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09-11-2015 12:00 PM
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  1. RayWP7's Avatar
    Slow as hell relative to what? They each really mean "stable" and "less stable" they never committed to any timing restrictions as to what they actually mean. I do wish people would grow up and stop behaving like a bunch of brats. We're all eager, but seriously. OS may have launched and so one would think they could divert ALL of their resources to mobile. But it isn't so clear and cut. Further more, if recent reports are remotely true, W10 is on 80+million devices. It makes sense to pander to people using LIVE PRODUCT. We're using technical previews which was done to help collect feedback and test. And that's what we're doing. If you're worried about your daily driver affected by bugs (which cannot possibly be as dire as to whine so), then you probably shouldn't be signed up for the voluntary program.
    09-08-2015 10:13 PM
  2. dreamglimmer's Avatar
    Tell that to Apple, Google and the thousands of other companies developing consumer software that don't provide a program similar to the insider preview. Are you seriously claiming they are all stuck in 2005?
    ahha...
    apple? do you remember apple maps? do you remember 'you are holding it wrong', bend gate, wifi issues and bunch of other stuff in EACH X.0 version of iOS?
    google? do you remember how useless is most of their 1.0 versions? and yeah, since that they never use major releases, just small iterative ones, that can break small things, but fix them soon as well. do you remember gmail after all? how many years it had BETA right over it name?
    do you know that developers in both mentioned companies CAN and DO install prerelease mobile OS builds for testing, but unfortunately for them - dont have this powerful feedback system.

    If you're developing custom software or work in the enterprise space
    false;
    i'm talking about public customer software. i'm talking about giants like gmail, salesforce, Facebook, AAA MMO titles - everything that involves a lot of users in release and needs large fraction of that users at tests as well.


    You can't do that with consumers. As you can see in these forums, a lot of people have difficulty dealing with the raw results.
    false;
    you are NOT a customer. did you read licence agreement for Tech Preview?
    you are voluntary member of dev team, with limited rights and limited access to builds, but still a member of dev team. you ARE NOT a genius, that got pricy product for free before anyone could buy it - that's the problem for all complainers. you can REPORT bug, but you have no rights to COMPLAIN about it.


    I think you're taking textbook passages from an agile programming course and wanting to rigorously apply those methodologies to any situation you encounter. People just aren't machines. You have to adjust depending on who your customers are. It has nothing to do with 2005 vs 2015. People haven't changed that much in that time.
    there is yet no book about methodology and approach that MS is using on us in TP program. it's not agile as it's written in books, it's [partially] new invention. and yeah, people dont understand HOW they are being used, for being able to sell product better, to have better marketing image - for free.
    ofc, as side effect, everyone gets better product at the end.
    but this IS genius adjustment of process for the customers, which (for WM10) we are still not - it's not released yet.
    skt_diaz and xandros9 like this.
    09-09-2015 12:36 AM
  3. calbro's Avatar
    Well, that's no different than Apple whose followers were looking for the next iteration of the iphone.

    Is it wrong for Microsoft followers to have exuberance during a refreshing of the products and services of which this iteration may be as important as any in the company's history.
    mprebich likes this.
    09-09-2015 05:50 AM
  4. mprebich's Avatar
    Well, that's no different than Apple whose followers were looking for the next iteration of the iphone.

    Is it wrong for Microsoft followers to have exuberance during a refreshing of the products and services of which this iteration may be as important as any in the company's history.
    Thanks.

    Exuberance, yes. In addition, significant investment in MS platforms - corporate and personal.

    (not to get OT here, but MS losing the mobile war could mean substantial risk to their desktop and mobile platform also. but we can go to other threads for that discussion.)
    09-09-2015 06:51 AM
  5. tangledW's Avatar
    I'm basing it off what they promised us in the email. They said after the Windows 10 for PC was Released there would be more frequent updates. Nothing has changed. It's been over a month since Windows 10 for the PC has been released now. What changed? There's been more pc builds in that time than mobile. So I can't expect them to live up to their promises?
    This is a reoccurring thing here. "Promises".

    There was no promise.
    a5cent likes this.
    09-09-2015 07:21 AM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    there is yet no book about methodology and approach that MS is using on us in TP program. it's not agile as it's written in books, it's [partially] new invention. and yeah, people don't understand HOW they are being used, for being able to sell product better, to have better marketing image - for free.
    Despite claiming everything I say is wrong, you've practically made my case for me by affirming that MS' process is rather novel for consumer oriented software. You're therefore asserting that the methodology used for releasing insider previews is at least somewhat different from how Apple and Google release software. My point exactly...

    The fact that for Apple and Google some bugs also slip through the cracks (antennagate, bendgate, etc) is irrelevant. Some bugs will always slip through, no matter how "perfect" the development methodology used is, because people aren't perfect. That doesn't mean everyone is using the same approach.

    The difference is in the intentions! No matter how small Google's and Apple's iterations are, the intent during each is to deliver finished, fully tested and usable/reliable software. The results are never perfect, and sometimes things fail completely, yet that is the intent. Why is it so hard to understand that this is not the intent of the insider previews?

    Why is it so hard to understand that the acceptance criteria for the release of a W10M preview build are different from, say, business critical financial software? Not just because of the methodologies used, but also due to the completely different set of technical challenges each pose?

    You simply can't rip out the guts of an OS and replace them with other "organs" and expect that along the way, you'll be able to deliver largely functional interim results, in the way you could if you were developing something far higher up the software stack, like an app, or gmail.

    Neither Google nor Apple have ever done this type of publicly visible low-level consumer software development. I doubt they will anytime soon, so I guess according to you, they are stuck in 2005. :-/ I think both Apple and Google are right in their approach. Not sure about MS, considering how many don't understand it.

    Anyway, I see this discussion is likely to go nowhere. Probably not much sense in continuing...
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-09-2015 at 08:17 PM. Reason: changed the part I quoted
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    09-09-2015 07:33 AM
  7. daniel cooper2's Avatar
    No new build this week. WOW
    09-09-2015 10:16 AM
  8. DavidinCT's Avatar
    No new build this week. WOW
    The only hope here is they are putting their full weight behind it working on it....Next build could feel like an RTM with just very minor issues...

    At least we can hope..
    09-09-2015 11:08 AM
  9. fredd's Avatar
    I have always said that the people who are complaining about the builds taking so long are the same ones who complain the most about the build not working to their liking.
    09-09-2015 11:17 AM
  10. Sedp23's Avatar
    No new build this week. WOW

    https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/641631224113577984
    tut1234 likes this.
    09-09-2015 11:22 AM
  11. mjyumping's Avatar
    Build 10536 is a candidate for this week.
    09-09-2015 11:29 AM
  12. tut1234's Avatar
    No new build this week. WOW
    There is still tomorrow :-)
    09-09-2015 11:38 AM
  13. mprebich's Avatar
    In the case of the next build and accordingly to Microsoft/Gabel, YES, too slow, or at least, "longer than expected".


    An update on Windows 10 Insider Mobile Preview builds | Blogging Windows

    September 9, 2015 10:57 am / by Gabe Aul
    An update on Windows 10 Insider Mobile Preview builds

    "... We are pushing hard to get a build out this week, but I thought that since the time between builds is longer than we expected I would share a few more details with you about what’s been going on here behind the scenes. ..."
    09-09-2015 08:53 PM
  14. daniel cooper2's Avatar
    There is still tomorrow :-)
    Told you
    09-11-2015 12:00 PM
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