09-17-2015 08:46 AM
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  1. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    No i think the next update after Windows 10 will fix everything except maybe the update after that and so on.

    Classic soon and will attitude will be shown here until the very last WP user commits suicide 😅
    09-09-2015 10:09 AM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    Most of us are not looking for "miracles" we are just looking for standards that have been available for EVERY OTHER PHONE. If they want to be Number 2 or 3 in the smart phone world, they NEED to have the options like every other phones have.
    You say you're NOT looking for a miracle, but you do want to see the same amount of accessory and app support on WM, that Android and iOS enjoy. Considering WP's market share, that would absolutely be a miracle however. Is that not a contradiction?
    N_LaRUE, HeyCori, libra89 and 2 others like this.
    09-09-2015 10:20 AM
  3. theefman's Avatar
    Be realistic. With just 2.5% marketshare (and falling), Microsoft explicitly saying they are not concerned with growing it as a business and no compelling differentiating features to look forward to nothing is going to "save' Windows Phone, its already a footnote in the mobile industry.
    09-09-2015 10:50 AM
  4. tangledW's Avatar
    Be realistic. With just 2.5% marketshare (and falling), Microsoft explicitly saying they are not concerned with growing it as a business and no compelling differentiating features to look forward to nothing is going to "save' Windows Phone, its already a footnote in the mobile industry.
    I don't have any hope for taking market share, particularly in the US, but Continuum is a competing feature and market share it's still growing in Europe and South America.
    09-09-2015 11:54 AM
  5. slivy58's Avatar
    People complain because they feel they have ownership, because they have a WP. That is all. If they didn't they wouldn't care. The fact there are other OSs available seems to allude them. But it's no different than feeling you have ownership in a sports team or any other 'brand'.
    Umm, I do have ownership if only a smidgen, where do you think most of the money I doled out for WPs went, into thin air? MS isn't where they are today because investors thought they'd throw in some money just for the hell of it, they invested because MS has/had good ideas and products that would sell, and who bought those products, you and I along with millions of others, so yeah, I do believe those that "supported" MS over the years do have a say because "WE" made them what they are today.
    09-09-2015 11:55 AM
  6. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    To address the original question, I really, really really want W10M to save the Windows phone. HOWEVER, I am so disappointed by the way all the fantastic UI innovations in WP8.1 have been abandoned in W10M (yes, I KNOW it's a beta, but the direction is clear). I really dislike using it; it's like a crude copy of Android, and I'd rather use a real Android phone than this. With sorrow I've rolled back to WP8.1 and expect to stay there.

    This sacrifice was necessary, apparently, in order to support the "universal app" concept, with a common user experience across all three platforms (desktop, tablet, phone). Personally I am EXTREMELY sceptical that this will work for apps with any decent functionality.

    Take Outlook 2013, for instance. It's a complex desktop app with a lot of functionality and a complex UI. It would be a VAST amount of work to design a new UI for it that would kick in when the software found itself on a tablet, and yet another UI that would take over on a phone. In fact it seems inconceivable that Outlook 2013 could ever be useable on a 5" screen.

    This is true of a whole range of Windows desktop applications - the idea that the developers will manage to make a reasonably functional app that will span all three platforms is for the birds, in my view. I think most of them will only ever span two (desktop/tablet, or tablet/phone). Maybe that is all it takes, but we seem to have made a big sacrifice in the UI in order to enjoy the "benefits" of universal apps. (Exactly the same is true of programs written in Java, for example: multi-platform, so a crap lowest-common-denominator UI.)

    Microsoft make great play of "One experience, all platforms". But is "one experience" REALLY that important? Apple and Google have managed extremely well so far without it.

    So no, I don't think W10M will save the Windows phone. I think it COULD have done, but Microsoft have blown it. I am deeply saddened by that: I wanted W10M to be a super-polished version of WP8.1, and I guess we'll never get to see that.
    09-09-2015 12:08 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    This sacrifice was necessary, apparently, in order to support the "universal app" concept, with a common user experience across all three platforms (desktop, tablet, phone). Personally I am EXTREMELY sceptical that this will work for apps with any decent functionality.
    off topic:

    This is a bit of an urban legend around here, but it's pretty much malarkey. If anything, we can "thank":

    a) Islandwood
    b) Astoria and
    c) developers seeking to target all three platforms with a single app

    for the upcoming change in UI paradigms. MS' UAP is not to blame here.

    If MS controlled the UIs most developers are targeting with their mobile apps, we'd likely have gotten an improved Metro rather than a UI who's primary goal is to not stray too far from iOS and Android conventions.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-09-2015 at 01:53 PM. Reason: formatting only
    09-09-2015 12:43 PM
  8. Jas Holden's Avatar
    Windows still owns Business. Balmer and his nutty ideas tried to kill MS with Win8 and failed.

    Win10 is succeeding....and was badly needed by business. Win10Mobile has a good chance of increasing market share as more Bosses realize that Win10M fits into the Business Plan. Phones that match Win10 and have Continuum.

    MS, give business the phones that we need and don't try to make them too expensive.
    09-09-2015 01:37 PM
  9. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    If anything, we can "thank":

    a) Islandwood
    b) Astoria and
    c) developers seeking to target all three platforms with a single app

    for the upcoming change in UI paradigms. MS' UAP is not to blame here.
    .
    Actually that's incredibly helpful and I'm very happy to stand corrected. In summary, then, you're saying the changes in W10M are primarily to make it easier to port iOS and Android apps to W10M, yes?

    That's the trade-off: no more WP8.1 design language, in exchange for plenty more apps.

    That sounds totally believable. I must say, it's a hell of a risk; they've deliberately thrown away their crown jewels (the WP8.1 design language) on the gamble that they'll get more apps over to W10M. If those developers STILL don't bother to port their apps, then Microsoft loses both ways: no Unique Selling Point (the WP8.1 design language) and no apps either.

    FWIW, I wish they hadn't done that. I chose a Windows Phone because of it's gorgeous UI and design language. Now it looks so much like Android and iOS I can't see any point in using it. Might as well go for the real thing (Android, in my case).

    Incidentally, I don't believe it's the lack of apps that is the reason for Windows phones not selling well. I think it's to do with the market already being saturated when Windows Phone launched; and to do with Android and iOS getting there YEARS before, so by now everybody has invested their time and money, and their learning efforts, in those two platforms. I think Microsoft's USP, although brilliant in WP8.1, simply wasn't enough to pull people out of their comfort zones.

    That's why I think this gamble will fail. Even if it succeeds, we'll just end up with another iOS/Android look-alike. Yawn.

    I can't tell you how upset I am about W10M. I so wanted to stick with Microsoft and Windows phone. But it'll be WP8.1 for now, and Android for my next phone.
    a5cent and wizzackr like this.
    09-09-2015 02:40 PM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    Just one point: if I remember correctly android launched in 2008 with the G1 so Microsoft was just 2 years behind but clearly didn't focus enough on WP and android ran away with the market. Being late AND lazy is what killed them.


    Sent from my Lumia 1020
    Ian_Superfly likes this.
    09-09-2015 03:20 PM
  11. vipme's Avatar
    Do you think w10m is going to save windows phone?
    Windows 10 maybe not, but the way the carriers are changing their business model might hurt Apple and Samsung and help Windows Phone increase market share.

    Thanks to the unique position of wireless carriers in the smartphone market, Apple (and to a lesser extent its rivals) have enjoyed heightened US adoption thanks to the carrier subsidy model. When smartphones first came out it wasn’t a given that everyone would jump to an expensive data plan. To drive adoption major carriers like Verizon and AT&T decided to subsidize smartphone purchases in exchange for locking customers into a 2 year contract. This model was beneficial for iPhone sales in several ways.

    The overall cost of owning an expensive phone and upgrading regularly was now lower. Since the monthly data bill did not change whether you were under contract or not, all consumers were encouraged to always upgrade to the latest model as soon as possible. iPhone owners enjoyed a third perk, as iPhones on average cost more than their competitors. Since the carriers decided to make the initial contract fee $200 regardless of whether you were signing up for a $700 iPhone or $500 Android device, iPhone users were effectively being subsidized by non-iPhone users.

    All of these benefits are about to end. As smartphones have gone mainstream, carriers no longer need to subsidize the phones to get users to pay for data plans. To them it doesn’t matter if you have the latest iPhone or your old phone from 2 years ago. This is why they have been moving towards a monthly installment model and Verizon, the nation’s biggest, recently announced an end to all phone subsidies and contracts. Instead subscribers can now either bring in their own phone, pay full price for a new one or go on an installment plan where they pay the full cost of the phone in monthly increments.

    This move from Verizon is bad for all smartphone makers because for the first time consumers are forced to choose how much they spend on a new phone. Back when all new phones still cost $200 the incentive was to choose the most expensive option (which was almost always an iPhone) and to upgrade regularly. But now by using an old phone or choosing a cheaper one consumers can save money. Those savings occur either all up front or on a monthly basis, so the likelihood of impulse purchases of the latest and thus most expensive models will go down. If a user doesn’t upgrade at all their monthly bill will drop substantially once their existing phone is paid off, making the cost of a new phone that much more apparent.

    As the dominant market leader and the company with the biggest margins Apple has the most to lose to these changing industry dynamics. Premium brands always benefit the most from an industry subsidy, but when that subsidy ends, they suffer the most. It would be one thing if Apple could counter the de facto price increase on all iPhones going forward with significant improvements, but alas the commoditization of smartphones in general means those days are behind us. Consumers are about to be asked to pay more for a phone that stands out less.
    Schnuffi and Chintan Gohel like this.
    09-09-2015 04:24 PM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    In summary, then, you're saying the changes in W10M are primarily to make it easier to port iOS and Android apps to W10M, yes?
    Yes, exactly.

    I'm not too vocal about this, but I'm with you all the way on all those points, not just the summary.

    The biggest risk involved in all this is that of most WP devs walking out on WP entirely. Every WP app developer I've spoken to is waiting for Islandwood or Astoria. If they prove to work as advertised, devs will contemplate deriving their WP app from iOS or Android and trashing their WP efforts.

    If most developers go with Astoria, this would signify not only the death of apps that abide by WP standards (i.e. use native WP features to their fullest), but the death of MS' universal apps vision as well, because Astoria ported apps are not universal apps. IMHO Astoria is a huge mistake that should be trashed immediately, or at least severely restricted in its use. Islandwood is a lot more interesting as the results should run on MS' UAP platform without requiring any additional runtime support/quasi-emulation like Astoria apps do.

    Astoria is like a poison which will calm you if used in moderation, but is guaranteed to kill you if the dosage is too high. The risks involved here are staggering, as this involves far more than just WP. For most consumers the only thing that counts is the prospect of getting more apps on their WP devices. There's nothing wrong with that, but balancing the needs of consumers with those of Microsoft's entire ecosystem will be difficult.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-10-2015 at 02:06 AM. Reason: spelling
    wizzackr likes this.
    09-09-2015 04:29 PM
  13. nycny's Avatar
    Hoping for it. I have been a stalwart endorser of Windows Mobile way back to the Cassiopeia days. Who on this board has an idea what I am taking about? Most of you are too young.
    Some will choose to be ugly with my choice. I am choosing to leave. I should have left when most everyone on XDA moved to Android.
    I could have kept hacking and cracking. I just wanted an OS that works, without all the extra.
    I chose to stay. Windows mobile 6.5 cancelled.
    Windows Mobile 7.0 cancelled. Windows Mobile 8, as good as all the others, about to be cancelled.
    As in the beginning, I am looking for an OS that just works. Considering this history, Windows 8.1 just works and it's about to be retired again.
    Need to get off the roller coaster.
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    09-09-2015 04:47 PM
  14. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    No, I don't. At least, it won't for a long time. Microsoft's not even going to finish the OS before it launches, and the hardware is basically the bare minimum necessary to call the things "flagship" devices. These 950 siblings will not be commercially successful, with the best hopes being the Surface Phone (if it handles x86 software) and the 2016 ARM devices (if the Android and iOS compilers are out by then). I can't see W10M "saving" WP when we don't even know what kind of OS we'll end up with yet, let alone the degree of software support from third parties.
    09-09-2015 05:59 PM
  15. paulxxwall's Avatar
    Apple will again sell millions of iPhones in weeks time! No w10 will only save tab and desktop nit phones mr Rubino said himself! How will ms catch to the competition now is a mystery to him.....and to the world. But differences is 97% of the world already knew it was a mystery!
    09-09-2015 06:05 PM
  16. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Only the OEMS can save windows phone. If they flood the market with phones, people will see them everywhere and buy them. Just like they did for android. The only difference is that Windows mobile will provide people with the latest software like Apple as it will be in Microsoft's control. At least that's what they have said in the past.
    09-09-2015 06:53 PM
  17. slivy58's Avatar
    Only the OEMS can save windows phone. If they flood the market with phones, people will see them everywhere and buy them. Just like they did for android. The only difference is that Windows mobile will provide people with the latest software like Apple as it will be in Microsoft's control. At least that's what they have said in the past.
    You were dreaming again weren't you LOL.
    09-09-2015 08:01 PM
  18. Visa Declined's Avatar
    Only the OEMS can save windows phone. If they flood the market with phones, people will see them everywhere and buy them. Just like they did for android.
    Android filled in for the people who were unable to purchase an iPhone. Whether it was because the iPhone was unavailable on their carrier(Verizon: Droid Does!) or simply because they couldn't afford an iPhone to begin with. Android was in the right place at the right time, it was the every mans iPhone, and all the OEM's jumped on board because Google was giving it away for free.

    Sure, flooding the market with Windows Mobile devices would help, but you've got to convince OEM's to do that first. Some device makers have already done trial runs in the past, and very little success was to be found.

    When it comes right down to it, most of the smart phone buying world has already picked a team, and Microsoft has a tough battle ahead if they want to cause serious disruption. If Microsoft cannot build a successful phone themselves, don't expect OEM's to give it an honest effort either. Microsoft needs to design an awesome phone that really takes off, but I'm not so sure that can happen.
    09-09-2015 08:45 PM
  19. etrosce's Avatar
    Definitely not. In fact, Windows Phone does not longer exist as a brand. I don't even understand why did they get back to "Mobile" branding due the bad reputation with which "Windows Mobile" left the market before Windows Phone in late 00's.

    I know you are referring to the phone OS itself, no matter the branding, but I think Microsoft is just trying to fill a gap on their device offering with W10M. They have already resigned in the "fight" against iOS and Android... You know... If you can't beat them...

    Of course, I think Microsoft could make it even worst if they don't release a decent version of the OS. On the other hand, only if they do a brilliant work with W10M, and other OEMs jump in, there may be some future.

    I'm not feeling that confident now with the platform... but I hope to be wrong as I have always been a supporter (and user) of this third alternative in the market. I think it deserves a chance, but I don't think Microsoft did enough to deserve it.
    Ian_Superfly likes this.
    09-09-2015 09:17 PM
  20. EspHack's Avatar
    hahaha, no. what will save it is co-developing it with the main desk OS so it is the same with phone friendly UI so it stops being a burden for ms, selling downloadable roms just like they sell dvd-usb copies of normal windows so I can install-flash it in whatever device I like, preferably they keep making precious powerful lumias ^^

    in short:

    *make it just like main desk OS
    09-09-2015 09:20 PM
  21. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    Nope. never in a million years.
    09-10-2015 03:12 AM
  22. Tony Clegg's Avatar
    I really like my Lumia 925, but can't see Win 10 saving the range. It's not the OS, as it's stable, and I don't have any issues with it. There are many things that need fixing before it's general release and should bring back Office and resolve map issues.

    The main problem isn't the OS and it's features, it's the apps - or should I say lack of. There are very few new apps available and have to resort going back to my iPad for some things. I won't go back to an iPhone though, and would be great if there is an integration so that Android apps will work on the OS and become available via the Store.
    GMC262 likes this.
    09-10-2015 05:29 AM
  23. slivy58's Avatar
    I really like my Lumia 925, but can't see Win 10 saving the range. It's not the OS, as it's stable, and I don't have any issues with it. There are many things that need fixing before it's general release and should bring back Office and resolve map issues.

    The main problem isn't the OS and it's features, it's the apps - or should I say lack of. There are very few new apps available and have to resort going back to my iPad for some things. I won't go back to an iPhone though, and would be great if there is an integration so that Android apps will work on the OS and become available via the Store.
    I'm not finding the lack of apps to be the only problem, it is the whole package that fails as of late not to mention the frustrations when, lets say, Windows phone 8.1 update 2 didn't materialize for "every" handset, it added some small but welcomed features but just like Denim, it was a crapshoot as to who was going to get it, MS's approach has woefully declined in the last year+ and it is like they are tossing coins to see what their next move(s) will be... Sorry but they ain't new to the business so there are no excuses.

    I had high hopes for WP and W10M but yesterday's Apple Event highlighted the facts as to how far behind we really are, you can dis them (the big "A") all you want but the reality of it all is that they delivered, MS keeps saying they are going to but it never materializes and if it does, we end up with another "Denim like" fiasco. The thing is time is a wastin and technology waits for no one, I once was a BB fan but they too fed us lies, deceit and could never deliver, me, I jumped ship and to this day they still have not recovered, in my opinion MS is doing the same thing of sorts w/WP and W10M, if people think a few new handsets along with an new OS will be the saviour just use BB as an example and tell me if it worked for them.
    Last edited by Elky64; 09-10-2015 at 07:27 AM.
    09-10-2015 06:35 AM
  24. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Android filled in for the people who were unable to purchase an iPhone. Whether it was because the iPhone was unavailable on their carrier(Verizon: Droid Does!) or simply because they couldn't afford an iPhone to begin with. Android was in the right place at the right time, it was the every mans iPhone, and all the OEM's jumped on board because Google was giving it away for free.

    Sure, flooding the market with Windows Mobile devices would help, but you've got to convince OEM's to do that first. Some device makers have already done trial runs in the past, and very little success was to be found.

    When it comes right down to it, most of the smart phone buying world has already picked a team, and Microsoft has a tough battle ahead if they want to cause serious disruption. If Microsoft cannot build a successful phone themselves, don't expect OEM's to give it an honest effort either. Microsoft needs to design an awesome phone that really takes off, but I'm not so sure that can happen.
    Yes but they have tried one or two small time devices while the android devices were overshadowing them. MS needs to put marketing into it and all the oems have to release AT ONCE which would be an event MS plans. Because 1 device hiding within 50 others is not going to get noticed. But if there's more windows phone devices people at least see that it's good enough for it to be a high prospect investment for the oems.

    A hypothetical scenario. If OEMs drop android and only start putting out windows phones, which phones do you think people will buy? Either go to iphone or use windows. They hold quite a lot of power. Granted, that wouldn't happen. Even if Windows got priority during device releases and say had 3-4 months exclusivity for every OEM release before they released a new android device.

    It just shows they have the power to shift the balance. It's just for all of them it's a big gamble seeing how they are already profiting from android. And the ones currently releasing don't seem to be taking it very seriously. OEMS can take this time to innovate designs. A lot of them are scared to move away from designs that sell for them but with Windows phone they can play around and do some really nice designs. Do something that catches peoples' attention.
    09-10-2015 06:57 AM
  25. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Umm, I do have ownership if only a smidgen, where do you think most of the money I doled out for WPs went, into thin air? MS isn't where they are today because investors thought they'd throw in some money just for the hell of it, they invested because MS has/had good ideas and products that would sell, and who bought those products, you and I along with millions of others, so yeah, I do believe those that "supported" MS over the years do have a say because "WE" made them what they are today.
    Unless you are an investor (i.e. stock holder) you do not have any ownership at all. You're a consumer of a product. Yes MS needs customers but in the grand scheme of things WP users are a small percentage of that.

    MS is where it is today due to it's ability to win over companies and become the main provider of an OS, server software and an Office suit. They pushed their way to the top and gained trust in those companies to do things right. Without companies and only relying on consumers MS would be a lot poorer. Significantly poorer.

    So stop patting yourself on the back like you're the reason MS is doing so well. Since W8 MS lost a lot of ground and respect from companies and many refused to upgrade to it. They're hoping to change things with W10 and their focus is company centric. Which is why the Start menu is back and it's desktop focused. WP should have been geared to companies when it came out. MS should have stuck to their strong points but didn't. That's why it's all messy now. Instead they thought they could be the new Apple and failed miserably.

    So by all means. Complain if you want but you don't seem to get it. MS changed it's focus back to software. It's money maker. Because that's what investors want them to do. W10M is part of W10 OS which is how it's being 'saved'. If it weren't for that I highly doubt MS would keep it. But that's my opinion of course but I doubt I'm far off.

    When W10M comes out and when the tablet interface gets it's update (I'm guessing these two things will go hand and hand) then we can have a better conversation about things. All people are doing now are having a big whine because they believe they're right. Righteousness is not an attractive trait.
    09-10-2015 08:29 AM
124 12345

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