08-27-2015 02:39 PM
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  1. djeire84's Avatar
    I have said my piece I am bowing out!
    08-26-2015 08:08 AM
  2. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Ok yes all the last generation phones had the feature and some android and apple devices has it but like if thats what you look for in a phone research first like I did when I was considering buying the 640XL I put it out to the fellow Windows central community and they were really helpful.
    Good point. Its like when cars were invented and a lot of people were upset they could no longer use bio-fuel (hay) to power their means of transportation.
    08-26-2015 09:18 AM
  3. djeire84's Avatar
    Good point. Its like when cars were invented and a lot of people were upset they could no longer use bio-fuel (hay) to power their means of transportation.

    Unfortunately for those poor souls they didn't have internet to google their difficulty. Just imagine it like having the car and horse parked beside one another and they putting the hay in the gas tank lol (I know they weren't that dumb but its a funny concept). They had Marconi it was and still known today as Victorian internet lol. God bless the internal combustion engine though! :)
    08-26-2015 09:24 AM
  4. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    So its not the phones fault or the OS fault that you got the wrong phone for you.
    Well, I wasn't trying to say anyone was at "fault". To me this whole thread is about why Microsoft have taken a different position from all the other phone OS makers on repeating notifications, and in it I argue for why they are valuable. Not for everyone, but certainly for me and clearly for others.
    zr2s10 likes this.
    08-26-2015 10:17 AM
  5. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    To me this whole thread is about why Microsoft have taken a different position from all the other phone OS makers on repeating notifications, and in it I argue for why they are valuable. Not for everyone, but certainly for me and clearly for others.
    No product can have everything any customer might want. The primary reason is that no company has unlimited resources. That means ANYTHING, no matter how easy to do, means something else that some customer might want doesn't happen. MS decided there were other things more important at least for now. Since its a low demand and since an app could do this for customers who want it, MS might be smart to leave it to an app developer.
    08-26-2015 11:41 AM
  6. SyscoKid00's Avatar
    I am really surprised so many people think this feature is unnecessary. Being self-employed, I run with 2 Nokia 920s and at the end of the day the last thing I want is to keep them in my pocket. They both go on the chargers in the kitchen. If I run to the washroom for a few minutes I dont want to have to remember to stop by the kitchen and check the phones, thats ridiculous. My phones are work tools and about once a month I will get a call about an outage that I need to deal with. If I missed a call I want to know about it. Lets not forget technology is here to make life easier for people. I look at it as should I be checking my phones 15-20 times a night x 30 days a month for the one call that may come through or do I get a phone that will alert me? I guess thats the difference, I like to automate processes in my life after all success comes to those who work smarter not harder
    levin808 likes this.
    08-26-2015 11:50 AM
  7. Joshua Jackson's Avatar
    Maybe I can give a slightly different reason for audible reminders of missed calls and messages...

    I ride a motorcycle.
    I might be on the road for 30 minutes (going to work) or 3 hours (extended lunch run).
    Given that I keep my phone in my jacket pocket, so I don't see visual notifications.
    Given the helmet and wind noise, I don't hear audible notifications.
    Given the shirt and padded jacket, I don't feel vibration notifications.
    If I missed a call/text, and my phone repeatedly announced it (any and all notification ways), I would be more likely to notice it.
    I might be stopped at a traffic light or going slowly enough that I hear the audible notification over the wind.
    As such, I would pull over and check it.

    Should it be forced upon the user and their surroundings?
    No.
    Should it be an option?
    Yes.
    JJ
    08-26-2015 11:58 AM
  8. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Options are out of fashion. Doing things the way MS decides you will do them is in. If you want options, you need to take control and find your own way to make it work or you need to take your phone and beat MS about the lugholes with it until they start to listen. It is, admittedly, a long term project though.
    08-26-2015 12:18 PM
  9. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    Since its a low demand and since an app could do this for customers who want it, MS might be smart to leave it to an app developer.
    No, no, that's the whole point! Developers CAN'T develop an app do it - the API (the hooks into the OS that apps can use to access functions) is not available to normal developers. (Apparently there is some kind of special status a developer can get, which allows them to use the relevant API, but seemingly nobody knows how to get this status.)
    08-26-2015 12:43 PM
  10. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    I am really surprised so many people think this feature is unnecessary. Being self-employed, I run with 2 Nokia 920’s and at the end of the day the last thing I want is to keep them in my pocket. They both go on the chargers in the kitchen. If I run to the washroom for a few minutes I don’t want to have to remember to stop by the kitchen and check the phones, that’s ridiculous. My phones are work tools and about once a month I will get a call about an outage that I need to deal with. If I missed a call I want to know about it. Let’s not forget technology is here to make life easier for people. I look at it as should I be checking my phones 15-20 times a night x 30 days a month for the one call that may come through or do I get a phone that will alert me? I guess that’s the difference, I like to automate processes in my life after all success comes to those who work smarter not harder……
    That describes my position and opinion exactly.
    08-26-2015 12:43 PM
  11. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    ...........or you need to take your phone and beat MS about the lugholes with it until they start to listen.
    Indeed! This thread is my part in the beating about the lugholes.
    08-26-2015 12:45 PM
  12. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    Maybe I can give a slightly different reason for audible reminders of missed calls and messages...

    I ride a motorcycle.
    I might be on the road for 30 minutes (going to work) or 3 hours (extended lunch run).
    Given that I keep my phone in my jacket pocket, so I don't see visual notifications.
    Given the helmet and wind noise, I don't hear audible notifications.
    Given the shirt and padded jacket, I don't feel vibration notifications.
    If I missed a call/text, and my phone repeatedly announced it (any and all notification ways), I would be more likely to notice it.
    I might be stopped at a traffic light or going slowly enough that I hear the audible notification over the wind.
    As such, I would pull over and check it.

    Should it be forced upon the user and their surroundings?
    No.
    Should it be an option?
    Yes.
    JJ
    You took the words from my mouth! I, too, am a motorcyclist and I cannot remember how many times I've been faced with this scenario. Eventually, a bleep will coincide with a traffic light stop, and I pull over to check who's been trying to contact me.

    Or at least I did, until I got a Windows phone.
    08-26-2015 12:47 PM
  13. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    No, no, that's the whole point! Developers CAN'T develop an app do it - the API (the hooks into the OS that apps can use to access functions) is not available to normal developers. (Apparently there is some kind of special status a developer can get, which allows them to use the relevant API, but seemingly nobody knows how to get this status.)
    Okay you start by saying developers can't add this ability and go on to say it can be done in the same sentence?

    The fact that you and some developers don't know how to get that status is no proof that others don't know. Or do you honestly believe that MS has created the ability but is actively preventing its use?
    08-26-2015 12:48 PM
  14. wmgeek's Avatar
    yeah Steve, I do believe that it'll be a good feature for windows mobiles if MS adds. Even my previous S40 NokiaAsha300 used to vibrate if there was any unattended call or sms. I think MS should consider this feature.
    08-26-2015 01:10 PM
  15. PPCFreak's Avatar
    Yep, almost as good. You still have to remember to look at the phone every few minutes, although the flash might well draw your attention. I find it completely bizarre that Windows phones don't have an LED for that very purpose. Needless to say, all other smartphones do, and many (admittedly not all) dumbphones, too.
    its puzzling since Windows Mobile OS (before WP or Windows 10 Moblie) devices had an led light to flash if there was missed notifications.

    HTC did a good job with that and the proximity sensor allowing you to increase volume or turn on vibrate if the sensor was covered (aka, in your pocket).

    I miss both of those options and with todays tech, they seem so very minor and easy to implement those sensors to do those simple functions.
    levin808 likes this.
    08-26-2015 01:42 PM
  16. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    Okay you start by saying developers can't add this ability and go on to say it can be done in the same sentence?

    The fact that you and some developers don't know how to get that status is no proof that others don't know. Or do you honestly believe that MS has created the ability but is actively preventing its use?
    Well, I'm only reporting what I've been told by the programming experts. I agree with you that it all seems pretty bizarre. But I can show you the proof.

    My first step was to see if I could interrogate the SMS app. Here is the link to the forum where I ask the original question: https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Fo...e-1c80c080a662

    The key phrase is this: "Windows.ApplicationModel.Chat API is the key point, but this API is not available to all Windows/Windows Phone apps. Unless your developer account is specially provisioned by Microsoft, calls to these APIs will fail at runtime." Later on in the thread I'm told to contact Microsoft Developer Support to find out how to get this special status, but it looks like it will need me to sign up for paid support, which I'm reluctant to do just now, especially if they then say "No"!

    My second approach was to see if I could interrogate the Notification Centre instead. Here is the link:
    https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Fo...orum=wpdevelop

    You will see that I am advised that there is no way an app can read notifications from other apps, only from itself. Later on I am told: " It is not possible because there is no API which can read the notification from notification center."

    Thirdly, I think my enquiries must have kicked off an interest in someone else, because they started a new topic which I joined:
    https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Fo...orum=wpdevelop

    During the discussion I found something called "system triggers", one of which is called "SMSReceived". These can be used to launch a background app, and I wondered if the background app could then generate the repeating beeps. A contributor said he'd experiment but he hasn't come back to the thread.

    So you can see that I've tried damned hard to find a way of doing it myself - it's not like I've been sitting on my arse making demands and expecting others to meet them.

    To answer your original point, HoosierDaddy, it looks like Microsoft have indeed added this ability, but have then blocked it to all but those developers to whom Microsoft grants a special status. I guess this is all to do with security and privacy. And right now, unless I pay for a support contract, it looks like I can't make a direct request for this special status.

    Even then, I'd still have to teach myself how to program for Windows Mobile!
    bsbharath1987 likes this.
    08-26-2015 03:44 PM
  17. levin808's Avatar
    Finally! Someone mentions the original Windows Mobile. yes, I had a HTC Mogul (WM6.5) and used this notification feature. I do miss this option. "Option" as in it can be turned off you don't want it. As others have mentioned some of us aren't glued to their phones; while at home my phone is usually on the charger and I don't pick it up unless I get call/txt. so if I don't hear it or step away for a moment, it could be hours before I notice. I've had WM before they were on phones so call me old fashioned.
    PPCFreak likes this.
    08-26-2015 06:45 PM
  18. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Finally! Someone mentions the original Windows Mobile. yes, I had a HTC Mogul (WM6.5) and used this notification feature. I do miss this option. "Option" as in it can be turned off you don't want it. As others have mentioned some of us aren't glued to their phones; while at home my phone is usually on the charger and I don't pick it up unless I get call/txt. so if I don't hear it or step away for a moment, it could be hours before I notice. I've had WM before they were on phones so call me old fashioned.

    Windows Mobile had a ton of features that never made it to Windows Phone. You should've been around then to hear the moaning. Look at the bright side, we just got Bluetooth PAN tethering with Denim so notification repetition is only a few years away.
    Laura Knotek and PPCFreak like this.
    08-26-2015 08:58 PM
  19. MadSci2's Avatar
    AHH the heady days of WinMo! I too loved the large array of colored LEDs and variety of repeating sounds. If you recall thought they began to be left off of WinMo handsets around 2006/7. And there was a reason.

    There was a brilliant article onto his topic on MoDaCo back in the day, and the gist was very simple.

    Power

    Believe it or not those repeating notifications were an amazing battery hog. Before Smartphones were so connected, and had such high speed radios and such large screens the power they used as they chirped and flashed was not a problem. As our phones grew in size and power consumption, the Engineers needed those electrons to do the glamorous stuff we all love.

    So unless you don't worry too much about battery life (ie are running android), or battery power densities go way up, don't expect any up to date mobile OS to bring back our beloved repeating notifications any time soon, no matter how much we wish they would :-(
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    08-27-2015 12:01 AM
  20. estidi's Avatar
    Really? If so, that would be fantastic and exactly what I've been looking for. HOWEVER, I'm almost certain your memory is of something else - all of the expert advice I've had from the programming community confirms that this simply cannot be done on WP7, 8 or 10.

    If you can prove them wrong, that would be amazing.

    Well I'm pretty sure of my memory, but my provider does have SMS reminder feature, maybe that's what I remembered instead of the WP native feature.
    Sorry if I seemed to misled you.
    08-27-2015 12:13 AM
  21. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    The whistle is a Samsung exclusive, not Android. Had them on my previous WP Samsungs.
    I'd imagine that the Zedge app (for Windows Phone and for Android) would have that Samsung whistle ringtone. I found a Nextel chirp ringtone on Zedge.
    08-27-2015 12:31 AM
  22. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    So unless you don't worry too much about battery life (ie are running android), or battery power densities go way up, don't expect any up to date mobile OS to bring back our beloved repeating notifications any time soon, no matter how much we wish they would :-(
    I don't think they have to be a battery hog. If they are, then the programmer is doing it wrong. The power required to make a bleep is unbelievably tiny. Perhaps they made the background program run continuously, or something, which is quite unnecessary. By the way, I'm running a mix of Android and Windows 10 phones and it isn't correct to say that Android is significantly worse in terms of battery life.
    08-27-2015 01:49 AM
  23. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    Finally! Someone mentions the original Windows Mobile.
    Actually, I was referring to the current one - it has been renamed from Windows Phone back to Windows Mobile. (Windows 10 Mobile, to be precise).

    Yes, I had a HTC Mogul (WM6.5) and used this notification feature. I do miss this option. "Option" as in it can be turned off you don't want it. As others have mentioned some of us aren't glued to their phones; while at home my phone is usually on the charger and I don't pick it up unless I get call/txt. so if I don't hear it or step away for a moment, it could be hours before I notice.
    Exactly. This requirement is entirely reasonable and, clearly, not that unusual, despite what my detractors claim!
    08-27-2015 01:53 AM
  24. Great deal's Avatar
    Reading through this thread some say its needed some say its not, clear argument for having it as an option on the phone. For myself there are certain tasks that can become critical to do at a given time and having that constant beeping is a good way, not for all tasks, just for the critical ones.
    08-27-2015 02:30 AM
  25. AgentSplurge's Avatar
    Not that important for me but would be useful. Flashing LED would be far better though :)
    08-27-2015 06:30 AM
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