1, Lumia 2520 along with others won't be progressing.

As callous as it sounds - it is easier to have an unified install base as opposed to supporting legacy especially at a time when coding hours are extremely priceless.

Overall I am pretty disappointed with development regarding mobile platforms like smartphone and tablet. It appears much more like a playground for MS to try out some new concepts than a solid platform for daily use especially in comparison with its competitors.
For desktop things are different and also with Windows 10 I feel being on the right track and for sure will upgrade to Windows 10, no doubt.

If your looking for a playground check out Microsoft research.

Solid platform?

So remaining stagnant and not innovating can be seen as a solid platform, interesting /s.

Remind us again how big is the install base of Windows compared to say OSX or Chrome O/S?

In regards to Windows 10 being on the right track, that is subjective as some love how Windows 8 worked and loath the changes in 10. Some are resistant to change whereas others are not so.

It is just like Marmite, you either love it or hate.

I for agree, that Windows 10 is on the right track and as whole, the way forward. But there are things that I do not agree with and have given feedback via the feedback app.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Can someone do a one-line summary for me?

He went back to Android, Nexus 4, MS screwed up WP, Windows 10 sucks, I think.

Even if Windows 10 for Phones is a total visual and usability train wreck I don't see myself going back to Android anytime soon. Sticking with 8.1 seems like a better option.

 

[prasath1234]

Ya me too am super happy with windows phone 8.1.I will use my browser to get information as opposed to apps.

 

[Sebastianx]

No need to whine it up here if you gonna switch back to Android then please do so.

 

[Allen Rhodes]

So many opinions here. Especially anti WP ones. Which is ironic being that ita a WP board. I wonder if I smell an agenda or just stinky BS? No need for wannabe bloggers clogging these forums. TAke the OP and give it to MacRumors. "WP is done", lmao. All this time its been "app gap" now its security and the rest. Run away back to snicker doodle or milky way, whatever professional name they give that virus factory of a phone OS, im happy with the OS I have.

 

[atharva117]

The point you should be focusing on that TP runs on same core as PC, plus Microsoft have lots in their pockets for PC. They just showed it in Build, WinHEC, Ignite. PC build is almost finished. As we consider phone build for Windows 10, it isn't. Well, bunch of APIs are non essential. Few should be excluded from the ecosystem to provide better security. Porting if Android and iOS apps are optimum solution, its like if you want to reach on 100th floor they take you halfway already, so rather than starting from scratch you actually have a beginning.

 

[seb_r]

Yeah i do feel The same way! We used to think it is The developers fault but it is the OS that is limited, and although I enjoy a UI refresh, that alone is not enough Microsoft!

My words!

I agree with you, unless they learn from what Android apps actually can do and fixed the OS limitation, it won't change anything.

+1

What apps can't be ported to WP because of APIs limitations?

All apps can. But the question is how big is the lack of functionality compared to other OS

On top of that Microsoft said during the first keynote it was building tons of APIs in preparation for windows 10.

You got an overview of these?

A good OS is one that does not compromise the security of the user and yet delivers a good experience. And windows phone delivers that experience without compromising the users security.

Do you need that kind of amount of security? I wonder. And obviously that is not the priority for most consumers, see the market share WP has.

At build they answer most questions with 'no', 'It's still in early stage', and 'We'll provide the most optimum path for that', but almost no straight 'yes' answer.

Like on most things: no clear statement.

My Lumia 930 does everything I need it to right now.

Good for you...

I could go on forever.

Me too, with features / functions missing.

In regards to the "resuming screen" that is down to poor code optimisation and you stated that "VOIP apps need to run in the foreground", care to give examples?

Yeah, as usual developers fault, scnr Well actually I refer to the way apps being treated by theOS, not the resuming. Doesn't matter which app as it is limitation by system but if you wanna have names: zoiper.

Also It is not MS's job to implement a background agent for a developer, if the developer is lazy than there is no fix for that.

Yeah...damn developers

What are you referring to? Wi Fi or Cellular?

Signal strength, traffic / data used, distinguish between H and H+ (all for cellular). I could go on forever...

Apps operate in a secure container so they don't have access to functions / areas of the phones they have no business in touching.

Why not simply allow the user at the time of installation what the app can actually access and what not?!

That is most likely coming with Windows 10, why?

Link?

Also Blackberry used an older version of Android for emulation (it is now better than before but the damage has been done - just like the silliness with the blackberry playbook) and like with anything emulated you are going to need a lot of resources for a smooth experience.

For games not an option, that's true. For "normal" apps things are different.

A flagship is coming which has been reiterated time & time again.

No official statement or announcement while the 1520 disappeared in stores for months and the fanboys craving for a new flagship.

Your ignorance here sadly speaks volumes, the delays are down to carrier testing & approval.

Your's too. Many carriers pushed out Updates to their phones even before the CV's got it. I experienced with my 1520 Denim.

Windows 10 for Phones is not delayed, it is called a staggered release as a) it keeps them in the news cycle thereby attracting mind share b) reduces workload, they aren't machines but people like everyone else.

They claim a unique user experience with Windows 10. That simply starts by the availabilty on all devices at the same time. That won't come true anyways since Windows RT won't get Windows 10. They focus on desktop, leaving the mobile-devices-playground behind.

They (Microsoft) have said that Windows will always be updated and to think of it as Windows as Service (not a subscription service). Never the less no software is final until it has been completely EOLed.

An update is intended to fix bugs but not add new functions in general etc. Well, nice way to cover it in candy that you don't get your things done on time.

The 1520 was launched prior to the Nokia D & S division acquisition as such Microsoft can not do much about it. Then the re-org came and that would have put quite a lot of stuff on the back burner.

You realize you find an excuse for ANYTHING MS does? Do you work for them? lol

The touch screen issue on the 535 was down to reduction of cost for production.

Any evidence?

In order to hit low price points with a high spec, lower quality parts had to be used.

Not neccessarily. Any proof for that theory? Well then for the 1520 must have been used the same cheap parts lol. Actually it has turned out that the reason for this behavior on the 1520 is board flexing, EMI and improper grounding. That also explains why replacing the display unit is not always a cure.

The Arm version of Windows is not dead either, just the Surface 2, Surface 1, Lumia 2520 along with others won't be progressing.

No matter what you call it, they abandon it.

As callous as it sounds - it is easier to have an unified install base as opposed to supporting legacy especially at a time when coding hours are extremely priceless.

Explain to those people who spent much on these devices or being early adopters. Just because you not have one of these devices you don't care. Pretty ignorant.

Even if Windows 10 for Phones is a total visual and usability train wreck I don't see myself going back to Android anytime soon. Sticking with 8.1 seems like a better option.

= ******

Ya me too am super happy with windows phone 8.1 I will use my browser to get information as opposed to apps.

Good for you, nobody force you to update. Obviously you not doing much if you only need a browser on your phone and no Apps.

 

[David_da_Silva]

Are you the Snapchat CEO? Cause you kinda are looking like it!

 

[Iain_S]

all your answers to that persons remarks are just complete bull****, sorry if that offends you but clearly you have no idea in general what you are talking about, regardless if its about wp or not.

 

[TechFreak1]

Me too, with features / functions missing.

Check out the WINHEC Shenzen documentation on channel9.msdn.com & the other reputable sources like Mary Jo Foley's blog for instance.

That is all I will say on that.

Yeah, as usual developers fault, scnr Well actually I refer to the way apps being treated by theOS, not the resuming. Doesn't matter which app as it is limitation by system but if you wanna have names: zoiper.

I see, well time will tell how the Rich Comunication Suite will evolve as at the Jan 21st event where they said they are working on building in support (into the messaging hub) so that IP based messaging systems can integrate.

Yeah...damn developers

Not all devs are the same.

Signal strength, traffic / data used, distinguish between H and H+ (all for cellular). I could go on forever...

Signal strength and for connection types would need a refresh rate of per second (most likely less). Live Tiles can currently refresh per minute (the lowest interval I'm aware of), I imagine it comes down to battery life and security as a poorly coded app would wreak havoc.

In terms off monitoring data traffic for Cellular or Wi Fi there is data sense and if your carrier has removed that functionality then blame your carrier.

Allowing third party apps to monitor your traffic does takes this into a grey area.

With everything out there are pros & cons therefore additions to for phones must be evaluated on stringent basis as they have become such an integral part of people's daily routine. If a feature or function doesn't negatively impact useability, performance & security then it either gets implemented as a feature / function or goes under further re-iteration + testing. However if a feature or function negatively impacts said factors - it doesn't make it off the drawing board / thrown down the garbage chute.

You need to understand, an operating system is never designed by a committee but influenced by said committee.

Why not simply allow the user at the time of installation what the app can actually access and what not?!

Extended permissions are coming with Windows 10 as they are in WP 8.1 update 2, however a user has somewhat a choice as all apps have to display what they will be accessing when installed. These are detailed under "Notes" in the "details pivot" in the store app, the issue here is that some devs don't tick off the irrelevant permissions not needed by their app.

Link?

There isn't a link, it is just logical as the over haul to Windows 10 is really to appease their enterprise customers and the consumers who did not take to Windows 8.x hence why I said it is most likely coming with Windows 10

However logic & microsoft don't necessarily go hand in hand :grincry: (which is both - good & bad)

For games not an option, that's true. For "normal" apps things are different.

Not really, the same principle applies if the emulation engine or the software emulating is poorly optimised... combined with poorly written code = crappy experience. In addition to this even if the emulating software is efficient it will still result in a below subpar performance as the emulated app is poorly written. So it goes both ways.

No official statement or announcement while the 1520 disappeared in stores for months and the fanboys craving for a new flagship.

Microsoft commits to a Windows 10 'flagship smartphone' for 2015 | Windows Central

Sounds like your crying as well, so what does that make you? :evil: (rhetorical question)

Your's too. Many carriers pushed out Updates to their phones even before the CV's got it. I experienced with my 1520 Denim.

So i'm the ignorant one, huh prior to the D & S division acquisition Nokia used to have an availability page which would list where in the cycle and update was. From which users would berate their carriers for the update sooo it's only natural that Microsoft being a US based entity is subject to other pressures from the carriers (which is clearly evident by the removal of Microsoft apps from Samsung's latest offerings by US Carriers). After the acquisition this page was dumbed down and only shows if an update is available or not, no listing of where the update is in the cycle. Plus the instance where an update was pushed back to "testing" caused a furor amongst users most likely would have contributed to that dumbing down.

In regards to Country Variant's getting updates last, well certain country variants got it first, some last for Cyan. However other factors are most likely involved so without knowing the complete facts it's easy to speculate.

So it is no means as clear cut as being just Microsoft's fault as you have so clearly indicated in your rant.

They claim a unique user experience with Windows 10. That simply starts by the availabilty on all devices at the same time. That won't come true anyways since Windows RT won't get Windows 10. They focus on desktop, leaving the mobile-devices-playground behind.

Continuum for phones, says otherwise along with the changes listed in the WINHEC documentation. Here is a tidbit since your clearly lazy to look things up :winktongue:.

Windows 10 for phone supports USB Mass Storage, peripherals and hubs | Windows Central

RT for the thousandth time is not dead, the Windows RunTime is evolving. The arm based sku's for tablets has not been abandoned either; tablets less than 7inches will run Windows 10 for phones (with some exceptions). I can understand the misconception if Microsoft had simply called the Surface RT as just "Surface", this common misconception wouldn't exist.

Here's a clue:

Office for Windows 10 free on phones and small tablets, Office 2016 on the way | Windows Central

In an ideal world, everyone would get the update on their phones at the same time.

But this not the Matrix where one can just magically conjure up a dream and manipulate it at their will.

This is reality, where limitations and last minute road blocks exist.:wink:

An update is intended to fix bugs but not add new functions in general etc. Well, nice way to cover it in candy that you don't get your things done on time.

Shows how much you understand software development and I'm the ignorant one... eash.:grincry:

You realize you find an excuse for ANYTHING MS does? Do you work for them? lol

Says the one who says updates in general are just for bug fixes and then assumes i'm finding excuses... :evil:

Well I wish I worked for Microsoft just to play...err work in the "fancy play ground" (that you keep referring to) with Hololens along with the crazy geniuses at MSR :grin:.

Any evidence?

No evidence, it's just pure business - just like how it costs Apple less than $85 for the hardware for the Apple Watch and that is apparently for their "low end model".

Not neccessarily. Any proof for that theory? Well then for the 1520 must have been used the same cheap parts lol. Actually it has turned out that the reason for this behavior on the 1520 is board flexing, EMI and improper grounding. That also explains why replacing the display unit is not always a cure.

See above and in regards to the 1520 perhaps but that is hard to tell as many I know don't have that problem however some do. If it was as you stated than all 1520s will have a similar problem and would have been plastered all over the tech press. So source?

Apparently its how the housing is structured, just like not all screens are created equal (in terms of gorilla glass).

No matter what you call it, they abandon it.

Yes, they most likely did and I'm not sugar coating it.

Just because they will not be progressing it doesn't mean they will just cease to work over night.

Explain to those people who spent much on these devices or being early adopters. Just because you not have one of these devices you don't care. Pretty ignorant.

There is a trade in program for Surface 1 & Surface 2 (that is sadly US only right now) which expires on the 31st of May

Surface RT and Surface 2 owners in the US can get up to $150 off the Surface 3 with trade-in offer | Windows Central.

Also actually I bought several of these as gifts when they were reduced and to assume I don't care hah...

After going through all your points... it is apparent that your are either clearly emotional or just....full of sand... :winktongue:

 

[aveese]

Me too!!! I am now using Galaxy A5 as my primary phone.
My 1520's now my backup phone

 

[Cristian Constantin]

Have a break. Have a Kit Kat. )

 

[stenson625]

Windows phone is a nightmare of an OS compared to android and IOS, even to the newest Blackberry OS: Period!
You can defend this or that, but the truth is that it will forever keep having lowest market share, if it doesn't update its catch up game earlier than now that people still care about WP 10.
After WP 10 must have ignored all widely requested features in other OS's with bountiful excuses, then users and developers will find many excuses to keep to what always works, Android, IOS and Co.

 

[Qtweeder]

oh my, there is always one massively long multi-quoter isn't there, addressing each and every counter point - get a room

 

[stenson625]

Microsoft is still planning and re-planning, while Android and IOS are busy implementing new ideas that matter to users and developers. Let the hawks feed on the chicks! They are already owning the city!

 

[anon(5383410)]

The issue with not being able to use voip without the app in the foreground was resolved (at least on my phone) months ago. There was a time where I could only get Viber calls if I already had the app open. No longer the case. I'm willing to bet OP knows this but wanted to add some extra umph to his rant.

 

[Charles Brown8]

I enjoy threads like this... Amusing... I'll keep my Icon. I'm enjoying it while my cousin with his Motorola Droid is throwing his phone against the windshield in frustration... Comical. Looking forwards to win 10 and what matters to me is it keeps the stability of WP 8.1.. All the extra features will be icing on the cake far as I'm concerned... Everyone have a great day

 

[Sedp23]

When is the next preview coming they Said the end of April and I haven't seen anything

 

[Charles Brown8]

When is the next preview coming they Said the end of April and I haven't seen anything

Ask Microsoft lol..