08-10-2015 03:04 PM
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tools
  1. realwarder's Avatar
    The other big issue is that native BlackBerry app development pretty much disappeared.
    Windows desktop however is here to stay
    Laura Knotek and jomarr like this.
    08-08-2015 06:03 PM
  2. darkest.white's Avatar
    I'm not here to argue about platforms or anything but honestly, reading through this thread... as a BlackBerry users I can't help but see all the exact same discussions here as on CrackBerry with the BlackBerry 10 Android Runtime. I know MS implied it's different but really, it doesn't seem to be at this point. All the same errors and issues you all are having, are the same errors BlackBerry users had to deal with in regards to sideloading Android apps when it was introduced. No Google Play Services, apps not working, app crashes etc etc. I find this incredibly interesting to follow and look forward to seeing the progress you folks make.
    Also the key thing here is that Microsoft has not officially released this yet, nor is it intended for consumer use
    Alfa Kapa likes this.
    08-08-2015 06:18 PM
  3. DaveGx's Avatar
    Should we ever expect Notifications to work with these apps? I wonder if that will be possible. If not, thats really going to suck. Any one who is a dev think its possible in the future?
    08-08-2015 06:27 PM
  4. Dusan Randj's Avatar
    so basically I tested this out, found some problems, fixed those problems and then couldn't find any apps that I actually wanted to download. guess the app gap is a lot smaller than it used to be :P
    Exactly! I just came back from Android, I took a month long trip with LG Spirit and guess what I missed mostly? (after reliability and speed of wo)

    APPS!

    I missed WP apps on Android.... Office Lens, Lumia Camera, ProShot... Man, camera apps on Android really sucks.
    08-08-2015 06:52 PM
  5. iop777's Avatar
    Works fine on my Lumia 1020. Installed Casper with no problem, just make sure you have the Dev. Enhancement update.
    08-08-2015 06:58 PM
  6. Tourniquet's Avatar
    Works fine on my Lumia 1020. Installed Casper with no problem, just make sure you have the Dev. Enhancement update.
    Funny, how do you get it?

    I didn't get the dev update so it's not working for me :(
    08-08-2015 07:03 PM
  7. iop777's Avatar
    Funny, how do you get it?

    I didn't get the dev update so it's not working for me :(
    Did you use the USB method? The wifi method didn't work for me, gave me code 9 but the USB method worked fine.
    08-08-2015 07:17 PM
  8. Elitis's Avatar
    This is not an emulator. It does not simply run the app as is. It alters the app which is based on some person's intellectual property and is no one else's to alter except under very narrow instances of licensing.
    Actually, it does "simply run the app as is". By Microsoft's own admission, Windows Bridge for Android (Project Astoria) allows APKs to run unmodified. Exceptions are made for adding in Windows-specific features (i.e live tiles). Nothing gets altered unless the source code itself is altered, and this tool is not altering the source code. It does seem to be repackaging the APK inside of an APPX.
    mandong and Vlad C like this.
    08-08-2015 07:38 PM
  9. FinancialP's Avatar
    The other big issue is that native BlackBerry app development pretty much disappeared.
    There are a handful of devs that contribute to BBOS, they figured out a way around the snapchat blockage.

    I still want a passport myself, that thing is nice.

    Should we ever expect Notifications to work with these apps? I wonder if that will be possible. If not, thats really going to suck. Any one who is a dev think its possible in the future?
    No. See blackberry. No notifications, no IAP's, nada. The dev will have to make modifications which will make the app an native app.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-08-2015 07:52 PM
  10. hack14u's Avatar
    As a dev on Android, please don't do this. Wait for us to release apps properly. And I know people still will, be careful, you wouldn't believe what can be put in back of that app you just couldn't wait for.
    08-08-2015 08:23 PM
  11. Gamezone's Avatar
    Is this app suppose to have an official release?
    08-08-2015 09:25 PM
  12. msanda's Avatar
    ---- Warning long post ahead -----------
    So there is a lot of misconceptions on what exactly is going on with this approach. As a Windows phone/ios developer ( no I dont write android apps but was looking at targeting android with xarmin)
    For one msft never intended this tool to go out to the public, in fact the only real reason this tool exists is to prove to developers that they can target windows phone with little to no development if needed. this app was a proof of concept to show to android developers that Microsoft was serious on helping them move apps across echo systems. At build 2015 the tool that was shown off to us devs. It allowed devs to take their built apk, and run it through a Microsoft service that then show where possible problems could occur. From here developers can edit their apps with very minimal changes in the package sources to swap google services with Microsoft services, as well as live tile setup.

    So why was I so happy that the app actually worked. well pure and simple. at build we were shown a simple app, and we in the audience knew it will only work with the most basic apps, most of us never past by msft booths to actually take them on their offer. So as a windows fan, when I saw the application in the wild I wanted to prove to my self that it was still a useless toy. and to my greatest surprise it worked. now why did not belive this will work. very simple Microsoft is not running an android virtual machine. they are using windows 10 kernel and api extensions,hence the term bridges. this as some of the devs in the audience thought will be impossible for msft to achieve, because we all know and have seen the lack of api's over the versions of windows phone since 7.0. So to my surprise msft has achieved what no other company has done. this folks is not blackberries implementation or bluestacks. these apps are running as native as windows applications and this is what surprised me.

    Now I know lots of devs in my circle that could careless about windows phone, infact letting windows phone die will be a better choice for many. as we will not need to have tickets and requests come in for creating an app or supporting windows phone and its unique quirks. This is one of the main reason this tools existence will cause problems. support . Indy devs will love this because heck no need to learn c# or windows, and they dont have many tie ins to google play. so this is their blessing. but to those that have full time support agents and devs this will be a nightmare. even gps locations vary slightly based on different map providers. how do you support an application that is using a camera with a resolution higher than what your app is built for? how do you support users that are in the same location but each have different gps co-ordinates because of mapped wifi networks?

    So while we all celebrate this tool. lets remeber a few things. this app will probaly not work on future builds, as this is a huge blackey for msft, and google is damn well goign to make sure they change their approach to make sure windows phone remains less than 5%. This app is also one that i belive will never see the light of day as it creates a whole black market for windows phone that will cause more issues, as users will be sideloading and therby hurting windows store numbers.

    For Microsoft employees. Please please, allow apps to be created using apps like this, but require a signature which should be checked on windowsphone to help verify that those apps are being sideloaded by devs of the actuall app. Creating black markets is not going to win microsoft any favors.
    08-08-2015 09:41 PM
  13. Rodrigo Mendes's Avatar

    As for this tool, it's blackberry 2 years ago. Look at the strides BB10 has made /s
    No, it's not. I think the leak is not a good thing because people just don't know or understand the Astoria purpose. It's a tool for make the life of developers or companys a lot more easier.

    So I think that's nothing to do with BB.

    And there's more. Winodws 10 is here and it's a HUGE success. Companys and developers will need to create apps for Windows Phone. Project Astoria is here to help them.

    It's not a tool for users!

    Have this in mind guys.
    08-08-2015 09:51 PM
  14. FinancialP's Avatar
    No, it's not. I think the leak is not a good thing because people just don't know or understand the Astoria purpose. It's a tool for make the life of developers or companys a lot more easier.

    So I think that's nothing to do with BB.

    And there's more. Winodws 10 is here and it's a HUGE success. Companys and developers will need to create apps for Windows Phone. Project Astoria is here to help them.

    It's not a tool for users!

    Have this in mind guys.
    I don't want to argue, but Blackberry started off with the exact same convoluted steps before they eventually caved in and packaged the Amazon App Store so users didn't have to do the tedious steps.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-08-2015 10:13 PM
  15. froi francisco's Avatar
    i am pretty excited to read those who are going to find out that MS apps for Android are really better compared to those for WP....
    08-08-2015 10:15 PM
  16. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Actually, it does "simply run the app as is". By Microsoft's own admission, Windows Bridge for Android (Project Astoria) allows APKs to run unmodified. Exceptions are made for adding in Windows-specific features (i.e live tiles). Nothing gets altered unless the source code itself is altered, and this tool is not altering the source code. It does seem to be repackaging the APK inside of an APPX.
    You are taking a rather slimmed down view of this; "...allows APKs to run unmodified." That cannot be true. If it were, a developer would not need the SDK. All that would be needed would be to change the file extension. We both know it requires a bit more than that.

    So let me take this at its slimmed down version.

    You don't own the "Blargatron App." You may have bought a copy and that entitles you to use the App, but you don't "own" it. You did not create it and copyright it. You did not purchase the rights to it. You bought a use of it.

    Running it through this tool and repackaging it as an appx, even if it makes no other alterations aside from the "container," is still a violation of the true owner's rights under DMCA. There really is no way around it. Without express permission you can't do that legally. The container, or delivery and usage method, are part of the copyright and are granted protection along with the original parts of the work..

    It is a circumvention of a technological protection measure. The creator of the work designed and delivered it to run under a certain Operating System and it becomes an unauthorized distribution of the work for anyone other than the rightholder to make the change to enable it to run under another operating system. To "change the container." This is the difference between what Astoria accomplishes and what an emulator does...

    An emulator purposely keeps the delivery container intact to avoid triggering the circumvention standards. In case of an emulator, you are simply exercising the use you were granted at purchase. Use and alteration are demonstrably different actions.
    Laura Knotek, Muessig and tgp like this.
    08-08-2015 10:23 PM
  17. realwarder's Avatar
    Should we ever expect Notifications to work with these apps? I wonder if that will be possible. If not, thats really going to suck. Any one who is a dev think its possible in the future?
    There is a replacement for Google services that can be plugged in by the developer if they recompile and replaces things like notifications and maps. Pretty neat.
    08-08-2015 10:32 PM
  18. Ben_NC's Avatar
    I'd been reading about the Astoria leak with my news reader, but decided to try Bing and see what other coverage I might find. Scrolling through the results on my Windows phone, I noticed it said "Some results have been removed". Trying other searches (various search terms and queries), I did not encounter this message.



    So is msft hiding certain websites and links from their search results due to the Astoria leak?
    Attached Thumbnails 134186d9-db5d-445c-9305-7658eee3d573_tapatalkeditedimage.jpg  
    08-08-2015 11:03 PM
  19. Elitis's Avatar
    You are taking a rather slimmed down view of this; "...allows APKs to run unmodified." That cannot be true. If it were, a developer would not need the SDK. All that would be needed would be to change the file extension. We both know it requires a bit more than that.

    So let me take this at its slimmed down version.

    You don't own the "Blargatron App." You may have bought a copy and that entitles you to use the App, but you don't "own" it. You did not create it and copyright it. You did not purchase the rights to it. You bought a use of it.

    Running it through this tool and repackaging it as an appx, even if it makes no other alterations aside from the "container," is still a violation of the true owner's rights under DMCA. There really is no way around it. Without express permission you can't do that legally. The container, or delivery and usage method, are part of the copyright and are granted protection along with the original parts of the work..

    It is a circumvention of a technological protection measure. The creator of the work designed and delivered it to run under a certain Operating System and it becomes an unauthorized distribution of the work for anyone other than the rightholder to make the change to enable it to run under another operating system. To "change the container." This is the difference between what Astoria accomplishes and what an emulator does...

    An emulator purposely keeps the delivery container intact to avoid triggering the circumvention standards. In case of an emulator, you are simply exercising the use you were granted at purchase. Use and alteration are demonstrably different actions.
    Arguing where code, APIs, etc fall in under the DMCA was exactly why I stayed clear of the rest of the quoted post. It's a legal grey-zone right now, which is why I prefer not arguing over what you can and can't do. Although, I'd argue that something like this wasn't even thought of when the DMCA came about. Also, I think you're misunderstanding something. You don't need the (entire) SDK for this tool. You need the ADB (Android Debug Bridge). Something Android app developers need anyway. And this is something I've been debating internally with myself, but: you could think of it as being an emulator. To run unmodified, the Android OS (or at least the critically necessary part: Dalvik/ART) is there in some shape or form. You could argue that AOSP is being used and code is running natively, but emulating the closed-source parts would then become necessary.
    08-08-2015 11:16 PM
  20. karan madhyani1's Avatar
    After android apps
    The only windows thing abt mobile is tiles...
    I m worried abt consistency..
    Android apps just make the good lumia's as gud as a moto g(gen1) wich is just ok..

    The design of watsapp is gud
    But wen developers just port their existing apps..
    This os is a emulator..

    From consumer standpoint
    Its gud more apps more better..

    Also Microsoft may lose its 2% market share of loyal fan base(their ***** strategy / decision of releasing evrything on ios -android first)
    But might gain another 5% of other operating systems ..
    08-08-2015 11:29 PM
  21. hassan008092's Avatar
    mann why am i getting error =9 why why why why done everything still showing error =9 cant connect phone
    08-09-2015 12:27 AM
  22. RumoredNow's Avatar
    ...I'd argue that something like this wasn't even thought of when the DMCA came about. Also, I think you're misunderstanding something. You don't need the (entire) SDK for this tool. You need the ADB (Android Debug Bridge)...
    I believe the DCMA was enacted for exactly these types of instances, even if this specific case were not envisioned at the time. It is to help check electronic excess of proliferation when works are copyrighted and to help delineate what methods are sanctioned.

    When I said SDK, I guess I did misspeak... I meant it to refer to the Project Astoria tools, not anything in the Android SDK such as ADB.

    You aren't stating that ADB will translate an apk into an appx are you? That ADB is the only program being used to "Bridge" these apps?

    Is it really your contention that using this leaked tool does not alter a thing? If the tool does not alter anything, what use is it?

    Do you really believe that maintaining the published form of a work is not protected under copyright?

    What part of Windows 10 becomes an emulator? Microsoft has clearly stated that the goal and end result of Project Astoria is NOT emulation.


    It's a legal grey-zone right now,
    No. I'm sorry. Altering and distribution of works not your own, without express consent of the owner, is not a "grey-zone." It has never been. It always was and still remains prohibited.
    08-09-2015 12:27 AM
  23. Yazen's Avatar
    I'm not understanding what all the fuss is about. OpenMobile has had their ACL launched across several platforms without any legal issues.

    Microsoft plans to allow Android apps to their store, not as if they will be posting without consent.

    P.S: This leak had perfect timing.

    Edit: Astoria does not need to change anything. Not as if they are hacking executables here! Think WINE on Linux, only Android is open source.
    Vlad C and Alfa Kapa like this.
    08-09-2015 12:54 AM
  24. heickelrrx's Avatar
    From what I'm getting this tools allow android run on windows but the way they run isn't like they running on virtual layer but run on the OS itself.

    It's like that the tools recompile the apps so windows can run it natively. If it's run on virtual layer then there is no need for any tools at all but just a tweak on the OS itself
    RumoredNow likes this.
    08-09-2015 01:00 AM
  25. Yazen's Avatar
    I believe the DCMA was enacted for exactly these types of instances, even if this specific case were not envisioned at the time. It is to help check electronic excess of proliferation when works are copyrighted and to help delineate what methods are sanctioned.

    When I said SDK, I guess I did misspeak... I meant it to refer to the Project Astoria tools, not anything in the Android SDK such as ADB.

    You aren't stating that ADB will translate an apk into an appx are you? That ADB is the only program being used to "Bridge" these apps?

    Is it really your contention that using this leaked tool does not alter a thing? If the tool does not alter anything, what use is it?

    Do you really believe that maintaining the published form of a work is not protected under copyright?

    What part of Windows 10 becomes an emulator? Microsoft has clearly stated that the goal and end result of Project Astoria is NOT emulation.




    No. I'm sorry. Altering and distribution of works not your own, without express consent of the owner, is not a "grey-zone." It has never been. It always was and still remains prohibited.
    No altering. It's more like an APK is wrapped inside an APPX. Downloading an APK from an authors site and sideloading it onto a Windows Phone should not have any legal implications.
    08-09-2015 01:06 AM
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