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09-11-2015 12:00 PM
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  1. Sunparm's Avatar
    Guys has anyone tried and tested new updated Skype app on android or ios, its great with all new UI and features but for our own platform we just have the old same version.

    To be honest I really do not understand why Microsoft is not releasing new and updated apps on their own platform first and then on other platform afterwards or even at the same time.
    09-06-2015 06:45 AM
  2. seb_r's Avatar
    Embrace your enemy if you have no power ;)
    09-06-2015 07:39 AM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    To be honest I really do not understand why Microsoft is not releasing new and updated apps on their own platform first and then on other platform afterwards or even at the same time.
    If MS released all the stuff for WP8.x that they are currently releasing for iOS and Android, they'd have to rewrite all those apps again after W10M goes live. Why? Because MS needs all their W10M apps to be universal apps, and that is what they are working on right now (for both W10M and W10), but universal apps don't run on WP8.x! That's why we're not seeing their current mobile related efforts materialize on WP8.x

    If MS did what you are suggesting, they'd have to spend millions on software none of us would use after the rewritten universal apps have caught up, not to mention that this would also delay the appearance of those universal apps on W10 which would be a disaster. That's a very bad idea. Sure, we might want MS to update WP8.x apps now and be ready with the universal apps when W10M launches too, but no company has unlimited resources and no company is in the habit of wasting millions on something that benefits <3% of the market for mere months and is then deleted never to be looked at again.

    It's that simple.

    After W10M has been out for a few months, if these apps continue to lag considerably behind iOS and Android, then I'll be right there with you.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-06-2015 at 09:53 AM. Reason: spelling
    09-06-2015 08:09 AM
  4. seb_r's Avatar
    How can you be so sure it is the reason? There is no official info about the release date of W10M. And from what we see in the TP it will take a while to reach RTM status. Also it is an ongoing situation for very long time already that the Android apps of MS receive more frequently updates and have functionalities that their WP counterpart lacks.
    If they, according to what you said, simply wait for W10M to roll out then at least they could keep their apps for Windows RT up to date which they also not do (remember: no Win10 for Windows RT). But they don't do that either, simply because it is a dying platform just like W10M.
    In fact WP8 apps are prettymuch left behind / abandoned while W10M is not even in sight.
    I welcome their effort to step into the Android world. Also the release of Cortana for Android.
    09-06-2015 08:53 AM
  5. DavidinCT's Avatar
    So far 10512 seems over all pretty good, no deal killer bugs, the only annoyance is notifcations and battery life...
    09-06-2015 09:08 AM
  6. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    Didn't this guy make a thread like a week ago saying he was done with Windows Phone? Is he trolling or something?
    safariking likes this.
    09-06-2015 09:10 AM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    Build 10512 has some serious issue(s) with the Lockscreen (delay in painting the screen) and Start screen (significant number of testers reporting "Loading..." and "Resuming...").

    I equate these major class of errors (we can consider them "errors"/bugs as they definitely are not the expected outcome of the test scenario) to a critical bug that needs to be addressed with a critical fix (not a 3 weeks later fix).
    You think delays, being slow, and constant "resuming" and "loading" represent critical errors. Nobody in the software industry would agree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion.

    A critical error/bug is a literal show-stopper. It's a feature that should work but doesn't, and ends up making testing impossible or meaningless. This is the definition typically used by anybody in the industry, including those who finance custom software development but aren't developers themselves. Having to wait longer than you'd like for an app to resume doesn't qualify.

    Granted, substantial delays can make testing a pain in the rear, but if you CAN test it, then there is no insurmountable (critical) error.

    Lastly, what you think should be fixed in a matter of days and prompt MS to release a new build ASAP, may very well involve a team of people working for one or two months on SoC optimisations. What you want may simply not be possible. At least the loading/resuming issue is likely systemic, for which I doubt there is a quick/easy fix.

    Anyway, the point is this: you can rant all you want, but you won't get anybody at MS (or Apple, or Google, or anywhere else for that matter) to change their mind on this. The only viable alternative would be to NOT deliver a preview at all. If a majority of people adopt your view, canning the insider program is MS' only reasonable alternative, because your expectations are not realistic for software in this phase of its development.

    If a bug prevents a significant number of testers (Windows Insiders in this case) from accessing the system, testing core functionalities and new features/improvements (such as the Lockscreen and Start screen bugs do), then you immediately address the bug and release a next build, so that testing can resume in earnest.
    This we agree on. Apparently we disagree only on the definition of the word "prevent". A computational delay can't prevent you from testing anything. The critical error here is actually your impatience, which is easily remedied by going back to WP8.1.

    If the Windows Insider Preview Program is truly for the purpose of testing by interested users prior to release and incorporating feedback into the product, then you would expect that MS would want to get the most out of the process.
    Actually, finding and reporting bugs isn't the primary purpose of the insider preview. If that's what you're doing you're wasting your time. MS has their own professional testing staff that delivers far more useful, reproducible and actionable bug reports than the community ever could. What you should be reporting on are things you do or don't like. That is far more interesting to MS.
    Chintan Gohel and sahib lopez like this.
    09-06-2015 09:11 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    How can you be so sure it is the reason? There is no official info about the release date of W10M.
    I have no idea if that is directed at me or not. Either way, W10M does have a scheduled release date:

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...rs-inside.html

    If they, according to what you said, simply wait for W10M to roll out then at least they could keep their apps for Windows RT up to date which they also not do (remember: no Win10 for Windows RT). But they don't do that either, simply because it is a dying platform just like W10M.
    There is absolutely no relationship between RT and W10M. Zero. Nothing. Zilch. Trying to infer anything about W10M by how MS treats RT makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
    09-06-2015 09:57 AM
  9. Vincent McLaughlin's Avatar
    It is done when it's done. WP is not playing an important role for the company since it not gained any serious marketshare. And there is no evidence that this will change with the release of Win10 mobile. They focus on the desktop version.
    Those who craving for Win10 mobile are mostly those fanboys who praise anything that MS delivers to them, no matter what and when, and like it.
    So really no need for MS to rush.
    I'm a fanboy, but do agree that the crying is annoying. It's a technical preview and that fact that we have been getting them about once a month instead of once every 3-6. Then the same people complain, when their phone doesn't act right. I imagine they think the developers are just sitting on builds and release them at their leisure.
    09-06-2015 02:20 PM
  10. ajj3085's Avatar
    The way I see it, is that they are using the preview to get people to test the product, otherwise what's the point of having this preview if they can just test the thing in house and leave us in the dark?

    I think that they can release updates sooner than 1 month because its a preview for insiders, not the mainstream. All builds have been buggy, why not keep releasing buggy builds, in order to get feedback before it's too late and the OS sucks which is where it's leaning towards.

    Android has features that makes W10M look like its from 2012 which is sad. Things like true multitasking and default apps are still not on Windows 10 Mobile. There is no excuse and say what you want about Android but if you can't recognize that even Android 4.0 mops the floor with W10M or WP8.1, you are living in denial.
    Because too many people complaining could cause some bad press, or drive people out of the insiders program, defeating the purpose of it.

    The other thing is that's its labor day weekend. No software company is stupid enough to release anything in the us right before then, possibly even two weeks. Its just too risky that a major showstopper goes out then, and no one wants to work over a holiday weekend to fix something like that.
    09-06-2015 05:34 PM
  11. mprebich's Avatar
    I have no idea if that is directed at me or not. Either way, W10M does have a scheduled release date:

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...rs-inside.html
    There is currently no release date.

    The link is to a post you created and state that unofficially October will be the month of release. October is not a date, it's a month.

    If there is something from MS that states an official release date, please enlighten us.
    09-06-2015 07:40 PM
  12. mprebich's Avatar
    You think delays, being slow, and constant "resuming" and "loading" represent critical errors. Nobody in the software industry would agree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion.

    A critical error/bug is a literal show-stopper. It's a feature that should work but doesn't, and ends up making testing impossible or meaningless. This is the definition typically used by anybody in the industry, including those who finance custom software development but aren't developers themselves. Having to wait longer than you'd like for an app to resume doesn't qualify.

    Granted, substantial delays can make testing a pain in the rear, but if you CAN test it, then there is no insurmountable (critical) error.

    Lastly, what you think should be fixed in a matter of days and prompt MS to release a new build ASAP, may very well involve a team of people working for one or two months on SoC optimisations. What you want may simply not be possible. At least the loading/resuming issue is likely systemic, for which I doubt there is a quick/easy fix.

    Anyway, the point is this: you can rant all you want, but you won't get anybody at MS (or Apple, or Google, or anywhere else for that matter) to change their mind on this. The only viable alternative would be to NOT deliver a preview at all. If a majority of people adopt your view, canning the insider program is MS' only reasonable alternative, because your expectations are not realistic for software in this phase of its development.



    This we agree on. Apparently we disagree only on the definition of the word "prevent". A computational delay can't prevent you from testing anything. The critical error here is actually your impatience, which is easily remedied by going back to WP8.1.



    Actually, finding and reporting bugs isn't the primary purpose of the insider preview. If that's what you're doing you're wasting your time. MS has their own professional testing staff that delivers far more useful, reproducible and actionable bug reports than the community ever could. What you should be reporting on are things you do or don't like. That is far more interesting to MS.
    The "Loading..." issue has taken on occasion 60-120 minutes to return, and only after I tried turning on airplane mode, putting it into battery saver, etc., etc.

    I consider that a critical error and in a project manager capacity would immediately request a new build and not keep a garbage build in front of my users.

    You can quote "the entire software industry" all you want, you are wrong.

    If finding errors/bugs is not at least part of the purpose of the Insider Preview, then yes, I guess all of us participating are just wasting our time. But I don't believe that you are correct. MS has set up the Insider Feedback app exactly for the purpose of receiving such feedback from Insiders.

    "you can rant all you want" - it is unfortunate that, as a moderator, you need to revert once again to comments like this to defend your points.

    My post was in no way a rant, but simply outlining the reasons I agree with the OP, in this case of build 10512, more than 2 weeks is too long between builds, especially given MS's statements of expecting faster release of builds.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-07-2015 at 06:05 AM. Reason: removed public discussion of moderatorial actions
    09-06-2015 07:57 PM
  13. xsonwong's Avatar
    Even the fast build got some known issue and other small bugs, we still not happy with the build quality.
    I believe the QA team in MS met a bigger problem in recent build which blocks the release.
    You won't want a broken build (actually current fast ring is already broken).

    Moreover, seems current build is from latest Windows 10 Branch (TH2), which means thousand of developer will make changes everyday.
    In fast develop cycle now (compare with old Windows Release Cycle), we will be difficult to have stable release, things keep changing everyday.
    09-06-2015 09:31 PM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    The "Loading..." issue has taken on occasion 60-120 minutes to return, and only after I tried turning on airplane mode, putting it into battery saver, etc., etc.

    I consider that a critical error and in a project manager capacity would immediately request a new build and not keep a garbage build in front of my users.

    You can quote "the entire software industry" all you want, you are wrong.
    In the same sentence you mentioned multiple instances of the device being slow and exhibiting delays. You implied all of those instances of "slowness" should prompt MS to release a new build ASAP. Unless all of them are on the scale of hours rather than seconds, I'd still consider your contributions here to be more about your need to vent and rant rather than your desire to have a serious discussion.

    However, I'd obviously agree that the start screen not showing up for one or two hours, provided that's regular behaviour and wasn't just a single freak occurrence, deserves to be fixed quickly. That does make it impossible to test the device in a tolerable amount of time so that does constitute a critical bug/error. Then again, I've not seen such behaviour on any device running W10M myself, nor am I aware of anyone else reporting such behaviour. If you're the only one seeing this then it's not critical either.

    All of this complies with the standard definition of what constitutes a critical error. Unless you can show otherwise I don't see how I can be wrong here. At worst I misunderstood a very poorly worded bug-report.

    If finding errors/bugs is not at least part of the purpose of the Insider Preview, then yes, I guess all of us participating are just wasting our time. But I don't believe that you are correct. MS has set up the Insider Feedback app exactly for the purpose of receiving such feedback from Insiders.
    There is no harm in reporting bugs. However, 99% of the bugs the community reports are typically the same things being reported over and over again, almost all of which MS will already have been aware of long before the build was even released. W10 also comes with a lot of technical infrastructure which reports critical bugs automatically, and those are a lot more useful than anything we as users could provide.

    How the community (as a whole) likes/dislikes changes being made to W10M is a lot more interesting to MS than our bug reports. Believe it or don't believe it. Both are fine by me.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-07-2015 at 06:28 AM. Reason: spelling
    09-07-2015 05:36 AM
  15. daniel cooper2's Avatar
    To wrap this up in a short comment. These builds are not that good for the time it take them to release them.
    Maybe MS should hire some apple employees to get W10m on track. You need hype and outstanding marketing to get w10m off the ground. MS should know not to do a preview for the public when its nowhere near finished. W10m should have minor bugs at this point not major bugs like disappearing SD cards.
    09-07-2015 07:06 AM
  16. safariking's Avatar
    Twitter released a new button special for Gabe Aul

    1420214358754760.jpg
    Joe920 and DavidinCT like this.
    09-07-2015 09:24 AM
  17. etrosce's Avatar
    I'm not particularly concerned about the frequence for the builds but for the actual progress on them. I'm starting to get impatient.
    09-07-2015 09:59 AM
  18. ajj3085's Avatar
    Twitter released a new button special for Gabe Aul

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Its a national holiday in the USA today. Why would you expect a build today?
    09-07-2015 01:34 PM
  19. dreamglimmer's Avatar
    You think delays, being slow, and constant "resuming" and "loading" represent critical errors. Nobody in the software industry would agree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion.
    false;
    that IS a critical UX(user experience) bug. quite likely caused by underlying crash (or even made intentionally, for some special testing)

    A critical error/bug is a literal show-stopper. It's a feature that should work but doesn't, and ends up making testing impossible or meaningless. This is the definition typically used by anybody in the industry, including those who finance custom software development but aren't developers themselves.
    which matches the description perfectly :D
    you can't ship product with such bug to customers - ever. hopefully we aren't the customers, just large group of beta testers

    Granted, substantial delays can make testing a pain in the rear, but if you CAN test it, then there is no insurmountable (critical) error.
    once again, this IS Critical error, not a Fatal though ;)

    Lastly, what you think should be fixed in a matter of days and prompt MS to release a new build ASAP, may very well involve a team of people working for one or two months on SoC optimisations. What you want may simply not be possible. At least the loading/resuming issue is likely systemic, for which I doubt there is a quick/easy fix.
    more likelly - it needs specific circumstances to actually see what is happening in there, and takes lots of time/resources/test devices/testing time to see all the reasons for it, and having the proper solution for the fix

    Anyway, the point is this: you can rant all you want, but you won't get anybody at MS (or Apple, or Google, or anywhere else for that matter) to change their mind on this. The only viable alternative would be to NOT deliver a preview at all. If a majority of people adopt your view, canning the insider program is MS' only reasonable alternative, because your expectations are not realistic for software in this phase of its development.
    same goes for every rant over the internet.
    think is - we are the beta testers, not a Product Managers - we just try it, run it, tell what errors we found and what might be changed/fixed/reinvented. what and when will be actually do is not for us for sure. but what we tell - is quite important and IS heard.

    This we agree on. Apparently we disagree only on the definition of the word "prevent". A computational delay can't prevent you from testing anything. The critical error here is actually your impatience, which is easily remedied by going back to WP8.1.
    there is a workaround for this issue, but without using it it literally blocks your interaction with tested device. or renders useless all lock screen information. it does prevent phone usage.

    Actually, finding and reporting bugs isn't the primary purpose of the insider preview. If that's what you're doing you're wasting your time. MS has their own professional testing staff that delivers far more useful, reproducible and actionable bug reports than the community ever could. What you should be reporting on are things you do or don't like. That is far more interesting to MS.
    false;
    50% of bugs found could never be found by in-house testers. 70% of rest would take 2-3-4 times more time to find, than by opening beta tests. this IS for improving the product, in all possible ways - feedback, bug reports, usage telemetry and logs, update polishing, wide range of devices (and device state) testing, update servers optimization, etc

    your truly,
    not-so-old and wise
    Software Developer
    mprebich likes this.
    09-07-2015 02:16 PM
  20. safariking's Avatar
    Its a national holiday in the USA today. Why would you expect a build today?
    That was just a joke don't take it to serious please
    09-07-2015 02:19 PM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    false;
    50% of bugs found could never be found by in-house testers. 70% of rest would take 2-3-4 times more time to find, than by opening beta tests.
    If the insider preview were actually a beta test I'd agree with you. It isn't. Software that undergoes a public beta test is practically always considered feature complete and fully tested by the developer. With the developer having already put a lot of effort into QA, bug reports are obviously quite valuable since those bugs are often found in constellations the developer didn't think to look. That's not the situation we currently have with W10M.

    W10M is littered with bugs, non-functional parts, and not a single app is feature complete. MS will no doubt have long lists with thousands of issues they have yet to fix. In this state, most bug reports are just noise.

    false;
    that IS a critical UX(user experience) bug. quite likely caused by underlying crash (or even made intentionally, for some special testing)
    So you signed up on this site to tell me that being slow (whatever that means exactly, 4 seconds, 9 seconds, an hour?), exhibiting overly long loading times and overly long resuming times (both of which are very different operations), are all very likely the result of parts of W10M crashing, which MS may have done intentionally for testing purposes, which MS then left in the build before distributing it to insiders?

    Yeah... you think I could get some of whatever you're smoking?

    I'm not sure what to do with the rest of your post. I'll leave it at that.
    safariking likes this.
    09-07-2015 03:46 PM
  22. safariking's Avatar
    Im getting so tired of everyone who is complaing about Preview Builds.
    09-07-2015 04:36 PM
  23. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    If the insider preview were actually a beta test I'd agree with you. It isn't. Software that undergoes a public beta test is practically always considered feature complete and fully tested by the developer. With the developer having already put a lot of effort into QA, bug reports are obviously quite valuable since those bugs are often found in constellations the developer didn't think to look. That's not the situation we currently have with W10M.

    W10M is littered with bugs, non-functional parts, and not a single app is feature complete. MS will no doubt have long lists with thousands of issues they have yet to fix. In this state, most bug reports are just noise.



    So you signed up on this site to tell me that being slow (whatever that means exactly, 4 seconds, 9 seconds, an hour?), exhibiting overly long loading times and overly long resuming times (both of which are very different operations), are all very likely the result of parts of W10M crashing, which MS may have done intentionally for testing purposes, which MS then left in the build before distributing it to insiders?

    Yeah... you think I could get some of whatever you're smoking?

    I'm not sure what to do with the rest of your post. I'll leave it at that.
    Well that's the thing.. Microsoft took a closed beta and made a public beta of it. Starting with XP if I am not mistaken may have been win 2000 but I don't think so.. Lol.. If I'm wrong don't flame me just correct me lmao..
    09-07-2015 04:50 PM
  24. jhildy73's Avatar
    Coming from a ton of android devices I would rather them take their time and get ALL the bugs out. I originally had a LG g2 on jelly bean but on kit Kat and lolipop the phone actually got worse..you hope for a stable OS.trust me
    09-07-2015 05:03 PM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    Well that's the thing.. Microsoft took a closed beta and made a public beta of it. Starting with XP if I am not mistaken may have been win 2000 but I don't think so.. Lol.. If I'm wrong don't flame me just correct me lmao..
    Unfortunately, I don't understand what you're trying to point out. Sorry. :-)
    09-07-2015 06:06 PM
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