Windows 10 Mobile: One small step for Windows Phone, one giant step backwards in UI

[Torontonian22]

Well, that doesn't affect my point of view.... Universal apps will still have the same problem That i mentioned in my post. However, i may have missed the point but so far, i haven't seen any difference between universal apps on pc and mobile layout. So, even if developers have the choice, we haven't seen it yet... Unless i'm using wrong universal apps of course.

Because in my mind, the ultimate goal of universal app is to build 1 app for all devices and not develop different UI for each device. But i hope in the end, universal apps will be different on pc and phone.

 

[a5cent]

Because in my mind, the ultimate goal of universal app is to build 1 app for all devices and not develop different UI for each device. But i hope in the end, universal apps will be different on pc and phone.

In that case you're in luck, since you're making assumptions that are just flat out incorrect. ;-)

You can read almost any of MS' developer docs on MSDN to prove yourself wrong on that point. Here's just one example:

Some aspects of your app's UI will automatically adapt across devices. Controls such as buttons and sliders automatically adapt across device families and input modes. Your app's user-experience design, however, may need to adapt depending on the device the app is running on. For example, a photos app should adapt the UI when running on a small, hand-held device to ensure that usage is ideal for single-hand use. When the photos app is running on a desktop computer, the UI should adapt to take advantage of the additional screen space.

source

You can find dozens more making the same point.

So, even if developers have the choice, we haven't seen it yet... Unless i'm using wrong universal apps of course.

You're wrong. If you could provide an example of the universal apps you've looked at it would probably help to clear this misunderstanding up. I'm rather sceptical you've ever used a universal app, because at this point in time there are almost none.

The Office Mobile apps are probably some of the best examples to date. If you download Word Mobile on Windows 10, and also download Word Mobile on your W10M device, then both of those devices will have actually downloaded the exact same program, and low and behold, their UIs are very different...

 

[Steve Thackery]

The change in UI paradigms from WP8.1 to W10M is actually the result of MS trying to make it easier for developers to port iPhone and Android apps over to W10M, and making W10M look more like a place where such apps would be "at home". From a UI design perspective, that's completely unrelated to universal apps!
.

I was another who had the same misapprehension. I'm happy to stand corrected.

HOWEVER, the W10M UI paradigm is a massive disappointment for me. I love the WP8.1 UI, which is incredibly innovative compared with iOS and Android. I am deeply disappointed that W10M has moved a long way towards being an Android-look-alike with live tiles. It has thrown away so much that made WP8.1 special and different.

If I wanted an Android look-alike I'd buy the real thing (probably a Galaxy Note, in my case). Meanwhile I've switched my 1520 back to WP8.1 and will use it until it breaks. After that I'll bid Windows Phone a sad farewell and become an Android user.

I hate Microsoft for this decision on the W10M UI.

 

[a5cent]

^ Yeah, well, I'd note that an OS is far more than just a UI, but as far as the UI is concerned, I agree.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Both of you have misunderstood the impact universal apps have (or don't have) on W10M's UI design paradigms.

Nothing about universal apps forces a developer to use the same UI pattern on different screen sizes. In fact, W10M explicitly supports the notion of the same app having multiple and potentially completely different UI layouts, where a different layout is chosen based on screen size. In addition to that, a developer that is willing to break with MS' UI recommendations can still make a smartphone UI look and work any which way.

The change in UI paradigms from WP8.1 to W10M is actually the result of MS trying to make it easier for developers to port iPhone and Android apps over to W10M, and making W10M look more like a place where such apps would be "at home". From a UI design perspective, that's completely unrelated to universal apps!

I suspect that iOS and Android sourced apps will eventually replace most of the phone-only apps currently in the WP store. It's not hard to imagine why MS might want the OS and the apps it runs to not look and feel completely different. Whether we agree with that is a different topic.

No, I understand what MS is trying to do. I think it's lame, desperate and will probably push me back to Android (please no) but I understand why they're doing it.

 

[Tsang Fai]

The more I look at screenshots of Windows 10 for mobile the more I wonder why I don't just get an Android device, since the UI is pretty much heading in that direction anyway. Since Microsoft has put more time and energy into making sure their own apps are updated faster and more often on iOS and Android anyway, the only real differentiator between a Windows Phone and everyone else was the camera and UI. Since its inception, the Windows Phone UI was based on spacing and typography. Little-to-no chrome.

With Windows 10 mobile all I've seen is a major step away from the UI elements that made Windows Phone so great. Look no further than the new email, messaging and photos app. As a longtime WP user this frustrates me. I was willing to constantly be left behind in apps and games because I liked the style of my OS. I'll wait until Windows Mobile 10 comes out to make a final judgement, but I can see myself leaving Windows Phone if they continue to choose not to differentiate themselves with the UI. I suppose the preview time is our platform to let Microsoft know that we don't like the direction they are taking WP with regards to the UI.

View attachment 95101

I think both look nice.

The first one (Win10 Mobile) is not a direct screen capture. So apparently it does not look so good.

 

[Steve Thackery]

The more I look at screenshots of Windows 10 for mobile the more I wonder why I don't just get an Android device, since the UI is pretty much heading in that direction anyway. <...> Since its inception, the Windows Phone UI was based on spacing and typography. Little-to-no chrome.

With Windows 10 mobile all I've seen is a major step away from the UI elements that made Windows Phone so great. <...> I can see myself leaving Windows Phone if they continue to choose not to differentiate themselves with the UI.

That was written back in January. Now that we're almost at launch, it remains true - Microsoft have continued with their policy of making W10M an Android look-alike and ditching all the UI innovations that made Windows Phone so special compared with iOS and Android. At a stroke Microsoft made iOS and Android look clunky and old-fashioned; now they're making W10M look the same.

Of course there's more to an OS than the UI, but for me the UI is critical. Like the OP was thinking, I've decided to abandon Windows for my phone. I've rolled back my 1520 to WP8.1, and when it breaks I'll be moving to Android.

I think Microsoft might have just made a terrible mistake: they are betting the farm on developers porting their apps to W10M, having made it easier for them. I wonder how many really will. And I wonder how many additional sales of Windows phones will result. Colour me sceptical.

 

[a5cent]

I think both look nice.

The first one (Win10 Mobile) is not a direct screen capture. So apparently it does not look so good.

If we're judging only aesthetics I overall prefer W10M (any contradictory opinion is just as valid as this is just personal preference).

Only by using it does the "clunkyess" (compared to WP) become apparent.

 

[Steve Thackery]

Only by using it does the "clunkyess" (compared to WP) become apparent.

For me it's about the whole user interface experience, or the "language" as it is called, which includes not just the aesthetics, but also the controls and the way they are used, the typography, the graphics, the animations, the workflow, etc, etc.

Windows Phone was far more innovative than Android or iOS ever were, and for me it was far, far better to use. I mourn its passing.

 

[phlamethrowre]

The more I look at screenshots of Windows 10 for mobile the more I wonder why I don't just get an Android device, since the UI is pretty much heading in that direction anyway. Since Microsoft has put more time and energy into making sure their own apps are updated faster and more often on iOS and Android anyway, the only real differentiator between a Windows Phone and everyone else was the camera and UI. Since its inception, the Windows Phone UI was based on spacing and typography. Little-to-no chrome.

With Windows 10 mobile all I've seen is a major step away from the UI elements that made Windows Phone so great. Look no further than the new email, messaging and photos app. As a longtime WP user this frustrates me. I was willing to constantly be left behind in apps and games because I liked the style of my OS. I'll wait until Windows Mobile 10 comes out to make a final judgement, but I can see myself leaving Windows Phone if they continue to choose not to differentiate themselves with the UI. I suppose the preview time is our platform to let Microsoft know that we don't like the direction they are taking WP with regards to the UI.

View attachment 95101

And with Android you'll have many more phones to choose from and new models every 6 months.

 

[Narathan]

Eh. If we cling to the past, stuff's not going to get any better. Personally I think W10M looks far more "serious" compared to WP7-8.1. I don't want big text that takes up tons of screen estate, even though I admit it looked gorgeous. I love the new email, messaging and photo app - especially the agenda and email changes are a VERY welcome change for me. And Groove music is shaping up into something decent compared to that abomination called XBOX Music.

But look at it like this. If things remained the same as they were on Windows Phone, I'm pretty sure it would have died out eventually. I know it's sad they had to sacrifice so much in order to gain traction, but what else can they do at this point. I still don't want to compare it with android - I'd rather compare it with iOS.

Also, if you go Android, be sure to pick a Nexus device. Fragmentation is ridicilous, not to mention performance tends to become very sluggish over time with certain brands. Not saying this is the case on every phone.

But personally, I'll stick with W10M. Whats the point of getting a flagship android phone every six months anyway? the fact that android needs quadcore/hexacore/octacore cpu's with 2-4 gb's of ram and huge batteries to get through a single day and still laggy performance is downright laughable if you ask me. I'm not going to shell out my hard earned money on something like that again. I've made that mistake a few times too many.

so I'll just see what happens. to be honest, like I said - the UI doesn't bother me that much.

 

[Steve Thackery]

Eh. If we cling to the past, stuff's not going to get any better.

I've heard this argument used a lot, and it's a very poor one! :smile:

When someone expresses a dislike of something new, it's too easy to say "Yaah, you're just an old fart who's stuck in the past and can't cope with change!" It ignores one enormous possibility: that the new thing may genuinely be worse than the old thing.

Like many of us tech-heads, my instinct is always to embrace change with enthusiasm (and my bank account suffers for it). However, it is quite wrong to assume that all change is for the better. Usually, change is for the better. But sometimes it isn't.

The smart thing is to know the difference. For example, (we aren't talking phones here) one of the biggest drivers of change is cost reduction. All manufacturers will drive down their costs as low as they can get away with, which sometimes means pushing out products which you or I might find too tacky and junky to enjoy owning. Sometimes the earlier models of a particular technology are stronger, more reliable (or whatever other parameter you are interested in) because they haven't been subjected to the cost reduction process.

Usually I love upgrading my software, no matter what the device. However, for my purposes, W10M is less desirable to me than WP8.1.

You might be interested to know that I've also recently deleted the latest W10 Insider Preview from my main workstation and gone back to Windows 7! For my purposes, on a desktop workstation, W7 offers the best experience. However, I also have a Sony hybrid thing, and W10 is just perfect on that, especially the automatic switching between tablet and desktop modes when I flip out the keyboard.

So, don't assume that because someone complains about something new it automatically means they are resistant to change! :smile:

 

[mariusmuntean]

The more I look at screenshots of Windows 10 for mobile the more I wonder why I don't just get an Android device, since the UI is pretty much heading in that direction anyway. Since Microsoft has put more time and energy into making sure their own apps are updated faster and more often on iOS and Android anyway, the only real differentiator between a Windows Phone and everyone else was the camera and UI. Since its inception, the Windows Phone UI was based on spacing and typography. Little-to-no chrome.

With Windows 10 mobile all I've seen is a major step away from the UI elements that made Windows Phone so great. Look no further than the new email, messaging and photos app. As a longtime WP user this frustrates me. I was willing to constantly be left behind in apps and games because I liked the style of my OS. I'll wait until Windows Mobile 10 comes out to make a final judgement, but I can see myself leaving Windows Phone if they continue to choose not to differentiate themselves with the UI. I suppose the preview time is our platform to let Microsoft know that we don't like the direction they are taking WP with regards to the UI.

View attachment 95101

Don't expect anything to change in the UI anymore. What you see now is what you'll get in the final build. They've said that win10 is feature complete..almost. The way it looks now is how it will remain at least until the next big update, although I do not think anything will change, even then, in respect of the design. WP 8.1 looked much better even though it took away some nice things from 8, but win10 looks like a ruined,shrinked down PC desktop UI with almost nothing in place.

 

[Leonel Funes]

I love the UI for Windows Phone 8.1. With Windows Mobile 10, I see a blend of iOS and Android - in a very good way. It will definitely help win over new users, devs will feel at home, and anyone that doesn't like the design can leave, but it'd be pointless since "they all look the same now". I say keep doing what you're doing, Mircrosoft!

 

[MikeSo]

Microsoft designed an OS that felt great to use. But nobody wanted it. They gave it a good shot, and now they have to adjust it so that it can be more easily ported from the competitors. Simple as that.

I like how W10M looks, but WP8.1 was nicer to use in many ways. Oh well, it is what it is. It's still more pleasant to use than stock Android. At least that's something.

 

[mihnat]

Eh. If we cling to the past, stuff's not going to get any better. Personally I think W10M looks far more "serious" compared to WP7-8.1. I don't want big text that takes up tons of screen estate, even though I admit it looked gorgeous. I love the new email, messaging and photo app - especially the agenda and email changes are a VERY welcome change for me. And Groove music is shaping up into something decent compared to that abomination called XBOX Music.

But look at it like this. If things remained the same as they were on Windows Phone, I'm pretty sure it would have died out eventually. I know it's sad they had to sacrifice so much in order to gain traction, but what else can they do at this point. I still don't want to compare it with android - I'd rather compare it with iOS.

Also, if you go Android, be sure to pick a Nexus device. Fragmentation is ridicilous, not to mention performance tends to become very sluggish over time with certain brands. Not saying this is the case on every phone.

But personally, I'll stick with W10M. Whats the point of getting a flagship android phone every six months anyway? the fact that android needs quadcore/hexacore/octacore cpu's with 2-4 gb's of ram and huge batteries to get through a single day and still laggy performance is downright laughable if you ask me. I'm not going to shell out my hard earned money on something like that again. I've made that mistake a few times too many.

so I'll just see what happens. to be honest, like I said - the UI doesn't bother me that much.

Great insight, thanks! A case in point with respect to WP10 UI being serious is the new MS Maps vs HERE Drive/Maps. I kinda too liked having that chimera between John Hodgeman and Justin Long that was 8.1 - business when need be but just with a little style. I do understand the reality with the sudden Android-ness of WP10: no new apps = no new customers = no new apps = no new customers and so on....

Although a bit hyperbolic, this is an interesting view of WP development:
Windows 10 Mobile, Microsoft's Last Chance to Be Relevant in the Mobile Market

 

[nicolas_as]

couldn't agree more!

 

[Jeddic]

the only good thing about WP is its aesthetics, and those are being compromised.

If you think the only good thing about WP is aesthetics, then you'll probably be more comfortable on another OS. Most of us like many things about WP in addition to how it looks. Also, as far as looks go, I think that most of the changes in W10 are improvements and further refine the existing standards of the Metro design. But that's really just a personal opinion.

Bottom line for me is that I like WP based on it's features, how it works, and what I can do with it. If I had to choose between Windows that looked exactly like Android, and Android, I'd still take Windows.

 

[Kram Sacul]

If you think the only good thing about WP is aesthetics, then you'll probably be more comfortable on another OS. Most of us like many things about WP in addition to how it looks. Also, as far as looks go, I think that most of the changes in W10 are improvements and further refine the existing standards of the Metro design. But that's really just a personal opinion.

The problem is that many of the refinements are just plain poorly thought out and a lot of the design standards that made WP unique and attractive were thrown out the window. It's Metro without the style and if you hit it with a shovel. An improvement would be adding the cute little joystick to the keyboard or improved voice dictation. Those are useful and cool. Cropping square profile pictures into circles and shoving a menu in the upper left corner of every app is not. Definitely not.

 

[mariusmuntean]

The problem is that many of the refinements are just plain poorly thought out and a lot of the design standards that made WP unique and attractive were thrown out the window. It's Metro without the style and if you hit it with a shovel. An improvement would be adding the cute little joystick to the keyboard or improved voice dictation. Those are useful and cool. Cropping square profile pictures into circles and shoving a menu in the upper left corner of every app is not. Definitely not.

~90% of users I've seen have thrown with MS to the wall because of the People's tile and app redesign into circles. Looks horrible, but as it seems MS is lacking a good design team, I do not think this will change very soon. They should have at least given an option to chose circles vs old style.