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  1. Pete's Avatar
    Let me frustrate you some more. No flagships since late 2013 stinks
    No it doesn't.

    Flagships are engineered to have a longer lifecycle than other devices. My 1520 is still as awesome as it was when I first got it.
    marratj and aximtreo like this.
    05-19-2015 02:04 AM
  2. rhapdog's Avatar
    What you're basically arguing is that not buying a WP means other users miss out on the experience of the interface. That's fine and fair, but in terms of access to MS's services, which is all I was discussing, you're not missing out on any of MS's services by using devices from other manufacturers. Android and iOS users have just as much access to MS apps as WP users do, and in many cases their apps are actually better.
    That's partially true (though misleading and I will explain), but that's not what you said. What you said was the extremely misleading statement
    Just buy your standard Apple or Android flagship and enjoy pretty much everything a WP users would enjoy anyways
    That statement is not true, since most diehard WP users are in love with experience of the interface. That was the point I was trying to make.

    What you have said in about MS apps being better on iOS and Android is a bit misleading because it is a case of "living in the past." We already know from Microsoft that W10 for phones will be getting all the new features first, and iOS and Android will be getting basically the port from Windows 10 from here on out. Also, the iOS and Android versions of software will not be capable of scaling to large screens like the W10 versions will when you hook your phone up to a larger monitor. Also, FULL features of Office for phones on Android and iOS will require an Office 365 subscription, as they will only have basic features built into the free version. However, W10 mobile will have the full Microsoft Office touch apps with full functionality and it will be free for W10 mobile.

    With Windows 10 comes the end of Microsoft apps being better on Android and iOS.

    Keep living in the past, because the experience on Windows 10 mobile will far surpass that of any iPhone or Android, period.
    05-19-2015 07:48 AM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    What you have said in about MS apps being better on iOS and Android is a bit misleading because it is a case of "living in the past."
    So when did this change?

    With Windows 10 comes the end of Microsoft apps being better on Android and iOS.
    And how, may I ask, do you know this?

    Keep living in the past, because the experience on Windows 10 mobile will far surpass that of any iPhone or Android, period.
    You're speculating. We've been hearing similar statements for a long time already. Most realists are to the point of "I'll believe it when I see it." It could happen, and probably will eventually. OTOH, it may not ever be fully realized. I don't know, and neither do you.

    The thing is, as much as you hate anything not Microsoft, you must realize that Apple and Google are not resting on their laurels. We're probably at least a year away (and likely more) from seeing even the beginning of the potential utopia you're talking about here.

    The apps we're talking about are Microsoft's. There are others, you know. Now, we know that Microsoft's apps, Office specifically, are much more capable than Google's and Apple's productivity apps. However, for the vast majority of users, using Office is like using a sledge hammer to drive in a thumbtack. Most of the functionality is not utilized.

    Sure, you can make a long bullet point list of functions that Office has that iWorks and Google Docs do not have. But how many of them are used? You know what WP fans say when they are reminded of features on iOS and Android that WP lacks, "My WP does everything I need." Same difference.

    I don't want to completely discredit what you're saying. I believe that the day may come when what you're speculating here will come to fruition. But IF it does arrive, it won't be tomorrow, or probably even next year. And by that time, who knows where Apple and Google will be?

    I just think it's a bit presumptuous to be stating what you'd like to see as fact. It isn't, yet. Wait and see what happens, THEN go ahead and gloat all you want!
    05-19-2015 08:35 AM
  4. Pete's Avatar
    And how, may I ask, do you know this?
    Universal Apps.

    In Windows Phone 7 & 8, some features (email/calendar/Office) were baked into the Operating system and the only way they'd be updated was through an OS update. As we know, none of these "baked in" apps have improved dramatically since the beginning of WP7. This is why Microsoft have created apps for other platforms have overtaken Windows Phone - they're not limited by the OS.

    With Windows 10, a great deal more is app based, so core features can easily be updated without waiting for the OS development team to implement them.
    05-19-2015 08:56 AM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    Universal Apps.

    In Windows Phone 7 & 8, some features (email/calendar/Office) were baked into the Operating system and the only way they'd be updated was through an OS update. As we know, none of these "baked in" apps have improved dramatically since the beginning of WP7. This is why Microsoft have created apps for other platforms have overtaken Windows Phone - they're not limited by the OS.

    With Windows 10, a great deal more is app based, so core features can easily be updated without waiting for the OS development team to implement them.
    But how do you KNOW FOR SURE it's going to happen? You talk like it is going to happen, like the sun coming up in the morning. I don't know, you don't know, Microsoft doesn't know. It might, it probably will eventually, but on the flip side it may not. Like I said, I think you're jumping the gun.

    From what I understand, we are not at the point where WinRT apps are as functional as Win32 apps. With W10P not running Win32 apps, it is still going to be limited. As time, and development, goes on, that will likely change. But Apple and Google are changing too. Time stands still for nobody, and nobody stands still.

    Sure, you can compare W10P (as it's projected to be in a year or two) to iOS and Android as they are now, but where will they be when W10P arrives? Not where they are now, that's for sure! It's like everyone here is assuming that iOS and Android are done advancing.
    theefman likes this.
    05-19-2015 09:07 AM
  6. Pete's Avatar
    The sun has already risen in the world of Windows 10 TP. The email and Office apps are Universal Apps and are downloaded/updated via the store. Now this has happened, I really have no idea why anyone would consider that Microsoft might decide not to continue with that and build them back into the OS again.

    We know that Microsoft have development tools to allow developers to share code between Windows and Android apps. It make complete sense for the core Office/Outlook apps to be developed for both platforms using this method.

    But you're welcome to refute this if you want to, and you probably will...
    05-19-2015 09:19 AM
  7. pericle's Avatar

    Exactly. Microsoft needs a game-changing feature in order to move that needle. I honestly believe the new W10 Flagships with continuum will be that game changing feature that no other flagship can match. If they add the fingerprint scanner, mobile payments compatible with Apple Pay (which is supposed to be in the works and coming soon), high end camera, and the other features to meet or exceed any other flagship available on the market, then continuum will be that feature that is a game-changer.

    I believe business users will jump on this first, for the convenience of using office on the big screen, keyboard, and mouse, from their phone while on a business trip or just whenever. I also believe a number of consumers will follow through soon after, like myself.
    So exactly how are business users supposed to use continuum when on a business trip? We know the phone can project to a larger screen, so what should the user do then, carry a computer monitor with him wherever he goes?
    theefman and Luuthian like this.
    05-19-2015 09:36 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    The sun has already risen in the world of Windows 10 TP. The email and Office apps are Universal Apps and are downloaded/updated via the store.
    Are they better than their iOS and Android counterparts? Of course you think so, for the simple fact that they're run on a Microsoft platform. But are they really?

    The sun has NOT yet risen. We can see the first rays of dawn on the eastern horizon. And when the sun does rise, we may not be able to see it for the storm clouds. Judging by the last several years, there will be clouds, with an occasional break giving us a ray of sunshine. Then the thunder and lightening resumes. Now, the forecast is that the storm is finally breaking for good. But yet, we do not know, and we won't until the sky is clear and the water recedes.

    Oh, the metaphors!!!
    05-19-2015 09:41 AM
  9. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    What I don't understand is why Microsoft doesn't port its own Android or iOS apps to Windows 10 Mobile TP. The claim is that it's easy to do. So why not use those ported apps, rather than a largely unusable TP version of Outlook?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    aximtreo likes this.
    05-19-2015 09:55 AM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    Just because they are now separate from the OS doesn't make them better, just easier to update. Judging from the outlook and office apps on ios and android Microsoft is going to treat all platforms equally so there will be no advantage for Microsoft's mobile platforms when it comes to their universal apps.

    Case in point: https://www.thurrott.com/office/3542...android-phones. Quote: "According to Microsoft, these new apps—which, again, closely mirror the similar/nearly identical apps on iPhone and Windows 10 Mobile".
    Last edited by theefman; 05-19-2015 at 11:16 AM.
    05-19-2015 09:57 AM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    What I don't understand is why Microsoft doesn't port its own Android or iOS apps to Windows 10 Mobile TP. The claim is that it's easy to do. So why not use those ported apps, rather than a largely unusable TP version of Outlook?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    I'm guessing those are 8.1-spec apps. Besides, the contacts on the Outlook app for either is totally unacceptable. Actually, the contact integration in Android as a whole is very disappointing.
    Laura Knotek and aximtreo like this.
    05-19-2015 10:07 AM
  12. Kevin Hill2's Avatar
    Just what exactly makes a phone a flagship? The hardware? The manufacturer? The camera? The name or number of the handset? Does every flagship phone have to run all the same Apps? Does it have to cost a lot? What does it need to be made out of, Plastic, Metal, composite, a combination of all these? How much memory and Ram does it need to have? Removable Battery? expandable memory? Is it only a Flagship until the next great thing surpasses it? Why isn't the M8 or 830 or even the new 640 good enough to be a flagship? Is the S3, S4 and S5 all now considered to be non flagships, How about the 920, 930 the 1020? They have all been surpassed by other phones. Does every Android phone have to run All the same software? Does every Windows phone have to run all the same Software? That's an easy answer for Apple they only make two phones, but how many Andriod hand sets are out there and they are all different. You, people, are waiting for one manufacturer to make one or two great Handsets to make you happy and 6 months down the time line you will be wanting the next super great one. So really, What makes a phone a flagship?
    05-19-2015 11:18 AM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    So really, What makes a phone a flagship?
    The best of the best.......today. Tomorrow it's something else.
    tgp, Laura Knotek and Stiv X like this.
    05-19-2015 11:52 AM
  14. Harrie-S's Avatar
    The best of the best.......today. Tomorrow it's something else.
    What does that mean? The minute a phone spec is announced it is a flagship but one minute later not anymore because whatever spec it has it always can be "better". Or the 930 and 1520 where never flagships because they do not have a 41 MP camera sensor?
    05-19-2015 12:13 PM
  15. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Just what exactly makes a phone a flagship? The hardware? The manufacturer? The camera? The name or number of the handset? Does every flagship phone have to run all the same Apps? Does it have to cost a lot? What does it need to be made out of, Plastic, Metal, composite, a combination of all these? How much memory and Ram does it need to have? Removable Battery? expandable memory? Is it only a Flagship until the next great thing surpasses it? Why isn't the M8 or 830 or even the new 640 good enough to be a flagship? Is the S3, S4 and S5 all now considered to be non flagships, How about the 920, 930 the 1020? They have all been surpassed by other phones. Does every Android phone have to run All the same software? Does every Windows phone have to run all the same Software? That's an easy answer for Apple they only make two phones, but how many Andriod hand sets are out there and they are all different. You, people, are waiting for one manufacturer to make one or two great Handsets to make you happy and 6 months down the time line you will be wanting the next super great one. So really, What makes a phone a flagship?
    It's kinda like art versus porn, you know it when you see it. I see it in my 930 (the flagship that is, not the porn). For some however, the defining factor seems to be that if it has Windows on it, it can't be a flagship.
    05-19-2015 12:24 PM
  16. YanivC's Avatar
    And of course... you .. who have all this time to write on a forum are the definitive source on how a multi billion dollar company should run its company? lol come on folks...
    05-19-2015 12:30 PM
  17. mathsisbest's Avatar
    And of course... you .. who have all this time to write on a forum are the definitive source on how a multi billion dollar company should run its company? lol come on folks...
    There were huge companies e.g. AOL Time Warner that failed. The size of a company doesn't mean its efficient, quite the contrary: smaller firms are more efficient than large monopolies.

    That's why competition is good ;)
    Dadstar0410 likes this.
    05-19-2015 12:34 PM
  18. YanivC's Avatar
    Not worth getting frustrated over.... I TOTALLY understand why and I STILL wish there was a flagship lol.
    I just recently shipped back a GS6e that I played around with for 3 weeks and the hardware was outstanding!!! Literally I couldn't understand why I couldn't have the best OS and the best hardware. Not to knock Nokia, the Lumia is amazing (830 for me) but still, that fingerprint scanner is so so so helpful and the screen was second to none.
    Again, we can all wish... "It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money." - Jack Handy
    scolab likes this.
    05-19-2015 12:37 PM
  19. Luuthian's Avatar
    What does that mean? The minute a phone spec is announced it is a flagship but one minute later not anymore because whatever spec it has it always can be "better". Or the 930 and 1520 where never flagships because they do not have a 41 MP camera sensor?
    Lets not read into this too deeply. A flagship is simply the best device offered in a particular category by the manufacturer as of today (which is usually easy to make out because it costs so freaking much). Almost all cellphone companies these days have a flagship phone and a flagship phablet.

    As it stands right now Microsoft's current flagships would be the Lumia 930 (regular phone) and Lumia 1520 (phablet).

    The 930 is only about 9 months old (if you don't count the Icon release date) so that's not terrible IMO. The 1520 is at least a year old. Not anything too crazy yet, in terms of a wait for a new phone, but I imagine part of what's killing everyone is the lack of consistency. You know Apple will release their phones generally the same time every year, as well as Google and Samsung. Microsoft has no regular release window and they're going to make most WP consumers wait... what? 3-5 months longer than a standard year long wait? Nothing major, but the lack of predictability is a little frustrating.
    Dadstar0410 likes this.
    05-19-2015 12:46 PM
  20. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Universal Apps.

    In Windows Phone 7 & 8, some features (email/calendar/Office) were baked into the Operating system and the only way they'd be updated was through an OS update. As we know, none of these "baked in" apps have improved dramatically since the beginning of WP7. This is why Microsoft have created apps for other platforms have overtaken Windows Phone - they're not limited by the OS.

    With Windows 10, a great deal more is app based, so core features can easily be updated without waiting for the OS development team to implement them.
    Just like how Xbox Music lol was updated lol lol lol sorry I died of laughter trying to finish that
    05-19-2015 02:26 PM
  21. colinkiama's Avatar
    Just like how Xbox Music lol was updated lol lol lol sorry I died of laughter trying to finish that
    There is a difference. With windows phone 8.1 they had two seperate xbox music apps to update. One for windows and one for windows phone. Obviously Microsoft was going to update the windows version because that's where most of there users are. But with windows 10 the phone app will definitely be updated because with windows 10 Microsoft can just add in lines of code and submit the update to the store and all the xbox music apps will be updated across all platforms.
    Dadstar0410 likes this.
    05-19-2015 02:34 PM
  22. YanivC's Avatar
    @mathisbest true, and thats why if you follow MS and their current CEO you know then that they have moved towards a rapid release cycle and they want to become the titanic that can move!. They realize that isolating themselves didnt work out too well and are now embracing other avenues of adoption.
    05-19-2015 02:41 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    What does that mean? The minute a phone spec is announced it is a flagship but one minute later not anymore because whatever spec it has it always can be "better". Or the 930 and 1520 where never flagships because they do not have a 41 MP camera sensor?
    I was mocking the fickle public that discards anything in the recent past with "the latest and greatest". Newer does not always equate to better.
    Harrie-S, Laura Knotek and Alain_A like this.
    05-19-2015 03:19 PM
  24. mark233's Avatar
    It's kinda like art versus porn, you know it when you see it. I see it in my 930 (the flagship that is, not the porn). For some however, the defining factor seems to be that if it has Windows on it, it can't be a flagship.
    This --- The One M8 is/was an HTC/Andoroid flagship ... rave reviews (in spite of the so-so camera) ... award winning design etc .... Put Windows OS in it and voila! -- run of the mill ho-hum - device that lots of people wouldn't be caught dead with lol
    IndyJG, Dadstar0410 and Stiv X like this.
    05-19-2015 04:59 PM
  25. fatclue_98's Avatar
    This --- The One M8 is/was an HTC/Andoroid flagship ... rave reviews (in spite of the so-so camera) ... award winning design etc .... Put Windows OS in it and voila! -- run of the mill ho-hum - device that lots of people wouldn't be caught dead with lol
    That's a separate Lumia-loving contingent who think the WP world begins and ends with Nokia. Same thing can be said with the Galaxy S4 and the Ativ SE. One was a stand-out and the other was an afterthought. BTW, the M8 did have a garbage camera whether WP or Android.

    Sent from my LG G3 via Tapatalk
    Laura Knotek, mark233 and Luuthian like this.
    05-19-2015 07:39 PM
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