Windows 10 is really great, but Microsoft had all the pieces almost ready to use, I don't know why it took them so long to deliver the OS. Conversely, Google developed Android so fast.
Microsoft should release wm10 on 29
- Thread starter tariqsaad16
- Start date
Windows 10 is really great, but Microsoft had all the pieces almost ready to use, I don't know why it took them so long to deliver the OS. Conversely, Google developed Android so fast.
netmann
New member
Yes, me too. However, until that happens and I mean until that happens before July 29 (timing is very crucial), it would make me believe that Win10 Mobile and flagship phone(s) for that matter are low priority in MS land as MS CEO has admitted to this fact at least indirectly. It seems that Win10 PC OS, Surface, Band, Xbox, Hololens, accumulating developers for Win10 PC Apps and making software for other platforms are MS priorities right now.
Perhaps MS is playing a "wait and see" game to determine how receptive the Win10 PC will be before jumping into the Mobile world! BTW- They had more than 2 years to develop a flagship phone!
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rhapdog
Retired Senior Ambassador
Actually, no. While I appreciate your frustration with wanting an instant Operating System (we all seem to want everything "right now") Windows 10 had to be done completely from scratch if it were to be leaner and be able to support so many different hardware platforms. There were no pieces in place for what Microsoft intended to accomplish except for the ideas. If Apple or Google wanted to take their OSes and make them one, they would have to start from scratch as well. It takes a long time to develop something like that.
Take Android, for instance. You say "Google developed Android so fast." However, Google bought Android, Inc. Android was started in 2003. It was bought by Google in 2005. A public commercial release of Android was not available until September 23, 2008. Source: Android Version History on Wikipedia and Android (operating system) on Wikipedia.
Android was much like Blackberry OS in the early development with no touch screen and a hardware keyboard, but the popularity of touch on the iPhone led them to make changes.
It's an interesting history, really. What can I say, I love reading about the founding and history of operating systems. Yeah, I'm that much of a nerd.
In that terms I would say Cortana has been available in certain regions so long but not everywhere and it has been like yongs that I have been waiting to use cortana without having to set my region and language to either US or GB. I want it tooo
Joshwin
New member
waazzupppp
New member
Google developed Android FAST??? Seriously? They are on Version M - first release was C... That was 6 years ago, 2009, right? Android L was the first Google core change since 2009 (to contrast that, MS has done WM 6.5, 7.0, 8.0 and now 10 in the same time frame) and they didn't even get it right. There are loads of Apps that won't work on ART and issues galore with battery life and connectivity.
That said, I would rather have MS get the features built into the system to make it work right rather than 'build it in later' since that has NEVER happened before. People are so quick to forget that starting from the ground up with a mobile OS is not easy and that's exactly what MS has done 3 times now. It's been a rough 4 years for Windows Phone fans, another couple of months won't really matter if the TP builds keep getting better and better along the way.
Microsoft is developing WM10 with completely new code and google is just updating their Code and completing the alphabets. After android "Z" android will be finished.
The unification of the Windows variants was mostly done at Windows 8, they shared the same kernel and 90% of the API surface. Windows 10 is mostly UI/UX changes.
Microsoft started Windows Mobile in the 90s.
The thing is both companies, Google and Microsoft watched the historic iPhone presentation by Jobs and decided to change course. From that point which product evolved faster? The other one is still playing catch up.
rhapdog
Retired Senior Ambassador
I'll have to research that. Source please? I'd love to read the history on it. I like that sort of thing.
Actually, both companies watched the historic iPhone presentation, but only Google changed course. Microsoft dismissed it thinking it would never amount to anything. That's why they've taken so long to catch up. This I do remember from reading about an interview to their reactions of the iPhone.
Here's the thing, though... now that Windows 10 is coming out, it will be Apple and Google needing to play catch up.
The Build 2014 keynote.
You mean this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U
That's the public reaction, BlackBerry's CEO did the same, I'm sure things were different internally. Although, even if they really thought the iPhone wasn't a good product at that time, their opinion must have changed in just a few months, the iPhone was an instant hit.
rhapdog
Retired Senior Ambassador
I saw the 2015 keynote. I understood it to say it to say it was being re-written. It's possible I could have misunderstood something, I suppose. I'll watch it again since I have it saved to see what was said on it. I may have "assumed" during the presentation. It's been a while and I can't remember.
I wasn't aware that Windows 10 was talked about in the 2014 Build Keynote. Then again, we didn't know it was going to be Windows 10, then, either.
You mean the 2014 keynote specifically stated that Windows 10 would only be UI/UX changes on the code side? I think they were stating that it would be that as far as the consumer would notice. I'll have to download it this coming weekend when I get on Wi-Fi and try to get a chance to watch it next week. Yeah, I only have Wi-Fi access on Sundays when I travel an hour to church and spend the day with family. Just my mobile data plan the rest of the time. Gotta love tethering.
No, they won't say that, it's not good for the business. On the contrary, they're trying to sell Windows 10 as a big step forward and It's working because most people never used the disastrous 8.x product line. Although, Windows 10 is just the culmination of the work done in the last few years and most of the features and infrastructure were already deployed on WP or Windows 8.
In Build 2014 they announced Universal Apps, since then WP and Windows share 90% of the API surface. The Windows variants share the same kernel since 8.0 (2012). So, the unification of the operating systems was mostly done.
Windows 10 introduced minor refinements to Universal Apps. WP and Windows now share 95% of the API surface. The app stores were merged. The most interesting feature is Continuum for phones, the differentiator that depends on the unification work that only Microsoft has done.
Al4video
New member
Sitting on the bench second guessing a company like you actually know something has got to be the safest sport in the world!!
a5cent
New member
Yes, you misunderstood something there. Although I'm sure some parts have undergone major changes, no fundamental part of W10 has been thrown out and entirely rewritten from scratch.
Windows Vista was the only time in recent history where MS threw out and rewrote from scratch fundamental parts of the OS. That's one of the reasons it took seven years to release Vista.
Yeah, MS really didn't say that. That really would have countered MS' marketing message, but I'm thinking the primary reason for not saying it is because it's BS. Here's a more accurate description:
MS has been on a path to OS unification ever since Vista. Up until W8.1 MS had achieved unification in two areas:
A) Kernel
Unification between phones, desktops and XB1 was achieved with W8/WP8.
The kernel is a chunk of code around 20MB in size on disk. It is a very important, but also a very small part of the OS. It resides at the very bottom of the OS' software stack and can basically be thought of as a driver for the CPU.
B) WinRT / WinPRT
~90% unification between phones and desktop achieved with W8.1/WP8.1.
Note that unification refers to parts of the WinRT library, CLR and the API surface. These things reside at the very top of the OS' software stack.
W10 is also about UI/UX changes, but it's even more about the software layers between A and B. For example, on the desktop, some parts of the WinRT library would call and delegate to Win32, but that doesn't exist on the phone. In these intermediate layers, W8.1 and WP8.1 are nothing alike!
W10 represents, for the first time, a unified OS where those components that are shared across form factors actually are identical. With W8.1/WP8.1 MS made it look to developers as if most of the modern OS stack is identical, but with W10 it actually will be. To achieve this WinRT no longer relies on Win32 but rather on something called Windows Core.
IMHO these are the most significant changes to Windows since Vista, in some ways since even before that. As is often the case for OS level changes though, the impact won't be felt by end users directly.
rhapdog
Retired Senior Ambassador
a5cent
New member
rhapdog
Retired Senior Ambassador
This post is stupid. Microsoft should release Windows 11 mobile in 5 days. That would prove that they're a mobile-first company. /s
To elaborate on A5cent's post. Another way to think about it is this, an operating system is not a kernel. Nor is the runtime environment. Android runs on the Linux Kernel, but we can all agree that Android and 'Linux' (GNU Linux) are two very very different operating systems. Similarly you can run WinRT 'like' .NET applications on Linux using the Mono runtime environment. WinRT (Win32's replacement in Windows 8+) is mostly just .NET so you can reuse most of a WinRT app on a Win32 .NET app or in a Linux Mono app. That's because the compiler which takes your code and turns it into machine code abstracts a lot of the operating system level specifics.
Windows 10 for mobile isn't a rewrite but it's also not just a UI refresh. Windows 10 Mobile is where Windows RT was when 8 launched. In fact Windows Mobile 10 is probably Windows RT 10 with a dialer if I had to guess. That's where a5cent and I disagree though on one point. I suspect that Windows 10 Mobile can run Win32 like WindowsRT could. However like Windows RT (since I think W10M is Windows RT) where Microsoft compiled Microsoft Office but refused to share the ARM Win32 compiler I think they cleared out a lot of win32 internal crud but actually still have win32 for now. I can't see how they couldn't. Somewhere deep in Win10Mobile is the device manager. Not the UI, but the OS level driver manager that's on the desktop. Somewhere deep in W10M I also suspect diskpart and other win32 utilities are cranking away.
To elaborate on A5cent's post. Another way to think about it is this, an operating system is not a kernel. Nor is the runtime environment. Android runs on the Linux Kernel, but we can all agree that Android and 'Linux' (GNU Linux) are two very very different operating systems. Similarly you can run WinRT 'like' .NET applications on Linux using the Mono runtime environment. WinRT (Win32's replacement in Windows 8+) is mostly just .NET so you can reuse most of a WinRT app on a Win32 .NET app or in a Linux Mono app. That's because the compiler which takes your code and turns it into machine code abstracts a lot of the operating system level specifics.
Windows 10 for mobile isn't a rewrite but it's also not just a UI refresh. Windows 10 Mobile is where Windows RT was when 8 launched. In fact Windows Mobile 10 is probably Windows RT 10 with a dialer if I had to guess. That's where a5cent and I disagree though on one point. I suspect that Windows 10 Mobile can run Win32 like WindowsRT could. However like Windows RT (since I think W10M is Windows RT) where Microsoft compiled Microsoft Office but refused to share the ARM Win32 compiler I think they cleared out a lot of win32 internal crud but actually still have win32 for now. I can't see how they couldn't. Somewhere deep in Win10Mobile is the device manager. Not the UI, but the OS level driver manager that's on the desktop. Somewhere deep in W10M I also suspect diskpart and other win32 utilities are cranking away.
a5cent
New member
I'm NOT guessing when I say this is entirely incorrect. Windows RT was in no way a basis for W10M.
The basis for W10M was both WP8.1 and parts of W10 (those parts that are shared).
In that case you wouldn't be disagreeing just with me, but with everyone at MS.
W10M doesn't even include the Win32 binaries. That's part of the reason Windows RT and W10 both clock in at over 9GB install size, whereas W10M is a mere 0.5GB.
I'd be interested to know where you're getting this information. You really should stop reading those sources ��
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Jas00555
Retired Ambassador
^
And to add to this, IIRC, the only way to run a small subset (I think it was only ones written in .NET, since Microsoft ported that framework to ARM) of Win32 apps on Windows RT was to jailbreak it by breaking the sandbox, then running an x86 emulator. That hardly seems like a point when trying to explain how W10M can run Win32 apps.
And to add to this, IIRC, the only way to run a small subset (I think it was only ones written in .NET, since Microsoft ported that framework to ARM) of Win32 apps on Windows RT was to jailbreak it by breaking the sandbox, then running an x86 emulator. That hardly seems like a point when trying to explain how W10M can run Win32 apps.
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