05-06-2015 10:41 AM
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  1. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    No Continuum on existing Windows 8.1 phones may be the ultimate reason to purchase new hardware. Especially if your PC sucks and you can get by with a smartphone and a monitor. This will also push sales of high end Windows Phones, and the flagship, once we get it. If the rumors are true, Microsoft is saving you even MORE money with additional value through this feature. One more reason to avoid Android and iOS.
    05-04-2015 10:21 AM
  2. Don Geronimo's Avatar
    I don't think it's the ultimate reason (at least for me), but it's certainly a reason for me to consider, and may be an ultimate reason for many people I know and don't know. If I didn't need full Windows 10 for things like Visual Studio and Adobe CC, I could certainly rock just a phone.
    xandros9 and aximtreo like this.
    05-04-2015 10:41 AM
  3. T Moore's Avatar
    Buy a new phone and get caught in another trap?
    What about users that bought an 830 on AT&T and still don't have camera 5 for lack of updates.
    ven07 likes this.
    05-04-2015 10:49 AM
  4. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    Buy a new phone and get caught in another trap?
    What about users that bought an 830 on AT&T and still don't have camera 5 for lack of updates.
    Good point. I haven't received any updates to my 635 through AT&T.
    prasath1234 and JohnStrk like this.
    05-04-2015 11:20 AM
  5. DCTF's Avatar
    I think people are getting a bit too invested in whether it's HEAVEN that we can buy new flagships for Continuum, or if it's HELL to own a phone that's being cruelly denied this privilege.

    Yes, it's a lovely-looking feature, but I don't think it's essential. I'm sure it'll come in handy a few times a year if you've got it, but it's unlikely to be the end of the world if we don't (plus we've had a bunch of ways of beaming data from our phones to a screen for a while now). There will be exceptional people who can get more out of it - busy graphic designers hopping from office to office throughout the day, maybe - but the way people are talking, you'd think a L930 was a redundant phone now. There's been some genuine moping going on during Build, from people regretting their recent purchases of 830s and 930s. Granted, it makes sense to wait and see how these new flagships turn out and it'd be nice to be out of this weird inter-OS limbo before getting new hardware, but the 940s will be very expensive on release whereas the 930 will cost me around 165 unlocked on eBay today and it's a great phone.
    05-04-2015 11:28 AM
  6. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    I don't think it's the ultimate reason (at least for me), but it's certainly a reason for me to consider, and may be an ultimate reason for many people I know and don't know. If I didn't need full Windows 10 for things like Visual Studio and Adobe CC, I could certainly rock just a phone.
    My thinking is that Microsoft could sell high end phones this way. Say a 2 GB RAM phone. You wouldn't need that type of performance on a smartphone, but you'll want it to communicate with peripherals. Then Microsoft can sell fancy goods like a wireless monitor that communicates with the phone over Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. No need for a Wireless Display Adaptor. You'll have people using their phones as a low end Xbox, among other things.
    swedishdude, DCTF and prasath1234 like this.
    05-04-2015 11:28 AM
  7. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    I think people are getting a bit too invested in whether it's HEAVEN that we can buy new flagships for Continuum, or if it's HELL to own a phone that's being cruelly denied this privilege.

    Yes, it's a lovely-looking feature, but I don't think it's essential. I'm sure it'll come in handy a few times a year if you've got it, but it's unlikely to be the end of the world if we don't (plus we've had a bunch of ways of beaming data from our phones to a screen for a while now). There will be exceptional people who can get more out of it - busy graphic designers hopping from office to office throughout the day, maybe - but the way people are talking, you'd think a L930 was a redundant phone now. There's been some genuine moping going on during Build, from people regretting their recent purchases of 830s and 930s. Granted, it makes sense to wait and see how these new flagships turn out and it'd be nice to be out of this weird inter-OS limbo before getting new hardware, but the 940s will be very expensive on release whereas the 930 will cost me around 165 unlocked on eBay today and it's a great phone.
    It isn't essential for most users. I just think it is a possibility for Microsoft to create a niche market of users. But I doubt that would ever become the norm, it will always be the exception.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    05-04-2015 11:33 AM
  8. Yazen's Avatar
    No Continuum on existing Windows 8.1 phones may be the ultimate reason to purchase new hardware. Especially if your PC sucks and you can get by with a smartphone and a monitor. This will also push sales of high end Windows Phones, and the flagship, once we get it. If the rumors are true, Microsoft is saving you even MORE money with additional value through this feature. One more reason to avoid Android and iOS.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=203&v=0ywnDpxWuAA
    ^ Same processor as Lumia 920


    Continuum is a rehash of features that have existed on phones for years. There is no excuse as to why Lumia 1520 and 930 would not be able to support this feature wirelessly through Miracast.

    Not saying that these devices will be able to implement ALL features, however, let's break down Continuum from what we have already seen:

    Lumia XXXX:
    1 - Connects phone through MHL interface
    2 - Target display (Monitor/TV) is a larger display, UI layouts are adjusted
    3 - Apps viewed on phone maintain standard UI layouts
    4 - Phone can act as a mouse/keyboard, therefore there must be a dual view implementation
    5 - Phones support HID through Bluetooth USB


    AT THE VERY LEAST

    Lumia 1520:
    1 - Connect phone through Miracast
    2 - UI layouts are adjusted for target display, courtesy of Universal Apps
    3 - Supports HID through Bluetooth/USB, such as Mouse, Keyboard, etc


    Lumia 1520 already supports Miracast, therefore there is literally no excuse for Microsoft to not be able to implement Continuum on Televisions via single screen rendering implementation.

    EDIT: PS, Lumia 920 should be able to support Miracast, and technically speaking would be able to support Continuum through a single rendering implementation. I do not know how they are implementing multi rendering, therefore I do not know if Lumia 1520 can support the full feature set, minus wired HDMI via MHL interface.

    EDIT2: Please do not flame me
    05-04-2015 11:33 AM
  9. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=203&v=0ywnDpxWuAA
    ^ Same processor as Lumia 920


    Continuum is a rehash of features that have existed on phones for years. There is no excuse as to why Lumia 1520 and 930 would not be able to support this feature wirelessly through Miracast.

    Not saying that these devices will be able to implement ALL features, however, let's break down Continuum from what we have already seen:

    Lumia XXXX:
    1 - Connects phone through MHL interface
    2 - Target display (Monitor/TV) is a larger display, UI layouts are adjusted
    3 - Apps viewed on phone maintain standard UI layouts
    4 - Phone can act as a mouse/keyboard, therefore there must be a dual view implementation
    5 - Phones support HID through Bluetooth USB


    AT THE VERY LEAST

    Lumia 1520:
    1 - Connect phone through Miracast
    2 - UI layouts are adjusted for target display, courtesy of Universal Apps
    3 - Supports HID through Bluetooth/USB, such as Mouse, Keyboard, etc


    Lumia 1520 already supports Miracast, therefore there is literally no excuse for Microsoft to not be able to implement Continuum on Televisions via single screen rendering implementation.
    I definitely agree. It feels like Microsoft is doing to existing 8.1 owners what Apple consistently does to their fans, with this whole continuum thing, by making people purchase new phones. Seeing that the bulk of 8.1 users are getting upgraded to 10 automatically, Microsoft needs some differentiation in their ecosystem, and continuum is one way they're going to accomplish this.
    prasath1234 and Yazen like this.
    05-04-2015 11:39 AM
  10. Yazen's Avatar
    I definitely agree. It feels like Microsoft is doing to existing 8.1 owners what Apple consistently does to their fans, with this whole continuum thing, by making people purchase new phones. Seeing that the bulk of 8.1 users are getting upgraded to 10 automatically, Microsoft needs some differentiation in their ecosystem, and continuum is one way they're going to accomplish this.
    Until they shed more light we won't know exactly how Continuum for phones works. Maybe they did not want a half-assed version on the L930/1020, or did not want to spend development time for older devices.

    But as you mentioned I am pretty sure its for segregation purposes.

    Food for thought:
    1. Nokia Symbian Phones supported USB MHL and OTG.
    2. Lumia 820/920/1020 has the hardware for Wi-Fi direct (What Miracast is implemented off of)
    3. Current Lumia devices will support USB OTG
    4. S4 Plus SoC (820/920/1020) has the hardware for USB MHL (Video out)
    5. Problem?


    I am highly interested as to why current devices cannot have any form of Continuum, especially since Universal apps will have layouts for multiple form factors.

    Thoughts that run through my head:
    1. Performance: Arguable, depending on implementation.
    2. Hardware: Unknown, however Lumia 820/920/1020 and beyond should have the hardware required to at least render one display via wired interface.
    3. Development resources: Feasible, but I think that if all phones are getting W10, all phones should be considered candidates.


    I kind of hate how Microsoft pushes aside last generation devices in general. Not that I feel entitled to all new features, it just irks me when there is perfectly good hardware that gets labeled as a clunker simply because it shipped with an older version of the OS.
    prasath1234 and Kram Sacul like this.
    05-04-2015 12:29 PM
  11. vespernova7's Avatar
    Microsoft already makes a wireless display adapter. you can pick it up at best buy or their online store. the thing to see i think is a docking station for the phone. add in the ability to work wirelessly with an Xbox controller and you have a poor man's Xbox
    05-04-2015 01:26 PM
  12. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    Until they shed more light we won't know exactly how Continuum for phones works. Maybe they did not want a half-assed version on the L930/1020, or did not want to spend development time for older devices.

    But as you mentioned I am pretty sure its for segregation purposes.

    Food for thought:
    1. Nokia Symbian Phones supported USB MHL and OTG.
    2. Lumia 820/920/1020 has the hardware for Wi-Fi direct (What Miracast is implemented off of)
    3. Current Lumia devices will support USB OTG
    4. S4 Plus SoC (820/920/1020) has the hardware for USB MHL (Video out)
    5. Problem?


    I am highly interested as to why current devices cannot have any form of Continuum, especially since Universal apps will have layouts for multiple form factors.

    Thoughts that run through my head:
    1. Performance: Arguable, depending on implementation.
    2. Hardware: Unknown, however Lumia 820/920/1020 and beyond should have the hardware required to at least render one display via wired interface.
    3. Development resources: Feasible, but I think that if all phones are getting W10, all phones should be considered candidates.


    I kind of hate how Microsoft pushes aside last generation devices in general. Not that I feel entitled to all new features, it just irks me when there is perfectly good hardware that gets labeled as a clunker simply because it shipped with an older version of the OS.
    With Continuum, is the phone running two different implementations of the same app side by side? Like, apps for Windows 10 must be larger and consume more resources than Windows 8.1 apps because the same app has to view 3 different ways, phone, tablet, and PC/Laptop. So you would need to write additional features in each implementation. How robust are these apps; will my phone contain a fully featured version of Office 2015, the version of Office for phones, and Office 365, in the same app? And then switch from one app to another, based on the display it detects?
    05-05-2015 09:55 AM
  13. akthelonelyman's Avatar
    Wont certainly jump into getting a new phone before watching and being convinced about Microsoft's sustained commitment unlike wp8.1 and app situation... Till then w10 on 1520
    05-05-2015 10:01 AM
  14. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    Until they shed more light we won't know exactly how Continuum for phones works. Maybe they did not want a half-assed version on the L930/1020, or did not want to spend development time for older devices.

    But as you mentioned I am pretty sure its for segregation purposes.

    Food for thought:
    1. Nokia Symbian Phones supported USB MHL and OTG.
    2. Lumia 820/920/1020 has the hardware for Wi-Fi direct (What Miracast is implemented off of)
    3. Current Lumia devices will support USB OTG
    4. S4 Plus SoC (820/920/1020) has the hardware for USB MHL (Video out)
    5. Problem?


    I am highly interested as to why current devices cannot have any form of Continuum, especially since Universal apps will have layouts for multiple form factors.

    Thoughts that run through my head:
    1. Performance: Arguable, depending on implementation.
    2. Hardware: Unknown, however Lumia 820/920/1020 and beyond should have the hardware required to at least render one display via wired interface.
    3. Development resources: Feasible, but I think that if all phones are getting W10, all phones should be considered candidates.


    I kind of hate how Microsoft pushes aside last generation devices in general. Not that I feel entitled to all new features, it just irks me when there is perfectly good hardware that gets labeled as a clunker simply because it shipped with an older version of the OS.
    When they told us that some of the phones that receive the update to Windows 10 would not have the full feature set, Continuum is probably one of the technologies they had in mind.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    05-05-2015 10:03 AM
  15. Yazen's Avatar
    With Continuum, is the phone running two different implementations of the same app side by side? Like, apps for Windows 10 must be larger and consume more resources than Windows 8.1 apps because the same app has to view 3 different ways, phone, tablet, and PC/Laptop. So you would need to write additional features in each implementation. How robust are these apps; will my phone contain a fully featured version of Office 2015, the version of Office for phones, and Office 365, in the same app? And then switch from one app to another, based on the display it detects?
    I am assuming the apps change layouts on the fly, as Universal apps use MVC design. Essentially, there will be one app that contains different views.

    In order to reduce the amount of bugs, Microsoft would probably have this operation as transparent as possible.

    EDIT:
    Windows 10 Insider Preview introduces an evolution of the existing scaling model. In addition to scaling vector content, there is a unified set of scale factors that provides a consistent size for UI elements across a variety of screen sizes and display resolutions
    ....
    Design your workflow using navigation patterns to accommodate mobile, small-screen, and large-screen devices. Lay out your user interface for a specific window size, not for the available resolution.

    So yep, that's Continuum for ya! Rehash of new features confirmed :)
    Last edited by Yazen; 05-05-2015 at 04:55 PM.
    05-05-2015 04:25 PM
  16. Yazen's Avatar
    When they told us that some of the phones that receive the update to Windows 10 would not have the full feature set, Continuum is probably one of the technologies they had in mind.
    Most likely, but Microsoft really needs to explain why Continuum would not work on Miracast enabled devices.

    What I am really afraid of is that the Continuum moniker includes accepting and receiving phones calls / replying to SMS. This has been done via Bluetooth for quite a long time, so I hope this is not the case.

    Continuum could be a great way to augment the desktop/laptop experience, and devices such as L920 would definitely be compatible.
    05-05-2015 06:57 PM
  17. MarkusDindu's Avatar
    I'm still not convinced that plugging a keyboard, mouse, and monitor into your phone and using it as a computer is so great. I've seen Android users do it in the past, and I thought it was kind of cool, but nothing most people would care to do.
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    05-05-2015 07:49 PM
  18. Yazen's Avatar
    I'm still not convinced that plugging a keyboard, mouse, and monitor into your phone and using it as a computer is so great. I've seen Android users do it in the past, and I thought it was kind of cool, but nothing most people would care to do.
    True, not entirely practical for those with computers. To me, a Continuum experience would be similar to VirtualBox's seamless mode:
    virtualbox-seamless-mode-windows.png
    virtualbox-seamless-demo-1.jpg

    I think having the phone's start screen accessible through the desktop start menu would be slick!
    05-05-2015 08:31 PM
  19. rex.reyesiii's Avatar
    Guys I don't think anyone has already posted this?

    Windows 10 just beat Ubuntu to the smartphone-PC convergence punch | PCWorld

    I think Its nothing like what you guys have described in your posts?

    ???
    realwarder likes this.
    05-06-2015 03:20 AM
  20. buddy007's Avatar
    No Continuum on existing Windows 8.1 phones may be the ultimate reason to purchase new hardware. Especially if your PC sucks and you can get by with a smartphone and a monitor. This will also push sales of high end Windows Phones, and the flagship, once we get it. If the rumors are true, Microsoft is saving you even MORE money with additional value through this feature. One more reason to avoid Android and iOS.
    i think most are prejudiced towards this "phone to PC " feature but let me break it down, the continuum only renders the apps which are on your phone which should be in universal app format. that doesnt open up to a huge catalog now, and if any app through project astoria is running on your phone it doesnt render in desktop mode since its only a phone app(for now atleast) although IOS ports might work if they port it to universal format. So if MS were to announce the high end lumia today with that feature the most you will be able to do on this "PC" is using Office ,those are the best apps i can come up with for continuum usage. more need to be built to advertise this as a unique feature.
    Bottomline: Continuum doesnt make your phone into PC hell you cant even access its root folders, only you can use preinstalled universal counterparts in desktop mode, thats about it. You can directly install the app on your PC for that instead of buying a high end phone to supply that app to PC.
    05-06-2015 06:08 AM
  21. Pavstar619's Avatar
    I think I'll live with my Lumia 640XL without Continuum.
    05-06-2015 08:02 AM
  22. Pavstar619's Avatar
    Wont certainly jump into getting a new phone before watching and being convinced about Microsoft's sustained commitment unlike wp8.1 and app situation... Till then w10 on 1520
    Same here. Gonna stick to my new Lumia 640XL
    05-06-2015 08:09 AM
  23. 7508887757's Avatar
    Ya... Thinking to buy new phone but at the same time waiting for Windows 10 flagship
    05-06-2015 08:23 AM
  24. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Buy a new phone and get caught in another trap?
    What about users that bought an 830 on AT&T and still don't have camera 5 for lack of updates.
    I received it through Rogers in Canada and honestly lumia camera 5 is not even that great. I find the Microsoft camera takes better shots.
    05-06-2015 08:57 AM
  25. JohnStrk's Avatar
    Even though I recently picked up the 830 for $200 off contract, I'm still looking forward to a new Windows 10 flagship at some point. But I won't jump on it right away but will wait till it goes on sale and has all my carrier updates. I'm not going through another Denim & Lumia Camera 5 carrier delay fiasco. I don't just want Continuum but any other cool new Windows 10 features need to be preinstalled and proven to work out of the box. Not coming SOON like this Denim BS!

    And add this to the new hardware Continuum confusion. If this is true it will not go over well with WP consumers!

    "the higher end Cityman will support the new Continuum for phones feature but the slightly lower end Talkman will not have the feature"
    Updated: Now with statement by Microsoft -The Verge corroborates Cityman and Talkman Lumia flagship rumours, but add a worrying note
    Yazen likes this.
    05-06-2015 09:07 AM
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