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09-11-2015 12:00 PM
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  1. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    Okay. Thanks for the quote.

    Build Announced
    10166 July 10, 2015
    10512 August 12, 2015
    .....


    I think some here falsely expect to see preview builds appear regularly, every so-and-so number of weeks. That's just not how the insider preview program is setup to work. If you know nothing about software development it's probably impossible to imagine how and why. You'll just have to accept that preview builds aren't scheduled to materialize at any particular time. They'll materialize when they do. All MS can tell us is that they'll release it to the fast ring when one does.
    I have a strong feeling that Apple will mange to not only release their new mobile system before Microsoft but that it also will be more polished, have more features AND less bugs...

    It is a matter of focus and Microsoft could not care less about their phones.
    09-03-2015 02:47 PM
  2. tangledW's Avatar
    I have a strong feeling that Apple will mange to not only release their new mobile system before Microsoft but that it also will be more polished, have more features AND less bugs...

    It is a matter of focus and Microsoft could not care less about their phones.
    I agree that Apple will release their new mobile OS before Microsoft, but COMPLETELY disagree with the features and bugs comment. Maybe you haven't experienced iOS updates over the past several years, but they are always buggy... and rarely as more than a few features.
    09-03-2015 03:02 PM
  3. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    I agree that Apple will release their new mobile OS before Microsoft, but COMPLETELY disagree with the features and bugs comment. Maybe you haven't experienced iOS updates over the past several years, but they are always buggy... and rarely as more than a few features.
    Just compare the dialer, mail, calendar and music apps... 2005 meets 2015?
    Last edited by Ian_Superfly; 09-03-2015 at 03:24 PM.
    09-03-2015 03:06 PM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    I have a strong feeling that Apple will mange to not only release their new mobile system before Microsoft but that it also will be more polished, have more features AND less bugs...

    It is a matter of focus and Microsoft could not care less about their phones.
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    Either way, none of that has anything to do with whether or not the W10M insider preview builds are being released often/frequently enough, nor with how one might try to judge whether MS is slow or not.

    I'm not sure how you've come to your conclusion about how focused MS is and how much they care about their phone efforts. I doubt many people here know enough about software development to judge either. IMHO they are focused, they are committed, and they do care.

    Rather than asking how fast they are running (they are actually running a lot faster than Apple), I think it would be far more worthwhile to ask whether they are running in the right direction. That's just not what this thread is about.
    eric12341 and sahib lopez like this.
    09-03-2015 04:52 PM
  5. tale 85's Avatar
    Yeah!
    I demand they release an update that will brick my phone immediately!!!!!
    I already did that on build 10166, how about something new.....like smoke!

    Sorry folks, this is just another part of being an Insider. We wait. You can start complaining about the next build soon enough
    09-03-2015 05:17 PM
  6. realwarder's Avatar
    I have a strong feeling that Apple will mange to not only release their new mobile system before Microsoft but that it also will be more polished, have more features AND less bugs...

    It is a matter of focus and Microsoft could not care less about their phones.
    Any new iOS from Apple is a iteration - a refinement of the previous version.

    WM has a lot of new stuff in it. Big new stuff - an entire Android subsystem for instance. Show me one app that is the same? New everything from dialer to browser to settings to alarm clock. Then there is stuff like Continuum. And NFC payment systems. And Windows Hello.

    On 100+ phone variants.

    You are not comparing apples to apples.
    Ma Rio, a5cent, eric12341 and 1 others like this.
    09-03-2015 09:18 PM
  7. Paolo Ferrazza's Avatar

    You are not comparing apples to apples.
    Winner :D
    09-04-2015 02:42 AM
  8. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    Any new iOS from Apple is a iteration - a refinement of the previous version.

    WM has a lot of new stuff in it. Big new stuff - an entire Android subsystem for instance. Show me one app that is the same? New everything from dialer to browser to settings to alarm clock. Then there is stuff like Continuum. And NFC payment systems. And Windows Hello.

    On 100+ phone variants.

    You are not comparing apples to apples.

    So what is the benefit for the end user having a supplier that constantly starts all over again and releases their new system in worse shape than the old (while the competition manage to continuously move forward, even when they make new versions)?

    (Btw, 100+ phone variants (not sold units…)? How do you get to that figure? Are there 100+ phone variants that does meet the W10M demands? I don’t think so, please enlighten me)
    Last edited by Ian_Superfly; 09-04-2015 at 05:30 AM.
    mohammadreza1368 likes this.
    09-04-2015 04:14 AM
  9. safariking's Avatar
    Why are we so unhappy with the insider builds? just be happy that we have the chance to test software, please stop complaining about how bad these builds are IT IS PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE!!! (not finished).
    09-04-2015 04:49 AM
  10. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    Why are we so unhappy with the insider builds? just be happy that we have the chance to test software, please stop complaining about how bad these builds are IT IS PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE!!! (not finished).
    Could it be because the development/the output is so slow that you get the impression that it's just a few people actually working developing the W10M?

    It seems clear that MS has far more/better people working on iOS/Android apps than what they have developing W10M.
    09-04-2015 05:52 AM
  11. safariking's Avatar
    Could it be because the development/the output is so slow that you get the impression that it's just a few people actually working developing the W10M?

    It seems clear that MS has far more/better people working on iOS/Android apps than what they have developing W10M.
    Does it really matter how fast they are developing a new mobile OS? as long as the final product is fine i don't care how long it takes to release it
    09-04-2015 06:39 AM
  12. Pete's Avatar
    Could it be because the development/the output is so slow that you get the impression that it's just a few people actually working developing the W10M?

    It seems clear that MS has far more/better people working on iOS/Android apps than what they have developing W10M.
    I'm not really to sure what you base this on.

    1. The core apps (Office/Email/Calendar) are now dramatically better than they were in Windows Phone 8. The slowness of any updated functionality before Windows 10 was due to the fact that those items were baked into the OS build
    2.. We've seen very regular updates to all of these apps since we have Windows 10. You've doubtless seen stories on the Windows Central front page where this or that app has been updated.
    3. We get a fresh build every few weeks
    4. Gabe is pretty cool about continuing to support questions regarding Mobile as much as Desktop

    It seems pretty clear to me that Microsoft are active and committed to W10M development.
    eric12341 likes this.
    09-04-2015 06:54 AM
  13. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    I'm not really to sure what you base this on.
    1. The core apps (Office/Email/Calendar) are now dramatically better than they were in Windows Phone 8. The slowness of any updated functionality before Windows 10 was due to the fact that those items were baked into the OS build.
    I do not agree at all. I find the new calendar/e-mail app even worse that what we had on WP8.1 (especially the calendar). I find them also very slow (on my L925). On the L925 it is also impossible to navigate through emails and calendar with one hand.

    New W10M Office IS better than on WP8.1 but it is still nothing compared to what Microsoft has developed for iOS.

    2.. We've seen very regular updates to all of these apps since we have Windows 10. You've doubtless seen stories on the Windows Central front page where this or that app has been updated.
    What we have seen is mostly new apps for iOS/Android.
    Changes made for WP/M10M are only minor fixes w/o change-log or just fixing some minor detail deep in the app.

    3. We get a fresh build every few weeks
    Do we? Or is "every few weeks" kind of stretchable?

    4. Gabe is pretty cool about continuing to support questions regarding Mobile as much as Desktop
    I trust him as much as a car dealer...

    It seems pretty clear to me that Microsoft are active and committed to W10M development.
    I would like to believe that this is true but I just do not see it. What I see is full focus on iOS/Android.
    09-04-2015 08:01 AM
  14. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    Does it really matter how fast they are developing a new mobile OS? as long as the final product is fine i don't care how long it takes to release it
    Yeah, but IF you do like Microsoft Products why not be where MS put their recources?
    (I don't (anymore) but for the mass on this board I guess iOS/Android would be a more direct route to MS apps and services...)

    IF MS have the most/best people doing stuff for Android/iOS and keep the "left overs" play with WP/W10M, why should you stay to constantly receive their second class products?
    mohammadreza1368 likes this.
    09-04-2015 08:16 AM
  15. tangledW's Avatar
    Yeah, but IF you do like Microsoft Products why not be where MS put their recources?
    (I don't (anymore) but for the mass on this board I guess iOS/Android would be a more direct route to MS apps and services...)

    IF MS have the most/best people doing stuff for Android/iOS and keep the "left overs" play with WP/W10M, why should you stay to constantly receive their second class products?
    You of course realize that Microsoft is developing the core apps for Windows 10 right? No point in developing these apps over nearly the past year for Windows phone 8.

    Windows 10 mobile isn't done, obviously. This makes Microsoft's apps slow, buggy and not full-featured.

    And the fact is, even with that current status, not all best experiences are on iOS & Android. Ever used Outlook for iOS? It's garbage, unsecured and missing basic functionality.
    09-04-2015 08:51 AM
  16. Zulfigar's Avatar
    Wait, so everyone is complaining about the apps on here? Why not take the time and complain about the apps on an app that was made specifically for this situation? Windows Feedback, then link us the "feedback" you left and get the ball rolling that way?
    09-05-2015 08:15 AM
  17. Rich215's Avatar
    I cant believe the amount of complaining about the builds. We are lucky enough to even have Microsoft do this for us! The preview's are not supposed to be air tight and close to perfect OS variations. It's nice to be able to have the Insider Program to be part of the formulation of Win10 mobile. What other company has done anything like this for its users?

    The insider program allows us to be part of the development and feedback for Win10 mobile, no matter how much apart we users get to play in it is only anyone's guess unless they are part of the MSFT employees working on this.

    Please try not to be so negative because the builds are not coming out fast enough for your patience...or lack there of. If you dont like using the builds....go back to the previous OS version. I have 2 phones and use 8.1 and 10 on the other. I got 0 complaints or worries about not being able to function day to day with either.
    eric12341 and LeFreak like this.
    09-05-2015 11:05 AM
  18. mprebich's Avatar
    Okay. Thanks for the quote.

    Build Announced
    10166 July 10, 2015
    10512 August 12, 2015

    Based on the quote from Gabe Aul, it seems reasonable to expect the next build to release in less than one month's time after 10512.

    At the very least that quote and the above dates invalidate Sedp23's claim that nothing has changed. It's yet too early to know if anything has changed. Build 10152 was release just 2.5 weeks ago. It also invalidates the claim that MS is slow, although attempting to judge that solely on the frequency of preview builds is rather ridiculous either way.

    I think some here falsely expect to see preview builds appear regularly, every so-and-so number of weeks. That's just not how the insider preview program is setup to work. If you know nothing about software development it's probably impossible to imagine how and why. You'll just have to accept that preview builds aren't scheduled to materialize at any particular time. They'll materialize when they do. All MS can tell us is that they'll release it to the fast ring when one does.
    Build 10512 has some serious issue(s) with the Lockscreen (delay in painting the screen) and Start screen (significant number of testers reporting "Loading..." and "Resuming...").

    I equate these major class of errors (we can consider them "errors"/bugs as they definitely are not the expected outcome of the test scenario) to a critical bug that needs to be addressed with a critical fix (not a 3 weeks later fix).

    If a bug prevents a significant number of testers (Windows Insiders in this case) from accessing the system, testing core functionalities and new features/improvements (such as the Lockscreen and Start screen bugs do), then you immediately address the bug and release a next build, so that testing can resume in earnest.

    To me, for this reason, and this reason alone, I feel a new build is long overdue, after 2.5 weeks.

    But you already know all that, as (I guess, a software developer) given that you have on occasion deferred to the answer of "If you know nothing about software development", or something to that effect, as a comeback.

    If the Windows Insider Preview Program is truly for the purpose of testing by interested users prior to release and incorporating feedback into the product, then you would expect that MS would want to get the most out of the process.
    09-05-2015 08:01 PM
  19. flowkidd's Avatar
    The way I see it, is that they are using the preview to get people to test the product, otherwise what's the point of having this preview if they can just test the thing in house and leave us in the dark?

    I think that they can release updates sooner than 1 month because its a preview for insiders, not the mainstream. All builds have been buggy, why not keep releasing buggy builds, in order to get feedback before it's too late and the OS sucks which is where it's leaning towards.

    Android has features that makes W10M look like its from 2012 which is sad. Things like true multitasking and default apps are still not on Windows 10 Mobile. There is no excuse and say what you want about Android but if you can't recognize that even Android 4.0 mops the floor with W10M or WP8.1, you are living in denial.
    09-06-2015 03:14 AM
  20. mrdoubleb's Avatar
    I would just spin the OP's post a bit differently: the lack of more frequent builds is a bit worrying due to the current state of WM 10.

    As my 930 has been sent off for repair, I dusted off a L620 and felt adventurous enough to join the preview community and install 10512. Granted, this is not a high end phone and only has 512 ram, but the OS is very very slow, i spend more time "resuming" to the main screen than ever before, switching between apps is terrible and there are plenty of crashes in Edge and sometimes even while resuming the start screen.

    Now, i fully understand this is beta, plus probably has stuff running in the background catching bugs and writing logs, reporting back to the mothership, but, I was hoping we would see some quick improvements released as we are so close to release. If the October date is real for the new WM10 flagships, I have a hard time seeing how they will meet that at the current pace. Maybe it will be 99% done with that, but it is not likely.
    mprebich likes this.
    09-06-2015 03:29 AM
  21. Rising Mos's Avatar
    Windows 10 Desktop saw similar slowdown in builds before the release. They do optimizations near the end of the development cycle and they were pretty good at it in the desktop side. So hopefully, it will be good in one month time.
    09-06-2015 03:39 AM
  22. flowkidd's Avatar
    Windows 10 Desktop saw similar slowdown in builds before the release. They do optimizations near the end of the development cycle and they were pretty good at it in the desktop side. So hopefully, it will be good in one month time.
    The ONLY difference is that the Desktop OS was NEVER this buggy. NEVER. Which shows the quality of the W10M team.
    09-06-2015 03:59 AM
  23. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    The ONLY difference is that the Desktop OS was NEVER this buggy. NEVER. Which shows the quality of the W10M team.
    Quality OR the number of people doing the work...
    Do we know the relation between the number of developers making the new Android/iOS/W10M?

    I fear Apple puts a lot more resources (and quality?) in their next system (my feel only, do we know/have a way to estimate this?)
    mohammadreza1368 likes this.
    09-06-2015 05:21 AM
  24. seb_r's Avatar
    The number of builds is not as important as the progress they make with each new build. But both cannot be seen here with Win10mobile and if you have been in the insider preview of the desktop version....this is just pathetic what happens here. More than obvious they driving with handbrake on and not trying to compete with other mobile systems or devices. It is unfortunately the true spirit of a technical preview: showing what is technically possible without the need to get this out to the consumers.
    I not believe they cut down the plan of Win10mobile but it will take veeery long to roll out.
    As a company it its only logical to focus on the desktop version: it is officially released and MS still play an important role in desktop market. While for mobile devices and OS the ship is already sunk.
    Don't get me wrong, I would like to see Win10mobile on my 1520 also asap but I am realistic about it. And judging by the progress the OS made and the current status I not expect a release before mid 2016 unless they strip it down to the most basic functions and provide them later on with updates.
    Maybe we will see a presentation with the new flagships soon. But when they become available in stores along with RTM status of the OS is a completely different story.
    09-06-2015 06:29 AM
  25. Sunparm's Avatar
    That's true all they believe is to test new apps on other platforms and even release an updated apps on other platforms, to be honest we insiders are just waiting for new builds but all Microsoft is doing is kept us waiting and waiting.
    09-06-2015 06:41 AM
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