06-15-2016 07:58 PM
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  1. Kevin Hill2's Avatar
    You are missing out on a great Windows Flagship, The HTC M8 and don't give me any of that bad camera bull. You all seem to think it has to be a Nokia or Microsoft device to make it a good phone, and that is why Windows phone is going know where. Microsoft is not Apple and never will be, those people are just nuts, they would buy a toilet that didn't flush if it was made and sold by Apple. Do you think Andriod would be where it's at if only Samsung or LG built phones for it? I understand why Microsoft is making the cheaper phones, you can get them into more people's hands and build a user base. But until you embrace other Manufactures Windows phones the Flagship phones and App builders are going to be a slow process.
    Harrie-S, IndyJG, aximtreo and 1 others like this.
    05-17-2015 09:34 AM
  2. neo158's Avatar
    While I can see why people are frustrated by the lack of flagship devices, we need to ask ourselves if 3-4 new flagship devices are NEEDED every single year when (a) most of the phones sold are in the low to mid range and (b) WP is highly optimised and doesn't need Android style specs to run it.
    aximtreo and jevans911 like this.
    05-17-2015 10:08 AM
  3. neo158's Avatar
    You are missing out on a great Windows Flagship, The HTC M8 and don't give me any of that bad camera bull. You all seem to think it has to be a Nokia or Microsoft device to make it a good phone, and that is why Windows phone is going know where. Microsoft is not Apple and never will be, those people are just nuts, they would buy a toilet that didn't flush if it was made and sold by Apple. Do you think Andriod would be where it's at if only Samsung or LG built phones for it? I understand why Microsoft is making the cheaper phones, you can get them into more people's hands and build a user base. But until you embrace other Manufactures Windows phones the Flagship phones and App builders are going to be a slow process.
    The HTC One M8 is only available in America so that means the rest of the world are SOL!!!
    aximtreo and Ben Levi Giron like this.
    05-17-2015 10:11 AM
  4. boxa72's Avatar
    It doesn't matter the reason why Microsoft hasn't released a flagship phone. The truth is, they missed out by sitting on the sidelines while the competition stayed the course with their release schedules.

    12 months is an eternity in the lifecycle of consumer electronics. If you don't refresh what you have to offer, you're going to lose a lot of customers or **** off those who are willing to wait around and hope. For me, personally, I decided to check out the competition while I waited, and guess what? I like what i've found and I've decided I'm not going back to Windows Phone. The best thing about it is I'm not pissed off anymore.
    Exactly! I think they blew it big time. There are heaps of people not content with middle/low end hardware. Personally I'm one of those people that has to have the latest and greatest and because of that I'm using a Galaxy S6 now instead of my 930 and now I've been exposed to another ecosystem it's looking like I won't be back as the Microsoft app ecosystem is actually better on Android. Nokia handed them the best imaging on a smartphone only for Microsoft to squander it to the point that not only have the competition caught up but they've surpassed them. The images I get from the S6 blow my 930 away! And that argument about the Windows phone OS not needing high specs is garbage. It used to be so but hasn't been that way since WP 8.1 came out. I saw that...resuming.... **** plenty of times on my 930 so I imagine it would be heaps more prevalent on low end devices. On the S6 I can be playing Candy Crush, open another app to do something, then go back to Candy Crush like I'd never left. On my 930 I would lose that game and see that horrible "resuming" screen. Anyway my argument here is that they would have lost alot of people who have now been exposed to other ecosystems that wouldn't have been if they had've just released a flagship in the interim. Even just to appease spec lovers like myself and those that must have the latest n greatest coz there are plenty of those.
    05-17-2015 11:15 AM
  5. Harrie-S's Avatar
    No flagships is frustrating for some but to many flagships would be frustrating for me.
    If a few weeks or month after I bought a flagship a new would come with "more" features I would be frustrated that I bought the "old" one.
    (Even knowing that I would not use the "new" features because I even do not use all the features in my current flagship)
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-17-2015 11:22 AM
  6. boxa72's Avatar
    No flagships is frustrating for some but to many flagships would be frustrating for me.
    If a few weeks or month after I bought a flagship a new would come with "more" features I would be frustrated that I bought the "old" one.
    (Even knowing that I would not use the "new" features because I even do not use all the features in my current flagship)
    Yeah that would be frustrating but most manufacturers only release 1 or 2 flagships a year. The only reason Samsung released 2 was because of the Edge. Microsoft are now at a year and a half (some might say longer), which is an eternity in tech terms.

    Sent from my Galaxy S6 using Tapatalk
    05-17-2015 11:30 AM
  7. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    No flagships is frustrating for some but to many flagships would be frustrating for me.
    If a few weeks or month after I bought a flagship a new would come with "more" features I would be frustrated that I bought the "old" one.
    (Even knowing that I would not use the "new" features because I even do not use all the features in my current flagship)
    OTA updates are a thing. They can plan for it to get new features enabled
    05-17-2015 11:53 AM
  8. Harrie-S's Avatar
    OTA updates are a thing. They can plan for it to get new features enabled
    Indeed but I was thinking about a "better" camera, more RAM, "better" SoC, more internal storage, a SD card, use of the continuum feature, "better" battery.
    Now from my above list I guess only a "better" camera can be "enabled" with an OTA update.(and maybe a "better" battery)

    Maybe I also have to say that in my country nearly no phone is branded to a carrier so I could basically get every new unlocked phone.
    Laura Knotek and Tom Snyder like this.
    05-17-2015 12:07 PM
  9. neo158's Avatar
    No flagships is frustrating for some but to many flagships would be frustrating for me.
    If a few weeks or month after I bought a flagship a new would come with "more" features I would be frustrated that I bought the "old" one.
    (Even knowing that I would not use the "new" features because I even do not use all the features in my current flagship)
    That's the point though, most of the sales don't come from the flagships which is why they cost so much money SIM free and why Microsoft aren't that bothered about creating a flagship each year.
    Harrie-S likes this.
    05-17-2015 12:21 PM
  10. Luuthian's Avatar
    Who cares about a flagship from MS at this point anyways? Continuum looks great, and may be the single thing that could one day save WP if they can get their marketing strategy together, but the reality is not many people want a WP anyways and WP10 will not likely change that opinion by itself.

    I'm all for WP hitting a turnaround point and finally becoming a success, but it's simply not necessary to enjoy all the other things MS is finally getting right. Windows 10 feels great (loving the preview so far aside from all the expected bugs), the Surface line is finally the amazing hybrid product it always wanted to be (albeit very expensive), and the Xbox One has tons of great exclusives and is getting game streaming to virtually any W10 PC in the house!

    The best part of all the above? You don't need a Windows labeled device to compliment any of them. Outlook is my primary e-mail app now and it's on iOS and Android, as are Smart Glass and the full MS Office suite. Virtually any cellphone will give you the complimentary MS experience you require (excluding Xbox achievements... woohoo...). Thanks to launching Windows as a service, instead of a particular set of hardware, WP has no special advantages over any other device when it comes to complimenting Windows based hardware.

    Just buy your standard Apple or Android flagship and enjoy pretty much everything a WP users would enjoy anyways... And then some, considering the app selections are far superior.
    steve_w_7 and boxa72 like this.
    05-17-2015 01:07 PM
  11. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    No flagships is frustrating for some but to many flagships would be frustrating for me.
    If a few weeks or month after I bought a flagship a new would come with "more" features I would be frustrated that I bought the "old" one.
    (Even knowing that I would not use the "new" features because I even do not use all the features in my current flagship)
    A good policy might be too release one flagship a year for all carriers at the same time.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    05-17-2015 01:10 PM
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I say we go back to flip phones and beepers. That way we're all equally miffed.
    05-17-2015 01:20 PM
  13. boxa72's Avatar
    That's the point though, most of the sales don't come from the flagships which is why they cost so much money SIM free and why Microsoft aren't that bothered about creating a flagship each year.
    Flagships create mindshare though of which WP has 0% because of MS low end strategy. I hope Windows 10 saves WP but even if it does, and that's a big if, it's going to take far longer than people expect. Even with their development tools for x-platform it's going to be an uphill battle and the only way they even have a chance is if they knock one right out of the park with their (eventual) flagship release and produce something absolutely, totally revolutionary!

    Sent from my Galaxy S6 using Tapatalk
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    05-17-2015 01:21 PM
  14. boxa72's Avatar
    I'm going to bed lol I just realized it's 4am

    Sent from my Galaxy S6 using Tapatalk
    05-17-2015 01:24 PM
  15. neo158's Avatar
    Flagships create mindshare though of which WP has 0% because of MS low end strategy. I hope Windows 10 saves WP but even if it does, and that's a big if, it's going to take far longer than people expect. Even with their development tools for x-platform it's going to be an uphill battle and the only way they even have a chance is if they knock one right out of the park with their (eventual) flagship release and produce something absolutely, totally revolutionary!

    Sent from my Galaxy S6 using Tapatalk
    Microsoft don't need mindshare, they need MARKETshare which is practically non existent at the moment. Targeting the mid to low end makes sense as that's where the sales are and seems to be where the marketshare is as well.
    paulxxwall likes this.
    05-17-2015 02:23 PM
  16. xandros9's Avatar
    Microsoft don't need mindshare, they need MARKETshare which is practically non existent at the moment. Targeting the mid to low end makes sense as that's where the sales are and seems to be where the marketshare is as well.
    They need mindshare. Plenty of people think my 920 is cool, they've just never seen or heard of it before.

    Who's going to buy what they don't know about? And we can't count on reps to inform them.
    05-17-2015 03:05 PM
  17. theefman's Avatar
    Microsoft don't need mindshare, they need MARKETshare which is practically non existent at the moment. Targeting the mid to low end makes sense as that's where the sales are and seems to be where the marketshare is as well.


    I think we need to bury this myth that low end phones are where the users are. The only areas where this is true is in poorer economies where people have no choice but to buy phones outright. In developed countries, much as I hate carrier phones, they do give the option to get the best devices at a lower cost. Spending $199 to get a Galaxy S6 or iPhone 6 negates any appeal low cost devices have at anything above $50 when a little more will net you a bona fide flagship.

    This is why WP is not competitive in the US and other advanced countries, for the same or not much more you can get much more for your money so why buy a bottom of the barrel WP device? Lets not forget that Samsung now enjoys sales of millions of its flagship galaxy phones comparable to the iPhone which at one point they were not doing and while they still sell low priced phones those aren't the ones getting the marketing and TV time. Microsoft pushing out a bazillion low end devices gives them nothing to market against the leaders and thus, very little significant growth. Sadly they have shot themselves in the foot yet again and have to wait (again) for the savior Windows 10 to launch and hope the market for WP doesn't completely disappear in the interim.
    05-17-2015 03:37 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I think we need to bury this myth that low end phones are where the users are. The only areas where this is true is in poorer economies where people have no choice but to buy phones outright. In developed countries, much as I hate carrier phones, they do give the option to get the best devices at a lower cost. Spending $199 to get a Galaxy S6 or iPhone 6 negates any appeal low cost devices have at anything above $50 when a little more will net you a bona fide flagship.

    This is why WP is not competitive in the US and other advanced countries, for the same or not much more you can get much more for your money so why buy a bottom of the barrel WP device? Lets not forget that Samsung now enjoys sales of millions of its flagship galaxy phones comparable to the iPhone which at one point they were not doing and while they still sell low priced phones those aren't the ones getting the marketing and TV time. Microsoft pushing out a bazillion low end devices gives them nothing to market against the leaders and thus, very little significant growth. Sadly they have shot themselves in the foot yet again and have to wait (again) for the savior Windows 10 to launch and hope the market for WP doesn't completely disappear in the interim.
    The US carriers also offer payment plans that allow people to finance the cost of high-end devices monthly without interest. Many customers also choose those plans in lieu of traditional contracts but still choose high-end devices.

    Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
    05-17-2015 03:42 PM
  19. Raj Poladia's Avatar
    I think we need to bury this myth that low end phones are where the users are. The only areas where this is true is in poorer economies where people have no choice but to buy phones outright. In developed countries, much as I hate carrier phones, they do give the option to get the best devices at a lower cost. Spending $199 to get a Galaxy S6 or iPhone 6 negates any appeal low cost devices have at anything above $50 when a little more will net you a bona fide flagship.

    This is why WP is not competitive in the US and other advanced countries, for the same or not much more you can get much more for your money so why buy a bottom of the barrel WP device? Lets not forget that Samsung now enjoys sales of millions of its flagship galaxy phones comparable to the iPhone which at one point they were not doing and while they still sell low priced phones those aren't the ones getting the marketing and TV time. Microsoft pushing out a bazillion low end devices gives them nothing to market against the leaders and thus, very little significant growth. Sadly they have shot themselves in the foot yet again and have to wait (again) for the savior Windows 10 to launch and hope the market for WP doesn't completely disappear in the interim.
    Did you consider India and china in poor economies? Where many people still go for low and midrange phones than flagships....
    neo158 likes this.
    05-17-2015 03:42 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    Targeting the mid to low end makes sense as that's where the sales are and seems to be where the marketshare is as well.
    And what has that strategy done for Microsoft? And where does this idea that Microsoft's stragegy is to "flood the market" with low end devices to get market share up come from? All these affordable Windows Phones have not increased market share; in fact; it's dropping.

    Total sales for WP have been stagnant for the last 2 years or so, while the the total market has increased. There was a chart going around here a little while ago showing WP sales at around 7 - 10 million per quarter, for the last 8 quarters! One quarter up, the next down, but all pretty much the same. That's why I don't buy the argument that Microsoft is brilliantly using low cost WPs to increase market share; even if that's what they're trying to do, it is not working.

    Android outsells WP at a 30 to 1 ratio. If half of Android sales are low end (and it's probably higher than that), that's still 15 to 1 for the low end market. It's a piddly amount, which could mean something if it was going up. Once again, it is not. I cannot see Microsoft patting itself on the back over their success.

    No flagships means no big spenders on services for the most part. iPhone users are the most profitable, but every iPhone sold is a flagship. Android, while having its share of affordable sales, still sells plenty of flagships. Again, profitable users. Where are Microsoft's?
    05-17-2015 04:00 PM
  21. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    And what has that strategy done for Microsoft? And where does this idea that Microsoft's stragegy is to "flood the market" with low end devices to get market share up come from? All these affordable Windows Phones have not increased market share; in fact; it's dropping.

    Total sales for WP have been stagnant for the last 2 years or so, while the the total market has increased. There was a chart going around here a little while ago showing WP sales at around 7 - 10 million per quarter, for the last 8 quarters! One quarter up, the next down, but all pretty much the same. That's why I don't buy the argument that Microsoft is brilliantly using low cost WPs to increase market share; even if that's what they're trying to do, it is not working.

    Android outsells WP at a 30 to 1 ratio. If half of Android sales are low end (and it's probably higher than that), that's still 15 to 1 for the low end market. It's a piddly amount, which could mean something if it was going up. Once again, it is not. I cannot see Microsoft patting itself on the back over their success.

    No flagships means no big spenders on services for the most part. iPhone users are the most profitable, but every iPhone sold is a flagship. Android, while having its share of affordable sales, still sells plenty of flagships. Again, profitable users. Where are Microsoft's?
    That's the key. Persons who spend money on flagship devices also spend more money on apps.

    Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
    Luuthian, Tom Snyder and berny_533 like this.
    05-17-2015 04:21 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    And what has that strategy done for Microsoft? And where does this idea that Microsoft's stragegy is to "flood the market" with low end devices to get market share up come from? All these affordable Windows Phones have not increased market share; in fact; it's dropping.
    In the US this is true. However, there are some countries in Europe where the share has increased. People are leery of buying a flagship phone that they don't know enough about. Even a cheap Xiaomi carries the Android label.
    05-17-2015 04:41 PM
  23. neo158's Avatar
    That's the key. Persons who spend money on flagship devices also spend more money on apps.

    Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
    Apps has nothing to do with it. Look at how many flagship WP devices sell compared to mid-range and low end ones and you might be surprised because more flagship models means less money for Microsoft.

    The other point here of course is that WP doesn't need Android like specs to run it so we don't need 3-4 new flagship models per year anyway.
    05-17-2015 04:52 PM
  24. neo158's Avatar
    I think we need to bury this myth that low end phones are where the users are. The only areas where this is true is in poorer economies where people have no choice but to buy phones outright. In developed countries, much as I hate carrier phones, they do give the option to get the best devices at a lower cost. Spending $199 to get a Galaxy S6 or iPhone 6 negates any appeal low cost devices have at anything above $50 when a little more will net you a bona fide flagship.

    This is why WP is not competitive in the US and other advanced countries, for the same or not much more you can get much more for your money so why buy a bottom of the barrel WP device? Lets not forget that Samsung now enjoys sales of millions of its flagship galaxy phones comparable to the iPhone which at one point they were not doing and while they still sell low priced phones those aren't the ones getting the marketing and TV time. Microsoft pushing out a bazillion low end devices gives them nothing to market against the leaders and thus, very little significant growth. Sadly they have shot themselves in the foot yet again and have to wait (again) for the savior Windows 10 to launch and hope the market for WP doesn't completely disappear in the interim.
    And what has that strategy done for Microsoft? And where does this idea that Microsoft's stragegy is to "flood the market" with low end devices to get market share up come from? All these affordable Windows Phones have not increased market share; in fact; it's dropping.

    Total sales for WP have been stagnant for the last 2 years or so, while the the total market has increased. There was a chart going around here a little while ago showing WP sales at around 7 - 10 million per quarter, for the last 8 quarters! One quarter up, the next down, but all pretty much the same. That's why I don't buy the argument that Microsoft is brilliantly using low cost WPs to increase market share; even if that's what they're trying to do, it is not working.

    Android outsells WP at a 30 to 1 ratio. If half of Android sales are low end (and it's probably higher than that), that's still 15 to 1 for the low end market. It's a piddly amount, which could mean something if it was going up. Once again, it is not. I cannot see Microsoft patting itself on the back over their success.

    No flagships means no big spenders on services for the most part. iPhone users are the most profitable, but every iPhone sold is a flagship. Android, while having its share of affordable sales, still sells plenty of flagships. Again, profitable users. Where are Microsoft's?
    None of this applies outside the US though and you guys need to bury the myth that only the US matters.
    HeyCori likes this.
    05-17-2015 04:56 PM
  25. tgp's Avatar
    None of this applies outside the US though and you guys need to bury the myth that only the US matters.
    Could be true, but overall market share is dropping, not just the US or any other hand-picked country.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    theefman likes this.
    05-17-2015 05:03 PM
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