09-05-2015 08:25 PM
70 123
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  1. TLuck Sharma's Avatar
    Doesn't matter. OTG will be available. It's a hardware issue for the direction that Microsoft is wanting to go. They define the OTG as being more robust than the half-baked way that Android and iOS handle it. The hardware installed on current phones will not be able to take advantage of the higher and loftier goals that Microsoft has for OTG, which they are calling "Dual-Mode USB" to prevent confusion from it being the way Android and iOS does it. It will do everything iOS and Android does, and a whole lot more. It's going to be more like PC functionality instead of smart phone OTG.

    It's taken reading a lot of white papers to get at this, but this is what I've come up with.

    You can't hook up a 2TB HDD to an Android phone or iPad with OTG. You'll be able to with Windows 10. 'Nuff said. (not to mention promised printer support, etc.)
    Whoa! This is gonna tear ios and android apart. That's pretty cooooooool. Yeah then a new hard is required! What if they can do li'l bit with present device, like OTG support with limited functionality? Like only 32GB pen drive is supported!
    09-03-2015 10:41 PM
  2. rhapdog's Avatar
    The 32GB support is due to the limitation of iOS and Android only being able to read FAT16 and FAT32. They are unable to handle exFAT up to 128GB, and unable to do NTFS. Unable to do other file systems like MacOS/X, Linux, and Windows is why they have the 32GB limitation for OTG. Other limitations are hardware based. Some limitations are OS based.

    Still, I would love to see USB mouse/keyboard OTG. Microsoft wants the port, however, to handle more than just USB but also handle HDMI out and DisplayPort out from the USB port, much like what your laptop's USB 3 port can do currently (with the proper drivers.)

    Yes, it will blow others out of the water, but with Apple's marketing, it will take serious marketing effort on the part of Microsoft for people to believe Apple doesn't do the same thing only better.
    09-04-2015 10:07 AM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    You can't hook up a 2TB HDD to an Android phone or iPad with OTG. You'll be able to with Windows 10. 'Nuff said. (not to mention promised printer support, etc.)
    The 32GB support is due to the limitation of iOS and Android only being able to read FAT16 and FAT32. They are unable to handle exFAT up to 128GB, and unable to do NTFS. Unable to do other file systems like MacOS/X, Linux, and Windows is why they have the 32GB limitation for OTG.
    I'd believe you, except I just did it! I hooked up a 2TB powered external USB 3.0 drive to my Nexus 6 with a USB OTG cable. It showed up in the file explorer, and I was able to browse the files on it.

    Other limitations are hardware based. Some limitations are OS based.
    My Nexus 6 has neither of those limitations!
    09-04-2015 10:46 AM
  4. rhapdog's Avatar
    I'd believe you, except I just did it! I hooked up a 2TB powered external USB 3.0 drive to my Nexus 6 with a USB OTG cable. It showed up in the file explorer, and I was able to browse the files on it.



    My Nexus 6 has neither of those limitations!
    My father tried that as well. Writing to the file system caused corruption. What file system is on that drive?
    09-04-2015 10:57 AM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    My father tried that as well. Writing to the file system caused corruption. What file system is on that drive?
    Here is a screenshot of the USB drive's Properties from a PC:

    capture2.jpg

    Sometimes you have to use a 3rd party app on Android to get it to recognize the drive, such as USB OTG Helper or Stick Mount. It is not always 100% seamless initially, but once you have the app installed (if necessary), it is.

    One other issue I had is that it didn't seem to work with a USB extension cable. I had to eliminate the extension cable and plug the drive's cable directly into my OTG cable. But then it worked perfectly, and the drive is even USB 3.0.
    09-04-2015 11:09 AM
  6. rhapdog's Avatar
    tgp, you know I appreciate your input. However, you're saying your Nexus doesn't have the limitations, but only give the example of the HDD.

    Sometimes you have to use a 3rd party app on Android to get it to recognize the drive, such as USB OTG Helper or Stick Mount. It is not always 100% seamless initially, but once you have the app installed (if necessary), it is.
    That's why you were able to do it. You made modifications through apps.

    That's because Android needs an app to overcome the basic OS limitation. This will all be built into the Windows 10 OS, which means instead of having to go through certain apps, any app you have installed that can save files should be able to save to the HDD. Something you can't do on standard Android. Not all apps can save it to the HDD. Like I said before, the NTFS file system is a limitation of the OS. What you have done is to install an app where the app has the ability to read NTFS. It's not the same thing as the OS recognizing it. Careful with it, though, because not all those apps that can READ can write without corrupting the data. That's what happened to my dad.

    As far as hardware limitations, are you saying you are able to use USB-OTG to hook up a DisplayPort monitor? That's what Microsoft is doing with it. That's why the new hardware requirements. HDMI Monitor even? Printers? LAN adapters? Routers? Video Capture device? How about a USB based magnetic strip card reader? Card readers for iOS and Android hook into the audio port (because it can't be supported with USB-OTG with their implementation), read the magnetic strip and send the data through an audio signal much like old dial-up modems. USB would be more efficient. Microsoft's vision will enable that functionality. Hand scanners (laser style) and everything will be available.

    Dual-mode USB, as Microsoft is implementing it, is going to be quite different from the USB-OTG implementation that Android and iOS has. It's more then just hooking up keyboard, mouse, and storage devices. That's not what it is about. Sure, you will be able to hook up a 6TB storage device with Windows 10 for Mobile with the appropriate Dual-mode USB hardware, but it's more about providing way more functionality and a wider range of products than it is about providing access to USB storage.
    09-04-2015 11:29 AM
  7. tgp's Avatar
    That's why you were able to do it. You made modifications through apps.
    Oh OK, I didn't realize you were bringing it down to this level! By reading your post, I understood that it wasn't possible at all. I actually believed you! I've hooked up hard drives before, but not as big as 2TB. I right away decided to try it since I had a 2TB drive available.

    You are correct that NTFS support is not built in to Android. Well, technically the OS supports it, but it is not enabled in the kernel by default. This is probably due to NTFS being Microsoft's proprietary file system. From what I understand, the app essentially flips the switch in the kernel.

    Some OEM phones do support it out of the box, but that's due to the manufacturer enabling it. Nexus is 100% pure, stock Android. And for the record, I know that WP users are loath to use apps (probably because we're not used to them being available!), but it really only takes a few seconds.

    Either way, W10 will fix everything!
    09-04-2015 11:43 AM
  8. rhapdog's Avatar
    And for the record, I know that WP users are loath to use apps (probably because we're not used to them being available!), but it really only takes a few seconds.
    Nah, I like using apps. I just don't think I should have to have an app to enable something that should be built-in, like Bluetooth, SD card support, support for my OfficeJet Wi-Fi printer, support for my DisplayPort monitor, support for my ailing grandma, etc. Okay, just joking about the ailing grandma part. I don't have a grandma any more. :P

    I just won't get it all on my current phone.

    But at least I have the printer support already. Took an app, though.
    09-04-2015 12:27 PM
  9. tgp's Avatar
    Nah, I like using apps. I just don't think I should have to have an app to enable something that should be built-in, like Bluetooth, SD card support, support for my OfficeJet Wi-Fi printer, support for my DisplayPort monitor, support for my ailing grandma, etc.
    Hey, at least Android users have the option of installing an app for OTG hard drive support!

    I think it is only WP users that complain about using apps, again, probably because we're used to not having them. WP users do not automatically think "There's an app for that" like iOS and Android users. Apple started the app craze, and Google exacerbated it. But hey, that's the way the mobile ecosystem is, WP included. Some of that will ease with W10M, but I'm sure there will still be plenty of app requirement there.

    Hang on, the next months will be an exciting ride!
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-04-2015 12:42 PM
  10. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Hey, at least Android users have the option of installing an app for OTG hard drive support!

    I think it is only WP users that complain about using apps, again, probably because we're used to not having them. WP users do not automatically think "There's an app for that" like iOS and Android users. Apple started the app craze, and Google exacerbated it. But hey, that's the way the mobile ecosystem is, WP included. Some of that will ease with W10M, but I'm sure there will still be plenty of app requirement there.

    Hang on, the next months will be an exciting ride!
    Yeah android requires an app for flashlight while ios and windows 10 have it built in. Small differences.
    09-04-2015 12:47 PM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    Yeah android requires an app for flashlight while ios and windows 10 have it built in. Small differences.
    W10M has the flashlight built in, but it is not yet released. Android Lollipop is the first version to have it built in, but it was released about a year ago. Small differences.
    09-04-2015 12:53 PM
  12. rhapdog's Avatar
    Hey, at least Android users have the option of installing an app for OTG hard drive support!

    I think it is only WP users that complain about using apps, again, probably because we're used to not having them. WP users do not automatically think "There's an app for that" like iOS and Android users. Apple started the app craze, and Google exacerbated it. But hey, that's the way the mobile ecosystem is, WP included. Some of that will ease with W10M, but I'm sure there will still be plenty of app requirement there.

    Hang on, the next months will be an exciting ride!
    Yeah, I've heard some complaints from a few people (that I spoke to in person, not here on the forums) that said, "I tried Windows Phone, but I couldn't find an app for such and such." I told them the reason there was no app was because it was built-in the OS. No app required. Then I showed them how to do it on my phone and they were amazed.

    Sometimes the app gap is because we don't have snapchat or a bank app, other times it's because of a misunderstanding of the OS.

    All the OSes are fine for what they do. I just prefer the way Windows does it. (UI mostly.) I also prefer the performance per $ of phone cost, considering it takes high-end hardware to be as smooth on the other phones, and I've got that smooth on my $80 L640 and my $35 L635.
    09-04-2015 01:28 PM
  13. tgp's Avatar
    Yeah, I've heard some complaints from a few people (that I spoke to in person, not here on the forums) that said, "I tried Windows Phone, but I couldn't find an app for such and such." I told them the reason there was no app was because it was built-in the OS. No app required. Then I showed them how to do it on my phone and they were amazed.

    Sometimes the app gap is because we don't have snapchat or a bank app, other times it's because of a misunderstanding of the OS.

    All the OSes are fine for what they do. I just prefer the way Windows does it. (UI mostly.) I also prefer the performance per $ of phone cost, considering it takes high-end hardware to be as smooth on the other phones, and I've got that smooth on my $80 L640 and my $35 L635.
    Most of what you stated here is outdated. It used to be that way, but not so much anymore. WP has less built in, and Android has more. WP is actually turning into what Android was a couple years ago, and that's part of what concerns me with its direction. Features out the wazoo, and performance and stability degradation to go along with it.

    Android has plenty of low cost handsets that will hold their own against a similar priced WP. The stuff you and poopyfinger stated in the previous few posts indicates that you aren't keeping current on what's happening outside of Microsoft.
    09-04-2015 01:39 PM
  14. rhapdog's Avatar
    You mean Android has a phone for $80 that can keep up with the performance of a Lumia 640? I've not seen any Android phones under $100 that don't have a bit of lag or lack in some of the features of my Lumia 640, and I mean the ones currently on the market. Android, yes even the latest version, if run on the same exact low-end hardware of a Windows Phone, will be outperformed by said Windows Phone. That's not outdated information. That's the facts. I bought my Lumia 635 for $35. Find a similarly priced Android with 512MB RAM that can run as smooth under the same hardware. Find one that will still be running smooth after one year of running and having apps, like the 635 has.

    We're off topic. If you'd like to continue, let's start a new topic, PM me with a link, and we can continue the "phone war" over there.

    I'm not anti-android, I just feel WP was my better deal for what I can get for my dollar, that's all. If I was anti-android, I wouldn't be wanting to get the Android labeled NFC stickers to play around with. ;)
    09-04-2015 01:55 PM
  15. ZipZapRap's Avatar
    I want USB OTG to use a USB DAC.. can't wait for that
    Luk Tanguy likes this.
    09-04-2015 08:42 PM
  16. Krystianpants's Avatar
    W10M has the flashlight built in, but it is not yet released. Android Lollipop is the first version to have it built in, but it was released about a year ago. Small differences.
    Really because my friend has lollipop on his htc and it's not built in. He has an app.
    09-05-2015 09:07 AM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    Really because my friend has lollipop on his htc and it's not built in. He has an app.
    It's built in. It should be in the Quick Settings. Do a 2 finger drag down from the top of the screen. Or say, "OK Google, turn on flashlight."
    09-05-2015 09:56 AM
  18. rhapdog's Avatar
    A lot of people are so used to needing to have apps, they never look to see if something is built-in. It's a common thing.
    Laura Knotek and tgp like this.
    09-05-2015 08:02 PM
  19. tgp's Avatar
    A lot of people are so used to needing to have apps, they never look to see if something is built-in. It's a common thing.
    Yes that's right. And it seems to me that the flashlight is something that should never have needed an app. It should have been a built in function from the beginning.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-05-2015 08:19 PM
  20. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    It's built in. It should be in the Quick Settings. Do a 2 finger drag down from the top of the screen. Or say, "OK Google, turn on flashlight."
    That's correct.



    Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
    09-05-2015 08:25 PM
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