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04-21-2016 01:22 PM
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  1. LeFreak's Avatar
    I understand that there are human errors, but saying 90% of the PC issues totally means the design sucks.
    I don't think you understand what that statement means.
    Maurizio Troso likes this.
    03-28-2016 09:04 AM
  2. Mr Hyde's Avatar
    I totally agree that the Insiders should know what getting into the program means, but still you would think that the Insiders would like to test and provide feedback on the new features, problems that may only show up only from day-to-day/a particular usage pattern, not the same old problems that's been there, or some problems that are so easily spot just by going thru the update process and run a couple of standard apps.

    I totally understand your frustration here but isn't that why they have different rings? It just seems to me that MS is adding features and integrating them into the OS in leaps and bounds in the fast ring. Lets just say if MS were working on 10 new things that they want to add for Redstone and 3 of the teams working on those 10 things have code that needs testing, should MS wait until all other issues are fixed and all 10 new things are working, should they wait till everything is fixed and release the 3 new things with possible bugs, or should they release a new build with known issues and with the new three things so they can be tested as soon as possible? Remember... this is the fast ring we are mostly discussing. If it were me, and I had people who supposedly agreed to "test" builds for me I'd send out the latest build so those 3 things could be tested so those teams could keep working on their parts of the OS. I wouldn't want to hold those teams up waiting for other teams to get other stuff up and running perfectly.

    I'm sure MS could spend their resources on squashing minor bugs first and then adding features one at a time squashing bugs as each new feature is added but that would be a much slower process than adding many new features all at once.

    I'm not making excuses for MS (although it may seem as if I am), but what I'm seeing with the insider program is very similar to what my ex wife used to describe with her company who worked on military projects. Many teams working on a common goal but working on their own part separately. In theory things should work but in reality, when new code was added it unexpectedly broke other things. They did what they had to do to get things mostly working together and kept adding stuff until all the components were in place and then they all worked together to eliminate bugs and wrote patches once the project was near completion. I don't know anything about programming but I did get to listen to my ex complain about it all the time. Not complaining about how it was being done, but how it was a necessary evil which everyone just had to accept.

    If MS didn't issue release notes I'd understand why everyone was so annoyed. But to be honest, I really don't understand why so many people are in the fast ring if they are not willing to accept the fact that MS is going to send stuff out for testing in a manner which suits MS and not the testers.
    ven07 and ttsoldier like this.
    03-28-2016 11:55 AM
  3. 7a2eer's Avatar
    I understand that there are human errors, but saying 90% of the PC issues totally means the design sucks.
    Can you explain what you mean by design? Does the installation of a virus and or other malware count as human error? :^)
    03-28-2016 12:56 PM
  4. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Can you explain what you mean by design? Does the installation of a virus and or other malware count as human error? :^)
    Of course it is... Viruses/malware don't install for themselves.... It takes some kind of user input...

    Lets not stray off topic ;)
    ven07 and nailzer like this.
    03-28-2016 03:03 PM
  5. PF Mail's Avatar
    Of course it is... Viruses/malware don't install for themselves.... It takes some kind of user input...

    Lets not stray off topic ;)
    I wouldn't say the "installation of a virus/malware" is human error. You're right, it's going off topic.
    03-28-2016 03:59 PM
  6. PF Mail's Avatar
    I totally understand your frustration here but isn't that why they have different rings? It just seems to me that MS is adding features and integrating them into the OS in leaps and bounds in the fast ring. Lets just say if MS were working on 10 new things that they want to add for Redstone and 3 of the teams working on those 10 things have code that needs testing, should MS wait until all other issues are fixed and all 10 new things are working, should they wait till everything is fixed and release the 3 new things with possible bugs, or should they release a new build with known issues and with the new three things so they can be tested as soon as possible? Remember... this is the fast ring we are mostly discussing. If it were me, and I had people who supposedly agreed to "test" builds for me I'd send out the latest build so those 3 things could be tested so those teams could keep working on their parts of the OS. I wouldn't want to hold those teams up waiting for other teams to get other stuff up and running perfectly.

    I'm sure MS could spend their resources on squashing minor bugs first and then adding features one at a time squashing bugs as each new feature is added but that would be a much slower process than adding many new features all at once.

    I'm not making excuses for MS (although it may seem as if I am), but what I'm seeing with the insider program is very similar to what my ex wife used to describe with her company who worked on military projects. Many teams working on a common goal but working on their own part separately. In theory things should work but in reality, when new code was added it unexpectedly broke other things. They did what they had to do to get things mostly working together and kept adding stuff until all the components were in place and then they all worked together to eliminate bugs and wrote patches once the project was near completion. I don't know anything about programming but I did get to listen to my ex complain about it all the time. Not complaining about how it was being done, but how it was a necessary evil which everyone just had to accept.

    If MS didn't issue release notes I'd understand why everyone was so annoyed. But to be honest, I really don't understand why so many people are in the fast ring if they are not willing to accept the fact that MS is going to send stuff out for testing in a manner which suits MS and not the testers.
    I'm not frustrated since I'm not a die-hard Windows Phone guy. It just seems to me that the problems people are reporting are still the same UI glitches, Wi-fi dropping, lagging, etc., not to any of the new features. Yes, we're talking about the fast ring, and all these same old problems is taking focus on what the fast ring is intended, testing/find problems on new features.

    I don't mind wiping my phone 3, 4 times a month, and I don't expect the builds to be perfect, but at least doing it for something that's actually worth while.
    03-28-2016 04:39 PM
  7. Mr Hyde's Avatar
    I'm not frustrated since I'm not a die-hard Windows Phone guy. It just seems to me that the problems people are reporting are still the same UI glitches, Wi-fi dropping, lagging, etc., not to any of the new features. Yes, we're talking about the fast ring, and all these same old problems is taking focus on what the fast ring is intended, testing/find problems on new features.

    I don't mind wiping my phone 3, 4 times a month, and I don't expect the builds to be perfect, but at least doing it for something that's actually worth while.
    Once again, I see your frustration but the end game here is Redstone, not some added features. I dont think anyone can say if it was worth while or not until Redstone is either done or nearly done. With that said, each individual can determine if the ride in the fast ring is personally worth their while, which is why you have a choice.

    Oh, and for the record, not everyone is experiencing those issues. Win 10 on my 950xl is rock solid on the production build. So, it would seem that the issues you mentioned have a lower priority than other things in MS's eyes. I'm sure MS will have everything working when RS is released. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
    03-28-2016 07:44 PM
  8. Muessig's Avatar
    Seems like an appropriate place to link to some guidelines for insiders: http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...elines%5D.html
    ttsoldier and Laura Knotek like this.
    04-21-2016 12:41 AM
  9. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    I enjoy providing feedback and testing new features through this program. I understand that things will break but most issues I can live with or find a workaround.
    04-21-2016 03:40 AM
  10. Sefin's Avatar
    Yup, some people are just dumb. I am tester for living so using preview build is fun for me. I am sending feedback to MS, but I do have it on my daily driver phone.

    I am able to provide best feedback from daily use. I rolled back only from the first Redstone update as it was totally unusable as daily driver.

    Yet I understand the meaning of this program, so I reported my issues and did not complain at all, when I had to wipe my phone.

    Only one thing bothers me about this program and those are its rules - I accepted that these preview builds could actually destroy my device. This is the only thing that I do not like since I am using 950XL... :) so I took a risk that this won't happen. At least I hope :D

    Anyway, I really like this insider program and it is great when you see MS implementing stuff insiders wanted.

    They of course have a legion of beta testers for free, but we are getting better system that we love as a reward.

    Yet I would not mind at all, if they reward us with some special discounts on MS products.. :)
    04-21-2016 09:21 AM
  11. snakebitten's Avatar
    Just my opinion: The Insider Program is a huge success

    And it continues to be so, regardless of how it might be experienced by the participants.
    Or put another way, it is serving its purpose. It is driving the development and providing RICH data for the developers. (Whether the participants individually see the value or not)

    Having said that, it can be (and is) painful at times.

    For me, the good news is that I think I can actually see where it is taking me (us), in regards to personal and corporate computing in the near future. (make no mistake, Windows 10 has both agendas) I'm an old man who has been feeding my family on the back of technology-support since the days of DOS. I think this might be the most excited\entertained I've been in a very long time about what is coming down the pipe. Windows 10 is a very different critter.
    Maurizio Troso likes this.
    04-21-2016 01:18 PM
  12. swanlee's Avatar
    I find the problem of people complaining about fast ring users making threads about their problems a much bigger issue.

    Yes if we are on fast ring we know their is going to be issues, yes myself at least reports those problems in several different ways directly to MS. And yes we should be allowed to post our experiences and issues in the properly designated forums here to talk with others and expose bugs and potential work arounds. The insider forums themselves are not always the best place to actually get quick feedback from other insiders.

    To many people see a person post a bug or other issue from an insider build and fly off the handle and act like mini mods and act like we are not permitted to talk about these things here.
    Last edited by swanlee; 04-22-2016 at 06:17 AM.
    04-21-2016 01:22 PM
37 12

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