06-26-2015 06:52 PM
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  1. realwarder's Avatar
    Read a different article reminding us that the new owner of Windows and Devices, Terry Myerson I think, was the guy who made Windows Phone what it is today. He lead the team to do the rewrites of the OS and that's been his baby since then. In many ways he's always had a strong vision for the platform and OS and I see him having control of everything as being great news.
    Dadstar0410 likes this.
    06-22-2015 06:00 AM
  2. JerseySal's Avatar
    The term "flagship" is subjective.
    06-22-2015 07:29 AM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The same kind of people who still buy Google Nexus devices. MS really should sell a high-end flagship, unlocked with every band imaginable, so people can take it to any network they want.
    A Nexus is a known commodity and you can buy it almost at a 7-11. A high-end Windows Phone does not enjoy that kind of brand awareness.
    Jazmac, aximtreo and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-22-2015 08:13 AM
  4. tohoshinki's Avatar
    Can someone explain what happens if/when Microsoft writes-off the Nokia Division Purchase? From what I understand it means NDS lost money so they have to pay for the purchase with their cash stockpile?

    Does this mean they're going to shutter Nokia Devices Division? Everyone keeps talking about a write off but no one seems to know exactly what that means for the divison.
    JamesAD60 likes this.
    06-22-2015 08:40 AM
  5. Dave47's Avatar
    The 640 is a great example of the best bang for your buck, low end market and yet great. Can't compare to flagships that are 6 times more expensive, yet its not supposed to.
    One might ask is a flagship 6 times "better"? Best answer I guess is: "it depends".
    06-22-2015 09:41 AM
  6. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    A 640XL is no flagship by anyone's standards but it sure is tempting. Especially the one with all the LTE bands and dual sim capability, for whatever reason they think only people in Hong Kong or China want those.

    I'm not sure what a flagship is going to add beyond that other than maybe a better screen, better camera, more onboard storage. And I agree, it will definitely be a question of whether those additions are worth the higher cost.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    06-22-2015 09:59 AM
  7. mmcpher's Avatar
    Another dependably dumb article from the general tech press. A sort of "1+2 = the sky is made of marshmallow" story. Microsoft undergoes a reorganization. If the new team has a realistic understanding of the current device market, all the better. That would not prevent them from seizing an opportunity to increase their share. Any review of the market over the last 10 years would show periods of stasis then marked by wild change. Maybe MS has figured the way to increase share is not simply to manufacture a numbers and masses of devices that would translate into a more competitive place, without creating the demand for such devices.

    ​ The German magazine article on the Surface line is an interesting potential parallel. MS pours a lot of capital in making a device that accentuates the possibilities of its software and services (to me the Surface was always the best way to experience the otherwise lamentable Windows 8). Once the OEM's had howled themselves out in protest, they began to follow after the Surface lead and there are now a great array of hybrid devices and even Surface-inspired netbooks, all, of course, packing Windows. So it makes sense that Microsoft will attempt a similar thing with a flagship phone, which would demonstrate the potential and capabilities of Windows Mobile, particularly within an integrated constellation of Windows devices, which could cause other manufactures to take notice and follow suit. This could happen even if the flagship doesn't reach mass acceptance on its own. The bar is raised, the way forward laid down, and people like me get our flagship. If at the end of the market day, Microsoft reorients itself back toward being software first, so be it. As much as I like the Surface line, I am just as intrigued by the new Dell netbooks because they look like great hardware design running Windows. Win-Win. Even if it is Dell-Win. Or Asus-Win. Or HTC-Win.

    The author also cites to recent upgrades to OneNote and states, "Whats worth noting is that the update has rolled out to the iPhone and iPad clients, before any other platform, including Microsoft". Is the author aware that Windows 10 and Windows Mobile is not yet out in general release? So how could Microsoft first release the OneNote update for an operating system that does not yet exist in the market? And is he aware that there has, in fact, been an update to OneNote available in the Windows Beta Store? ​​​
    MaxyBley and rhapdog like this.
    06-22-2015 10:21 AM
  8. bo_woods's Avatar
    I hope Surface and what im sure is to become Surface Phone is here to stay...

    The Surface in my eyes has always been the best way to experience Windows...

    I want them to keep it forever. And not ditch it once the market is juicy, because trust me Surface has its supporters and so will Surface Phone

    There would be some upset people if MS just throws it away once the market is juicy, but I doubt they will, because as long as Windows grows, there will always need to be a reference device to take full advantage of every ability that windows has
    Dadstar0410 likes this.
    06-22-2015 10:41 AM
  9. tgp's Avatar
    The same kind of people who still buy Google Nexus devices. MS really should sell a high-end flagship, unlocked with every band imaginable, so people can take it to any network they want.
    To add to the comments that others have made on this, the Google Nexus devices also have the advantage of a popular, well known OS over a theoretical high-end flagship running WP.
    Laura Knotek and arjunan like this.
    06-22-2015 12:05 PM
  10. Talderon's Avatar
    I don't understand how anyone thought that they would NOT make flagship phones. The acquisition of Nokia gave Microsoft that ability and they will monetize it as much as they can.

    The business logic for them to keep making their own devices is very sound and smart.

    1. They get to set the bar for hardware on mobile devices on all levels
    2. They keep the competition innovating to come up with new features and ways to give their handsets an advantage over the Lumia's
    3. With the impact the Lumia's have on the Windows Mobile landscape, they will constantly be the bar any other manufacture will be measured against

    I am sure there are more, but each of these alone will give Microsoft the ability to control the hardware standards that others have to meet or exceed. NOT capitalizing on this would make their investment into buying the Nokia Devices Division a total waste.
    fiveaces01, libra89 and mmcpher like this.
    06-22-2015 12:56 PM
  11. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Windows is not Microsoft's #1 revenue generator, this transition had to be made as the battle is no longer with hardware but with Software. On that note, Microsoft is fighting on two fronts Windows Phone as software and applications on every platform that makes viable sense (fiscal sense and growth opportunities). It's more than evident to see where they are focusing their efforts, hence why the author believes that they may be focusing on low end / mid range hardware. As hardware is not the focus, however here is the conundrum for most people as if hardware is not the focus where does that leave the Surface?

    They need to understand its a showcase piece, a metaphorical boot to kick start the OEMs who had become content in spewing out bog standard designs year on year.

    If they want OEM's to innovate in the phone space like they have started doing in the PC space after the Surface was bought to mass market then they are certainly going to need some cutting edge flagship phones to showcase the o/s right?

    Partially correct, the OEM's are content in spewing out boring designs year on year that runs Android not Windows and for a time that was Windows Mobile.

    However the key underlining fact is that in the desktop space Windows reigns supreme whereas in the phone arena it's the tortured jester that's fed nothing but stale crackers. Plus the Phone O/S and desktop O/S are on not the same thing despite being similar in the name, UX and underlying core which is another thing some find difficult to grasp.

    Apple has OSX and ios for it's tablets and phones, Google has Chrome O/S and Android for its tablets and phones.

    See the pattern?

    There is no clear connection (in terms of UX) between the desktop O/S and mobile O/S so people don't naturally presume they will be able to run the desktop applications on their phones or mobile devices.

    For Microsoft it would have been Windows (for laptops & desktop PCs with the start menu of Windows 10), (wrongly named) Windows RT for Tablet and Phones.

    If they where going to stick as a name RT, in my opinion they should have have just called it it Windows, RT for tablets and phones [which would be still be technically correct as both phone and tablets ran {past tense as the Tablet o/s has been currently killed off} a variant of the Windows Run Time]. With the UX of Windows phone running on tablets but adjusted to be more touch centric - so no desktop or control panel or fiddly tiny UI elements.

    BUT the Tablet o/s was a mess as it was not ready for prime time combined with the lack of touch centric office suite which is why it never picked up pace with the general consumers.

    Anyway, there is really no point speculating and depressing yourself into a bottomless pit as there are only under 4 months to go until IFA. If no flagship is released with Windows 10 Mobile than get out your pitch forks and torches. Unless Microsoft themselves announce they have cancelled the plans for a flagship or flagships themselves (I doubt they would as they would unleash billions of angry locusts upon themselves ). As they have stated they are in the works and all the leaks have pointed to the fact (the clearest demo is seen in the continumm demo where a prototype is used).

    Link Below:

    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-22-2015 02:42 PM
  12. bo_woods's Avatar
    This whole dreams about a "Surface Phone" sounds really dumb. Surface is just starting to be popular. And it is almost unknown in many countries.

    Also, the argument that high end Lumias will always be under the budget shadow of the Lumia name is also not true. People mistake my 830 for a 1020 or a 930 most of the time.
    Surface Phone doesn't need to be known all over every country. It would be a high end phone, and many countries where the Surface is unknown, just like where Apple devices don't sell much, are the countries where premium devices aren't even the best sellers. Those are usually the countries where 535's and 520's are popular because they are affordable.
    The point of Surface Phone just like any Apple product wouldn't even be to be in the hands of everyone across the globe, it would be once again just like an Apple product, a premium slice of hardware sold for a premium price and in the hands of people who want the most premium Windows experience. The flagship doesn't need to be Lumia because either way in the countries where expensive products sell the best, like the united states, Surface and Lumina are both somewhat unknown ....
    except for the fact that Surface is growing and becoming a more popular premium brand, while Lumina is pretty much in 2015 only making budget phones and known for that... No flagships are currently left in production... 920 all the way up to the 1520 are EOL.

    So clearly Lumina is great in many countries and sells well as far as budget phones go, but is unknown as a premium brand in America

    While Surface is unknown across the globe in affordability buying markets ( which is exactly what is expected), while growing in markets where Surface actually matters

    I don't even think MS wants to do a plethora of cheap devices... They want OEM'S to be doing that, spreading windows and MS services all over the globe... Surface Phone just like Surface would be a reference device, showing off just how great Windows can be on a device.

    Lumina is and until death will most likely be the brand growing out its web of phones hitting different price points around the globe

    Surface Phone being a thing wont affect that because at the end of the day any flagship released under Lumina wont sell either, because it wont sell too much in the "affordability markets", and believe me it is definitely tainted by all the budget devices and wont even be looked at in the U.S, not sure about places like the U.K..especially with that hideous numbering scheme... I dont care how clever it is, it is way too unappealing and unfriendly to newcomers...

    Surface Phone once aging will make the MS ecosystem clean... leave Lumina to do what has and will be the best at doing, spreading windows in the form of affordability..

    Surface, and Surface Phone will be the up most premium and excellent devices running Windows, made by Microsoft to get these OEM's making some good stuff... OEM's will be the ones filling everything else in between.... they will be the ones spreading Windows around the world, and Microsoft will be the ones making arguably the best devices, keeping the bar set high, selling decently in "premium markets", and leaving the affordability markets to the OEM's... as long as every market is saturated with windows, Microsoft is happy...

    I strongly believe that once MS either has more OEM's on board, has Nokia making budget devices around the world running Windows again, or san place Lumina in the hands of someone else who will do so, then they will flatly let Lumina go, and worry about making the best software, services, and hardware for each platform that sets the bar high up and keeps OEM's on their feet making some damn good innovations..

    Just my long opinions on the matter :)

    And OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE GOIN TO MISTAKE YOUR 830 FOR A FLAGSHIP!! LOL
    That Phone is a BEAUTY and nothing about its external says budget.... Its design is completely what you'd expect from a flagship Lumia... it has an large display, aluminum rim, and a shiny camera bump for pete's sake...

    And sorry for all the "Lumina" throughout my paragraph, autocorrect keep changing Lumia into Lumina, and I'm not about to keep changing it back everytime.... its really annoying tho
    06-22-2015 03:45 PM
  13. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Microsoft Demotes Lumia Smartphones As iOS Takes Priority - Forbes <<<link sanitized>>>

    Interesting perspective on the impact of the recent staffing decisions in Redmond. Obviously one man's opinion and I'm being entirely tongue-in-cheek, but certainly not impossible. The most noteworthy quote from the article:

    "With the changes above, Im expecting the Lumia hardware teams to focus on low- and mid-range handsets, but the goal will be on bringing consumers into Microsofts cloud-services rather than trying to fight Android and iOS on marketshare."

    ...and he tosses a few other daggers into the souls of all of the noble Windows Phone supporters, stomping on a few ponies along the way. Give it a quick read (it's not long) and feel free to offer up your interpretation of the reorganization and whether it could mean the end of high end wp devices. Or you can just hurl some random insults my way. Or both. Or neither.
    I'm not going to click on stuff like this.

    Here's an internet problem.

    "OMG this article is so <insert negative adjective>. Quick, everyone click this link so we can discuss it."

    Spreading links to disagreeable BS is like being a carrier. Now you are spreading the stupidity infection. @OP - you now need some antibiotics. STAT.

    Why drive traffic to something that deserves to just quietly die without a eulogy?
    rhapdog, a5cent and xibartx like this.
    06-22-2015 04:00 PM
  14. B Hammer's Avatar
    Like many others on here I share the opinion that Microsoft is not abandoning us. I have hope that we are about to see a proliferation of Microsoft products. I am shocked, but not surprised, at all the negativity on here.

    After the Build conference, are so many so quick to start on this bandwagon of despair and misery? Step back from the precipice you are leaning over and take a deep breath; you are looking at what is directly in front of you, not what is on the horizon. And when all you see is the edge of a cliff, you will always be thinking of jumping off.

    The horizon that so many are ignoring (or have yet to understand) is Microsoft's strategy of gaining customers through two initiatives: 1) the low-end and mid-range market for new smartphone adopters and 2) using their services to convert all customers, including those in the high-end. If you would like a very well-written and easily understandable discussion on this, please read the following:

    Part 1: Highs and Lows Part I: Are Low-End Windows Phones Hurting Microsoft's Smartphone Brand? | Windows Central
    Part 2: Highs and Lows Part II: Microsoft's smartphone strategy and the seeds of success | Windows Central
    Part 3: Highs and Lows Part III: Microsoft's Smartphone Strategy - Rules of Engagement, Business Unusual | Windows Central
    Part 4: Highs and Lows Part IV: Microsoft's Smartphone Strategy; Rules of Engagement, There's an App for That | Windows Central

    Some of you may be thinking, "That is biased writing and Windows Central is always talking positivity about Microsoft's future!" Fine, here is a recent article from ArsTechnica that proves Jason Ward's point:

    You win, Microsoft: How I accidentally went back to Microsoft Word | Ars Technica

    TL;DR, the crux of the article is that a staff member of ArsTechnica, after having gone away from Office products (and Microsoft products as a result of that), has now come back to using Office and is also considering other Microsoft products. Here is a quote from the article:

    "The new 'let's publish our applications in places where users are actually going' Microsoft is easier to live with and, paradoxically, has gotten me to buy further into the Microsoft ecosystem than I ever would have done otherwise" (Cunnginham, June 20, 2015).

    Wow! Seriously? Can Microsoft's strategy really work? Jason Ward's articles on this discussion aren't just propaganda being pushed by Microsoft?

    I understand that your frustration is driving your despair, but you have to be patient. Yeah, yeah, we have all been patient for years. Many of us have been patient since Windows Phone 7. I get it. Realize, though, that Apple and Google have had a head start of years over Microsoft. They started the battle running down hill; Microsoft is having to run up hill pushing boulders. This is the great thing about that, though--business and consumers have had that time to use Apple and Google products and as they come back they realize how great Microsoft's products actually are (e.g. Open Office, iPad for work, etc.). I've seen it and I am sure if you are willing to look you will too.

    Honestly, if Microsoft wasn't that important would the news media still talk about it? On websites like ArsTechnica and Wired where the bias is strongly against Microsoft I have seen a shift away from extremely negative to less negative. More importantly, though, are the comments by readers. People actually defend Microsoft in the comments and it is seen as acceptable. A year ago, that wasn't the case.

    I could go on, but I won't. So, look down that edge and jump if you must. You will find Apple and Google waiting at the bottom for you. As for me, I will continue to look at the horizon and see the beauty before me and appreciate what is coming.
    06-22-2015 04:02 PM
  15. rhapdog's Avatar
    Another mule. smh..Ewan Spence is FOS. Look up FOS in the dictionary and you'll see his face.
    Haha... FOS.... That's fructooligosaccharide, and it's not very good for you.
    06-22-2015 04:48 PM
  16. rhapdog's Avatar
    Another mule. smh..Ewan Spence is FOS. Look up FOS in the dictionary and you'll see his face.
    Haha... FOS.... That's fructooligosaccharide, and it's not very good for you.
    06-22-2015 04:48 PM
  17. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    I have yet to see a smartphone in the shops that is better than the 930. Even the Galaxy S6 is rubbish.
    06-22-2015 05:21 PM
  18. Iain_S's Avatar
    Nokia will license their name for others to make devices if they choose. Nokia themselves will not be making the phones.
    Laura Knotek and TechFreak1 like this.
    06-22-2015 06:57 PM
  19. ScrubbyXD's Avatar
    Click bait article. I'm surprised it wasn't in list form.....though it did have the "One neat trick" feel in parts.
    06-22-2015 06:57 PM
  20. DJCBS's Avatar
    Nokia will license their name for others to make devices if they choose. Nokia themselves will not be making the phones.
    This is completely incorrect.
    Nokia won't be MANUFACTURING the phones. But the phones WILL be made by Nokia. Nokia will design them inside and out, Nokia picks what kind of tech goes into the phones etc. An OEM partner then gets the license to manufacture that phone and distribute it, paying a royalty to Nokia and keeping the rest to itself. That's where the "licening" part comes from.

    It's the exact same business model used in the book market. And author writes the book and decides what goes into it etc. Then a publisher gets the rights to publish and market that book and the author gets paid in royalties.
    06-22-2015 08:39 PM
  21. RTGent's Avatar
    I already have a flagship: my forever-flagship 1020.
    bradm77 likes this.
    06-22-2015 08:47 PM
  22. JamesDax's Avatar
    There will be a Windows 10 Mobile flagship.

    'nuff said.
    06-22-2015 08:53 PM
  23. worldspy99's Avatar
    There is a difference, though. If I want a Nexus 6, I can buy it from a carrier store. I don't have to buy it from Google.

    Attachment 106884
    This wasn't the case with the prior versions, plus the carrier versions come with bloatware - like their custom startup screens which I don't care about and ergo the case for buying it from the Google Store directly.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-22-2015 11:34 PM
  24. fdalbor's Avatar
    A lot of the negative Microsoft has brought on itself. When they put more effort into Android and IOS versions of their apps, when they rush to perfect the desktop version of W10 while the mobile version is treated like the red headed stepchild, when they push out low end phones by the gross and yet can't produce even one high end phone. Yea I can see why their is a lot of negative. I gave up on WP as my only smartphone some time ago. I decided I could and would have both, so if they fail it won't be a big deal. It will be Microsoft's lost, not mine. Just my feeling on the matter, for better or for worst.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-23-2015 08:31 AM
  25. Talderon's Avatar
    This is completely incorrect.
    Nokia won't be MANUFACTURING the phones. But the phones WILL be made by Nokia. Nokia will design them inside and out, Nokia picks what kind of tech goes into the phones etc. An OEM partner then gets the license to manufacture that phone and distribute it, paying a royalty to Nokia and keeping the rest to itself. That's where the "licening" part comes from.

    It's the exact same business model used in the book market. And author writes the book and decides what goes into it etc. Then a publisher gets the rights to publish and market that book and the author gets paid in royalties.
    Sorry man, but this is also incorrect.

    Microsoft bought the entire Nokia Handset and Devices division. This included all of the design, testing and manufacturing. This includes all of the factories and the workers of those factories. Microsoft, NOT Nokia will be designing, testing and manufacturing their devices.

    I worked at MS during the time of this acquisition and integration of the former Nokia employees and their business.
    Laura Knotek, Iain_S and sleeve22 like this.
    06-23-2015 09:23 AM
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