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04-21-2016 01:22 PM
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  1. ttsoldier's Avatar
    I don't understand.

    I think a lot of people have the wrong idea of the insider preview. It's not about "Getting the latest update with new features". The point of the insider preview is to provide feedback to Microsoft so they can fix the OS going forward.

    It urks me when I see people updating to the latest build then posting that "omg. ****** is not working, i'm rolling back" . How Is that helping?? In my opinion it's defeating the purpose of the insider preview. To begin with, it's not recommended to be used on your daily driver, yet you still do it. Why? Do you just want to be able to say you're part of some "elite club"?

    If you join the insider preview, stick with the build and provide feedback! This is what Microsoft is using the preview for. This is why Microsoft needs your input. I'm seeing it a lot more with people upgrade to 14295/14291 then rolling back to .164. How will Microsoft know about he problems with these builds if you roll back to .164? A lot of people roll back to 8.1 as well.

    I would also recommend that "Diagnostic and usage data" is set to full

    Come on people.. Join (and stick with) the insider preview for the right reason: To help
    Last edited by ttsoldier; 03-27-2016 at 06:54 AM.
    LeFreak, Narathan, Iain_S and 20 others like this.
    03-26-2016 06:34 AM
  2. rose58's Avatar
    I have updated my phone thru Insider and when I was not happy with the performance I went back to the previous public releases. If I was not willing to provide the feedback and put up with the minor glitches, I should not have enrolled to begin with.

    Thanks for the eye opener.
    03-26-2016 07:08 AM
  3. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    Some people (myself included) only have one phone. I opted out when I was experiencing issues with visual voicemail. I didn't make a big fuss about it or anything I just decided that I couldn't do without that functionality for work reasons and since I don't have a spare phone I opted out. I provided plenty of feedback while I was an Insider as the builds have been relatively stable and there was never anything I considered a showstopper.

    As long as people are providing useful feedback while in the program I don't see anything wrong with finding something missing in a new build that you can't live without and deciding to opt out.
    03-26-2016 09:46 AM
  4. Mr Hyde's Avatar
    I don't see any problem with people jumping into the preview program to see what its all about. People are curious. But they should read and understand the risks before they jump in and select their "ring". They should also report issues back to MS with their current build. Discussing those same issues here in the forum is generally helpful. Its also ok for anyone on the insider program to back out if they discover its too risky for them.

    What they shouldn't do is whine and complain about known issues and other issues that crop up with the build. MS doesn't have to disclose why things are "broken" even if they had previously been working. I just read here at WC on the news page that MS has now allowed users to add their xbox contacts to the people app. That's extremely cool! but now we can see why for some people the outlook contacts weren't working properly.

    MS is doing great things with Win 10 for phone. There are so many cool features being added. My wife, who is on her 3rd iPhone, has now decided to switch to Windows Phone once her contract is up. There may be an app gap with WP but there is also a features gap that most people don't talk about. And, for me, WP is leading the pack with features, which to me, far outweigh any app gap.
    03-26-2016 10:33 AM
  5. HeyCori's Avatar
    Well said, OP. The point of the Preview program isn't to get a finished first, it's to get a preview of an unfinished product.
    03-26-2016 08:37 PM
  6. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    Well, seems MSFT are leaving this insider preview the ONLY escape rope for those not offical support devices not being abandoned without UWP support. It's natural the rage and rollback and whining will increase in the future.

    And I'm really intereted, by post like this, judging others who complain - how you know they are NOT report any issues? Is it any direct linkage that complain/whining = not a responsible tester?
    03-27-2016 02:05 AM
  7. ttsoldier's Avatar
    And I'm really intereted, by post like this, judging others who complain - how you know they are NOT report any issues? Is it any direct linkage that complain/whining = not a responsible tester?
    I'm not saying everyone doesn't report but there are enough threads here. You can just tell... Especially when people post like:

    "Sooooo I just updated from 8.1 to 10568 preview. Why is *insert whatever here* not working. Windows 10 sucks. how do I get back to 8.1?"

    There is a lot of ranting and whining and complaining and rolling back in these forums.
    03-27-2016 06:16 AM
  8. xandros9's Avatar
    Yea people would love to help, but not if they can't do their basic phone stuff as well. People want updates but they also want solidity, we sometimes recommend people try it for themselves, since one person's tolerance for bugs isn't quite the same as another's.
    03-27-2016 11:26 AM
  9. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    Yea people would love to help, but not if they can't do their basic phone stuff as well. People want updates but they also want solidity, we sometimes recommend people try it for themselves, since one person's tolerance for bugs isn't quite the same as another's.
    "90% pc iussues are between keyboard and chair"
    03-27-2016 11:58 AM
  10. T Moore's Avatar
    Same attitude before March 17. Just wanted to use and not participate.
    Not enough users recommended the preview if it was running fine on their phones and others jumped in on these long threads to repeat over and over their problems when it really didn't make any difference.
    03-27-2016 12:09 PM
  11. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Yea people would love to help, but not if they can't do their basic phone stuff as well. People want updates but they also want solidity, we sometimes recommend people try it for themselves, since one person's tolerance for bugs isn't quite the same as another's.
    This is why it should not be done on your daily driver.

    And isn't this the kind of feedback that Microsoft would need to know about; not being able to do basic stuff on your phone??
    03-27-2016 12:29 PM
  12. Jazmac's Avatar
    I give up on complaining about those that complain for the sake of complaining. It is what they do as a matter of being who they are. Many have a moniker that spells "I complain".
    It is reality for most, and food for others. They cannot help themselves and the principal method they communicate with the outside world. it has been that way since birth. Not just with phones but fast food joints, inside movie theaters, school teachers, their parents, you name it, they are a-complainin'. You cannot train that out of them no matter what you try. All is needed is a focal point and you got noise.
    03-27-2016 12:55 PM
  13. ven07's Avatar
    First of all..Well said ttsoldier!

    Secondly, I think people are misunderstanding the point here. OP did not state that you can't jump on board (latest insider builds) to see what's going on and then downgrade if you still don't like it (Side note: if you own just one phone and you keep doing this, you have too much free time. Consider a different hobby).

    OP is aiming his salvo at the users who for some reason jump into the insider program hoping for the latest and greatest, but at the first sign of trouble they end up here complaining about MS and how they're going to leave. Some don't even have the patience to go through basic troubleshooting.

    Yes, the insider program allows you to have the latest updates, but it's still just unstable builds and MS wants us to point out the things that need fixing (not that they fix all of it lol). Complaining isn't helping :/ Complaining and reporting the issue via the feedback app without sounding like a whiner, is somewhat helpful tho
    03-27-2016 01:02 PM
  14. Narathan's Avatar
    First of all..Well said ttsoldier!

    Secondly, I think people are misunderstanding the point here. OP did not state that you can't jump on board (latest insider builds) to see what's going on and then downgrade if you still don't like it (Side note: if you own just one phone and you keep doing this, you have too much free time. Consider a different hobby).

    OP is aiming his salvo at the users who for some reason jump into the insider program hoping for the latest and greatest, but at the first sign of trouble they end up here complaining about MS and how they're going to leave. Some don't even have the patience to go through basic troubleshooting.

    Yes, the insider program allows you to have the latest updates, but it's still just unstable builds and MS wants us to point out the things that need fixing (not that they fix all of it lol). Complaining isn't helping :/ Complaining and reporting the issue via the feedback app without sounding like a whiner, is somewhat helpful tho
    Agreed. And the worst kind of users are those that claim to be "IT professionals" with "10+ years of field work" calling the preview builds disasters. I do IT implementation myself for healthcare hardware and its always a trail and error experience during technical pilots. Stuff doesn't work? You ask and collect feedback from your user(s), try to fix it and give it another go until its done right. I might not have 10+ years of field experience but at least I have common sense - human interoperability (how people interact with technology) is really tricky to get right and most people seem to see the preview as a ticket to the "latest and greatest".

    I try it because I'm very curious to see what Redstone is shaping into and I like what I see and even give feedback on things that I think are good (oi, positive feedback? that still a thing these days? ).
    03-27-2016 03:55 PM
  15. 7a2eer's Avatar
    Providing feedback is the least of Microsoft's concerns. In fact, what Microsoft is looking to collect is the diagnostic data OP mentioned Rolling back should provide data as well, therefore people who complain and roll back are still contributing.

    If Microsoft actually read feedback they'd see all complaints with regards to cutting off 512MB and S4 devices.
    Best thing you can do is switch to another platform altogether. Does not seem as if Microsoft has noticed steady decline in interest for WP.

    Maybe lost marketshare and revenue will entice them to change their act!

    PS - As if they really can make us believe the Lumia 535, 635, and 640 are better candidates than the Lumia 820, 920, 925, and 1020 for W10M upgrade. Better not see anyone saying otherwise :seriousface:
    Tien-Lin Chang and xandros9 like this.
    03-27-2016 08:29 PM
  16. PF Mail's Avatar
    "90% pc iussues are between keyboard and chair"
    If PCs are not designed to be used by the thing that's between the keyboard and the chair, then you actually have an argument there.
    03-27-2016 10:00 PM
  17. ven07's Avatar
    I do IT implementation myself for healthcare hardware and its always a trail and error experience during technical pilots. Stuff doesn't work? You ask and collect feedback from your user(s), try to fix it and give it another go until its done right.
    That's actually the fun bit right there :D but yea it can be stressful when you just can't find the problem
    Narathan likes this.
    03-27-2016 10:14 PM
  18. 7a2eer's Avatar
    If PCs are not designed to be used by the thing that's between the keyboard and the chair, then you actually have an argument there.
    What he is referring to is "human error". Have heard many people complaining about how their graphic calculator does not work properly, and no, there was nothing functionally wrong with their calculators.
    03-27-2016 11:44 PM
  19. Daniel Gilbert M's Avatar
    I provided feedback on 14291 before rolling back to .164. Did my job as an insider. :)
    03-28-2016 12:01 AM
  20. PF Mail's Avatar
    What he is referring to is "human error". Have heard many people complaining about how their graphic calculator does not work properly, and no, there was nothing functionally wrong with their calculators.
    I understand that there are human errors, but saying 90% of the PC issues totally means the design sucks.
    03-28-2016 02:37 AM
  21. PF Mail's Avatar
    I totally agree that the Insiders should know what getting into the program means, but still you would think that the Insiders would like to test and provide feedback on the new features, problems that may only show up only from day-to-day/a particular usage pattern, not the same old problems that's been there, or some problems that are so easily spot just by going thru the update process and run a couple of standard apps.
    03-28-2016 02:44 AM
  22. Narathan's Avatar
    I totally agree that the Insiders should know what getting into the program means, but still you would think that the Insiders would like to test and provide feedback on the new features, problems that may only show up only from day-to-day/a particular usage pattern, not the same old problems that's been there, or some problems that are so easily spot just by going thru the update process and run a couple of standard apps.
    Agreed, although there's always issues that are of bigger priority. The Groove music song flickering and background not dimming when you swipe to your app drawer were noticable and pretty obvious bugs, but they are not gamebreaking issues. Are they annoying? Yeah, definitly - they make the OS look pretty beta. But you can still listnen to music and all.

    I'm not looking for excuses, but WiFi dropping after a few hours or VNP not working are of much bigger issues then some "minor "cosmetic issues if you ask me. But agreed, MS could be a bit more transparant and make a "checklist" overview in the Insider App where they can check the fixed bugs. They don't need to give an ETA in my opinion, just that it's been fixed and will be merged into a later build like Cyanogenmod (basketbuild) does.

    I think its all about transparancy here. I'm sure they work on the "old problems" but they just don't feel its needed to actually give us a heads up, making it look as if they have no real clue of what they are doing/ignoring their insider testers.
    GEO147, ven07 and nailzer like this.
    03-28-2016 04:37 AM
  23. shenandoah's Avatar
    Folks,

    I've got a couple different Lumia phones on the Insider programs. The main phone I use is a dual sim 640 LTE, followed by the single sim 640, then the 635, then the 520. While some people "complain" about the latest build, it may just simply be posting about the bugs/problems they have found with that particular build. If it severely affects the performance of the phone, it only makes sense to back up to a more stable build from the Insiders program. I've noticed in the posts that people with the same phone experience different issues: for some everything is fine, for others a disaster. I'm sure the differences are the results of what the base ROM is, the apps installed, and various phone settings.

    The main thing I see from all of this is more information on what works and what doesn't with the latest WM10 build.

    Eric
    03-28-2016 07:06 AM
  24. LeFreak's Avatar
    I don't think you understand what that statement means.
    03-28-2016 09:03 AM
  25. Michal Urban's Avatar
    Sorry for possible OT, but it is better to go for fast ring from WDRT 8.1 or updated official Win10m? Ive read all sorts of recommendations ...
    03-28-2016 09:03 AM
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