06-13-2015 11:21 AM
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  1. seb_r's Avatar
    ...as a revolution for mobile devices at least for me.

    Being owner of a Lumia 1520 (which is supposed to bring the best experience with WP) for almost a year and really really really giving WP a try I switch back to my good old Nexus 4. The way MS is heading with Windows 10 does not bring improvement to the flaws that bother most about the current WP.

    First to mention is the retarded way of "multitasking" in combination with the push service. While the "resuming" message can be considered as a minor annoyance this WP "feature" sets some serious limitations for creators of apps. For example no VoIP softphone app is able to receive calls unless you have the phone unlocked and the app running in the foreground - very useful, lol. Oh right, the creator of the app supposed to run a cloud service to make use of push notifications. Saving battery life does not justify such drastic limitations.
    Also there are lot of API's missing, even for basic things like getting the current signal strength or the amount of used data.
    Users request support for OpenVPN as well for many years in WP already which is ignored completely.

    The recently announced attempts to make porting apps from Android or iOS to Windows 10 easier is just a marketing gag and will cause a hype only among some tech websites but ignored by app creators.
    Everybody who had a piece of code that need to be ported from one platform to another knows it is not that easy as MS claims it is by simply uploading your .apk to a website for compatibility check and change a few lines of code - there you go! Of course users will now blame the app creators even more than before if they not release their apps for Windows since now it is "so easy". And those programmers who have already released apps for WP won't care about this anyway, tho these apps always lack a lot of features compared to their Android or iOS counterpart, often enough due to limitations of the operating system.
    This even counts, ironically, for the OneDrive app.
    A substantial solution for this ongoing dilemma would have been the native support of android apps, like Blackberry did. But that was just a wish and ignored as well.

    Pretty disappointing is also the lineup of Phones: besides the confusing numbering scheme of the Lumia devices it has also been an ongoing question (and demand) here in the forums for a new flagship phone since the 1520 disappeared in stores for a few months already without even the announcement of a successor.

    The slow rollout of firmwares (that spreads over months) and OS updates (even for the TP) is pretty disappointing and unprofessional as well in combination with their missed timelines - delays delays delays. No wonder Belfiore had to state the release of Win 10 for phones will be delayed and the desktop version to improve continously ( = permanent construction site).
    Same disappointment is the way Microsoft deals with hardware issues certain phones have: the 1520 was heavily plagued by touchscreen problems caused by hardware design faults as often enough you reading of users who had their display units replaced multiple times without improving it much.
    Story continues with the Lumia 535 being released last year and every firmware update claims to fix the touchscreen issues while for the majority of users it doesn't. At least Microsoft now acknowledged the problem so there seems to be at least a learning curve.

    About the unique platform for all devices Windows 10 claims to be I wonder what will happen to Windows RT?
    No Insider App, no leaking screenshots of builds, no news or timelines except the vague, unpopular statement that it will later only receive "some" features of Windows 10. This platform seems abandoned already. Why does this remind me of WP 7?

    Overall I am pretty disappointed with development regarding mobile platforms like smartphone and tablet. It appears much more like a playground for MS to try out some new concepts than a solid platform for daily use especially in comparison with its competitors.
    For desktop things are different and also with Windows 10 I feel being on the right track and for sure will upgrade to Windows 10, no doubt.
    Last edited by Guytronic; 05-03-2015 at 10:23 AM.
    05-02-2015 07:28 AM
  2. Asskickulater's Avatar
    Feel better now?
    05-03-2015 07:06 AM
  3. aximtreo's Avatar
    Whew!!!!!
    Guytronic likes this.
    05-03-2015 07:14 AM
  4. hotphil's Avatar
    Can someone do a one-line summary for me?
    05-03-2015 07:21 AM
  5. Richard Culverhouse's Avatar
    Can someone do a one-line summary for me?
    WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!

    Lol
    05-03-2015 07:33 AM
  6. nTrud3r's Avatar
    Can someone do a one-line summary for me?
    He wants to update to Windows 10
    05-03-2015 08:27 AM
  7. Mohamed Ahmed Nader's Avatar
    I honestly read it all and I would actually agree with you. L1520 as well here.
    mikepalma, FinancialP and seb_r like this.
    05-03-2015 08:36 AM
  8. Timbre70's Avatar
    Can someone do a one-line summary for me?
    ITE = It's The End.
    05-03-2015 08:40 AM
  9. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    My experience is quite opposite. My Lumia 920 got stolen recently and I had to switch to my old Xperia. And the experience is quite jarring. No live tiles kinda make me feel lost when using the phone. The phone feels just lifeless. Also the apps, agreed they have more features, but they try to put too much info and controls on the screen, which makes it impossible for user to focus on what's the most important. Even though I don't like the UI design MS is heading with Windows 10, but I don't think I will leave Windows for anything else.
    05-03-2015 08:50 AM
  10. seb_r's Avatar
    Wow how surprising to see many educated and substantial posts here. That's what happens if you run out of arguments.

    PS: I'm talking about Win10 on mobile platforms, not for desktop!
    FinancialP likes this.
    05-03-2015 09:38 AM
  11. MDK22's Avatar
    Wow how surprising to see many educated and substantial posts here. That's what happens if you run out of arguments.

    PS: I'm talking about Win10 on mobile platforms, not for desktop!
    Has it occurred to you ...

    Win10 on mobile platforms may just be a bit behind the desktop version. They (MS principles) have stipulated that Win10 mobile will be released AFTER Win10 (for desktops). Now, that being said, IF you're basing your opinion on Insider Preview for mobile, AGREE, currently it's kinda meh.

    However, an article I just read, shows some of the design enhancements coming for Win10 mobile - (wait for it) ...
    based on user feedback.

    Old saying 'Good code takes time' ...
    your post came off as a rant, ready to dismiss Win10 mobile based on very early builds.

    What type of response did you expect on a Windows forum - there are a requisite number of fanboys here (not me), who would smack that stuff back at you. I'll take a wait and see approach, I'm actually anxious for the next build - on my backup Lumia 635. My daily driver (Lumia 1520) will not take Win10 mobile, until it's at RTM level, probably in ~~ 3 months.
    05-03-2015 02:12 PM
  12. Giddora's Avatar
    I love all these conclusions that are gathering up around the net about the open tech preview that Microsoft is inviting us to volounteer to... People are judging books by the color of their neighbours car.
    05-03-2015 05:25 PM
  13. seb_r's Avatar
    Well if you read my first post carefully it is about the OS itself and not the the UI or design. And I am pretty sure even the early builds can give a good impression of that and no drastic changes to be done to that anymore. Especially if you keep in mind the idea of universal apps throughout the develpment process of a multi-platform OS. So I am pretty convinced that there are no surprises regarding the "core" (multitasking, notifications, API's) of the new OS on mobile devices.
    For sure MS listen to some feedback. And for sure we will see many changes - but not behind the scene of the OS. Well honestly what you refer to is mostly related to the user interface. Actually some people indeed care if they have an extra column of tiles or a hamburger vs. dots to bring up a menu. But please...
    Well I still have the latest build of TP on my 1520 and it's normal early builds have bugs. But what made me finally abandon WP is that still the same annoyances (see above) persist. And there is not just me complaining about it.
    0000alex0000 and chmun77 like this.
    05-03-2015 06:15 PM
  14. Tareq27's Avatar
    Well if you read my first post carefully it is about the OS itself and not the the UI or design. And I am pretty sure even the early builds can give a good impression of that and no drastic changes to be done to that anymore. Especially if you keep in mind the idea of universal apps throughout the develpment process of a multi-platform OS. So I am pretty convinced that there are no surprises regarding the "core" (multitasking, notifications, API's) of the new OS on mobile devices.
    For sure MS listen to some feedback. And for sure we will see many changes - but not behind the scene of the OS. Well honestly what you refer to is mostly related to the user interface. Actually some people indeed care if they have an extra column of tiles or a hamburger vs. dots to bring up a menu. But please...
    Well I still have the latest build of TP on my 1520 and it's normal early builds have bugs. But what made me finally abandon WP is that still the same annoyances (see above) persist. And there is not just me complaining about it.
    Yeah i do feel The same way! We used to think it is The developers fault but it is the OS that is limited, and although I enjoy a UI refresh, that alone is not enough Microsoft! Shake up the OS a little ! You're the biggest tech Company ! Add those Missing API s the developers need and add the basic Missing features we've always cried to get ! I've been a Loyal WP fan but Microsoft is damn slow to keep us in , and to all the Other fan boys who are going to start going " then go to IOS " I do what I want and I have the right to say that th OS is a little behind /but it still is my favorite / so yeah , there are alot feeling like you my friend, just a thin line of hope is what keeping me here ( and the Perfect design of the Lumia1520) .
    0000alex0000, Sam_93 and chmun77 like this.
    05-03-2015 06:35 PM
  15. noersetiawan's Avatar
    I agree with you, unless they learn from what Android apps actually can do and fixed the OS limitation, it won't change anything. I'd say give more API's, remove those system limitation, let any app do whatever they are able to, but make it super hard to manually deploy app and only allow apps installed from Store which is monitored heavily app-by-app. Yeah I don't think that's possible, won't be easy. Let's see what they'll do, they said they will look into this issue at //build/. And regarding multi tasking, it's fine if an app suspended as long as their function continue to work i.e. for VoIP app like u mentioned or app that does download, either by providing more type of background agent by OS that handle specific task for all app or let app run their own background agent just like in Android.

    And about hardware defects that never fixed, that's amazing they manage to make 535 successful sale with that frustrating touch screen issue...
    05-03-2015 07:28 PM
  16. Spectrum90's Avatar
    What apps can't be ported to WP because of APIs limitations?
    05-03-2015 07:39 PM
  17. Legoboyii's Avatar
    What apps can't be ported to WP because of APIs limitations?
    On top of that Microsoft said during the first keynote it was building tons of APIs in preparation for windows 10.

    lremove those system limitation, let any app do whatever they are able to
    Not going to happen, there's a reason that WP is the most secure of the three major mobile OSes. Following your advice would cripple its security and fluidity.
    05-03-2015 07:40 PM
  18. ajayden's Avatar
    Agreed that Android has so many APIs open to the developers and but that compromises the security of the end user (consumer).

    As mentioned in the Build video for Project Astoria, the API for accessing the browser control has the biggest security threat on android.

    A good OS is one that does not compromise the security of the user and yet delivers a good experience. And windows phone delivers that experience without compromising the users security.
    Posted on Lumia 1520 via Taptalk
    Legoboyii, Praxius, neo158 and 4 others like this.
    05-03-2015 07:53 PM
  19. noersetiawan's Avatar
    On top of that Microsoft said during the first keynote it was building tons of APIs in preparation for windows 10.



    Not going to happen, there's a reason that WP is the most secure of the three major mobile OSes. Following your advice would cripple its security and fluidity.
    That's what I mean, it's not possible to have security and ultimate freedom at the same time, you always have to compromise something. Which is why waiting for W10 will be more exciting to see what they can do about it 😊, they have more challenge now. At build they answer most questions with 'no', 'It's still in early stage', and 'We'll provide the most optimum path for that', but almost no straight 'yes' answer.
    05-03-2015 07:58 PM
  20. Praxius's Avatar
    As others in here have mentioned, I don't want my phone's security compromised simply so a couple of apps can do a couple of fancy things I don't care about and would never use.

    And I say I would never use them because I don't use them now. My Lumia 930 does everything I need it to right now.

    Being able to port over iOS and Android Apps easier than before was never meant to ensure all app devs will jump on board with Windows 10, but it makes it easier none the less. In combination with the possibility of making your app universal for phones, PC's, laptops, tablets and Xboxes..... It makes it even more enticing, but that again isn't meant as a way to promise all of these other apps will come flooding in.

    Many will for multiple reasons, but how many will remains to be seen.

    Either way, some of course will not like the direction W10 is going, while others will. A company making a product can only try to please the majority of its customers as you can not please everyone.

    They have been getting feedback from many and have seen what went right and what went wrong in Windows 8/8.1.... And believe it or not, the majority like where W10 is heading overall.

    You obviously don't. So be it.... Android is that way ->
    neo158 likes this.
    05-03-2015 08:26 PM
  21. djeire84's Avatar
    I actually wandered into encyclopedia Britannica by accident on this forum topic lol
    Kodiak12 likes this.
    05-03-2015 09:21 PM
  22. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Lets put some prospective about the points you have made. Hopefully this will stop you from perpetuating such....drivel .


    ...as a revolution for mobile devices at least for me.

    Being owner of a Lumia 1520 (which is supposed to bring the best experience with WP) for almost a year and really really really giving WP a try I switch back to my good old Nexus 4. The way MS is heading with Windows 10 does not bring improvement to the flaws that bother most about the current WP.
    Hmm, really?

    So a over hauled outlook app doesn't address a flaw in Windows Phone 8.x?
    Where one can neither attach office documents but share a single office document via the office hub. Or multiple documents via a file picker, however such practises are just wrong - sharing secure links are best practice. This eliminates the issue of multiple file versions, emails with incorrect subject headers, badly scanned files that are not compressed but at an attrocious dpi level just to get the darn thing attached or just flung into the scanner with staples attached etc etc.

    So the ability to reply to text messages in line without leaving what your doing, is not an improvement?

    So the addition of being able to move the keyboard & snap to either left or right hand side of the screen - not an improvement?

    So the incorporation of full office is not a benefit?

    So the redesign of the setting screen doesn't address the gripe of most users?

    I could go on forever.


    First to mention is the retarded way of "multitasking" in combination with the push service. While the "resuming" message can be considered as a minor annoyance this WP "feature" sets some serious limitations for creators of apps. For example no VoIP softphone app is able to receive calls unless you have the phone unlocked and the app running in the foreground - very useful, lol. Oh right, the creator of the app supposed to run a cloud service to make use of push notifications. Saving battery life does not justify such drastic limitations.
    Hmm retarded way of multi tasking, if your talking about the current system.

    It is far from retarded, what was retarded was the multi tasking in IOS until IOS 7.

    I admit how the back stack was implemented in Windows Phone prior to implementation of swipe down to close / x button was just.....

    In regards to the "resuming screen" that is down to poor code optimisation and you stated that "VOIP apps need to run in the foreground", care to give examples?

    It is one thing to state something as a fact with evidence and another thing entirely when no evidence is given to support such a statement.

    A developer does not need to run their own cloud services to support push notifications, an indie dev can tie into Microsoft Azure and enable such notifications via a IAP. For mobile app developers with deep pockets the cost is just standard business practice (of course games don't really need such notifications).

    Also It is not MS's job to implement a background agent for a developer, if the developer is lazy than there is no fix for that.


    Also there are lot of API's missing, even for basic things like getting the current signal strength or the amount of used data.
    What are you referring to? Wi Fi or Cellular?

    Again - be specific.

    Apps operate in a secure container so they don't have access to functions / areas of the phones they have no business in touching.

    Users request support for OpenVPN as well for many years in WP already which is ignored completely.
    That is most likely coming with Windows 10, why?

    Because they are trying get back into the enterprise market, which they abandoned trying to emulate apple with the consumer centric Wp7. Despite the fact Windows Mobile 6.x had way more "pull" in the enterprise segment. Also Windows 10 has been designed to win back the enterprise as Windows 8 was far too alien and had a "perceived steep" learning curve. The additional benefit it brings back the crowd who stayed away from 8 and stuck to Windows 7 / XP.


    The recently announced attempts to make porting apps from Android or iOS to Windows 10 easier is just a marketing gag and will cause a hype only among some tech websites but ignored by app creators.
    Everybody who had a piece of code that need to be ported from one platform to another knows it is not that easy as MS claims it is by simply uploading your .apk to a website for compatibility check and change a few lines of code - there you go! Of course users will now blame the app creators even more than before if they not release their apps for Windows since now it is "so easy". And those programmers who have already released apps for WP won't care about this anyway, tho these apps always lack a lot of features compared to their Android or iOS counterpart, often enough due to limitations of the operating system.

    This even counts, ironically, for the OneDrive app.
    A substantial solution for this ongoing dilemma would have been the native support of android apps, like Blackberry did. But that was just a wish and ignored as well.
    I'm curious have you used the tools??

    Or just spewing what you have read on the internet, as I really doubt you have used them.

    Yes, the Microsoft apps are better on other platforms which may appear as shock to you. But it is just business, pure & simple - as this way they ensure users are not using competing services. The catch 22 is, windows phone users felt like left in the dark - many of us wanted App Parity (myself included). However there are insane amount of changes that are coming to phones with Windows 10 - it is astonishing - so I am happy to wait. [Just look at the ShenZen WinHec documentation].

    Also Blackberry used an older version of Android for emulation (it is now better than before but the damage has been done - just like the silliness with the blackberry playbook) and like with anything emulated you are going to need a lot of resources for a smooth experience.


    Pretty disappointing is also the lineup of Phones: besides the confusing numbering scheme of the Lumia devices it has also been an ongoing question (and demand) here in the forums for a new flagship phone since the 1520 disappeared in stores for a few months already without even the announcement of a successor.
    A flagship is coming which has been reiterated time & time again.

    But Some just don't get it, if you had a choice in releasing a flagship product that did nothing new or was different from the competition or didn't operate at it's full potential without an update. With thanks to US carriers may take an eternity to get pushed out. Would you release it?


    The slow rollout of firmwares (that spreads over months) and OS updates (even for the TP) is pretty disappointing and unprofessional as well in combination with their missed timelines - delays delays delays.

    No wonder Belfiore had to state the release of Win 10 for phones will be delayed and the desktop version to improve continously ( = permanent construction site).
    Your ignorance here sadly speaks volumes, the delays are down to carrier testing & approval.

    The technical preview for phones, was launched near on 6 months after the desktop preview. Designing, implementing & reiterating an o/s is not as simple as pressing a button or peeling an orange.

    Windows 10 for Phones is not delayed, it is called a staggered release as a) it keeps them in the news cycle thereby attracting mind share b) reduces workload, they aren't machines but people like everyone else.

    Sure, I would love them release everything in one full sweep but that is not realistic let alone practical; as the scale of task would be monstrous. Let me put it into prospective {not an exhaustive list}:

    • Making sure you have enough supply for demand
    • Staff trained & clued up for sale day
    • Your distribution partners primed for launch so they can gear up their staff, if there are any changes in refund policies that they all are aware of such changes.
    • Marketing events going live simultaneously with the unveil such as on the day promotions, if they are region specific, market or country specific etc etc


    In regards to desktop windows being a construction site, remind me has Google ever finished those betas?

    They (Microsoft) have said that Windows will always be updated and to think of it as Windows as Service (not a subscription service). Never the less no software is final until it has been completely EOLed.



    Same disappointment is the way Microsoft deals with hardware issues certain phones have: the 1520 was heavily plagued by touchscreen problems caused by hardware design faults as often enough you reading of users who had their display units replaced multiple times without improving it much.
    Story continues with the Lumia 535 being released last year and every firmware update claims to fix the touchscreen issues while for the majority of users it doesn't. At least Microsoft now acknowledged the problem so there seems to be at least a learning curve.
    You haven't been using Windows Phone long enough have you?

    The 1520 was launched prior to the Nokia D & S division acquisition as such Microsoft can not do much about it. Then the re-org came and that would have put quite a lot of stuff on the back burner.

    The touch screen issue on the 535 was down to reduction of cost for production. In order to hit low price points with a high spec, lower quality parts had to be used. Of course they could have ordered everything in bulk to reduce cost but means you have dead stock if you do not sell along with other fiscal ramifications.


    About the unique platform for all devices Windows 10 claims to be I wonder what will happen to Windows RT?
    No Insider App, no leaking screenshots of builds, no news or timelines except the vague, unpopular statement that it will later only receive "some" features of Windows 10. This platform seems abandoned already. Why does this remind me of WP 7?
    RT is not dead, RT really stands for RUN TIME and in this context your referring to O/S that ran on a limited number of tablets. The Arm version of Windows is not dead either, just the Surface 2, Surface 1, Lumia 2520 along with others won't be progressing.

    As callous as it sounds - it is easier to have an unified install base as opposed to supporting legacy especially at a time when coding hours are extremely priceless.


    Overall I am pretty disappointed with development regarding mobile platforms like smartphone and tablet. It appears much more like a playground for MS to try out some new concepts than a solid platform for daily use especially in comparison with its competitors.
    For desktop things are different and also with Windows 10 I feel being on the right track and for sure will upgrade to Windows 10, no doubt.
    If your looking for a playground check out Microsoft research.

    Solid platform?

    So remaining stagnant and not innovating can be seen as a solid platform, interesting /s.

    Remind us again how big is the install base of Windows compared to say OSX or Chrome O/S?

    In regards to Windows 10 being on the right track, that is subjective as some love how Windows 8 worked and loath the changes in 10. Some are resistant to change whereas others are not so.

    It is just like Marmite, you either love it or hate.

    I for agree, that Windows 10 is on the right track and as whole, the way forward. But there are things that I do not agree with and have given feedback via the feedback app.
    05-03-2015 11:13 PM
  23. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Can someone do a one-line summary for me?
    He went back to Android, Nexus 4, MS screwed up WP, Windows 10 sucks, I think.

    Even if Windows 10 for Phones is a total visual and usability train wreck I don't see myself going back to Android anytime soon. Sticking with 8.1 seems like a better option.
    prasath1234, Alfa Kapa and hiya15 like this.
    05-04-2015 12:17 AM
  24. prasath1234's Avatar
    Ya me too am super happy with windows phone 8.1.I will use my browser to get information as opposed to apps.
    05-04-2015 02:00 AM
  25. Sebastianx's Avatar
    No need to whine it up here if you gonna switch back to Android then please do so.
    hiya15 likes this.
    05-04-2015 02:03 AM
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