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08-21-2015 06:31 PM
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  1. KentAshfield's Avatar
    Hello everyone! I wanted to get a discussion started about Windows 10 Mobile in light of Dan Rubino's statement in his Build 10166 review:
    "at this stage Windows 10 Mobile is mostly feature locked"

    This got quite a bit of attention in the comments, but I think it would be helpful for the community to have a place to put forth logical arguments and discussions about our opinions on this. So here is the question:

    If Windows 10 Mobile only receives bug fixes and polish from now until the general release, will you upgrade from 8.1 at the time of release?
    For now, let's exclude discussion of buying new flagship lumias (and therefore, continuum for phones)

    My humble opinion follows, but you don't need to read it as it is just a personal response to the question:

    I think it is highly beneficial to look back to the 8->8.1 upgrade to examine why anyone would update a phone in the first place. For me, and I assume, many others, the 8.1 update was an obvious choice; there were so many new features and improvements that even though I had a few very minor pet peeves, features like Cortana, Action Center, and tile transparency to vastly outweighed my concerns, leading me to run the DP as soon as I could. I mean, this update was so badly wanted by the VZW WP community that there was discussion of getting the FCC involved (or even pursuing a class action lawsuit!) to pressure Big Red into pushing out the update. So why were people so keen on getting the 8.1 update? Something tells me there was more to it than eye candy; there was so much additional functionality that made the OS popular among the WP community.

    So is this still the case with Windows 10 Mobile? What, at the end of the day, do you really gain by upgrading? And does that make it worth dealing with your pet peeves? If I were to take a crack at those questions, I would sadly come to the conclusion that there is currently no reason for me to upgrade assuming the OS receives no new features. That really bugs me because I am a huge WP / MSFT enthusiast. But what is the gain? Edge? Gif support? Don't get me wrong: I love the UI in 10, but we all know how transient novelties are. Eventually, I won't notice / care how my tiles fly into the start screen. And the few minor additions aren't enough to convince me to upgrade from 8.1, an OS that I don't have any issues with. I do have pet peeves with 10, though, such as lack of support for "Show artist on lock screen" and the way the date and time float higher on the lock screen then they did in 8.1. I know those are tiny concerns, but the philosophy stands: why would I upgrade to 10, which I have small issues with, from 8.1, which I am happy with? I don't see the gain today. But that is just me.

    So if Windows 10 Mobile really is feature locked, then I have difficulty seeing myself upgrading for any reason other than being on the forefront of what Microsoft is offering. Let's hope the Windows Mobile team has several exciting features to add in before the final release.
    angelblast1997 and sugardad like this.
    07-11-2015 06:01 PM
  2. xandros9's Avatar
    I'll upgrade because it fixes a lot of small issues I have. Music is great, the toggles are nice, etc.

    And its set for more updates in the future anyway. Although I might want a bit to hop on.
    07-11-2015 06:08 PM
  3. 2uiam's Avatar
    What do you win by not upgrading?
    Al4video, Dadstar0410 and MikeSo like this.
    07-11-2015 06:14 PM
  4. fatclue_98's Avatar
    For what it's worth, I'm staying on 8.1 for the time being. I can't get past the new keyboard and if I can't have USB-OTG or Continuum yet, I might as well just get a new device when they come out. A wonderful feature I used to enjoy immensely from my Pre2/Pre3 days was the MAP bluetooth profile and it's finally on 8.1. Now I don't have to fumble around with my phone and tablet just to answer a text; I just do it all from my tablet.
    KentAshfield likes this.
    07-11-2015 06:15 PM
  5. KentAshfield's Avatar
    What do you win by not upgrading?
    I would argue that I lose by "upgrading" right when 10 hits. I have no issues with 8.1 as it stands. I have a few small problems with 10. So what is the selling point for Windows 10 Mobile? I do not mean this rhetorically: if you have a reason, let me know, and it very well may reverse my opinion entirely. I am very open-minded about this and consent that I may be overlooking some nice features of Windows 10 Mobile in my assessment.
    MikeSo likes this.
    07-11-2015 06:30 PM
  6. afgzee's Avatar
    If I can get update 2 for wp 8.1 on my 930 I will be happy for some time. Just not feeling win10 on mobile
    07-11-2015 06:31 PM
  7. dukrem's Avatar
    Cortana alpha is still not available on W10, whereas she is available on 8.1 in those affected countries.
    07-11-2015 06:44 PM
  8. YashHarf's Avatar
    In my opinion , if this build is already feature locked , MS won't be able to convince Android/iOS users to switch.. I am expecting more features like live lock screen in future builds.. I hope MS will deliver it .. But there is no reason to sticking with WP8/8.1 .. Even if there are no more features, I'll be using W10M itself ... Android and iOS is not in my list anyways
    07-11-2015 06:56 PM
  9. DCTF's Avatar
    A million times yes. I hated it when the occasional build has forced me to go back to 8.1 for a while (and it's remarkable how little that's happened during the Preview process, really). I was already eager for 8.1 to die by the time they let us into this scheme, but every time I had to use it I was reminded of all its shortcomings. It was a great OS once, for small-screen phones. The look and style of it was a good solution to the problems of the restrictions of old and low-end hardware like my original 620, but it looked terrible on 920 and 930. It's easy to forget now, but even the tweaks to the menus that make 8.1 relatively bearable now are late features that come from the design of 10TP.

    This one is great. I don't think it's necessarily final -- remember what happened between 8 and 8.1 for example, on both phones and desktop PCs -- but it's great now and I'll be happy with a tweaked version of this for a long time to come. If they want to come and give it a 10.1 overhaul at some point, they'll be welcome, but this is fine.

    - Much better style all round, and a better consistent design through the whole system
    - Much better personalisation of the desktop
    - Much better use of high-res screens
    - System apps, especially email and music, hugely improved. Immediately better looks in my 3rd-party apps that have shifted to the W10 design standards
    - A browser that doesn't consistently crash on some of my favourite sites if there's too much info in an article (bye bye IE)

    Sure, many of the things that spring to mind first are aesthetic ones, but a smartphone is largely a visual machine. It's very important that there's a measure of joy to all the little animations and transitions, and I think WM10 has it spot on: not too flashy, not too basic. I get that quiet sense that every part of the phone feels good to use. This is a very sober, simple style which I think can last a long time before it'll look stale.
    07-11-2015 08:01 PM
  10. eds817's Avatar
    I've upgraded to the last several builds and kept going back to 8.1. Since this is my main phone there were just too many problems. Yesterday I saw that 10166 was available and today I did the upgrade and so far it's running very smooth and all core apps are working fine on my Lumia 635. I am extremely pleased. Lets hope it stays stable and each build just keeps getting better.

    UPDATE: So far my Gmail is not syncing. Last update was 23 hours ago. Also, apps still don't close when hitting the back arrow.
    Last edited by eds817; 07-12-2015 at 10:29 AM.
    angelblast1997 likes this.
    07-11-2015 08:17 PM
  11. 2uiam's Avatar
    I would argue that I lose by "upgrading" right when 10 hits. I have no issues with 8.1 as it stands. I have a few small problems with 10. So what is the selling point for Windows 10 Mobile? I do not mean this rhetorically: if you have a reason, let me know, and it very well may reverse my opinion entirely. I am very open-minded about this and consent that I may be overlooking some nice features of Windows 10 Mobile in my assessment.
    The OS is faster then in 8.1 already now in TP.
    Edge in 10 is also already faster then IE in 8.1
    Edge favorites/history will sync with desktop browser.
    Univeral apps that you might be missing out on.

    I am using L930

    What features would you like to see in Windows 10 mobile?
    07-12-2015 03:56 PM
  12. KentAshfield's Avatar
    The OS is faster then in 8.1 already now in TP.
    Edge in 10 is also already faster then IE in 8.1
    Edge favorites/history will sync with desktop browser.
    Univeral apps that you might be missing out on.

    I am using L930

    What features would you like to see in Windows 10 mobile?
    First, thanks for informing me about the speed. I have a 929 and a 928 with TP on the 928, which is somewhat laggy. Good to know it is running well on a 930. You are absolutely right about the universal apps; I did overlook that. However, I think that Universal Apps will improve the OS only after a fair amount of time has passed for devs to make interesting apps. I'm really thinking about the launch right now.

    In terms of what I am looking for, I would like to gain more control of windows 10. Settings to adjust the lock screen (because I don't like the new date and time layout) and better news and general integration of Cortana would be appreciated on my end.
    nycny likes this.
    07-12-2015 05:36 PM
  13. Cage Ata's Avatar
    - further improved action center
    - background downloads in action center
    - revamped app list. (It looks visually horrible when you swipe left from the start screen)
    - larger tile for screens 5" and up
    - interactive live tiles
    -transparent and/or blur in action center
    -more colour, that black throughout the os looks clean but blocky af
    -snap chat
    -usbg
    -more tile options
    -better keyboard
    -

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    07-12-2015 05:49 PM
  14. KentAshfield's Avatar
    - further improved action center
    - background downloads in action center
    - revamped app list. (It looks visually horrible when you swipe left from the start screen)
    - larger tile for screens 5" and up
    - interactive live tiles
    -transparent and/or blur in action center
    -more colour, that black throughout the os looks clean but blocky af
    -snap chat
    -usbg
    -more tile options
    -better keyboard
    -

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    if these features do not make the final release, will you install win 10 mobile on your daily driver?
    mary beth hale likes this.
    07-12-2015 06:00 PM
  15. Cage Ata's Avatar
    Yes, but I don't think anyone from android or ios will
    angelblast1997 and vicky geth like this.
    07-12-2015 06:07 PM
  16. HXD's Avatar
    I'll upgrade because it fixes a lot of small issues I have. Music is great, the toggles are nice, etc.

    And its set for more updates in the future anyway. Although I might want a bit to hop on.
    I laughed way too hard at that. Music is great? Yes, can't even get a song on replay. It stops at the end with an error. And the laggy ugly-looking toggles... I don't really know how you people see things...
    sweatshopking and akshaypn like this.
    07-12-2015 06:27 PM
  17. mmcpher's Avatar
    With speed, fluidity and battery life already faster than 8.1, this would be a no-brainer but for the continued lagging behind of the mail app, relative to 8.1. No dark theme, yet, and the one theme available is pale and pastel and is a soft, persistent eye-strainer. Email is so critical to my productivity, that it will make it a real tough choice. I like WM10 more and more, but am just hanging on with email. I usually take along my BB Passport when I have some important and mail-critical think going on.
    07-12-2015 06:39 PM
  18. Nicholas Vandersluis's Avatar
    If it was to only recieve bug fixes at this point, I will leave WP
    07-12-2015 06:39 PM
  19. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    For me I can now view some websites properly with Microsoft Edge that didn't work with IE in 8.1. I also like the extra column of live tiles on larger screens. In addition, the layout of the new store is nicer in my opinion. Perhaps most significant are the new office apps, Outlook mail app, Music, and Xbox apps. Basically there isn't any real reason for me not to upgrade since it's free and brings in some new features and apps. There are a few bugs in the current build like mobile hotspot not working, using Cortana to read text messages over Bluetooth doesn't work reliably, sometimes a delay in updating live tiles, and some other issues that are very minor, but I expect them to be fixed in the RTM build.
    MikeSo likes this.
    07-12-2015 06:45 PM
  20. jlangner's Avatar
    I have used on daily driver since 10149 (HTC One) so far as I am concerned I am already on 10 for good :)
    07-12-2015 06:53 PM
  21. Cage Ata's Avatar
    I don't think I will ever abandon windows on pc but mobile.. Its becoming more of an endurance test than anything else. If WM only receives bug fixes from this point onwards, ill be leaving for ios and I really don't want to because I love windows. I love the tiles. I don't know why its so difficult to offer the same capabilities as the competitors. Interactive tiles with toggles could have been a game changer I think, truly making them 'live' and I know its coming later but at launch, this is Microsofts last chance.
    07-12-2015 08:45 PM
  22. msirapian's Avatar
    Hi
    Good question. My answer would be yes. My daily driver is a 1020 sporting 8.1 and I test W10 on my 535.

    What I expect from new builds is more stability, etc. and above Cortana going ahead (still alpha in France but already better on 10 than 8.1).

    A lot of "bugs" reported here are app-related. MSN Apps are now catching up with their 8.1 opposite numbers (MSN News can finally share an article o_O) so I think one has really to focus on the OS to answer the question of upgrading. Apps evolve a lot faster than builds, and to conclude, I would sum it up by 2 points :
    a) We need a more refined OS (stability, performance, etc.), including core features like Cortana, tile animation, lockscreen etc.
    b) We need apps (some of which are "stock apps" on WP8.1) to update quickly to bring more features. For instance, I can finally choose outlook mail to show on my lockscreen notifications. Don't know if it's app or OS related.

    To illustrate this, I decided to test W10 only when the office apps were available (10080). That shows how this OS/app separation is even more important on W10 than 8.1 when you have to answer the question of upgrade or not.
    07-12-2015 11:02 PM
  23. xandros9's Avatar
    I laughed way too hard at that. Music is great? Yes, can't even get a song on replay. It stops at the end with an error. And the laggy ugly-looking toggles... I don't really know how you people see things...
    Works perfectly for as far as I can tell. Some responsiveness-quirks, but fine all-things-considered. The swipe to get to the playlist is much appreciated.

    Could it possibly be... that the experience is (too) variable?
    07-12-2015 11:05 PM
  24. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    At the very least it's better than 8.1. Everyone claiming they won't upgrade is a big fat liar.
    07-12-2015 11:06 PM
  25. cory1717's Avatar
    I'd like to see more new features. The people hub needs more cleaning I don't like it at all . Also the live tile people hub sucks .6tag integration would be nice. The new calendrer app is way to messy . I really like the calendar on 8.1.
    07-12-2015 11:16 PM
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