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10-07-2015 04:41 PM
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  1. Pete's Avatar
    Just to put things in perspective a fast ring in an android developement like CM gets nightly builds where they fix things each day and when a new feature gets released and messes things up you can bet that that same week every nightly would address it, but even at a pre release level Microsoft is working extremely slow
    And this is where your argument continues to fail.

    Nightly builds is an awful way to deploy software to a large amount of users and Microsoft simply will not expose any external users to that level of awfulness.

    Go read the Windows Blog that describes the testing process for builds. I'm sure you read that blog entry before you wrote your initial post, but I'd really recommend that you read it again.

    For your convenience, here's the link again - LINK
    N_LaRUE, Ed Boland, neo158 and 1 others like this.
    09-10-2015 09:08 AM
  2. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    I'm sorry you seem to say that making an OS that works across billions of devices in every language possible along with a full suit of apps that work almost everywhere (Cortana vs GoogleNow) is Easier than making an OS for 2.9% of smartphones?

    If you suddenly think that making an OS for a limited amount of hardware is harder then I guess I'm not the one losing prospective.
    09-10-2015 09:10 AM
  3. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    And this is where your argument continues to fail.

    Nightly builds is an awful way to deploy software to a large amount of users and Microsoft simply will not expose any external users to that level of awfulness.

    Go read the Windows Blog that describes the testing process for builds. I'm sure you read that blog entry before you wrote your initial post, but I'd really recommend that you read it again.

    For your convenience, here's the link again - LINK
    What are you talking about? the latest build had too many issues users didnt have basic smartphone functions
    09-10-2015 09:11 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I'm sorry you seem to say that making an OS that works across billions of devices in every language possible along with a full suit of apps that work almost everywhere (Cortana vs GoogleNow) is Easier than making an OS for 2.9% of smartphones?

    If you suddenly think that making an OS for a limited amount of hardware is harder then I guess I'm not the one losing prospective.
    They are not making an OS for smartphones... You are completely missing the point aren't you? Man... I give up.

    I can't talk to someone who doesn't understand what's going on.
    Pete, Ed Boland, neo158 and 1 others like this.
    09-10-2015 09:24 AM
  5. Pete's Avatar
    What are you talking about? the latest build had too many issues users didnt have basic smartphone functions
    And you're advocating nightly builds...?

    Like N_LaRUE, I am now ceasing contributing to this thread until there's something sensible to respond to.
    N_LaRUE, neo158 and Jazmac like this.
    09-10-2015 09:27 AM
  6. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    No problem but just to clarify A. Whats wrong with nightly builds B. There must come a time where every OS is a smartphone OS I can't understand how you could still think the future is in PCs, give it a couple of years and programs like PS and Autocad and even 3dsax will start coming to ARM specially with cloud processing becoming more and more a reality.
    09-10-2015 09:40 AM
  7. FearL0rd's Avatar
    Looks like 95-96 is repeating when Gates was the Trojan horse. Lets see
    Nabkawe5 likes this.
    09-10-2015 09:42 AM
  8. Amanda Que's Avatar
    I really wanna try win 10 but no windows phone any more
    Nabkawe5 likes this.
    09-10-2015 11:43 AM
  9. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    You really need to change platforms because I think you're losing perspective. Just remember, Android is not a comparison to what MS is doing. It is completely and utterly different. You cannot compare the two. You seem to be stuck in the idea that W10M is like Android. It isn't. It's W10 for mobiles. Meaning, it's W10... do you see the difference?

    What is slow in your eyes? Tell me, how long does it take to make an OS work on every platform? Do you have a clue at all about what it takes to do what MS is doing? Even the slightest idea?

    I'll wait for you answer. I'm sure it's nice and snarky...
    During the same time as MS managed to develop surface pro3/3, W10 and some beta builds of W10M Apple was able to develop and release a bunch of phones, ios 8/9, two generations of osx, apple watch, apple TV (v2), Siri in most of the world and a bunch of tablets. Impressive!
    Nabkawe5 likes this.
    09-10-2015 11:59 AM
  10. Asskickulater's Avatar
    During the same time as MS managed to develop surface pro3/3, W10 and some beta builds of W10M Apple was able to develop and release a bunch of phones, ios 8/9, two generations of osx, apple watch, apple TV (v2), Siri in most of the world and a bunch of tablets. Impressive!
    "Apple was able to develop and release a bunch of phones"
    No, they spent years working on the iPhone 6, and the new iPhone 6 whatever is just a slightly modified one.

    "IOS 8/9"
    yes those very small updates, one of which was basically a metro clone. totally = to the amount of work w10 has

    "apple watch"
    so.. the apple watch came out before the MS band? and there isn't a MS band 2 coming out soon?

    "apple TV"
    um... PC?

    "siri in most of the world"
    Cortana is just better.. this ones grabbing at straws more so than the others..

    "bunch of tablets"
    um.. you mean 2 ipad versions? that's faster than the sp3? which one came out first again?

    as you can se, you are clearly making stuff up and ignoring everything else Microsoft has made using only windows 10m as a comparison, while noting everything apple has made, you are so incredibly biased its painful.
    to_be_announced likes this.
    09-10-2015 12:12 PM
  11. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    "Apple was able to develop and release a bunch of phones"
    No, they spent years working on the iPhone 6, and the new iPhone 6 whatever is just a slightly modified one.
    So how do we benefit from MS habit of restarting their developments all over and over again?
    They where not sleeping for the years when apple "where working on the iphone"?
    Apple could use Nokia inventions like live picture, 3d touch, purview etch, why can not Microsoft re use this (I was imagining it would be easier for MS as they bought Nokia)?

    "IOS 8/9"
    yes those very small updates, one of which was basically a metro clone. totally = to the amount of work w10 has
    Whatever, it works (and their customers are happy). W10M does not. MS just tend to restart, restart, restart without moving forward. And, what's wrong with a metro clone? I wish W10 had been more "metro" on my surfaces (pro 1 &2).

    "apple watch"
    so.. the apple watch came out before the MS band? and there isn't a MS band 2 coming out soon?
    For my needs I prefer MS Band but I do feel that Apple watch is a massively bigger concept and that it has consumed a lot more resources and consistency to be able to do it. Don't you think so?

    "apple TV"
    um... PC?
    What. I did not get that comment. Sorry.

    "siri in most of the world"
    Cortana is just better.. this ones grabbing at straws more so than the others..
    I live at the outskirts of Europe (Sweden). I can not get Cortana here and it is the same in many many countries around the world. Cortana is today in like 10 out of 200 countries in the world?
    What I could get (if I used apple products) is Siri.
    A funny note, MS is selling/advertising W10 here with Cortana (which is not available), impressive....

    "bunch of tablets"
    um.. you mean 2 ipad versions? that's faster than the sp3? which one came out first again?
    I think we make big mistakes if we overestimate the importance of "speed". I guess that most customers buying iPad pro will find it more than fast enough for Office, mail, web etc. Don't you? Or, will we hejar a lot of complains about speed?

    as you can se, you are clearly making stuff up and ignoring everything else Microsoft has made using only windows 10m as a comparison, while noting everything apple has made, you are so incredibly biased its painful.

    I admit, I might be biased. I blame my disappointment in MS for that... I do not think I am more biased than the average reader of this board however.

    Cheers!
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    09-10-2015 12:43 PM
  12. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    During the same time as MS managed to develop surface pro3/3, W10 and some beta builds of W10M Apple was able to develop and release a bunch of phones, ios 8/9, two generations of osx, apple watch, apple TV (v2), Siri in most of the world and a bunch of tablets. Impressive!
    Sigh. Still not the same.

    Apple works with Apple. Windows works with OEMs. Big difference. Completely different thinking.

    Windows 10 will work with PC, tablet, game console and phone on multiple products.

    Apple - iOS and OSX works only on their products.

    Want to try again?
    neo158 and LeFreak like this.
    09-10-2015 01:18 PM
  13. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    CYANOGEN is NOT android. Cyanogen use the latest source codes, and compile a 'custom' beta vanilla rom. Why do they have nightlys? Because it's beta and usually unstable, with many fixes being required. They also try and accommodate a large database of devices. Search XDA and there are many threads where devs are building on a CM rom.

    Android and iOS are basically evolutions of a prior version with bug fixes and promises they usually can't keep!!!! If only people knew how much damage Apple do in the far East, and China. There was a TV programme here a few weeks ago where they investigated Apple and their suppliers. The amount of damage their suppliers do to ecosystems, to obtain tin, for Apples devices requiring solder! I dare say Samsung et al, are just a bad. The working conditions in Chinese factories, making iPhones was eye opening!

    Anyways, back on subject. Win 10 was a major upgrade for MS after Win 8 was knocked so heavily. Even the mobile version is a major overhaul. 10 isn't an evolution of prior OS's, it's designed to be future proof (whatever that means!), to seamlessly switch between desktop and mobile, to be bought into line with the PC release with apps etc

    Everyone loves to knock something with minimal information, or reading the dreaded forums / boards, reading between the lines or interpreting in their own way, and making 2+2 equal 5.
    Jazmac, bsbharath1987 and neo158 like this.
    09-10-2015 01:27 PM
  14. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    Sigh. Still not the same.
    .....

    Windows 10 will work with PC, tablet, game console and phone on multiple products.

    Apple - iOS and OSX works only on their products....

    Want to try again?
    So what is the benefit of this so impressive effort?
    I think the new iPad pro did run than office quite smooth even on this "super exotic" ios?
    I really think it was even better than any universal app that Microsoft has shown yet.
    But, maybe we just have to wait?... one year, two years, another new restart?
    09-10-2015 01:39 PM
  15. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    During the same time as MS managed to develop surface pro3/3, W10 and some beta builds of W10M Apple was able to develop and release a bunch of phones, ios 8/9, two generations of osx, apple watch, apple TV (v2), Siri in most of the world and a bunch of tablets. Impressive!
    Mmmm...seems like that is re-inventing the wheel, a Samsung trick. A bunch of phones? It won't be long before they are all paper weights. Mind you, it must have taken ages to get a SOC to operate in a banana lol.

    Smart watches are, to me, a bit of a misnomer. Yet another accessory that you have to ask, do I really need one?? For activity purposes, yes they are helpful. The Apple watch??? If you walk down the road in certain areas, showing it off, you aren't coming out with it! You might as well wander along in the worst part of town with a neon sign over your head and pointing at it. Would you do it with a Rolex or Brietling, maybe your Hublot? Do you really need to wave your watch around when cortana can tell you who is calling, answer for you etc.

    A bunch of tablets? Again, re-inventing the wheel, and differences between them, in the real world, are probably unnoticeable for the fashionistas who have to have bragging rights, for their shallow existences.

    I'll stick to what a phone is for. Calls, email, text and running my business without the fear of being mugged by a fare for my Crapple phone /tablet.
    09-10-2015 01:47 PM
  16. gwinegarden's Avatar
    During the same time as MS managed to develop surface pro3/3, W10 and some beta builds of W10M Apple was able to develop and release a bunch of phones, ios 8/9, two generations of osx, apple watch, apple TV (v2), Siri in most of the world and a bunch of tablets. Impressive!
    Can't wait for you to get that iPhone so you will go away.
    Ian_Superfly likes this.
    09-10-2015 02:41 PM
  17. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    Can't wait for you to get that iPhone so you will go away.
    Truth hurts. ;-)

    And hopefully you will have to wait less time for that compared to what you will have to wait for a good W10M with a decent camera app, L950 and W10 with good universal apps ;-)
    Last edited by Ian_Superfly; 09-10-2015 at 04:14 PM.
    seb_r likes this.
    09-10-2015 02:49 PM
  18. nmercy's Avatar
    The main concern is that I think people are having but not they're not quite sure how to phrase it is Microsoft's philosophy has switched from "Windows will bring people to Microsoft products" to "Microsoft's services will bring people to Microsoft products" to "Microsoft services will bring people to Microsoft." It's just a minor wording difference but it has a huge impact in how the company is run.

    Under "Windows will bring people to Microsoft products", the leadership felt they could throw the Windows name on pretty much anything and it would sell.

    When they went to "Microsoft Services will bring people to Microsoft products", we saw a strong push of services like OneDrive and how easy everything was when you were in the ecosystem. Microsoft products were still strongly pushed and a lot of times had services that were exclusive to them. Unfortunately I don't think they gave enough time to this philosophy for it to play out and moved quickly on.

    Currently they are on "Microsoft Services will bring people to Microsoft". Under this philosophy Microsoft plans to capitalize on selling services like OneDrive, Outlook, Xbox Live, Office, etc... to the consumer. This means they will put the service on anything they can to get people to try and use it and buy into their ecosystem this way. Ironically I think the only reason that this appears to be successful is because they still have the remnants of "Windows will bring people to Microsoft products." Once those remnants move on (around the time that Windows 10 is no longer "free") will be the true test of this philosophy.

    Now I am a little surprised that it is taking so long for Windows 10 Mobile on phones to be in a finished state since we've been told that the OS base is the same regardless of what it runs on and Universal Apps are meant to scale from phones to tablets to PCs to Holo Lens. This means that the mobile team should have just had to worry about phone specific features, like the ability to dial, text message, etc... but they could also be running into a lot more of this doesn't run right on ARM processors than they were supposed to.
    Ian_Superfly and Nabkawe5 like this.
    09-10-2015 04:10 PM
  19. gwinegarden's Avatar
    Truth hurts. ;-)

    And hopefully you will have to wait less time for that compared to what you will have to wait for a good W10M with a decent camera app, L950 and W10 with good universal apps ;-)
    You see, I, like many, don't want or need most of the "new technology". Why do I need a finger print reader or, for that matter, an iris scanner, or a 1000 Megapixel camera, or 3D touch, ad nauseam? I worked in technology for over 45 years, I don't buy it just to have it. I'll, probably, be still using my 920 when you are over on the Apple forums saying you are going Android.
    09-10-2015 04:44 PM
  20. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    So you're just inventing this line because there's been no mobile builds for a couple of weeks?
    It doesn't really matter to you that Windows 10 Mobile has had more updates and improvements released more quickly than any other version of Windows Phone before it?
    It really doesn't matter to you that we've had a constant stream of updates to various parts of Windows 10 Mobile (for example, Email & Calendar got updated for me this morning)?
    It really doesn't matter to you that Microsoft is a services company as well as software and products? When would you expect to see a Google or Apple executive stand on a Microsoft stage and announce something awesome for Microsoft users?
    But well done on getting this thread in the "Trending Now" list.
    I'll go through your points one by one.
    A. I thought it was called fast because it was supposed to be fast but I guess it just "Seemed Faster TM :D :D :D )

    B. Well the insider program got released on February 12, 2015, and here we are 7 months later with the OS not even nearing completion, continuum can't be seen because it needs special hardware, so basically Windows Mobile 10 brought nothing to the table to this day not even a single innovative feature! its just another restart that we have to be patience about.
    (I still can't believe that if I entered the wrong phone number I STILL have to delete the whole number to correct my mistake!!! REALLY?)

    C. I don't care about app updates because 99% of them are bug fixes, tell me about a single new feature added to those apps you mentioned, I bet not even Microsoft mentioned what they updated

    D. Clearly you can care about Microsoft and there's nothing wrong with that, but I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MICROSOFT, our relationship is not mutual UNCONDITIONAL love, it's about one company selling users products at premium prices and then ship them with Beta software, that's all what WPX and WM10 ever was BETA software, so if Microsoft decided suddenly that it doesn't know how to "software and products" and decided to shift their focus into services, THAT IS OKAY but they would deserve all the heat they get for it and that is ALSO OKAY.

    E. Really? I a sole user with almost non existent following managed to make something trend? Do I get money or something if I trended an article? can't it be that some people really agree with what I said? I haven't made a single argument that wasn't factual and I even recommended that people should buy the hardware and the software just LATER, when both the pricing and the software is rightfully polished! That would certainly save you from making excuses all day for Microsoft's incompetence in bringing unfinished software on board a premium device.
    Bloobed likes this.
    09-10-2015 06:48 PM
  21. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    Trending doesn't result in payment :(

    We could have a whip round for a basic Huawei Android for you though

    Bored now. Can we lock this one???
    09-10-2015 07:54 PM
  22. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    CYANOGEN is NOT android. Cyanogen use the latest source codes, and compile a 'custom' beta vanilla rom. Why do they have nightlys? Because it's beta and usually unstable, with many fixes being required. They also try and accommodate a large database of devices. Search XDA and there are many threads where devs are building on a CM rom.
    They still have a bigger user base than WP, they do in fact add features all the time to new and old devices, also I lived on CM nightlies for 3 months and even their worst release wasn't as bad as a stable WP release.

    Android and iOS are basically evolutions of a prior version with bug fixes and promises they usually can't keep!!!!
    Are you using the word "evolution" as a bad thing? REALLY? I would love nothing more than Microsoft to give me an evolution of a prior version of WP, you understand that the reason we're angry at Microsoft is that this is the third major restart WP7/WP8/WM10 in recent times, please give me an evolved WP8.1 with few extra features here and there and I will be a happy guy.
    If only people knew how much damage Apple do in the far East, and China. There was a TV programme here a few weeks ago where they investigated Apple and their suppliers. The amount of damage their suppliers do to ecosystems, to obtain tin, for Apples devices requiring solder! I dare say Samsung et al, are just a bad. The working conditions in Chinese factories, making iPhones was eye opening!
    I'm sure if Microsoft managed to sell billions of devices they'll travel to far away galaxies, import resources and enslave an alien race to make their phones, where do you think Microsoft makes their phones now?

    Anyways, back on subject. Win 10 was a major upgrade for MS after Win 8 was knocked so heavily. Even the mobile version is a major overhaul. 10 isn't an evolution of prior OS's, it's designed to be future proof (whatever that means!), to seamlessly switch between desktop and mobile, to be bought into line with the PC release with apps etc
    Oh if only I can find my old posts about a single experience across all screens 2012 was so long ago. :)


    Everyone loves to knock something with minimal information, or reading the dreaded forums / boards, reading between the lines or interpreting in their own way, and making 2+2 equal 5.
    :)
    09-10-2015 08:09 PM
  23. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    Trending doesn't result in payment :(

    We could have a whip round for a basic Huawei Android for you though

    Bored now. Can we lock this one???
    The Huawei Mate S is an excellent looking phone with impressive feature I'd love to have it please :)
    09-10-2015 08:12 PM
  24. Devilreaper's Avatar
    Ms needs profits. And they can't get it with wp right now so they're showcasing their main products 'Software'. I agree wp is like a child to ms. But look at google. Are they spending all their resources on chrome os? Any sensible adult won't look for instant growth but will focus on long term development for their child. So chill wp will soon become a success as no parent will abandon their child. ( unless its adopted. Looking at you android.)
    Mad Cabbie likes this.
    09-10-2015 09:13 PM
  25. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Look, there has been two major re-orgs in the space of a year granted it doesn't excuse a few decisions but obviously it will slow down progress. The massive cut in the Windows Phone side was ill timed in my opinion and that will result in even slower progress not to mention features being cut + packaged into on going updates.

    A person can only code for so many hours, they aren't machines you know.
    Ian_Superfly likes this.
    09-10-2015 09:14 PM
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