10-29-2015 07:57 AM
161 1234 ...
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  1. drachen23's Avatar
    I'd caution over going too nuts about Outlook or Office apps and how they might affect/infect general Windows apps. One of the Office team's big "things" is to try and re-invent the look of the product every iteration. Yes, they did adopt the awful Office ribbon in Windows 8's Explorer, but the worst parts of it, like tiny buttons in the title bar and the counter-intuative File menu, aren't common in the rest of Windows or 3rd party apps.

    I'd look more closely at apps like OneDrive, an actual shipping app not designed by the Office team. The latest WP OneDrive forces you to use a white theme even if it will drain your battery and has a hamburger menu (boo!), but for the most part it is designed like a standard WP app. It has a normal app bar with normal icon buttons and is based on a pivot control like many other 3rd party WP apps. The hamburger menu is only for account settings and enabling "shake for feedback". They will be rarely used, so it's not horrible in this case that the button is on the upper left. They apparently really didn't want the app menu to scroll.

    I hate hamburger menus and love the Metro design language with equal passion, but I'm not ready to go totally nuts about it yet until I see software closer to release that isn't Office using the Office-like layout. That said, it's great that so many are putting the pressure on MS to stick with the Metro design language.
    01-29-2015 10:37 PM
  2. muvig's Avatar
    more users are coming to windows, one can not grow by one day,look at how long has android been in the market? why loose patience now MS, were users complaining about the outlook UI?
    rollindice likes this.
    01-30-2015 04:19 AM
  3. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    more users are coming to windows, one can not grow by one day,look at how long has android been in the market? why loose patience now MS, were users complaining about the outlook UI?
    Your argument would have validity if it wasn't for it being a rather tedious thing. Length of time in the market has nothing to do with this discussion. This is talking about Outlook UI not marketshare.

    Also MS, being a software maker should know a thing or two about UI don't you think?
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    01-30-2015 04:41 AM
  4. muvig's Avatar
    I am with you 100%, to hell with this hamburger thing on small devices, it will make our life difficult on using these devices with one hand, don't make windows similar to android, i chose wp because it was different.
    This change was not requested by users.
    01-30-2015 04:54 AM
  5. muvig's Avatar
    WP is new and the majority of people are used to android as it was best best OS so a long time after the rein of Symbian come to an end. marketshare comes in as long as android is mentioned. though i have never owned an android phone.
    01-30-2015 05:29 AM
  6. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    WP is new and the majority of people are used to android as it was best best OS so a long time after the rein of Symbian come to an end. marketshare comes in as long as android is mentioned. though i have never owned an android phone.
    WP is new only to new users. It's been around since 2010. WP7 then WP8 and now WP8.1 soon to be W10. That's without going into Windows Mobile. MS has been in the game for sometime.

    If you never owned an Android device it's hard to comment on the difference. It's similar to Symbian but not quite the same. Though people go on about lag and seem to 'hate' the design language of Android I'd have to say it's not that bad if you have a good spec device. I suspect things will continue to get better on Android.

    If we want to start talking marketshare WP has a very long way to go. According to a recent article on Android Central, Android OS shipped on over a billion smartphones worldwide in 2014. WP is way behind at 38.8 million. Think about that.
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    01-30-2015 05:59 AM
  7. uberlaff's Avatar
    Wow, you guys need to calm down and move along. We haven't seen anything yet.
    01-30-2015 06:02 AM
  8. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Wow, you guys need to calm down and move along. We haven't seen anything yet.
    What you mean we haven't seen the new UI elements? Were we day dreaming when they did the presentation? You mean all the people running the W10 preview now are not running anything that will be released?

    Hmm, somehow I doubt that...
    Lions fan and hexafluoride like this.
    01-30-2015 06:11 AM
  9. mrzees's Avatar
    If after final build, I have to stretch my thumb all the way to that hamburger menu button at the top of the phone to access app settings; I'm leaving windows phone. It was the one thing I really appreciated - those three little dots at the lower right of most apps. Like you differentiation has won the hearts of most current and returning windows phone users. Failure to build on this advantage will only make the UI indistinguishable. Really Microsoft should be working on how to make core experiences better. E.g. Family Room - (can't attach photos to the messenger), Better Skype integration, Phone and Recent calls - (can we get a call history with duration and time of calls); Resuming/Loading - (how long will it take to remedy this?); the list goes on.
    Windows Phone has been playing catch-up for a while now albeit its furious pace to do so. Ultimately it will be Microsoft's ability to carve out an unexplored customer base and to improve its advantages in the OS that will make it succeed. Anything else would lead to it swimming in the shark invested waters that is Google.
    luisfarelo, spaulagain and leo74 like this.
    01-30-2015 08:11 AM
  10. Jas00555's Avatar
    If after final build, I have to stretch my thumb all the way to that hamburger menu button at the top of the phone to access app settings; I'm leaving windows phone.
    This is like the most #firstworldproblem thing I've ever heard.
    01-30-2015 08:15 AM
  11. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    The buttons at the top have more to do with keeping consistency throughout W10. Joe B stated that W10 runs the same code across devices. Sure, it's feasible to be able to put a couple lines of code to make that change for phone...
    if (running on phone)
    {
    put buttons and other junk at the bottom
    }
    else
    ....
    ...but perhaps that may come at a later update.

    In any matter, if you aren't happy about the change, voice you opinion to Microsoft or your complaints are wasted.
    N_LaRUE and Brandon Tobias like this.
    01-30-2015 08:17 AM
  12. mrzees's Avatar
    What if they place the hamburger menu within the familiar three dot swipe up menu that we are accustomed to seeing. Let users swipe upward from the three dot menu. From there, the hamburger menu button can be located exactly where the three dots would have been prior to swiping up. My thoughts is that most people's thumbs revert to that natural position of the 3 dots once they swipe up anyway. I can't deal with stretching my thumb all the way up. I get chills imagining the torture Lumia 1520 and 1320 users would endure with the present position of the hamburger menu on windows 10 mobile.
    zeuxiss likes this.
    01-30-2015 08:22 AM
  13. tiziano27's Avatar
    This is like the most #firstworldproblem thing I've ever heard.
    It remembered me those lazy people of the movie Wall-E.
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    01-30-2015 08:24 AM
  14. mrzees's Avatar
    This is like the most #firstworldproblem thing I've ever heard.
    The greatest power man has, is the power to change his mind. Its certainly not a first world issue but an issue nonetheless. Don't we all have our limits "What would make you leave windows phone"
    01-30-2015 08:30 AM
  15. FAHMI BASSEM's Avatar
    OneDrive UI may be the best solution, or maybe adding an option to swipe right to own the menu.
    01-30-2015 08:31 AM
  16. TechFreak1's Avatar
    People started clamouring that UI should become IOS & Android-esque, MS has now given them what they wanted but at what expense?

    The metro design has become diluted by the demands of the vocal.

    Unfortunately with anything new, some will like the new design and others will not however this not the final RTM build so it could change between now and release.

    I'm going to wait until I've used the preview build for a few days on a secondary phone and see how that goes. I suggest you guys should do the same, if your that concerned at least try it out and give MS helpful critique instead of bashing them.
    01-30-2015 10:41 AM
  17. dKp1977's Avatar
    I'd caution over going too nuts about Outlook or Office apps and how they might affect/infect general Windows apps. One of the Office team's big "things" is to try and re-invent the look of the product every iteration. Yes, they did adopt the awful Office ribbon in Windows 8's Explorer, but the worst parts of it, like tiny buttons in the title bar and the counter-intuative File menu, aren't common in the rest of Windows or 3rd party apps.

    I'd look more closely at apps like OneDrive, an actual shipping app not designed by the Office team. The latest WP OneDrive forces you to use a white theme even if it will drain your battery and has a hamburger menu (boo!), but for the most part it is designed like a standard WP app. It has a normal app bar with normal icon buttons and is based on a pivot control like many other 3rd party WP apps. The hamburger menu is only for account settings and enabling "shake for feedback". They will be rarely used, so it's not horrible in this case that the button is on the upper left. They apparently really didn't want the app menu to scroll.

    I hate hamburger menus and love the Metro design language with equal passion, but I'm not ready to go totally nuts about it yet until I see software closer to release that isn't Office using the Office-like layout. That said, it's great that so many are putting the pressure on MS to stick with the Metro design language.
    Aweful ribbon? Oo This has been one of the greatest additions in Windows 8. It makes using the Windows Explorer a bliss, since there's so many actions just a single click away that took many more steps before. I personally even liked the ribbon in Office too, as it offered many often used tools right away. Tools that have previously been buried deep inside cascaded menus.
    01-30-2015 10:42 AM
  18. hungdizzle's Avatar
    The simple clean interface of Metro is slowly disappearing. Not a good thing. But if it makes it easier for app developers, and leads to more apps.. is that a good thing?
    01-30-2015 11:09 AM
  19. FAHMI BASSEM's Avatar
    The simple clean interface of Metro is slowly disappearing. Not a good thing. But if it makes it easier for app developers, and leads to more apps.. is that a good thing?
    No it's not!
    01-30-2015 12:37 PM
  20. theolympusguy's Avatar
    I love the design, right now I have windows 10 on my PC and surface and the apps/tiles are setup as close as I could get it on my phone. I want onenote, Xbox or Netflix...the apps are all in the same location, either on phone or PC. I don't care about hamburger menus, I just want amazing sync, customizable tiles and universal apps...nothing else matters to me. The email looks way better with the new look over the old look. I love the idea of everything being the same...less thinking and way way more productivity since I don't have to look for apps (like I did on my android). I was a die hard android user for a long time but now windows is just making it easier and from everything I hear...its only getting better.
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    01-30-2015 12:51 PM
  21. techiez's Avatar
    What if they place the hamburger menu within the familiar three dot swipe up menu that we are accustomed to seeing. Let users swipe upward from the three dot menu. From there, the hamburger menu button can be located exactly where the three dots would have been prior to swiping up. My thoughts is that most people's thumbs revert to that natural position of the 3 dots once they swipe up anyway. I can't deal with stretching my thumb all the way up. I get chills imagining the torture Lumia 1520 and 1320 users would endure with the present position of the hamburger menu on windows 10 mobile.
    forgettimg abt universal apps? would you like to click on top or on bottom using a regular keyboard mouse PC, imagine the windows close maximize minimize button at the bottom, you would hate it
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    01-30-2015 12:53 PM
  22. techiez's Avatar
    The buttons at the top have more to do with keeping consistency throughout W10. Joe B stated that W10 runs the same code across devices. Sure, it's feasible to be able to put a couple lines of code to make that change for phone...
    ...but perhaps that may come at a later update.

    In any matter, if you aren't happy about the change, voice you opinion to Microsoft or your complaints are wasted.
    I wish if UI design was so simple as you put :)
    Your if else will double the effort for developer and he would nt care to develop for windows at all
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    01-30-2015 12:57 PM
  23. Torcher Death's Avatar
    Based on just the screenshots, I'd say I prefer the old one... though the new one does seem to offer more functionality.
    As for the damnbuger vs ellipses, again I go for the old ellipses over burger, just for one hand accessibility purposes...especially for the larger screen devices.
    Hopefully, MS is able to meet somewhere in the middle, where neither the UI nor functions are compromised or go the long & hard way by making it such that users can choose the theme for such apps.
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    01-30-2015 01:11 PM
  24. drachen23's Avatar
    Aweful ribbon? Oo This has been one of the greatest additions in Windows 8. It makes using the Windows Explorer a bliss, since there's so many actions just a single click away that took many more steps before. I personally even liked the ribbon in Office too, as it offered many often used tools right away. Tools that have previously been buried deep inside cascaded menus.
    Parts of the ribbon are not so bad. Large, clickable icons on a tabbed/grouped interface are a good thing. The implementation Office has is so gunked up with inconsistency and clutter that it became awful. Here's my current Outlook 2013 ribbon bar:

    capture.png

    Here's just a few things off the top of my head:

    First on the list are the "quick access toolbar" icons in the titlebar. No other (non-Office) apps use the titlebar for anything other than the title. In addition, the icons are the same size and spacing as the Outlook app icon, which when you click on it, it's a menu. Two of the others are actions (buttons) and the last is the edit menu. Only two of the four icons have similar functionality, but at least the last one has a down arrow on it, indicating that it's a menu.

    Next up is the Tab bar. The last four tabs work like pretty much any other tab ever, but not the first one. The first tab isn't really a tab. It's not even a menu, at least in Office. (In Explorer, it *is* an actual menu, but I'll get to that later). In Office, it's a whole new screen that overlays the existing application. The functionality of this overlay screen isn't even consistent across Office apps. It ends up being a dumping ground for anything that doesn't fit into the ribbon. In Outlook, it's mostly account info and settings. In Word, it's mostly file, print and document functionality. As a bonus, the exact same MS account sub-screen is called "Account" in Word and "Office Account" in Outlook. It doesn't even attempt for consistency.

    The button bar itself is pretty functional and I don't hate it that much, but it's a visual mish-mash. It mixes, kind of randomly, large and small buttons each of which could be either action buttons like "New Email" or menus like "New Items". The down arrow next to the menus is a decent cue that the icon opens a menu rather than does an action. Its worst sin is the "Quick Steps" menu. It doesn't look like it at first glance, but that's actually a list with 6 items in it. The right side has an up arrow, down arrow and another down arrow. The top down arrow scrolls and the bottom down arrow opens the list like a menu. None of this takes into account any of the other UI inconsistencies in Outlook below the ribbon.

    The WIn8 Explorer does some of this, but not nearly as badly. It still has the button visual mish-mash but it fixes some of the title bar inconsistency by having a separator between app icon and title bar. The File menu is an actual menu, not something that covers the entire app pane. Still not consistent, but better than "hey, where did my app go?". It still has the silly list menu for "Layout" but I like that you get a preview when you hover over an option.

    It's all perfectly functional, but inconsistent and confusing. It doesn't surprise me in the least that the mobile Office apps have the same sort of UI issues on mobile as the desktop product.
    01-30-2015 01:32 PM
  25. Squachy's Avatar
    You want horrid design direction? YouTube. The app on wii-u has a different UI than the app on windows and the website..... They all function differently and it's quite irritating. Consistent UI across the board is the way to go. Just add bits and pieces of visual flair unique to each platform and be done with it. Btw you guys make it sound like hamburger menu is an Android invention..... News flash, it ain't.
    portalfocus likes this.
    01-30-2015 04:27 PM
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