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09-14-2015 10:33 PM
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  1. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    .....If you're not satisfied leave Windows. It's that simple. ....
    Yes, it is that simple.
    As soon as the new iPhone is out I am out of this strange Microsoft World of confused endless waiting while getting less and less features while the other systems got more and more goodies.
    09-08-2015 01:58 PM
  2. no1herd's Avatar
    I am quite anxious for the big announcement tomorrow myself. Can't wait to preorder and get a phone with support!! Apps that actually work and not wait months for the app to begin with.
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    09-08-2015 04:17 PM
  3. rayf888's Avatar
    I agree most people are concerning about the future of pureview camera...

    And as someone suggested, switch to a different platform if you don't like it.... Hmm.. Hang on, I'm sure the majority of the iPhone users can tell you how difficult that could be...
    09-08-2015 07:34 PM
  4. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    what does it mean?? nothing, because for MS indeed means nothing, as they do not care! Look at the windows camera app..I've never seen a worse camera app ever!! Simply trash! crap! while Lumia Camera for most devices is not available anymore...how nice isn't it? I remember a fraze from Pirates of Silicon Valley: Sorry Steve, but you're late! I got there first, I've go the loot!.... Here the things seem the other way arround: Sorry MS, but you're late and you have no idea about what quality means and about care for customers. Others got the loot...
    09-09-2015 03:01 AM
  5. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    Yes, more than 75mil users with windows 10, but how many of these area actually still using it and have not reverted back to either 8.1 or 7?? Sorry, but I cannot use on my productive machine a "good enough" OS, incomplete and with bugs. Windwos 10 died on my lenovo miix3 in three weeks with merely no apps installed on it. Nice isn't it...No, I don't want to see anymore windows in my house for a long period...until MS decides to do some quality jobs instead of guinea pig testing on us.
    09-10-2015 03:57 AM
  6. Paolo Ferrazza's Avatar
    Yes, more than 75mil users with windows 10, but how many of these area actually still using it and have not reverted back to either 8.1 or 7?? Sorry, but I cannot use on my productive machine a "good enough" OS, incomplete and with bugs. Windwos 10 died on my lenovo miix3 in three weeks with merely no apps installed on it. Nice isn't it...No, I don't want to see anymore windows in my house for a long period...until MS decides to do some quality jobs instead of guinea pig testing on us.
    How can an os "die" on a device? :D
    09-10-2015 04:59 AM
  7. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    How can an os "die" on a device? :D
    Well, simple. I wasn't aware of this possibility until now on win10. Must be a feature MS forgot to tell us about :))))


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    09-10-2015 09:31 AM
  8. Paolo Ferrazza's Avatar
    Maybe it is a so called language barrier but I do not get what you are trying to say :D
    09-10-2015 09:34 AM
  9. TechFreak1's Avatar
    In the end the CEO oversees everything. And any decisions being made are going to be for the benefit of Microsoft. Lumia apps are a horrible idea. Lumia firmware is a horrible idea. See Microsoft wants to control the update process with windows 10. Having everything unified across oems will allow them to do this. I'm sure it will also provide ways for OEMs to add some of their own stuff as well(likely in the form of updates through store), but in the end your version of windows should always be the latest that is out as it is a service.

    And once again you are complaining about uncompleted software. Even Desktop has many uncompleted apps, it is well known that windows 10 is not complete. The launch of desktop early on was to gain high adoption rates as quickly as possible. It's the "good enough" approach. I mean look at the people app it's terrible. There is massive inconsistencies and just overall is not a highly refined OS. But you know what 75 million users are already on it. So launching it early wasn't a bad idea on their part. Now these 75 million users can expect updates where the OS will become nicer and more polished over time. Apps are already coming out at a higher rate than ever for windows. Updates from major app suppliers such as twitter. The app developers are seeing the adoption rate and are now deciding that maybe it's worth investing. So would you prefer it was finished, released way later and now you have a much longer wait for apps to start getting developed, etc.. Microsoft has a vision and your complaining won't change it. This is a huge undertaking for them. The amount of work involved in building the OS for all these systems, all the apps, plus maintaining a great presence on IOS/Android in order to get people to experience MS. It's huge. And on top of that they are doing insider builds which are also a lot of work and take time away from other things they could be doing.

    If you're not satisfied leave Windows. It's that simple. Microsoft is obviously taking their chances that people may be unsatisfied with the progress, but in the end it won't stop their final vision. And once things are finished and smooth, you may come back, or you may not like it. Fact is you have no clue what the end result will be. None of us do.
    Well that's extremely obvious, if the company is doing well - praise the CEO - doing badly - blame the CEO. But it's the Upper management that usually calls the daily decisions. Not just Microsoft but their shareholders, as long they (Microsoft) continue to make profit, there will be little dissent amongst them.

    Lumia exclusive apps were a brand USP created by Nokia to sell windows phones as OEM's were not allowed to customise the UI. So they had to find other ways to differentiate themselves. It wasn't stupid but it was a means to an end but it doesn't mean you just completely pull the plug on key apps before you have replacements up and running. What about people who have downgraded from the Mobile preview or did a hard reset, how will they install these apps again?.

    Heck when Windows Phone 7 came out, Microsoft had strict goals - the phone must have three buttons, a camera button, must use a design certified for QRD, if custom it must confirm to guidelines set by them. This is primarily the reason why the HTC HD2 did not get WP7 because it didn't meet the 3 button requirement - because they wanted everyone to have a "consistent experience" where is that experience now?

    Whether you like it or not, firmware is an integral part of any computing hardware be it a desktop PC or a IOT device. Trying to control the update procedure now is far too late now for quite a lot of people. They have been burned by Tmobile refusing to update the 810, Verizon killing the Icon - being two recentish events fitting this timescale. They aren't going to blame T-Mobile or Verizon, but Microsoft.

    Seeing adoption rates?

    Everyone knows Windows rules the desktop space, if you don't have a presence on desktop space be it an app or not - you do not have a presence at all. If Apple (iTunes) or Google (chrome browser) could've bypassed Windows in reaching users I'm totally sure they would have. Clearly evident from historical actions. Services like Twitter have reach critical mass as they are platform agonistic so they can afford to abide their time. Never the less tell me how many mouse and keyboard users are really going to use the store as it is?

    Not everyone, until the day pretty much all high profile Win32 apps are offered through the store thus "conditioning" them to download through the store as opposed through a download manager or browser.

    The pull is not the adoption rates but the potential growth as Universal apps offers a gateway to the xbox, phone, tablets and IOT, however the former is currently strictly locked down. It's a no brainer, if you want to grow, you go where the growth is and don't sit on the platforms where growth will slowly taper off. The only exception here is Microsoft, by being platform agnostic they will always cannibalise windows phone sales hence it will never really accelerate but slowly grow over a period of time. Sure continuum has a lot of use cases but people are already nestled into ecosystems already. Which is another reason why Microsoft has taken the platform agnostic approach.

    Windows will continue to be the defacto operating system for decades to follow, but that doesn't mean Microsoft can seat on their laurels. Hololens was their yard stick pushing away the criticism that they are being stagnant, showing the world that they aren't going to be another IBM.

    They (Microsoft) aren't getting people to experience "MS" on Android or ios, they are acting like any other company and rightly so that's where the money is. However when you just cut almost all Windows Phone teams - that doesn't look good no matter how much sugar, honey, molasses what ever you coat that pill it will always be a bitter pill to swallow. Plus then you have decisions like killing the Lumia beta website, it may not have been used by many people. But it is little actions like these that are used "tech proficient" sales staff to further drive people away from Windows phone.

    You may not be aware of it but I've been an insider also and have submitted a lot of feedback like others both on the desktop and mobile. I'm aware it is unfinished but what I'm saying is you need to take of the rose tinted glasses and look at the perspective from others. Some are not going to wait, when I said Groove makes me sick (I was merely indicating an example).
    That is primarily because they had so much time to fix the app (Starting from Windows 8 it was horrible in the previews, which did not have any of the start up tutorials - these came later), which they could have easily moved to a universal app but no. For a lot of people this will be their go to music app as that is preinstalled with the O/S (to a certain extent). But it is an extremely sub par experience and that is not good for a first party app. When People look at the task manager and see it taking 100 megs of ram despite being idle and being less functional then Winamp (which takes at most 20 megs, windows media classic takes even less when idle). Any company would at least get their first party applications upto scratch especially a Music app whether you listen to audiobooks, music, poetry, language tapes etc in lossless or not it is something that everyone uses on a daily basis..

    Furthermore if I was "complaining" about unfinished software I wouldn't have willingly installed the preview build, after build and provide essays of feedback. So no, I'm not complaining - being highly critical and whinging are two different things entirely perhaps you need to learn to understand the difference - yes, I'm being condescending here as you have no authority to tell a person to "leave windows", no one does. As I find your tone "simply just leave" both ignorant and patronising.

    As the fact of the matter no one can "leave Windows" as it is embedded into our lives - it runs on ATM machines, point of sale units etc. Heck predominately all work based PCs are windows machines. So yes, hate to be pedantic it is not that "simple".

    Lastly quit taking it personally, this is not a cult or way of life - Windows is a simply a means to an end - a daily tool and finely integrated one at that.
    rayf888 likes this.
    09-10-2015 09:50 AM
  10. Krystianpants's Avatar

    Lumia exclusive apps were a brand USP created by Nokia to sell windows phones as OEM's were not allowed to customise the UI. So they had to find other ways to differentiate themselves. It wasn't stupid but it was a means to an end but it doesn't mean you just completely pull the plug on key apps before you have replacements up and running. What about people who have downgraded from the Mobile preview or did a hard reset, how will they install these apps again?.
    That's been my problem with my lumia 830. Every time I reset the device the lumia apps start downloading and I have to go in the store and cancel them. I don't like them nor do I want them on there. Has anyone tested if these apps don't download when the reset? It may be they pulled them from new users getting them but lumia phones are still capable of getting them after reset.

    Heck when Windows Phone 7 came out, Microsoft had strict goals - the phone must have three buttons, a camera button, must use a design certified for QRD, if custom it must confirm to guidelines set by them. This is primarily the reason why the HTC HD2 did not get WP7 because it didn't meet the 3 button requirement - because they wanted everyone to have a "consistent experience" where is that experience now?
    Sure but if you want the OEMs to bite you need to give them more freedom. Designing phone hardware is not an easy job and if their facilities require updates and they require changes to their circuitry, they are less likely to take a chance on a platform. And this also gives OEMs a way to stand out and be different because they may do something no other OEM is doing. It's like the world of PCs, more open and allowing manufacturers to design laptops and devices that made their manufacturing process work for them.

    Whether you like it or not, firmware is an integral part of any computing hardware be it a desktop PC or a IOT device. Trying to control the update procedure now is far too late now for quite a lot of people. They have been burned by Tmobile refusing to update the 810, Verizon killing the Icon - being two recentish events fitting this timescale. They aren't going to blame T-Mobile or Verizon, but Microsoft.
    Sure, but if windows becomes less dependent on firmware, this allows firmware updates to be separated from OS updates. You will get the latest Windows OS and any firmware for specific hardware features controlled by the OEM can be updated separately. When was the last time you updated the bios or any firmware on your PC? I have an actual app from MSI to do the firmware updates, but there never are any. The OS will make sure all SOCs are supported and obviously firmware will already come with the device you purchase. Any changes will be enhancements. Have you ever gotten a windows update that required your PC to have a firmware update to function or increase speed?


    Seeing adoption rates?

    Everyone knows Windows rules the desktop space, if you don't have a presence on desktop space be it an app or not - you do not have a presence at all. If Apple (iTunes) or Google (chrome browser) could've bypassed Windows in reaching users I'm totally sure they would have. Clearly evident from historical actions. Services like Twitter have reach critical mass as they are platform agonistic so they can afford to abide their time. Never the less tell me how many mouse and keyboard users are really going to use the store as it is?

    Not everyone, until the day pretty much all high profile Win32 apps are offered through the store thus "conditioning" them to download through the store as opposed through a download manager or browser.
    The end result is to have all apps going through the windows store. See, today if you want an app you have to go through the web searching and you may not even find the right one or even the best one. Then you search the web to see which app is best and all that. This will maximize app exposure for people who typically made w32 apps. They can put it in the store and don't have to worry someone will find them on the web. Now there's ratings and comments right in the store and updates can be issued without having to have to build an update client right into the app. It's not a short process this is why they have their 2 year plan.

    The pull is not the adoption rates but the potential growth as Universal apps offers a gateway to the xbox, phone, tablets and IOT, however the former is currently strictly locked down. It's a no brainer, if you want to grow, you go where the growth is and don't sit on the platforms where growth will slowly taper off. The only exception here is Microsoft, by being platform agnostic they will always cannibalise windows phone sales hence it will never really accelerate but slowly grow over a period of time. Sure continuum has a lot of use cases but people are already nestled into ecosystems already. Which is another reason why Microsoft has taken the platform agnostic approach.

    Windows will continue to be the defacto operating system for decades to follow, but that doesn't mean Microsoft can seat on their laurels. Hololens was their yard stick pushing away the criticism that they are being stagnant, showing the world that they aren't going to be another IBM.

    They (Microsoft) aren't getting people to experience "MS" on Android or ios, they are acting like any other company and rightly so that's where the money is. However when you just cut almost all Windows Phone teams - that doesn't look good no matter how much sugar, honey, molasses what ever you coat that pill it will always be a bitter pill to swallow. Plus then you have decisions like killing the Lumia beta website, it may not have been used by many people. But it is little actions like these that are used "tech proficient" sales staff to further drive people away from Windows phone.

    You may not be aware of it but I've been an insider also and have submitted a lot of feedback like others both on the desktop and mobile. I'm aware it is unfinished but what I'm saying is you need to take of the rose tinted glasses and look at the perspective from others. Some are not going to wait, when I said Groove makes me sick (I was merely indicating an example).
    That is primarily because they had so much time to fix the app (Starting from Windows 8 it was horrible in the previews, which did not have any of the start up tutorials - these came later), which they could have easily moved to a universal app but no. For a lot of people this will be their go to music app as that is preinstalled with the O/S (to a certain extent). But it is an extremely sub par experience and that is not good for a first party app. When People look at the task manager and see it taking 100 megs of ram despite being idle and being less functional then Winamp (which takes at most 20 megs, windows media classic takes even less when idle). Any company would at least get their first party applications upto scratch especially a Music app whether you listen to audiobooks, music, poetry, language tapes etc in lossless or not it is something that everyone uses on a daily basis..

    Furthermore if I was "complaining" about unfinished software I wouldn't have willingly installed the preview build, after build and provide essays of feedback. So no, I'm not complaining - being highly critical and whinging are two different things entirely perhaps you need to learn to understand the difference - yes, I'm being condescending here as you have no authority to tell a person to "leave windows", no one does. As I find your tone "simply just leave" both ignorant and patronising.

    As the fact of the matter no one can "leave Windows" as it is embedded into our lives - it runs on ATM machines, point of sale units etc. Heck predominately all work based PCs are windows machines. So yes, hate to be pedantic it is not that "simple".

    Lastly quit taking it personally, this is not a cult or way of life - Windows is a simply a means to an end - a daily tool and finely integrated one at that.
    Alright I apologize if I sound condescending. But I'm talking about windows from a consumer perspective. You go to work you don't use groove or anything else, you should be working. Their windows is setup for the needs of the company, not the individual consumer. I know many people who use only Apple products so yes, you can leave Windows on a consumer level for your own needs. If you do not find the alternatives as good, then your essentially saying that Windows is the best still even though they are half-assing everything, so it can only get better. But you do realize what a massive undertaking this is for them. And pulling certain apps that will be replaced is in fact a good idea because you don't want new windows users to become dependent on them.

    And yes it's good to give constructive feedback. It's just the tone most people set is extremely negative as if it's the end of the world. Just maintain a positive vibe. I remember Google pulled reader and stopped supporting it. At the time I was not very happy but I found some really great alternatives as a result. Now I use Readiy and i'm a happy camper. I will always use windows on my desktop as long as it is still viable for me to keep a Desktop. For the longest time I only used a laptop and typically used linux, but decided to build a gaming rig. Microsoft does need to satisfy the stock holders no doubt, but you're forgetting they need to satisfy the OEMs too. They were responsible for a lot of losses because of Windows 8 and now Google is a threat and is trying to steal the OEMs for laptops and other uses as they build up their own OS.

    So here they are building an OS that will work across so many various platforms, building development kits and APIs to make things easier for developers, and trying to make sure the OS is also the most secure one they have built so enterprises can make the move. They can't drop their current solutions and need to make sure they are the best you can get on every platform, especially the most popular platforms. On top of that they have the huge insider program which is also an undertaking on its own. They are also working on apps for the future OS not for the old one. There priorities make sense for them. Balmer ran the show and they fell behind. Stock holders want vision and that's what Satya is bringing to them. Consumers will always take hits with progress of technology, it's just the way things work. Technology moves rapidly and when people get mad that their 2 year old phone won't be supported or other stuff, that's sad but it's the reality of tech. You either adapt or fall behind. Their previous music app may have been better because they put more effort and time into it but they have a lot of competition that are doing things differently and they are taking users away. If their other solution didn't bring users in they can't stick around with it. So giving feedback is the best thing we can do no doubt. But give feedback to Microsoft. They are the ones that need to know this stuff. (and I know you did but speaking in general). And nothing wrong with mentioning things you dislike in the forums but man lets keep these forums cheery. We get enough negativity in the media. It's like people took a personal blow because MS was part of the Apple keynote. Yes, they are a software company. Keeping good relations with competitors is actually a good thing.

    Hey I considered iphone for my next phone but since my lumia 830 is still meeting my needs I don't really need to replace it. And I am enjoying mobile 10 on it. I've given my feedback on some of the things I dislike.

    I know people keep saying that they have been waiting for years. But that was with Balmer. I'm curious what Satya pulls off.

    And my honest opinion is that continuum will fail unless MS puts screens/keyboards in coffee shops, airports and anywhere else people like to work. It may work better in the enterprise world where people are issued phones anyways. I could care less about it because I have a better desktop when I'm at home. But that's just my opinion.
    09-10-2015 01:32 PM
  11. TechFreak1's Avatar
    That's been my problem with my lumia 830. Every time I reset the device the lumia apps start downloading and I have to go in the store and cancel them. I don't like them nor do I want them on there. Has anyone tested if these apps don't download when the reset? It may be they pulled them from new users getting them but lumia phones are still capable of getting them after reset.
    That is by design and has been since Wp7, as Windows phone did not and does not have a back up system that backs up everything on the phone. Furthermore unlike Windows Mobile 6.x you cannot run a back up app and make local back up or to an msd card. The primary reasons the store apps download from the store, 1) that is to ensure that a less space is taken up be it on the phone during the backup process or in the cloud as all new users were only given a set amount. If everything was allowed to be backed up it will take awhile and plus not everyone has unlimited broadband or mobile internet.

    2) Reduce processing is done in the background when auto backing up as invariably everything would need to compressed and then uploaded to onedrive for the back up if they are to fit a lot of back ups into the allocated space. Likewise reduce the time the data is migrated, as prior to Cyan (Wp8.1) you had no option to connect to WiFi to restore - it all had to be done via your mobile internet - ridiculous oversight in my opinion.

    Sure but if you want the OEMs to bite you need to give them more freedom. Designing phone hardware is not an easy job and if their facilities require updates and they require changes to their circuitry, they are less likely to take a chance on a platform. And this also gives OEMs a way to stand out and be different because they may do something no other OEM is doing. It's like the world of PCs, more open and allowing manufacturers to design laptops and devices that made their manufacturing process work for them.
    In regards to hardware possibly but that also means baking in support into the o/s for multiple form factors, given essentially all the Windows Phone side has been "streamlined" that will take longer to accomplish such as a HTC Touch Pro 2 running WP10. It (the touch pro 7) was killed because landscape support in Wp7 was absolutely woeful.

    Furthermore giving OEMs freedom is going to result in a lot of fragmentation:

    Attachment 111984

    Attachment 111985

    This what I meant, where is that "unified" experience they were adamant about?

    It's gone and now these phones are out there it cannot be undone so therefore the only real solution to this problem if OEMs is to use onscreen buttons for every thing be it an android phone or a windows phone. As after all the hardware requirement was relaxed so OEMs could reuse their Android Shells. Unfortunately some of them have literally have done that as you can see above.

    Sure, but if windows becomes less dependent on firmware, this allows firmware updates to be separated from OS updates. You will get the latest Windows OS and any firmware for specific hardware features controlled by the OEM can be updated separately. When was the last time you updated the bios or any firmware on your PC? I have an actual app from MSI to do the firmware updates, but there never are any. The OS will make sure all SOCs are supported and obviously firmware will already come with the device you purchase. Any changes will be enhancements. Have you ever gotten a windows update that required your PC to have a firmware update to function or increase speed?
    That is not going to happen, do you know how bloated a phone image would be if it included all the firmware for every single phone?
    Not to mention the more code you inject at bootlevel the higher risks / chances of things going wrong. Which is why firmware are kept as minimal in code as possible. It's easier to test, reduces the size of eeprom / nand whatever required and not to mention reduces costs too. If your churning out a million devices, saving a penny here and there on a single device adds to a lot of savings. But of course a line needs to be drawn on how far you can reduce cost of a phone without destroying the quality of the device.

    A desktop PC is not the same a mobile device, two different kettle of fish. One is tied to a power port (unless you use a UPS) and the other an extension of a person. Furthermore at most on a phone you probably lose quite a lot of photos, videos, notes and some work. On a desktop PC?

    You would lose pretty much everything if you screw up the bios. Your only method of recovery would be to take out the harddrive / ssd and put it in a usb enclosure or put in as a slave drive. On a laptop or notebook, it's not quite so simple as more and more laptops have become ultrathin thus the use of glue, m2 ssds and soldering ram to the motherboard has become common place. Thus putting the main storage in a non user serviceable position, the average user is not going to know how to access it. Never the less with the advent of sites like YouTube and ifixit - guides can be found for the more common models on disassembly.


    The end result is to have all apps going through the windows store. See, today if you want an app you have to go through the web searching and you may not even find the right one or even the best one. Then you search the web to see which app is best and all that. This will maximize app exposure for people who typically made w32 apps. They can put it in the store and don't have to worry someone will find them on the web. Now there's ratings and comments right in the store and updates can be issued without having to have to build an update client right into the app. It's not a short process this is why they have their 2 year plan.
    Not all Win32 apps will go through the store as some have been abandoned and no longer maintained or the company / devs who developed them have been bought or have gone bust. Plus a lot of apps would need to be "restructured" in how they install thus possibly limiting how they function or rendering them useless. Generally, a Win32 program installs in several directories being ProgramData (Not the same as program files), local locallow and possibly roaming. (The latter two are however usually barely touched, they are found under C:\Users\[your username] and are hidden).


    Alright I apologize if I sound condescending. But I'm talking about windows from a consumer perspective. You go to work you don't use groove or anything else, you should be working. Their windows is setup for the needs of the company, not the individual consumer. I know many people who use only Apple products so yes, you can leave Windows on a consumer level for your own needs. If you do not find the alternatives as good, then your essentially saying that Windows is the best still even though they are half-assing everything, so it can only get better. But you do realize what a massive undertaking this is for them. And pulling certain apps that will be replaced is in fact a good idea because you don't want new windows users to become dependent on them.
    That is exactly my point, Groove is a consumer facing first party app and a music app is that is almost everyone will use to listen to audio files (as it is pre-installedish). The rapid growth is only going to happen in the consumer space thus pulling certain functions, services or apps before they are replaced are always seen as moronic decisions. As you will simply lose a lot of users during the "dead space" period, the transitional phase is hard enough but when you forcibly inject a dead space period. The user has no option but to look at other alternative service(s) and thus once they hooked on alternative service(s) said user will most likely not come back as no one wants a repeat of scenario. This is why building brand loyalty and trust is so important in the phone sector, Microsoft's recent decisions regarding Windows Phone have destroyed that brand loyalty completely for a lot of people. Then you have the Whole Saga with RT devices. But that is another topic for another thread.

    A bridge is not built over night but can be destroyed in an instant.


    And yes it's good to give constructive feedback. It's just the tone most people set is extremely negative as if it's the end of the world. Just maintain a positive vibe. I remember Google pulled reader and stopped supporting it. At the time I was not very happy but I found some really great alternatives as a result. Now I use Readiy and i'm a happy camper. I will always use windows on my desktop as long as it is still viable for me to keep a Desktop. For the longest time I only used a laptop and typically used linux, but decided to build a gaming rig. Microsoft does need to satisfy the stock holders no doubt, but you're forgetting they need to satisfy the OEMs too. They were responsible for a lot of losses because of Windows 8 and now Google is a threat and is trying to steal the OEMs for laptops and other uses as they build up their own OS.
    It may feel like a negative vibe from some, if it is intentional then it is intentional however not everyone's first language is English therefore may not intune with the context or semantics of their tone of writing. They can not satisfy OEMs but it is the OEMs who need to adjust, let me explain when Microsoft first revealed the Surface they saw it as direct competition and as such to allay those fears Surface was only offered in limited markets but at large quantities. As a lot of OEMs had become content in churning out the same old crap, year in and year out. When Surface picked in a big way - don't forget the first gen had a massive write down. Therefore the 2nd gen had limited availability in terms of stock as demand grew they widened the stock availability and with the Pro 3 have increased to a lot more markets. As after all MS is still any other company and will always look for growth where there is traction.


    So here they are building an OS that will work across so many various platforms, building development kits and APIs to make things easier for developers, and trying to make sure the OS is also the most secure one they have built so enterprises can make the move. They can't drop their current solutions and need to make sure they are the best you can get on every platform, especially the most popular platforms.
    Yet they (MS) did, removal of placeholders thus making the sync client work the same as it does on other platforms, removal of rooms, removal a few key Lumia apps. They are on the popular platforms because that is where the money is but it doesn't make sense (in the traditional sense) whatsoever to support a nascent watch o/s out of the gate.

    Enterprise / Corporations move in paces that will make a tortoise look like the hare, a lot are still on XP and rolling out 7. Yes, some may be kicking the "Windows 10" tires but it is not all of them and that will be along awhile before every corp is running on 10.


    On top of that they have the huge insider program which is also an undertaking on its own.
    The insider program is.. well a mixture of their paid developer programs and I don't say that lightly, I'm fully aware that this is a massive undertaking.

    They are also working on apps for the future OS not for the old one.
    Yes, I'm aware but you cannot just build for the future but you need to build for the here and now as well. Windows 8 was an example of that, it was too forward thinking. Growth only occurs in the present.

    Look up project M or Midori when you get the chance or some of their MSR projects.

    There priorities make sense for them. Balmer ran the show and they fell behind.
    Some of his decisions were questionable; yes however they generated huge amounts of profits under Ballmer's tenure.

    Stock holders want vision and that's what Satya is bringing to them.
    No. They just want profits if they wanted Vision there wouldn't been calls for Microsoft to become another IBM spinning off the consumer facing divisions such as the xbox.


    Consumers will always take hits with progress of technology, it's just the way things work. Technology moves rapidly and when people get mad that their 2 year old phone won't be supported or other stuff, that's sad but it's the reality of tech. You either adapt or fall behind. Their previous music app may have been better because they put more effort and time into it but they have a lot of competition that are doing things differently and they are taking users away.
    Yet, the reorg has taken a bulk of that resource away - they could have been allocated to work on accelerating first party apps. Tech will taper off at a certain point, nothing advances or grows indefinitely. Going back to Music, they had MixRadio which they could have combined into Groove but it was deemed time consuming from a legal perspective. As I understand the licenses were none transferable (I could be wrong). Not everyone is open to technological change, hence why the term "luddites" exist. However there is a difference of not being open to change and being highly critical of said change as invariably not all change is "good". You wouldn't want a sewage plant on your doorstep would you?
    Even if it meant alleviating a problem that impacted a lot of people.


    If their other solution didn't bring users in they can't stick around with it.
    This is where telemetry or big data comes in but it is not always clean cut as the data shown. There are always external factors. No model can encompass every single environmental or foreseeable factor. If it were possible that would be both amazing and alarming at the same time. Windows Phone didn't pick up wasn't not because of the UI but of carrier incompetence, sales people pushing other platforms and Microsoft cannibalising it's sales along with some very questionable decisions.


    So giving feedback is the best thing we can do no doubt. But give feedback to Microsoft. They are the ones that need to know this stuff. (and I know you did but speaking in general).
    Of course, if people aren't highly critical of Apple, Google, Microsoft, OEMs, technology etc there is never going to be scope for improvement however having said that. Most people are only highly critical of Microsoft and not Apple or Google which is completely wrong on all levels.

    However there comes a point when you have been persistent in your feedback and it is not being listened to, votes to bring back the Zune Sync client for instance had several thousands of votes on uservoice. It was acknowledged and declined.

    https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...dia-sync-in-wp

    They should at least improve the Windows 10 client so that it does what the Zune sync client did, such as WiFi Syncing Zune Support | Wireless syncing from your Zune software | Zune Software

    So you can understand why some are extremely negative or rather skeptical.

    And nothing wrong with mentioning things you dislike in the forums but man lets keep these forums cheery.
    After all it is a public forum :) and I know what you mean.

    We get enough negativity in the media. It's like people took a personal blow because MS was part of the Apple keynote. Yes, they are a software company. Keeping good relations with competitors is actually a good thing.
    Microsoft will never shake off that stigma, I wonder what would have happened if Apple was presenting something at a major Microsoft event... lol.


    Hey I considered iphone for my next phone but since my lumia 830 is still meeting my needs I don't really need to replace it. And I am enjoying mobile 10 on it. I've given my feedback on some of the things I dislike.

    I know people keep saying that they have been waiting for years. But that was with Balmer. I'm curious what Satya pulls off.
    In actuality it was the decisions to use Windows CE as the kernel as opposed the NT Kernel that has put everything on the back foot. It wasn't Ballmer at all. If anything Ballmer was the catalyst in getting the three screens and the cloud going, not Satya. This doesn't happen over night let alone in less than 24 months. It is a culmination of projects and coding hours from the past iterations of the o/s.

    Use what ever meets your requirements :).


    And my honest opinion is that continuum will fail unless MS puts screens/keyboards in coffee shops, airports and anywhere else people like to work. It may work better in the enterprise world where people are issued phones anyways. I could care less about it because I have a better desktop when I'm at home. But that's just my opinion.
    Why must Microsoft put peripherals in coffee shops and the like?

    You do understand the warranty implications of such a method and not to mention the support costs lol.

    If anything they need entice coffee shops to do it and they will as long there is net profit from doing so. Ideally the solution would be something akin the HD-10 where a user has just to tap on a NFC puck and they are away. Said puck is either tied to the membership / loyalty card and is administered by a online scalable back end via which monetization can be made.

    Furthermore it needs to be an open standard otherwise it will never pick off.

    Lastly Windows 10 for phones bring a lot more under the hood changes, it remains to be seen if they will be available at first release. Here is one such example http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...on-mobile.aspx.

    Also have a look at the WINHEC Shenzen docs & presentations on channel9.msdn.com when you have a chance.
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 09-10-2015 at 09:03 PM. Reason: spelling, grammar, some adjustments for clarification & additions
    09-10-2015 08:01 PM
  12. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    last comments seem to have nithing to do with the thread's title


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    09-13-2015 01:16 AM
  13. Krystianpants's Avatar
    ...
    You make some good points no doubt. I should say though that Microsoft has convinced some big enterprises to go Windows 10. Of course Microsoft is part of the transition for these big enterprises. Now if it proves to increase productivity, cost savings and security, it may be that others will follow. Although the current state of Windows 10 is just not ready. At least the consumer versions which would likely be used by employees. And the other standards they are supporting are definitely cool. I know with support for WINHEC the possibilities for central appliance management are pretty cool.

    But everyone who I have talked to about continuum says "ok so I have some important work to do, I bring my phone and can't be guaranteed I have anywhere to hook it up, my laptop I can always use anywhere". Companies would never invest on their own to provide monitors/keyboards/mice because windows phone is niche. You are making a big investment for the 1 possible windows phone customer that may come in. But if MS spins this in their release. "Most popular airports, starbucks locations will all be equipped with areas to connect to your phone". Then people will be more interested. They could use the monitors to display ads while people are not connected to make some additional revenue.

    But ultimately they need to release a "pumpkin spice latte" coloured phone and all the white girls will be all over that.
    09-13-2015 11:05 AM
  14. TechFreak1's Avatar
    last comments seem to have nithing to do with the thread's title


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Yes, sorry about that thought the need to interject :).

    You make some good points no doubt. I should say though that Microsoft has convinced some big enterprises to go Windows 10. Of course Microsoft is part of the transition for these big enterprises. Now if it proves to increase productivity, cost savings and security, it may be that others will follow. Although the current state of Windows 10 is just not ready. At least the consumer versions which would likely be used by employees. And the other standards they are supporting are definitely cool. I know with support for WINHEC the possibilities for central appliance management are pretty cool.

    But everyone who I have talked to about continuum says "ok so I have some important work to do, I bring my phone and can't be guaranteed I have anywhere to hook it up, my laptop I can always use anywhere". Companies would never invest on their own to provide monitors/keyboards/mice because windows phone is niche. You are making a big investment for the 1 possible windows phone customer that may come in. But if MS spins this in their release. "Most popular airports, starbucks locations will all be equipped with areas to connect to your phone". Then people will be more interested. They could use the monitors to display ads while people are not connected to make some additional revenue.

    But ultimately they need to release a "pumpkin spice latte" coloured phone and all the white girls will be all over that.
    Just speaking from all sides :) as a former professional and a consumer and yes they did; that would be most likely due to the different branches (Long term service branch) that they offer as enterprises don't need consumer features with Cortana being the exception as she aids discoverability and promotes extensibility via CRM / App integration as after all she is powered by the web and does not reside on hard coded files local on the O/S.

    Never the less that can be disabled via IT should they want to.

    To get peripherals into various locations, they need to support more than just one segment or rather one type of phone. Hence why the PMA rollout never really took off whereas Qi on the other hand is also offered in several model of cars too. Regardless it will be a few years before we expect to chains using Qi as you need to take into account standardisation, manufacture of equipment costs, running costs and maintenance costs. The security aspect is both benign and key, let me explain people already leave their phones on tables hence easy victims of snatch & grabs. But when they are charging their phones via wireless charging, the blame "no longer" sits with the user but with the chain / location "I was charging my phone on the table when it was stolen", see where I'm going with this?

    The same principle applies to having peripherals in locations. Invariable the overall running costs may be higher due to the wear and tear due to the physical nature of the input devices and the most common would be spillage of beverages on keyboards. The solution to this would be to utilise a touch cover (affixed), or something akin to Tactus or the user brings a mouse, keyboard & phone. The self powered screens would need to be running nothing but locked down firmware (basically dumb terminals in the interests of security) or IOT with built-in miracast support.

    The dock it self would need to be something similar to Nokia Cr-200 as the built-in NFC can be utilised to authenticate (handshake) and initiate the stream and peripheral services on the phone. So a user would simply just tap "accept" and start, this dock also will need to have a retractable usb port - But this is where it gets tricky and potentially rather messy.

    Totally agree about the additional ad revenue.

    Pumpkin spice latte lol... maybe they should try some pumpkin curry instead .
    09-14-2015 10:33 PM
39 12

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