Latest Insider build...Really MSFT

[Scott Pisciotta]

You know they are struggling when the boast this on the fix list:

We fixed where the ninja cat emoji was not displaying correctly when received in a notification.

With Fixes like that, you would assume it's 99.9999% ready right? Or the MSFT development team has no clue.

 

[Pete]

Other stuff got fixed apart from this. If this one small thing isn't important to you, then feel free to move on with your life.

Some people like the Ninja Cat, no one forced you to as well.

 

[Indistinguishable]

It's a small fix that likely didn't take a lot of work.

So, I guess you'd rather have a less detailed change log that didn't include small fixes? Seems like a non-issue to me.

 

[Summer_Moon]

I'm with Indistinguishable on this one. Sounds like you just didn't want to see it in the changelog. If you don't like that part of the changelog skip over it and ignore it. Others, like myself see this as a welcome fix. Any fixes are always welcome in my book. Even if it was the ninja cat emoji (which is really awesome by the way). It also shows that Microsoft has a sense of humor and it is incredibly difficult to do the amount of coding that Microsoft does without having some sort of downtime. I highly doubt they spent hours or days fixing it, it was probably just a "one-liner", as we call it at my job.

I would much rather them have humor than for them to be tied to their chairs forced to work through "more important" issues as that usually results in even more issues.

 

[Scott Pisciotta]

You guys don't get software development at all, and that is why Windows 10 is such a dog. They are probably running an Agile shop because all the cool people do it. So you empower developers to decide what makes it into a sprint, and you get Ninja Cat Emoji fixes versus power management fixes, performance fixes, Windows 8.1 missed cherry picks on functionality....

Clearly the market is punishing MSFT for this as well. As a staunch fan of MSFT for 30 years, it is sad they are executing so poorly on the Windows Mobile front.

 

[xandros9]

OP doesn't have a problem with the ninja cat itself, it's just they fix lists seem rather short and don't have any mention of the "general fixes and improvements" catch all, implying that those fixes are the only thing different.

I remember explicitly seeing things like power management and reliability being on one of the fix lists but they aren't usually there... 10586 has disappointed me with persistent bugs that never seem to be squished build-after-build, hard reset-after-WDRT use, so I hope Redstone is better. Maybe my issues are already fixed or replaced by different ones.

 

[anthonyng]

10586 has disappointed me with persistent bugs that never seem to be squished build-after-build, hard reset-after-WDRT use, so I hope Redstone is better. Maybe my issues are already fixed or replaced by different ones.

MS gave me a new replacement 950XL, I'm done with trying to make 10586 work for me battery wise, I think redstone is probably stable enough for me to just go in try it out full time now (fast ring)

 

[realwarder]

MS gave me a new replacement 950XL, I'm done with trying to make 10586 work for me battery wise, I think redstone is probably stable enough for me to just go in try it out full time now (fast ring)

Let us know how that goes. I have Redstone on a test phone and it appears fine but always concerned about making my main phone run (more) beta software.

 

[Summer_Moon]

You guys don't get software development at all, and that is why Windows 10 is such a dog. They are probably running an Agile shop because all the cool people do it. So you empower developers to decide what makes it into a sprint, and you get Ninja Cat Emoji fixes versus power management fixes, performance fixes, Windows 8.1 missed cherry picks on functionality....

Clearly the market is punishing MSFT for this as well. As a staunch fan of MSFT for 30 years, it is sad they are executing so poorly on the Windows Mobile front.

Wow, that is quite the statement, but I really suggest not trying to say that you are the only one that understands software development. I am sure there are plenty of people on WC that understand exactly how software development works.

 

[jdballard]

You know they are struggling when the boast this on the fix list:

We fixed where the ninja cat emoji was not displaying correctly when received in a notification.

With Fixes like that, you would assume it's 99.9999% ready right? Or the MSFT development team has no clue.

I also suspect it was a nod to the insiders with the ninja cat. It actually made me smile.

 

[jdballard]

You guys don't get software development at all, and that is why Windows 10 is such a dog.

I'm pretty sure that after 20 years in software, I actually do get it. You have no idea how long it took. It may have literally been a five minute fix that the insiders would appreciate.

As for their execution of their strategy, I think the strategy has been the problem, but their execution has been fine. Given that they've essentially started over in mobile three times now: from 6.5 to 7, 7 to 8/8.1 and 8.1 to 10 and done as well as they have, it's actually pretty impressive execution of a poor strategy that necessitated rewriting the OS over and over and over. Although one could argue that the strategy of one common runtime amongst phone, tablet and desktop should have been done a long time ago, they have actually executed it faster than Google or Apple. And I'll throw in that the Redstone mobile build on my 640 is running pretty well.

 

[Summer_Moon]

I'm pretty sure that after 20 years in software, I actually do get it. You have no idea how long it took. It may have literally been a five minute fix that the insiders would appreciate.

As for their execution of their strategy, I think the strategy has been the problem, but their execution has been fine. Given that they've essentially started over in mobile three times now: from 6.5 to 7, 7 to 8/8.1 and 8.1 to 10 and done as well as they have, it's actually pretty impressive execution of a poor strategy that necessitated rewriting the OS over and over and over. Although one could argue that the strategy of one common runtime amongst phone, tablet and desktop should have been done a long time ago, they have actually executed it faster than Google or Apple. And I'll throw in that the Redstone mobile build on my 640 is running pretty well.

This exactly. I would entirely agree they have poor strategy, but they keep pushing so hard. It is very impressive.

 

[jdballard]

OP doesn't have a problem with the ninja cat itself, it's just they fix lists seem rather short and don't have any mention of the "general fixes and improvements" catch all, implying that those fixes are the only thing different.

But you don't really know what was on the fix list. My statement is predicated on the assumption that there are always hundreds if not thousands of open issues on the list at any given time and that every release has a lot of fixes we never hear about. Seems like a reasonable assumption on an OS of this size.

Just because "general fixes and improvements" isn't listed doesn't mean they weren't done. I agree that I would expect it to be on there based on the fact it often is, but, at the same time, I would expect there to be general fixes and improvements in every build whether they get mentioned or not.

 

[xandros9]

But you don't really know what was on the fix list. My statement is predicated on the assumption that there are always hundreds if not thousands of open issues on the list at any given time and that every release has a lot of fixes we never hear about. Seems like a reasonable assumption on an OS of this size.

Just because "general fixes and improvements" isn't listed doesn't mean they weren't done. I agree that I would expect it to be on there based on the fact it often is, but, at the same time, I would expect there to be general fixes and improvements in every build whether they get mentioned or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_Mobile#Version_history

I hope you're right.

I guess I'm not very optimistic regarding Windows 10 Mobile and Microsoft's handling of it so far.

 

[jdballard]

I guess I'm not very optimistic regarding Windows 10 Mobile and Microsoft's handling of it so far.

So far I'm generally impressed with Redstone on my 640. I know the 640 has a smaller screen and had great battery life to begin with, but it's been really good for the last few builds.

 

[cracgor]

I'm pretty sure that after 20 years in software, I actually do get it. You have no idea how long it took. It may have literally been a five minute fix that the insiders would appreciate.

As for their execution of their strategy, I think the strategy has been the problem, but their execution has been fine. Given that they've essentially started over in mobile three times now: from 6.5 to 7, 7 to 8/8.1 and 8.1 to 10 and done as well as they have, it's actually pretty impressive execution of a poor strategy that necessitated rewriting the OS over and over and over. Although one could argue that the strategy of one common runtime amongst phone, tablet and desktop should have been done a long time ago, they have actually executed it faster than Google or Apple. And I'll throw in that the Redstone mobile build on my 640 is running pretty well.

Executing a bad strategy is as bad as not executing a good strategy. I do not know that one OS on every device is the right way to go about things. I also do not know if it is the wrong way to go about things. I know that the things I ask my watch, television, computer, phone, refrigerator, car, wife, dogs, etc to do are all different; and each has different abilities that may be better fit with a different operating system. Apple has stated one operating system for every device is not the correct way to go about things--so it is unfair to say Windows has implemented something faster that Apple is avoiding. Although as of right now they only have to design an OS for maybe 6 devices total.

This exactly. I would entirely agree they have poor strategy, but they keep pushing so hard. It is very impressive.

I think pushing a bad strategy hard is more inline with wasting effort on little things like Ninja Cat emojis which was the original post's point. How can Microsoft get ahead with a list of 10,000 things to fix or implement when they waste 10 minutes on something frivolous that no one outside of a fan forum cares about.

 

[Euell Gibbons]

The basic flaw in your argument is that you are working off of the assumption that MS' goals are driven towards giving their customers the best user experience. While they'll certainly claim that is true, the reality is that their goals are driven first and foremost by protecting their existing value-streams. The decision to go the "do everything" W10 route instead of keeping WP and Windows separate was done to try and prevent iOS and Android from making inroads into the very lucrative business market, and to make it worthwhile for the developers to continue developing for Windows. It's all about the developers my friend.

 

[Summer_Moon]

I think pushing a bad strategy hard is more inline with wasting effort on little things like Ninja Cat emojis which was the original post's point. How can Microsoft get ahead with a list of 10,000 things to fix or implement when they waste 10 minutes on something frivolous that no one outside of a fan forum cares about.

Oh, I never said it was the right thing for Microsoft to be doing. I would argue that they are doing a very very poor job with the software. My impressive comment was in them keep on pushing and still trying to make something out of it (don't get me started on everything Microsoft has done wrong). It is impressive, even if it is not the right thing to do. But I really don't get the gripe about the Ninja Cat fix. Who all is using Windows 10 Mobile (much less reading the changelogs)? Most likely it's limited to Windows Insiders. So it's something that they thought would be appreciated by the Insiders and also just to lighten things up a bit.

Seriously, just take a few minutes to laugh about it and don't worry so much about it. What could have possibly have gotten done within that 10 minutes? Maybe someone fixed it on a coffee break. This isn't like they are spending all of their time fixing frivolous things. But just have a laugh about it and move on. Keep sending in the feedback. They have still made a lot of progress and it is a thousand times better than what it was.

 

[jdballard]

Executing a bad strategy is as bad as not executing a good strategy.

I never said it was...just making the point they've actually done a good job of executing their strategy - whether it was the right or wrong strategy.

I do not know that one OS on every device is the right way to go about things. I also do not know if it is the wrong way to go about things. I know that the things I ask my watch, television, computer, phone, refrigerator, car, wife, dogs, etc to do are all different; and each has different abilities that may be better fit with a different operating system. Apple has stated one operating system for every device is not the correct way to go about things--so it is unfair to say Windows has implemented something faster that Apple is avoiding. Although as of right now they only have to design an OS for maybe 6 devices total.

Keep in mind while Windows 10 is called "the same OS" - it is and isn't the same. The things that are the same are the set of API's that developers use, along with what I am assuming is a good portion of the underlying code, the bluetooth stack, the NFC stack, GPS, etc., but there are still going to be significant differences between the desktop, phone and Xbox versions. Assuming that the next version of the band is built on Windows 10 (as many expect), it'll have the same developer APIs but there will be a large number of differences, too.

And no, Apple hasn't tried to integrate the OSes, and when they said they're not going to integrate them back in 2014, I believe they were more talking about putting the iOS UI on top of macOS, not in the underlying code and APIs (although I have no idea if their APIs are consistent across devices). Microsoft's strategy of having everything run Windows, even with the differences, is smart. Less code to maintain and it allows them to market around the idea of a single thing: Windows.

I think pushing a bad strategy hard is more inline with wasting effort on little things like Ninja Cat emojis which was the original post's point. How can Microsoft get ahead with a list of 10,000 things to fix or implement when they waste 10 minutes on something frivolous that no one outside of a fan forum cares about.

Sure, could they have used whatever time they spent on it (be it 5 minutes, 5 hours or 5 days) on something else but what we don't know is that it's quite possible it affected more than just the ninja cat emoji and that made it important enough to fix. I'm willing to bet that the people at Microsoft are smart enough to prioritize things. And given the good performance I'm seeing on Redstone, I think they're doing OK.

 

[cracgor]

Seriously, just take a few minutes to laugh about it and don't worry so much about it. What could have possibly have gotten done within that 10 minutes? Maybe someone fixed it on a coffee break. This isn't like they are spending all of their time fixing frivolous things. But just have a laugh about it and move on. Keep sending in the feedback. They have still made a lot of progress and it is a thousand times better than what it was.

I'm really not too worried about it. We can ask the original poster, but I think he pointed this out because he thought it was funny that with all the work that needs to be done, they fixed a ninja cat emoji.