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08-14-2015 12:14 PM
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  1. tmoore71's Avatar
    There is no doubt Betamax was superior to VHS back in the day. Unfortunately, VHS became the more popular format. Anyone else feel that way regarding WP10? There is little to no doubt that WP is superior to Android and, in many ways, IOS. There is also no doubt that Android/IOS are more popular. Anyone else feel that way, or am I obviously from another generation?
    08-10-2015 09:14 PM
  2. Furt's Avatar
    any fan of an underdog feels that way. You should see the peeps on Crackberry. they are in a worse position than WP, but I would argue that BB10 OS is as good as Android and better in every way to iOS. its very very different from WP but has an edge up with the ability to natively run Android apps. WP has a clear lead over it in sales though so I would call them the real betamax.
    08-10-2015 10:50 PM
  3. mprebich's Avatar
    If Windows phones ever did go by the wayside, I guess I would put all four of mine on the shelf next to my HD-DVD collection : /
    08-11-2015 03:23 AM
  4. mgerbasio's Avatar
    I don't like iOS but that's a personal preference. My problem with Android is that the manufacturers add bloatware, change it from the stock "experience" by using custom launchers and most importantly, updates may never come. From what I've read, most devices haven't been patched for the Stagefright malware. So, the only choice for me is with Nexus devices; the Nexus 5 was really nice but the Nexus 6, horrible. I'm using a Lumia 640 over the N6.

    There isn't one app that I'm missing on WP, but I don't play games, movies or snapchat type apps, just a boring old guy I guess. Actually, I do miss Google Maps, there isn't a substitute that is close to being that good. Since you used the analogy of those video formats, I'm guessing you're in the "older guy" crowd too. The tipping point for Betamax / VHS was the porn industry, maybe they need to adopt WP :)

    I really don't care about market share, company branding, etc. If the new Nexus 5 turns out to be better than the MS flagship phones this fall, I'll probably go back to Android. Right now, I like WP better for the reasons above, it ties in with my MS Office365 business account nicely and has better security. A lot of the apps on google are accessing data on the phone that they have no business touching and that was another reason for me switching.

    If BB had the Office apps, I'd look at them too.
    Al4video and Schnuffi like this.
    08-11-2015 06:41 AM
  5. DavidinCT's Avatar
    There is no doubt Betamax was superior to VHS back in the day. Unfortunately, VHS became the more popular format. Anyone else feel that way regarding WP10? There is little to no doubt that WP is superior to Android and, in many ways, IOS. There is also no doubt that Android/IOS are more popular. Anyone else feel that way, or am I obviously from another generation?
    Love my Windows Phone device but, I will admit sometimes I feel like that. Esp when I am watching TV or the radio an ad or news comes on and says something about "See our mobile apps" and it's something I am interested in....oh, wait, iOS and Android only....

    It is starting to get really old (been with WP for years now)....
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    08-11-2015 07:45 AM
  6. Panathas's Avatar
    Who cares, most apps suck anyways. It's really just "first world problems".
    Alfa Kapa, gwinegarden and Furt like this.
    08-11-2015 08:13 AM
  7. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Who cares, most apps suck anyways. It's really just "first world problems".
    Really ? Do you want to go there ? Actually MOST people care about apps, that is WHY the iPhone and Android sell more than Windows Phone.

    At the rate Windows Phone is growing right now, in about 3-5 years, you will be picking from a iOS or Android device if Windows Phone does not get more apps, they wont sell more phones and Microsoft will get a huge tax write off.

    Most sites work fine on IE but, some don't and their apps are better to use than their website...

    Microsoft knows this and this is why your seeing the leaked app that can install Android apps to Windows Phone, because with out the major and Minor apps, Windows Phone will fail as this has been PROVEN this is what people want.

    Microsoft is a large company and can be into it for a very long term but, when you keep dumping money into a project(for many years now) and it shows no major return on profit, how long does it take before you just drop the product and move on?
    08-11-2015 09:54 AM
  8. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    I hear you. I can deal with the App situation, since I'm not a big app user, but what I don't like is how the world is being locked down to Android and iOS when there is often no need.

    A good example of this, was when my wife wanted to quickly print a photo from her phone on a local Walmart Photo Kiosk. I thought, no problem, we should be able to bluetooth it across (as I had done that before). Of course, it was now obvious how long ago we'd last used one of these as it was now impossible to use the kiosk without first downloading their 'app'. I tried Wi-Fi and USB, but I could not get past it prompting me to download the app first.

    I'm sure it wasn't a concious decision by Fuji to deliberatley lock out non Android/iOS users. I can only guess using Bluetooth, Wi-Fi or simply connecting your phone to USB is too technical for the average user so they have dumbed it down by creating an App. Would be nice if they still included the ability to use regular bluetooth etc. but I guess it all comes down to that market share again as not being worth implementing...
    Schnuffi likes this.
    08-11-2015 10:05 AM
  9. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I hear you. I can deal with the App situation, since I'm not a big app user, but what I don't like is how the world is being locked down to Android and iOS when there is often no need.
    Actually your wrong there. There is a need. This is the BIG problem with Windows Phone. It comes down to basic math here.

    If you want to make mobile apps, you need the dev team to build the apps, then you have to support it, then you have to update it every once and a while and you have to market it, THIS ALL COSTS MONEY and it's not cheap. So when you look at the Mobile Market One has about 65% of the market, One has about 30-35% of the market and you got this little one that only has about 3.5% and you have blackberry, that is still hanging around 1% (give or take and these numbers are not accurate at all).

    So for output of cash, for the best app, that will target my market (If the store is in CA, the app is not going to be used in RI), Android and iOS would be the best bet for the app, as Windows Phone is growing, it still sits a low 3.5% and for the market I my company is in, that might be even less.

    So to make their money go the longest possible, as this point, spending the time making an app for Windows Phone would be almost pointless, as your going to spend a lot of money to make a good app and get very little return because it's got a very small market place and odds are even less in the market your trying to sell to.

    In a nut shell this is what happens. Now Microsoft sees this, low market share means low sales, lower amount of apps, means lower volume of profit in the long run. They have tried many things (starting from WP7), and although some have worked to get the BIG apps as they call it(by dumping a LOT of cash towards devs), it does not solve the WHOLE problem. No matter what they do, they cant really get over that 3.5-4% mark, they cant spend billions buying off apps to have apps, so they do the next best thing, give the tool to allow devs to convert their Android/iOS app to Windows Phone with very little work.

    So they did the work on their other apps (iOS and Android), so now it's easy to convert it. Then universal apps and with them giving away Windows 10, they want this to work, so millions of Windows 10 machines, means more apps, minor code changes, it's a Universal apps, and now it's a Windows Phone app.

    Microsoft knows this and they are desperate to get the apps, across all platforms, Once Windows Phone hits (if it ever makes it) to that 10-15% marketshare, you will see things change BIG time but, there is a REALLY long time and a lot of work from Microsoft before it gets there...

    On the other side, after 3-4 years of all this work (all these things to grow the market share) and they don't hit that large % (15-20%) and are still sitting around 3-5%, I think Windows Phone will be one of Microsoft's largest tax write offs....
    Last edited by DavidinCT; 08-11-2015 at 04:06 PM.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-11-2015 03:52 PM
  10. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    Actually your wrong there. There is a need. This is the BIG problem with Windows Phone. It comes down to basic math here.
    Actually you misread my post. I am *not* saying there is no need for apps. There most definitely is. What I was pointing out with the photo kiosk is the way things are being locked down when there is often no need, and by default, shutting everyone who is not Android/iOS out.

    You used to be able to use Photo Kiosks without the need for an App. No Development costs involved, but what's happened is they have now locked it down to these ecosystems by virtue of forcing you to need an App. There was a time when I could even take my humble Symbian phone and transfer a photo and print it out. Is it the end of the world? No as there are other ways we can achieve this, but of course the convenience factor has now gone.
    08-11-2015 04:25 PM
  11. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Actually you misread my post. I am *not* saying there is no need for apps. There most definitely is. What I was pointing out with the photo kiosk is the way things are being locked down when there is often no need, and by default, shutting everyone who is not Android/iOS out.

    You used to be able to use Photo Kiosks without the need for an App. No Development costs involved, but what's happened is they have now locked it down to these ecosystems by virtue of forcing you to need an App. There was a time when I could even take my humble Symbian phone and transfer a photo and print it out. Is it the end of the world? No as there are other ways we can achieve this, but of course the convenience factor has now gone.
    Yea, they used to be able to take flash cards/USB drives too (I know we have a store that does that too, my wife goes in there time to time), Now they need an app.... crazy world but, it's still like before, your stuck needing an app but, because of my reasons above, they wont make one.

    At least with Windows Phone 8/8.1 if you connect a USB cable to it, I will be like connecting a USB drive, Just like the iPhone (Picture sub folder when you connect a PC)... My wife has a iphone so sad to say, I know it pretty well (still hate it).

    With Windows Phone 7, you NEEDED Zune so if you connect a PC it would prompt for an install.
    08-11-2015 04:58 PM
  12. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    At least with Windows Phone 8/8.1 if you connect a USB cable to it, I will be like connecting a USB drive, Just like the iPhone (Picture sub folder when you connect a PC)... My wife has a iphone so sad to say, I know it pretty well (still hate it).
    That's the thing, even trying to connect as a USB drive it would ask you to install an app. There was infuriatingly no way around it!

    As a last resort we could've cracked open the case and taken the card out and with an adapter plugged it into the memory card slot, but that's getting a bit too involved just for a photo or two LOL
    DavidinCT likes this.
    08-11-2015 05:28 PM
  13. seb_r's Avatar
    I agree. We riding a dead horse. WP is around long enough to compete with Androind and iOS and we all know what is the outcome of it. MS as a big software company just "has to" be involved in mobile devices. For prestigious reasons. Not neccessarily to gain marketshare. So their aim is primarily to show what is possible with their devices and what can be done - like in a concept.
    If you tell others what are the "new" features about Windows 10 mobile then people will laugh at you. Most of this is available in android for years already. Just lately MS is trying to catch up and embracing android. But again way too late, way too slow and way too inconsistent.
    WP is not future proof at all and past has shown how MS can change their mind and drop any hardware.
    theefman likes this.
    08-11-2015 06:06 PM
  14. Yazen's Avatar
    There is no doubt Betamax was superior to VHS back in the day. Unfortunately, VHS became the more popular format. Anyone else feel that way regarding WP10? There is little to no doubt that WP is superior to Android and, in many ways, IOS. There is also no doubt that Android/IOS are more popular. Anyone else feel that way, or am I obviously from another generation?
    I've gotten familiar with the Windows 10 Mobile preview. Most of what I loved from the Metro design is missing. Live tiles aren't nearly as useful or aesthetically pleasing as they once were. Notifications haven't improved in a significant way.

    Not happy with the OS experience. Not nearly as coherent as WP7, and nowhere near as powerful as Android can be. Only advantage is retail price... I'd go so far to say WP is the poor man's smartphone OS.
    Kram Sacul and theefman like this.
    08-11-2015 06:49 PM
  15. Rodrigo Mendes's Avatar
    There is no doubt Betamax was superior to VHS back in the day. Unfortunately, VHS became the more popular format. Anyone else feel that way regarding WP10? There is little to no doubt that WP is superior to Android and, in many ways, IOS. There is also no doubt that Android/IOS are more popular. Anyone else feel that way, or am I obviously from another generation?
    Pretty much like this, but Microsoft have money cheat and Windows 10 - it's the new XP - success will estimulate apps for Windows 10 Mobile.

    I think Windows 10 will be the turnaround for MS mobile experience.
    08-11-2015 08:15 PM
  16. enixon's Avatar
    I've gotten familiar with the Windows 10 Mobile preview. Most of what I loved from the Metro design is missing. Live tiles aren't nearly as useful or aesthetically pleasing as they once were. Notifications haven't improved in a significant way.

    Not happy with the OS experience. Not nearly as coherent as WP7, and nowhere near as powerful as Android can be. Only advantage is retail price... I'd go so far to say WP is the poor man's smartphone OS.
    I can safely disagree with this comment 100% I feel that the CURRENT Windows 10 Mobile TP is coherent. The notification system is the same, but allows certain enhancements like quick reply.

    You are literally not even talking about the same operating system, and then go on to say something about cost of an operating system you cannot buy.

    Power is objective in hardware. There are CURRENTLY no flagship Windows phones, so saying Android is more powerful than Windows Mobile is an asinine thing to say. From my experience Windows Mobile is more efficient than Android, and running on the same hardware proves to favor Windows Phone...IE HTC One M8.

    Retail price... I have no idea how the this even makes sense. There is no retail price of Android or Windows Phones. If you are trying to say Windows Phones are cheaper than Android, well you are still wrong. There are Android phones that cost as little, or less, than our cheapest Windows Phone.
    08-11-2015 11:42 PM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Actually you misread my post. I am *not* saying there is no need for apps. There most definitely is. What I was pointing out with the photo kiosk is the way things are being locked down when there is often no need, and by default, shutting everyone who is not Android/iOS out.

    You used to be able to use Photo Kiosks without the need for an App. No Development costs involved, but what's happened is they have now locked it down to these ecosystems by virtue of forcing you to need an App. There was a time when I could even take my humble Symbian phone and transfer a photo and print it out. Is it the end of the world? No as there are other ways we can achieve this, but of course the convenience factor has now gone.
    The thing is, most people don't bother printing from a photo kiosk while standing in front of it with their phones in their hands. These photo printing features found in store apps (Walmart, Sam's Club, CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid) allow one to send a picture from his/her phone from any location, and then pick up the prints later. It usually only takes about 2 hours max from the time the pictures are sent using the app until the prints are ready. I've taken pictures when I was out somewhere, sent them to the store right after taking them, and picked them up on the way home. I even get to choose which store location, and I get a notification when the prints are ready.

    Last edited by Laura Knotek; 08-12-2015 at 02:41 AM.
    minus365 likes this.
    08-11-2015 11:58 PM
  18. rayf888's Avatar
    Speaking of which, the Betamax lose the consumer market. But made it's way into professional market and dominated for years...

    Now we got Win10 IoT, things would start getting interesting....
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-12-2015 02:23 AM
  19. taymur's Avatar
    There is no doubt Betamax was superior to VHS back in the day. Unfortunately, VHS became the more popular format. Anyone else feel that way regarding WP10? There is little to no doubt that WP is superior to Android and, in many ways, IOS. There is also no doubt that Android/IOS are more popular. Anyone else feel that way, or am I obviously from another generation?
    Your analogy is correct in regards to WP, Microsoft noticed this...

    And decided:

    The hell with the VHS Betamax competition... we will be Universal (pun intended), and provide movies on all medias regardless of their popularity.
    Last edited by taymur; 08-12-2015 at 07:44 AM. Reason: clarity
    08-12-2015 02:35 AM
  20. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    There is no doubt Betamax was superior to VHS back in the day. Unfortunately, VHS became the more popular format. Anyone else feel that way regarding WP10? There is little to no doubt that WP is superior to Android and, in many ways, IOS. There is also no doubt that Android/IOS are more popular. Anyone else feel that way, or am I obviously from another generation?
    Why not just say "Microsoft is doing Another Windows RT"...
    Those of us who are stupid enough to buy a Windows phone (again) will suffer the same fate as the ones who bought the Surface RT. Microsoft are clearly not focusing on their phones a tiny bit for the moment (not the hardware, not the OS (yeah, we will get that "glorious W10M someday, right...) , not the apps and not the marketing).

    I predict that MS will focus 100% on being a service provider and then there is no room for "phones". They can sell as much Office service to an Android or an iPhone as for a (failing) Windows phone.
    Last edited by Ian_Superfly; 08-12-2015 at 11:45 AM.
    08-12-2015 09:08 AM
  21. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    Why not just say "Microsoft is doing Another Windows RT"...
    Those of us who are stupid enough to buy a Windows phone (again) will suffer the same fate as the once who bought the Surface RT. Microsoft are clearly not focusing on their phones a tiny bit for the moment (not the hardware, not the OS (yeah, we will get that "glorious W10M someday, right...) , not the apps and not the marketing).

    I predict that MS will focus 100% on being a service provider and then there is no room for "phones". They can sell as much Office service to an Android or an iPhone as for a (failing) Windows phone.
    The big mistake Microsoft did, was in making Windows RT a separate version of Windows instead of following the example of iOS and Android and using Windows Phone OS, modifying it slightly to take advantage of the larger screen.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-12-2015 09:54 AM
  22. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Really ? Do you want to go there ? Actually MOST people care about apps, that is WHY the iPhone and Android sell more than Windows Phone.

    At the rate Windows Phone is growing right now, in about 3-5 years, you will be picking from a iOS or Android device if Windows Phone does not get more apps, they wont sell more phones and Microsoft will get a huge tax write off.

    Most sites work fine on IE but, some don't and their apps are better to use than their website...

    Microsoft knows this and this is why your seeing the leaked app that can install Android apps to Windows Phone, because with out the major and Minor apps, Windows Phone will fail as this has been PROVEN this is what people want.

    Microsoft is a large company and can be into it for a very long term but, when you keep dumping money into a project(for many years now) and it shows no major return on profit, how long does it take before you just drop the product and move on?
    iOS does not sell because of its apps. It sells because it's a fashion accessory. One you have with yourself all the time. Much like a woman buys a purse that is fashionable. And because it sells apps are developed for it. People don't just decide to start developing apps for something that is not popular or has no chance of being popular. These companies initially provided their own native features/apps so that the phone could do what people needed. The apps came after the sales. Most people that I know which have iOS barely run any apps. A few games, and some specific apps they use. Mostly iMessage and social stuff. I know so many people with iOS and not a single person uses snapchat or any other bs people complain about. The stats already showed snapchat is popular amongst 14-16 year olds. And their attention span changes quickly so snapchat could just bottom out any moment.

    Point is that initially it's the overall package provided that attracts people. iOS initially came with features/apps that it knew would provide the majority of services people use. It didn't have its own mapping system so it used Googles. And it was friendly with google because they know people don't just switch their e-mail address or services. They need to be introduced to the new services while still using their old. Not forced into it. It's their choice.
    Ok so back to Microsoft. These guys have some awesome technology that no one really knows about. Bing maps is way better than google maps. you look at mapspreview online and it's amazing. You need to have an app that uses this technology as a default. Allow google maps as well because people will be reluctant to change. Make a freaking deal with google. It almost seems like what google is doing falls under anti-trust laws especially if Microsoft has approached them and tried to make deals.

    Maps aside, they have some great apps that would make for a great starter package that would cover the majority of people. Apps would cover the rest. The problem is those apps aren't in the windows eco system. They are either on the web or on the other platforms. The windows versions are poor and very little effort seems to be made into design.

    Next create a phone that is a beauty. There hasn't been a single MS/nokia phone that could be considered an artistic/fashionable design. Stop following in nokia's footsteps. There have been some really nice concept phones showed off online but knowing Microsoft it will look like a lumia 830 or something of that sort. The lumia 830 is their best looking phone in my opinion but it's still not on par with iphone 6. People like curves. It's in our nature almost. Even when we look at the female form we think of curves. The cars considered best looking are all full of curves. The monroe buildings in Canada voted as some of the best design in architecture are curvy. So stop with the freaking squarish bs! The square edges just jam into peoples' palms. Anyways, we will see what they do with the phones. The leaked phones look terrible, but then again it has been told time and time again it's a reference for engineers, so hope it ends up looking nicer.
    08-12-2015 10:21 AM
  23. Rich215's Avatar
    ^^^^^^ all of that ^^^^^^ werd tu ya dirti finga !
    08-12-2015 10:30 AM
  24. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    The way I think of it is this: I know I have a better product and just because Microsoft lost the first round of the smartphone saga does not mean they will lose the next round. Likewise, Sony lost with Betamax but won with Blu Ray. In the meantime, I'm happy with my superior product and willing to sacrifice some apps in exchange for not being part of exclusive clubs of inferior iPhone and Android.
    08-12-2015 05:22 PM
  25. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    The way I think of it is this: I know I have a better product and just because Microsoft lost the first round of the smartphone saga does not mean they will lose the next round. Likewise, Sony lost with Betamax but won with Blu Ray. In the meantime, I'm happy with my superior product and willing to sacrifice some apps in exchange for not being part of exclusive clubs of inferior iPhone and Android.
    The trouble is they 'won' just as the world is starting to move away from disc formats lol
    08-12-2015 06:32 PM
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