07-16-2015 01:19 AM
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  1. Ten Four's Avatar
    Here's my positive take on what should happen moving forward based on Nadella's vision. Stop trying to push phones out via carriers and sell them all direct or via Microsoft stores, unlocked, and pre-loaded with only the best MS apps. Offer them with a kick-*** service deal package deal for those that want it--probably partner with T-Mobile on this since they are in Bellevue. In the USA sell two variants (regular and XL) for each market identified by Nadella: low end, business, flagship. Establish and/or market like crazy some unique features that work seamlessly with Surface devices and maybe high-end similar devices using Windows 10: Continuum, tethering, maybe something with Hololens. Personally, I think it is a mistake for everyone to make only large phones, and I think there is a large market for a mini-flagship that is just as powerful with a great camera, luxurious build, etc. I think that would have a huge appeal to the business market, where most people work on desktops and laptops all day and have no need to carry around a tablet-sized phone. Business people want something that keeps them in touch, while the productivity stuff is mostly done on the bigger devices. Emphasize strong points that beat the competition and appeal to business like security, battery life, durability (make them all waterproof). Make wireless charging and some sort of payment system standard and very seamless. Standardize these features across the entire line so that Windows phones get known to be secure, rugged, have great cameras, wireless charging, seamless payments, etc. Sure, the high-end phones will be even better, but do what Apple does and make a Microsoft experience that is palpable across the line.
    RumoredNow, Mach_E and ohgood like this.
    07-10-2015 09:28 AM
  2. Eustis99's Avatar
    I'm still reading about this? They never said they will kill off the o.s in two years. He said they expect to make their own phones for at least two years. If they decide not to, the o.s will still go on but with other manufactures developing. Obviously if they do sell well, they'll continue developing their own.
    07-10-2015 09:32 AM
  3. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Here's my positive take on what should happen moving forward based on Nadella's vision. Stop trying to push phones out via carriers and sell them all direct or via Microsoft stores, unlocked, and pre-loaded with only the best MS apps. Offer them with a kick-*** service deal package deal for those that want it--probably partner with T-Mobile on this since they are in Bellevue. In the USA sell two variants (regular and XL) for each market identified by Nadella: low end, business, flagship. Establish and/or market like crazy some unique features that work seamlessly with Surface devices and maybe high-end similar devices using Windows 10: Continuum, tethering, maybe something with Hololens. Personally, I think it is a mistake for everyone to make only large phones, and I think there is a large market for a mini-flagship that is just as powerful with a great camera, luxurious build, etc. I think that would have a huge appeal to the business market, where most people work on desktops and laptops all day and have no need to carry around a tablet-sized phone. Business people want something that keeps them in touch, while the productivity stuff is mostly done on the bigger devices. Emphasize strong points that beat the competition and appeal to business like security, battery life, durability (make them all waterproof). Make wireless charging and some sort of payment system standard and very seamless. Standardize these features across the entire line so that Windows phones get known to be secure, rugged, have great cameras, wireless charging, seamless payments, etc. Sure, the high-end phones will be even better, but do what Apple does and make a Microsoft experience that is palpable across the line.
    This sounds like the very worst option. I don't want to have to travel 90 minutes to a MS Store to get a phone, nor do I want to have to order a phone and wait on shipping. I don't want to throw $600 up-front for a phone. I don't want my phone to come cluttered with a bunch of garbage apps I won't use--it's bad enough I can't uninstall things like the Podcast and Video apps I don't use but have to see in my app list anyway. There are probably 8 or so apps like that. I'd rather just stop upgrading than experience this hell.
    jlangner likes this.
    07-10-2015 09:54 AM
  4. wpfan86's Avatar
    This sounds like the very worst option. I don't want to have to travel 90 minutes to a MS Store to get a phone, nor do I want to have to order a phone and wait on shipping. I don't want to throw $600 up-front for a phone. I don't want my phone to come cluttered with a bunch of garbage apps I won't use--it's bad enough I can't uninstall things like the Podcast and Video apps I don't use but have to see in my app list anyway. There are probably 8 or so apps like that. I'd rather just stop upgrading than experience this hell.
    For whatever it's worth, the days of paying only $100 or $200 for a high end phone in exchange for signing a two year contract are just about over. Your choices are going to be pay $600 up front to own the phone outright or lease the phone while making monthly payments on it and not truly owning it until it's paid off (which will ultimately be the same $600 or so that you didn't want to pay up front). Carriers and retailers are getting out of the phone subsidizing business.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-10-2015 10:06 AM
  5. jlangner's Avatar
    For whatever it's worth, the days of paying only $100 or $200 for a high end phone in exchange for signing a two year contract are just about over. Your choices are going to be pay $600 up front to own the phone outright or lease the phone while making monthly payments on it and not truly owning it until it's paid off (which will ultimately be the same $600 or so that you didn't want to pay up front). Carriers and retailers are getting out of the phone subsidizing business.
    True but if you have something like "Jump" and start paying the $20+/month for the phone and swap phones every 6-12 months you may never "own" but you always have latest. If always swapping for latest, no point of owning and you yes you still paid the $600 over 2 years but at least you got up to 2-4 new phones for it :)
    07-10-2015 10:42 AM
  6. jefbeard911's Avatar
    No if someone else bought them, they would've gone after the patents and destroyed the rest of the company.
    Well, dead is dead. It doesn't matter you get there..

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    07-10-2015 10:43 AM
  7. jefbeard911's Avatar
    As long as Windows is king in Desktop, Windows Phone/Mobile will always be in a better position than BlackBerry or WebOS was when they were tailing off. Especially once Win10 rolls out.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    Time will tell. Let's revisit this in a year.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    07-10-2015 10:45 AM
  8. Kevin Hill2's Avatar
    The Sky is falling, The Sky is Falling. I will admit that was just about the dumbest thing you could come out and say on the day you are laying off workers in your phone devision, Windows phone has no love when it comes to other Tech sites and you all just panic like a bunch of Mice being chased by a cat, if you have been keeping up with all the Windows 10 news and releases you would know that all Windows 10 app's , PC, Tablet and phone will run on all platforms, What a consept, Think about it, I know you will figure it out. And he did not say that after the 2 years they would stop making Windows phones., and really if you are that jumpy and flakey about using a Windows phone I think us that love it and are looking forward to the future of the OS are better off that you are leaving, you can't say you love something and trash it in the same breath. I'm sure a new Dooms Day senareo will come along to get your attention soon.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-10-2015 10:45 AM
  9. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    This sounds like the very worst option. I don't want to have to travel 90 minutes to a MS Store to get a phone, nor do I want to have to order a phone and wait on shipping. I don't want to throw $600 up-front for a phone. I don't want my phone to come cluttered with a bunch of garbage apps I won't use--it's bad enough I can't uninstall things like the Podcast and Video apps I don't use but have to see in my app list anyway. There are probably 8 or so apps like that. I'd rather just stop upgrading than experience this hell.
    You don't want to have to wait one day for overnight shipping of your phone. You want MS to flesh out and establish a fluid identity and user experience for their smartphone line but you don't want to have to go through their store. You want MS to absorb more of the cost and responsibility but don't want to pay retail for a phone.

    With all due respect it sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
    07-10-2015 10:49 AM
  10. jefbeard911's Avatar
    ... I don't want to throw $600 up-front for a phone.l.
    In the REAL world , that is in just about every other country than the nonsenseacle, carrier-subsidised U.S, , we DO have to shell out $600 for a phone.

    Maybe having to pay real money for a new phone will make people understand phones arent free and that you really can live with a less than perfect phone for awhile.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    RumoredNow and Ten Four like this.
    07-10-2015 10:57 AM
  11. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    For whatever it's worth, the days of paying only $100 or $200 for a high end phone in exchange for signing a two year contract are just about over. Your choices are going to be pay $600 up front to own the phone outright or lease the phone while making monthly payments on it and not truly owning it until it's paid off (which will ultimately be the same $600 or so that you didn't want to pay up front). Carriers and retailers are getting out of the phone subsidizing business.
    It's not a direct comparison. Paying $600 at once just isn't the same thing. Yes, the price of the phone has been spread out, but it's come with a lower initial phone bill, so that's balanced out. Basically, phone prices went up and plan prices went down. When my family switched to AT&T's new shared plans, our bill went down a decent amount, but phones aren't typically done with 2-year agreements now. In those cases, once you get put on Next, your old and new bills are pretty much balanced, except the upfront cost of the phone has gone from the $200 down payment to paying just the tax on the full price of the phone (about $50). It's actually a bit CHEAPER now, overall.

    Regardless of that, the stories aren't quite the same. When you're paying monthly for the phone, it won't necessarily cost you that full $600. You can upgrade after 60% of the phone is paid off, or $360. That's still a lot better than $600. That's the setup for Verizon, and AT&T's setup is pretty similar. You have to trade the phone in if you don't pay it off, but as someone whose hasn't made an insurance claim on a phone in the 8+ years he's had a mobile phone of some kind, that doesn't bother me too much.

    You don't want to have to wait one day for overnight shipping of your phone. You want MS to flesh out and establish a fluid identity and user experience for their smartphone line but you don't want to have to go through their store. You want MS to absorb more of the cost and responsibility but don't want to pay retail for a phone.

    With all due respect it sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
    No, because I didn't say a single thing about what I want. I mean, throwing the one-liner at the end with no real defense, a defense based on MY words, not your own assumptions, doesn't make you right about a thing. What was suggested is having Microsoft severely decrease its devices' visibility in the smartphone space by stripping them out of carrier stores and other electronics retailers (like Best Buy or Target, who sell phone plans in-store now). So, the "identity" you're claiming I want is a complete farce. What makes you think I want Microsoft to recoil into its limited retail stores and a web site for phone sales?

    In the REAL world , that is in just about every other country than the nonsenseacle, carrier-subsidised U.S, , we DO have to shell out $600 for a phone.

    Maybe having to pay real money for a new phone will make people understand phones arent free and that you really can live with a less than perfect phone for awhile.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    The comical ignorance in this, it's too much. I can't help but love the judgmental, anti-American tone of this comment, and the wild assumptions about me behind it.
    07-10-2015 11:19 AM
  12. jefbeard911's Avatar
    don't read too much into these "tech sites", Windows Mobile is not dying(far from it).
    The Nokia stuff that happened yesterday was a given, MS only purchased them to stop them from being sold to someone else. Any smart person knew this write down was going to happen at some point in time.
    The layoffs although very unfortunate for the folk involved also needed to be done, that's what business is all about, streamline and profit.
    The devices themselves had to be cut back to a normasl amount of phones being delivered per year, nokia's releases were just stupid.
    MS are not killing off Windows Mobile, they are just streamlining the whole operation to what it should be, not how Nokia had it.
    Other OEM's are also developing Windows Mobile 10 devices and Microsoft are cutting back to give them breathing space, similar to what happens with the surface line.


    ... and as always do not believe everything you read on the internet.
    Agreed that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. But to be fair, there has been a lot of good reporting and analysis on many of them. Not every site critical of WP is out to get them.

    To be frank, id like to see more frank and critical reporting from Windows Central on this. Yeah, Dan wrote a good piece a few days ago but other than that WC has been silent (Forum banter doesn't count) on the possible implications. Microsoft has made a huge, company - altering change. Calling it a "restructuring" is sugar-coating it at best and naive at worst. This is still journalism and it should be addressed as such. Yes, its still too early to make any definitive calls but all possible scenarios should at least be covered.

    I personally don't think it's the end (meaning you can't buy one anymore) of WP but it will be a major shift in both available hardware, software updates and how Microsoft presents itself to the public. Going forward, expectations should be adjusted as Windows Phone / mobile becomes less and less a priority.

    Just my opinion...

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    ohgood likes this.
    07-10-2015 11:19 AM
  13. jefbeard911's Avatar
    The comical ignorance in this, it's too much. I can't help but love the judgmental, anti-American tone of this comment, and the wild assumptions about me behind it.
    Now who's using one-liners? Two actually.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    07-10-2015 11:25 AM
  14. Ten Four's Avatar
    What was suggested is having Microsoft severely decrease its devices' visibility in the smartphone space by stripping them out of carrier stores and other electronics retailers (like Best Buy or Target, who sell phone plans in-store now).
    No, there will be no decrease in visibility because they are invisible now. If I walk right now into my local AT&T corporate store I suspect there is not a single Windows phone on display, and if there is it will be a Lumia 635 in the back of the store in an obscure spot. There are none in BestBuy. WalMart only carried the 635 until recently and apparently they are getting the 640 but I haven't seen one yet, there might be a 635 or two in Target. In short, the carriers and retailers have done nothing for Windows phones, and there are many reports from people actively discouraged from purchasing when they ask to see a Windows phone in a carrier store--nothing could be worse than the current distribution scheme.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-10-2015 11:31 AM
  15. anon(5969054)'s Avatar
    Also I have to add the argument that Nadella's strategy doesn't seem to hold much ground. Either all OEMs are working in super super secret on windows 10 mobile phones or it is not working out at all.
    07-10-2015 11:31 AM
  16. Kodiak12's Avatar
    Tell that to the 7800 or so that have or will loose their jobs because of Ballmers stupid idea to acquire Nokia.!
    Since when is it a MS's responsibility to keep people employed? Do you really think that any business intends to lose money? Especially one held by stockholders like you and me? Nokia would have done this soon enough anyway.

    Besides... corporations do this all the time... gobble up other companies just to wipe 'em out.

    Welcome to capitalism.
    07-10-2015 11:59 AM
  17. Abrar ahamed's Avatar
    Just trying to connect the dots here, when they say that they are going to stop windows phone doesn't mean they actually close the phone division but they might be changing or building a new os from scratch and naming it ''xyz'' phone, besides I heard or read some posts that windows 10 will be the last windows os from Microsoft a few days back.
    "every setback has a major comeback".
    07-10-2015 12:22 PM
  18. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Now who's using one-liners? Two actually.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    Yeah, multiple sentences about your clear bias and unwillingness to engage in any intelligent discussion is the same thing as having someone else just wrapping up baseless claims with, "you want to have your cake and eat it too." They're totally the same. My statements were a direct response to the words aimed at me. Yours have just been insults, assumptions, and factually inaccurate statements.
    07-10-2015 03:01 PM
  19. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    "every setback has a major comeback".
    Tell that to SEGA, Atari, Nokia, and so on through existence.
    anon(5969054) likes this.
    07-10-2015 03:01 PM
  20. waazzupppp's Avatar
    Not to sound stupid, but who's to say that killing Windows Phone or Windows for Mobile isn't a spectacular move? Go with me on this one for just a second...

    Microsoft kills the 'mobile' platform in favor of putting a full version of Windows in your pocket. A fully functional, Intel based PC in your pocket. Forget 'almost compatible' or 'very similar' as they are stating now. Just go with a 100% full version of Windows 10 going forward. They come out with the Surface in four sizes:

    The Surface P1 is a 5" HD display device with LTE GSM radios in it for global use and AT&T/T-Mobile in the US. It also is available in the P1v with Verizon bands as well. The device is available off-contract from the Microsoft Store for $299 or with carrier payments/contract pricing as well. The P1 is also equipped with 2GB of RAM, 32GB of internal storage (you'll need the extra space for a full version of Windows) and a 10MP PureView camera. It also has a 5MP front cam with HD video for chatting via Skype or other services.

    The Surface T1 would be an 9" tablet with similar specs under the hood, but possibly increasing the RAM to 4GB and storage to 64GB. That would allow a nice price tag of $349 and a carrier version with LTE for around $399. The Surface Pro continues it's evolution as well coming out with more powerful models in a 12" (11.6") size that would have up to 16GB of RAM and 512GB of storage.

    Finally the Surface One, the desktop Windows box. This is actually a mini-pc setup, running full Windows 10 as well. The perfect compliment to your home entertainment system. It runs the full website of sites like Hulu, Netflix and other streaming services, so it isn't recognized as a 'mobile device' for restricted content. It also has a wireless track pad available and can work to stream your smaller Surface devices as well. By offloading the work from your mobile device (unlike Google Chromecast) you can enjoy higher quality streaming and full access to all of your favorite websites and apps on your big screen - without tying up your phone or having to leave it on a charger. The Surface One also plays all of your Xbox One titles and allows Miracast transmissions to other compatible devices in your home. It's the ultimate home entertainment solution.

    So, while 'dumping' Windows Phone may sound stupid on the surface, it might just be what MS needs to get things rolling again. They are one or two bad releases away from being a former tech giant. If they can claw back into the game by offering services like OneDrive, Skype and Outlook to Android users, and then release some products that work with the devices they have... The slowly bring the hardware back into play (remember the first Surface and their 'not so great' sales - or the first Xbox - or the Zune...) and get it to people via the services that they already use, it will be a HUGE hit, no a real home run for the company.

    Dumping a dying phone division (yes, Nokia was dying BEFORE the Windows Phone decision) to move the entire company forward... That's ballsy, but exactly what they need to do to get Windows back on top.

    That's just my stupid opinion though...
    07-10-2015 04:33 PM
  21. waazzupppp's Avatar
    Oh man... You need to use better examples...

    SEGA is now making loads of cash off mobile gaming... Sonic is huge across all the platforms. Atari is doing the same - porting their classic ROM's to mobile gaming. Again, saved by the fact they made the move to mobile. Nokia, well this should be interesting. Licensing Android devices to other manufacturers... It's what originally made HTC so amazing - I remember seeing Verizon branded smartphones back in the day made by HTC - even before I knew HTC. If Nokia pulls that off, they will be back with a vengeance! That quality with an open label system? Gorgeous...

    I do get what you are saying though. These companies usually get swallowed up or just go away. I have a feeling that if Nintendo doesn't go mobile soon, they will be on the end of a buyout. Same thing with HTC and BlackBerry. I'd even go as far as to say that even companies like LG might exit the mobile space to save themselves long term cash losses. If you aren't positioned to make cash after the device sells (Apple, Samsung, ETC) then you probably won't make it for much longer.
    07-10-2015 04:40 PM
  22. ShaneRay's Avatar
    Ya know, it's great to see optimism sticking around with some in the face of events this week. That's a sincere comment as I've been looking for the silver lining as well. But...

    There isn't.

    Try to take a few moments and back away from the Windows Phone fan and enthusiast mindset most of us have and, instead, consider everything we know now from a corporate perspective. And, that perspective includes all the politics and doublespeak that naturally goes along with it. If someone does that, they'll see what MS is leading up to.

    I read someone asking why they just don't "pull the band-aid off" now, and quickly, if they intend to exit the market completely. They can't. That's not how it's done. Have you ever seen a business go from operating and hopeful to bankrupt and dead overnight? No. Sure there have been exceptions in extreme economic circumstances in the past (some within the last decade), but there is normally an "orderly" process of which there are road signs. That's what we're seeing now. This process keeps a little hope in the minds of the optimistic and a little doubt in the minds of the doomsayers. And it's all designed to do one thing, and one thing only: protect the share price. And, by extension, the investors.

    All that said, in my opinion (of which I'm sure many will disagree. Feel free) over the next 48 months we'll see little things start to happen with Windows Phone (hardware/software). They aren't going to be good. But, no one thing is going to cause a meltdown. Sooner than we'd like, however, we'll reach a point at which everything needs to be added up and reconciled. When that's done, we'll be left with one less player in the mobile space.

    This is it. Windows Phone has failed in the market place. All that's left for Microsoft to do is make an orderly retreat. That began this week.

    I'll gladly come back to this thread in 2-4 years and admit that I was wrong. I hope I can.

    I don't think I'll need to.
    Spectrum90 and ohgood like this.
    07-10-2015 04:58 PM
  23. donkiluminate's Avatar
    To me the problem isn't what Microsoft intends to do with the platform or if they are going to make a comeback for the ages. It's that it's giving off the appearance they are getting out of the business. That's not going to help sales.

    I can be madly in love with my wife but I start hanging out at the local Gay bar(is that ok to say these days?) and tell my friends and family I'm moving out in two years people are going to question my commitment to my wife.
    Laura Knotek and Kevin Rush like this.
    07-10-2015 05:09 PM
  24. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    Ya know, it's great to see optimism sticking around with some in the face of events this week. That's a sincere comment as I've been looking for the silver lining as well. But...

    There isn't.

    Try to take a few moments and back away from the Windows Phone fan and enthusiast mindset most of us have and, instead, consider everything we know now from a corporate perspective. And, that perspective includes all the politics and doublespeak that naturally goes along with it. If someone does that, they'll see what MS is leading up to.

    I read someone asking why they just don't "pull the band-aid off" now, and quickly, if they intend to exit the market completely. They can't. That's not how it's done. Have you ever seen a business go from operating and hopeful to bankrupt and dead overnight? No. Sure there have been exceptions in extreme economic circumstances in the past (some within the last decade), but there is normally an "orderly" process of which there are road signs. That's what we're seeing now. This process keeps a little hope in the minds of the optimistic and a little doubt in the minds of the doomsayers. And it's all designed to do one thing, and one thing only: protect the share price. And, by extension, the investors.

    All that said, in my opinion (of which I'm sure many will disagree. Feel free) over the next 48 months we'll see little things start to happen with Windows Phone (hardware/software). They aren't going to be good. But, no one thing is going to cause a meltdown. Sooner than we'd like, however, we'll reach a point at which everything needs to be added up and reconciled. When that's done, we'll be left with one less player in the mobile space.

    This is it. Windows Phone has failed in the market place. All that's left for Microsoft to do is make an orderly retreat. That began this week.

    I'll gladly come back to this thread in 2-4 years and admit that I was wrong. I hope I can.

    I don't think I'll need to.
    I'd agree if smartphones were Microsoft's only endeavor. They can pull the plug on WP at anytime and absorb the loss.
    07-10-2015 05:15 PM
  25. triageatdawn's Avatar
    It's far from over, pal. Let's see if the new strategy works and avoid jumping to premature conclusions. It's not the end of the world for crying out loud.
    RumoredNow and Kevin Rush like this.
    07-10-2015 05:49 PM
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