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  1. AkArora's Avatar
    Hi,

    I have installed 10166 build on Lumia 830, though the build is pretty smooth and the annoying "Resuming" screens which plagued WP 8.1 are gone completely, but the recent apps list is still limited to 7?

    I have seen videos where Lumia 1520 renders app switch screen differently, but number of apps have been greater than 10. Would'nt it make sense to increase the number of recent apps and this shouldn't be biased to screen sizes? I feel this very limiting. Or is the situation different with other devices?
    Last edited by AkArora; 07-17-2015 at 01:47 PM.
    07-17-2015 12:37 PM
  2. sumeet shukla's Avatar
    No, 7 is not the limit.
    07-17-2015 12:43 PM
  3. AkArora's Avatar
    Can you confirm on which phone? It should be a bug then?
    07-17-2015 01:48 PM
  4. The Extreme G's Avatar
    920 user here. The max I'm able to see is 7.
    The 1520 has 2gb of ram so that could play a role in app management.
    07-17-2015 02:28 PM
  5. Allen Brandt's Avatar
    I just closed 9 apps (not counting the start screen) on my 640 running 10166, so even with the 1GB of memory, it's working well.
    AkArora likes this.
    07-17-2015 06:15 PM
  6. EL620's Avatar
    I tried running 6 - 7 apps with my 822, some were just sitting in the background for some time and still resumed almost instantly. Even during an active skype call.
    07-17-2015 06:23 PM
  7. Rich215's Avatar
    just closed out 14 with my Icon
    AkArora likes this.
    07-17-2015 06:35 PM
  8. AkArora's Avatar
    I just closed 9 apps (not counting the start screen) on my 640 running 10166, so even with the 1GB of memory, it's working well.
    640 and 830 are basically the same chipset. So I assume that this is a bug.
    07-18-2015 05:32 AM
  9. King Nickles Saintil's Avatar
    My 930 i just closed out about 14/15
    07-18-2015 05:43 AM
  10. colinkiama's Avatar
    Oh noo, the multitasking I Worse in this build on my 735. Last time I had 12 apps open that all resumed quickly.
    07-18-2015 05:53 AM
  11. jojoe42's Avatar
    Interesting, my 1020 can keep 14 apps in the multitasking screen and all resume pretty quick now
    07-18-2015 08:28 AM
  12. byobg's Avatar
    Hi,

    I have installed 10166 build on Lumia 830, though the build is pretty smooth and the annoying "Resuming" screens which plagued WP 8.1 are gone completely, but the recent apps list is still limited to 7?

    I have seen videos where Lumia 1520 renders app switch screen differently, but number of apps have been greater than 10. Would'nt it make sense to increase the number of recent apps and this shouldn't be biased to screen sizes? I feel this very limiting. Or is the situation different with other devices?
    On my Lumia 635 (512Mb RAM) running 10149, I'm absolutely limited to 7 "recent" apps - I launch an eighth, and the first one drops off.

    It shouldn't have anything to do with screen size - I assume RAM would be the deciding factor, but the 830 has at least 1G, right?

    I thought for sure that at some point in the W10 TP, I had more than 7 - so maybe this is still in flux?
    07-18-2015 10:32 AM
  13. AkArora's Avatar
    On my Lumia 635 (512Mb RAM) running 10149, I'm absolutely limited to 7 "recent" apps - I launch an eighth, and the first one drops off.

    It shouldn't have anything to do with screen size - I assume RAM would be the deciding factor, but the 830 has at least 1G, right?

    I thought for sure that at some point in the W10 TP, I had more than 7 - so maybe this is still in flux?
    Yes, 830 has 1 GB. This is an inconsistency. I am going to report this in the Feedback app. The 8th app drops off. This gets annoying sometimes.
    07-18-2015 01:03 PM
  14. byobg's Avatar
    Yes, 830 has 1 GB. This is an inconsistency. I am going to report this in the Feedback app. The 8th app drops off. This gets annoying sometimes.
    I was finally able to upgrade to 10166 yesterday and start playing around with this - it's weirder than I thought.

    Weirdness 1: I'm positive that at some point last night I had 10+ apps (plus the Start screen) in my "recent" list - but today, when I started testing it a little more rigorously, it seemed consistently limited to 9. So OK, maybe I miscounted last night, whatever.

    Weirdness 2: The right-most apps on my list were Edge and Groove, so those should have been the first to drop off as I launched new apps - but they didn't drop off, ever. The app to the left of them dropped off. Maybe some apps get privileged in the recent-list-maintaining algorithm? (Or maybe apps that are allowed to run in the background don't fall off the list - that seems reasonable too.) (Nope, that wasn't it - People, Store, Facebook, Outlook, and Here Drive+ are all allowed to run in the background, but they all fell off the "recent" list while Groove and Edge didn't.)

    Weirdness 3: Hey, I just added a tenth app and nothing dropped off, unlike the past 20 times I did that - so it's NOT hard-coded to 9, I guess. (Maybe the limit isn't the number of apps, but rather the amount of RAM the system will dedicate to saving the state of suspended apps? That would make sense - what state to save is up to the developer, and there are very different implications to the system between suspending 7 apps that want to save a HUGE amount vs 7 apps that only want to save a few bytes - so limiting total resource allocation is the most efficient way to do it. (At the expense of predictable behavior, unfortunately, because the user has no concept of whether given app saves a LOT of state or just a little...) (NOTE: These are all just wild-*** guesses and assumptions based on zero knowledge, but I'd bet a few Internet Dollars I'm not too far off.)



    So not only is the behavior different from 8.1, it's different in different situations on the same day with the same device. I think the silver lining here is that there's likely only a tiny number of WP users who had a good handle on how the OLD task-switcher worked, so they won't be affected by apparent inconsistencies, the same way I don't notice typos in Chinese.
    07-19-2015 11:32 AM
  15. byobg's Avatar
    Aaaaand of course, this weird behavior is completely non-reproducible now, and I'm back to (apparently) a max of seven slots in my "recent" list; and both Edge and Groove Music fall off the end of the list the way they're supposed to.

    I think the only reliable conclusion that I can draw here is that there's no reliable conclusion I can draw.
    AkArora likes this.
    07-19-2015 05:22 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    You're looking for a simple answer to a complicated question. Too simple...

    There is no longer a predetermined number of apps that WP can retain in memory. How much memory our devices have is obviously the most important factor, but WP8.1 apps running on WP8.1 or higher will have their memory usage monitored/profiled. If you open many apps that (based on memory profiling) aren't expected to use a lot of RAM, then the OS will retain more of them in memory.

    On a 1GB device you should be able to get around 7, but depending on which apps/games you launch, the OS could retain considerably more or less.

    This is not a bug, and screen size has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-20-2015 at 07:04 AM. Reason: formatting
    07-19-2015 05:47 PM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    Weirdness 2: The right-most apps on my list were Edge and Groove, so those should have been the first to drop off as I launched new apps - but they didn't drop off, ever.
    I don't understand how WP decides which app to drop, but I do know it's more complicated than just dropping the app that was least recently used. For example, how much memory an app uses also factors into it. Developers can get their app to be dropped less frequently, if they require only very little RAM.
    That's not the whole story either though.
    07-20-2015 12:51 AM
  18. AkArora's Avatar
    I think the only reliable conclusion that I can draw here is that there's no reliable conclusion I can draw.
    There are some interesting points you bring out in your non-conclusion. I also tried to reproduce this behavior, and could get a maximum of 11 apps open at one time on 1 GB Lumia 830, and after 11, random applications kept dropping, and once I reduced the number of apps to 7 by manually clearing off 4 apps, the number of recent apps wouldn't increase and was limited to 7.

    I don't understand how WP decides which app to drop, but I do know it's more complicated than just dropping the app that was least recently used.
    I would rather have them explain to users what they are considering best as a user experience rather than considering that end user wont just care. There maybe RAM managment side of this, but apps being limited to 11 and then 7 after clearing 4 apps does not validate this too, now I am way more curious to what is happening at the back end.
    07-20-2015 02:32 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    I would rather have them explain to users what they are considering best.
    I can't speak for MS, but I'm pretty sure what they would say. These are the rules they are going by:

    a) MS attempts to keep as many apps in memory as possible
    b) MS attempts to drop as few apps from memory as possible, and hopes you won't notice when they do
    c) MS reserves the right to change their methods at any time without notice, so as to improve adherence to rules (a) and (b)

    Because their methods can change at any time, there is no point to explaining it in detail. It's not that there "may be a RAM management side to this"! That is pretty much the only side to this there is! It terms of users experience, it would be best to never unload an app from memory... ever. That's just technically not feasible, so rules (a) - (c) represent the compromise.
    07-20-2015 07:11 AM
  20. AkArora's Avatar
    t's not that there "may be a RAM management side to this"! That is pretty much the only side to this there is!
    That does not seem plausible from the current behavior. Once you try it yourself you will feel the weirdness of it.
    07-20-2015 09:29 AM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    That does not seem plausible from the current behavior. Once you try it yourself you will feel the weirdness of it.
    Can you elaborate? What else besides memory management are you imagining could factor into this?

    I have no idea what you're talking about or alluding to. It sounds like you think you can derive facts about WP's memory management by looking at WP's task switcher, which is obviously ridiculous, but that's how I understand what you are saying.
    07-20-2015 09:49 AM
  22. AkArora's Avatar
    Can you elaborate? What else besides memory management are you imagining could factor into this?

    I have no idea what you're talking about or alluding to. It sounds like you think you can derive facts about WP's memory management by looking at WP's task switcher, which is obviously ridiculous, but that's how I understand what you are saying.
    And it is equally ridiculous that you conclude that what you are saying (memory management) is the only reason behind it and it cannot be an anomaly whatsoever, kudos.

    If you have tried, which you clearly haven't opening a set of 7 apps, Skype not being the recent most app. Opening Tubecast drops Skype, maybe largest memory footprint, fair enough.

    Same apps, but Skype is the recent most app, this time opening Tubecast is not dropped (Apps like NextGen Reader, Taskcrunch, Aerize).
    07-20-2015 10:55 AM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    And it is equally ridiculous that you conclude that what you are saying (memory management) is the only reason behind it and it cannot be an anomaly whatsoever, kudos.
    I think you are getting all huffy and puffy over a mere misunderstanding.

    My point is that the closing of apps is related to nothing else but memory management. End of story. It sounds to me like you are suggesting otherwise. It's certainly unrelated to screen size or any of the other things previously mentioned. That is my main point.

    Exactly which app is closed under what circumstances is a different issue. Although I understand how WP approaches memory management conceptually, I already admitted to not fully understanding the details of how WP decides specifically which app to close, so I can't rule out that what you're observing is unintended behavior.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-21-2015 at 06:15 AM. Reason: formatting
    07-20-2015 11:24 AM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    If you have tried, which you clearly haven't opening a set of 7 apps, Skype not being the recent most app. Opening Tubecast drops Skype, maybe largest memory footprint, fair enough.

    Same apps, but Skype is the recent most app, this time opening Tubecast is not dropped (Apps like NextGen Reader, Taskcrunch, Aerize).
    Skype definitely has a large memory footprint. Keeping the VOIP stack in memory was a big issue for MS on 512MB devices.

    For some reason you think the above scenario you described is weird, but I don't see why. It's in fact exactly what I would expect. Why? Because how recently an app was opened also factors into the decision of which app to drop. If Skype is one of the most recently opened apps, the OS will drop other apps first as it's reasonable to assume you'll still want to use Skype. If however Skype was not one of the most recently opened apps, it will be very high up on the list of apps to drop, due to its relatively high memory consumption.

    As I understand it, that's exactly what you observed.
    07-20-2015 11:52 AM

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