W10M preview builds released too slowly

[Zulfigar]

Wait, so everyone is complaining about the apps on here? Why not take the time and complain about the apps on an app that was made specifically for this situation? Windows Feedback, then link us the "feedback" you left and get the ball rolling that way?

 

[Rich215]

I cant believe the amount of complaining about the builds. We are lucky enough to even have Microsoft do this for us! The preview's are not supposed to be air tight and close to perfect OS variations. It's nice to be able to have the Insider Program to be part of the formulation of Win10 mobile. What other company has done anything like this for its users?

The insider program allows us to be part of the development and feedback for Win10 mobile, no matter how much apart we users get to play in it is only anyone's guess unless they are part of the MSFT employees working on this.

Please try not to be so negative because the builds are not coming out fast enough for your patience...or lack there of. If you dont like using the builds....go back to the previous OS version. I have 2 phones and use 8.1 and 10 on the other. I got 0 complaints or worries about not being able to function day to day with either.

 

[mprebich]

Okay. Thanks for the quote.

Build	Announced
10166	July 10, 2015
10512	August 12, 2015

Based on the quote from Gabe Aul, it seems reasonable to expect the next build to release in less than one month's time after 10512.

At the very least that quote and the above dates invalidate Sedp23's claim that nothing has changed. It's yet too early to know if anything has changed. Build 10152 was release just 2.5 weeks ago. It also invalidates the claim that MS is slow, although attempting to judge that solely on the frequency of preview builds is rather ridiculous either way.

I think some here falsely expect to see preview builds appear regularly, every so-and-so number of weeks. That's just not how the insider preview program is setup to work. If you know nothing about software development it's probably impossible to imagine how and why. You'll just have to accept that preview builds aren't scheduled to materialize at any particular time. They'll materialize when they do. All MS can tell us is that they'll release it to the fast ring when one does.

Build 10512 has some serious issue(s) with the Lockscreen (delay in painting the screen) and Start screen (significant number of testers reporting "Loading..." and "Resuming...").

I equate these major class of errors (we can consider them "errors"/bugs as they definitely are not the expected outcome of the test scenario) to a critical bug that needs to be addressed with a critical fix (not a 3 weeks later fix).

If a bug prevents a significant number of testers (Windows Insiders in this case) from accessing the system, testing core functionalities and new features/improvements (such as the Lockscreen and Start screen bugs do), then you immediately address the bug and release a next build, so that testing can resume in earnest.

To me, for this reason, and this reason alone, I feel a new build is long overdue, after 2.5 weeks.

But you already know all that, as (I guess, a software developer) given that you have on occasion deferred to the answer of "If you know nothing about software development", or something to that effect, as a comeback.

If the Windows Insider Preview Program is truly for the purpose of testing by interested users prior to release and incorporating feedback into the product, then you would expect that MS would want to get the most out of the process.

 

[flowkidd]

The way I see it, is that they are using the preview to get people to test the product, otherwise what's the point of having this preview if they can just test the thing in house and leave us in the dark?

I think that they can release updates sooner than 1 month because its a preview for insiders, not the mainstream. All builds have been buggy, why not keep releasing buggy builds, in order to get feedback before it's too late and the OS sucks which is where it's leaning towards.

Android has features that makes W10M look like its from 2012 which is sad. Things like true multitasking and default apps are still not on Windows 10 Mobile. There is no excuse and say what you want about Android but if you can't recognize that even Android 4.0 mops the floor with W10M or WP8.1, you are living in denial.

 

[mrdoubleb]

I would just spin the OP's post a bit differently: the lack of more frequent builds is a bit worrying due to the current state of WM 10.

As my 930 has been sent off for repair, I dusted off a L620 and felt adventurous enough to join the preview community and install 10512. Granted, this is not a high end phone and only has 512 ram, but the OS is very very slow, i spend more time "resuming" to the main screen than ever before, switching between apps is terrible and there are plenty of crashes in Edge and sometimes even while resuming the start screen.

Now, i fully understand this is beta, plus probably has stuff running in the background catching bugs and writing logs, reporting back to the mothership, but, I was hoping we would see some quick improvements released as we are so close to release. If the October date is real for the new WM10 flagships, I have a hard time seeing how they will meet that at the current pace. Maybe it will be 99% done with that, but it is not likely.

 

[Rising Mos]

Windows 10 Desktop saw similar slowdown in builds before the release. They do optimizations near the end of the development cycle and they were pretty good at it in the desktop side. So hopefully, it will be good in one month time.

 

[flowkidd]

Windows 10 Desktop saw similar slowdown in builds before the release. They do optimizations near the end of the development cycle and they were pretty good at it in the desktop side. So hopefully, it will be good in one month time.

The ONLY difference is that the Desktop OS was NEVER this buggy. NEVER. Which shows the quality of the W10M team.

 

[Ian_Superfly]

The ONLY difference is that the Desktop OS was NEVER this buggy. NEVER. Which shows the quality of the W10M team.

Quality OR the number of people doing the work...
Do we know the relation between the number of developers making the new Android/iOS/W10M?

I fear Apple puts a lot more resources (and quality?) in their next system (my feel only, do we know/have a way to estimate this?)

 

[seb_r]

The number of builds is not as important as the progress they make with each new build. But both cannot be seen here with Win10mobile and if you have been in the insider preview of the desktop version....this is just pathetic what happens here. More than obvious they driving with handbrake on and not trying to compete with other mobile systems or devices. It is unfortunately the true spirit of a technical preview: showing what is technically possible without the need to get this out to the consumers.
I not believe they cut down the plan of Win10mobile but it will take veeery long to roll out.
As a company it its only logical to focus on the desktop version: it is officially released and MS still play an important role in desktop market. While for mobile devices and OS the ship is already sunk.
Don't get me wrong, I would like to see Win10mobile on my 1520 also asap but I am realistic about it. And judging by the progress the OS made and the current status I not expect a release before mid 2016 unless they strip it down to the most basic functions and provide them later on with updates.
Maybe we will see a presentation with the new flagships soon. But when they become available in stores along with RTM status of the OS is a completely different story.

 

[Sunparm]

That's true all they believe is to test new apps on other platforms and even release an updated apps on other platforms, to be honest we insiders are just waiting for new builds but all Microsoft is doing is kept us waiting and waiting.

 

[Sunparm]

Guys has anyone tried and tested new updated Skype app on android or ios, its great with all new UI and features but for our own platform we just have the old same version.

To be honest I really do not understand why Microsoft is not releasing new and updated apps on their own platform first and then on other platform afterwards or even at the same time.

 

[seb_r]

Embrace your enemy if you have no power

 

[a5cent]

To be honest I really do not understand why Microsoft is not releasing new and updated apps on their own platform first and then on other platform afterwards or even at the same time.

If MS released all the stuff for WP8.x that they are currently releasing for iOS and Android, they'd have to rewrite all those apps again after W10M goes live. Why? Because MS needs all their W10M apps to be universal apps, and that is what they are working on right now (for both W10M and W10), but universal apps don't run on WP8.x! That's why we're not seeing their current mobile related efforts materialize on WP8.x

If MS did what you are suggesting, they'd have to spend millions on software none of us would use after the rewritten universal apps have caught up, not to mention that this would also delay the appearance of those universal apps on W10 which would be a disaster. That's a very bad idea. Sure, we might want MS to update WP8.x apps now and be ready with the universal apps when W10M launches too, but no company has unlimited resources and no company is in the habit of wasting millions on something that benefits <3% of the market for mere months and is then deleted never to be looked at again.

It's that simple.

After W10M has been out for a few months, if these apps continue to lag considerably behind iOS and Android, then I'll be right there with you.

 

[seb_r]

How can you be so sure it is the reason? There is no official info about the release date of W10M. And from what we see in the TP it will take a while to reach RTM status. Also it is an ongoing situation for very long time already that the Android apps of MS receive more frequently updates and have functionalities that their WP counterpart lacks.
If they, according to what you said, simply wait for W10M to roll out then at least they could keep their apps for Windows RT up to date which they also not do (remember: no Win10 for Windows RT). But they don't do that either, simply because it is a dying platform just like W10M.
In fact WP8 apps are prettymuch left behind / abandoned while W10M is not even in sight.
I welcome their effort to step into the Android world. Also the release of Cortana for Android.

 

[DavidinCT]

So far 10512 seems over all pretty good, no deal killer bugs, the only annoyance is notifcations and battery life...

 

[anon(5383410)]

Didn't this guy make a thread like a week ago saying he was done with Windows Phone? Is he trolling or something?

 

[a5cent]

Build 10512 has some serious issue(s) with the Lockscreen (delay in painting the screen) and Start screen (significant number of testers reporting "Loading..." and "Resuming...").

I equate these major class of errors (we can consider them "errors"/bugs as they definitely are not the expected outcome of the test scenario) to a critical bug that needs to be addressed with a critical fix (not a 3 weeks later fix).

You think delays, being slow, and constant "resuming" and "loading" represent critical errors. Nobody in the software industry would agree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion.

A critical error/bug is a literal show-stopper. It's a feature that should work but doesn't, and ends up making testing impossible or meaningless. This is the definition typically used by anybody in the industry, including those who finance custom software development but aren't developers themselves. Having to wait longer than you'd like for an app to resume doesn't qualify.

Granted, substantial delays can make testing a pain in the rear, but if you CAN test it, then there is no insurmountable (critical) error.

Lastly, what you think should be fixed in a matter of days and prompt MS to release a new build ASAP, may very well involve a team of people working for one or two months on SoC optimisations. What you want may simply not be possible. At least the loading/resuming issue is likely systemic, for which I doubt there is a quick/easy fix.

Anyway, the point is this: you can rant all you want, but you won't get anybody at MS (or Apple, or Google, or anywhere else for that matter) to change their mind on this. The only viable alternative would be to NOT deliver a preview at all. If a majority of people adopt your view, canning the insider program is MS' only reasonable alternative, because your expectations are not realistic for software in this phase of its development.

If a bug prevents a significant number of testers (Windows Insiders in this case) from accessing the system, testing core functionalities and new features/improvements (such as the Lockscreen and Start screen bugs do), then you immediately address the bug and release a next build, so that testing can resume in earnest.

This we agree on. Apparently we disagree only on the definition of the word "prevent". A computational delay can't prevent you from testing anything. The critical error here is actually your impatience, which is easily remedied by going back to WP8.1.

If the Windows Insider Preview Program is truly for the purpose of testing by interested users prior to release and incorporating feedback into the product, then you would expect that MS would want to get the most out of the process.

Actually, finding and reporting bugs isn't the primary purpose of the insider preview. If that's what you're doing you're wasting your time. MS has their own professional testing staff that delivers far more useful, reproducible and actionable bug reports than the community ever could. What you should be reporting on are things you do or don't like. That is far more interesting to MS.

 

[a5cent]

How can you be so sure it is the reason? There is no official info about the release date of W10M.

I have no idea if that is directed at me or not. Either way, W10M does have a scheduled release date:

http://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile/377693-w10m-release-dates-answers-inside.html

If they, according to what you said, simply wait for W10M to roll out then at least they could keep their apps for Windows RT up to date which they also not do (remember: no Win10 for Windows RT). But they don't do that either, simply because it is a dying platform just like W10M.

There is absolutely no relationship between RT and W10M. Zero. Nothing. Zilch. Trying to infer anything about W10M by how MS treats RT makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Vincent McLaughlin]

It is done when it's done. WP is not playing an important role for the company since it not gained any serious marketshare. And there is no evidence that this will change with the release of Win10 mobile. They focus on the desktop version.
Those who craving for Win10 mobile are mostly those fanboys who praise anything that MS delivers to them, no matter what and when, and like it.
So really no need for MS to rush.

I'm a ******, but do agree that the crying is annoying. It's a technical preview and that fact that we have been getting them about once a month instead of once every 3-6. Then the same people complain, when their phone doesn't act right. I imagine they think the developers are just sitting on builds and release them at their leisure.

 

[ajj3085]

The way I see it, is that they are using the preview to get people to test the product, otherwise what's the point of having this preview if they can just test the thing in house and leave us in the dark?

I think that they can release updates sooner than 1 month because its a preview for insiders, not the mainstream. All builds have been buggy, why not keep releasing buggy builds, in order to get feedback before it's too late and the OS sucks which is where it's leaning towards.

Android has features that makes W10M look like its from 2012 which is sad. Things like true multitasking and default apps are still not on Windows 10 Mobile. There is no excuse and say what you want about Android but if you can't recognize that even Android 4.0 mops the floor with W10M or WP8.1, you are living in denial.

Because too many people complaining could cause some bad press, or drive people out of the insiders program, defeating the purpose of it.

The other thing is that's its labor day weekend. No software company is stupid enough to release anything in the us right before then, possibly even two weeks. Its just too risky that a major showstopper goes out then, and no one wants to work over a holiday weekend to fix something like that.