10-07-2015 04:41 PM
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  1. Dillan K's Avatar
    Microsoft's previous strategy of trying to keep its premiere apps exclusive to their own WP platform wasn't making money for them. What do you expect them to do? They're making great software; they can compete very well in the Android and IOS markets. The obvious step they needed to take was to release their apps for Android and IOS. I think they did the right thing. I think they did the rational thing.
    09-25-2015 02:21 PM
  2. addicusbrown's Avatar
    1. I hate MS not having exclusive apps because I love having certain things for the family's Windows products.
    2. That said, I understand and actually agree with why they are putting the products on Apple and Google products. MS is a services company first and those two companies have the market share. Put your products on their products, make money and stay viable so you can work on your own hardware. Plus, MS is making tons of money off Android so keeping that product alive and selling is actually filling their cofers.
    2. I'm not disappointed in WP8.1 or Windows 8.1 and have heard rave reviews from our IT people on W10 and they are pure Apple people. MS is making high quality products that usually only get hated on by 3 distinct groups. Die hard supporters of other platforms who hate just to hate, the paid off media sources who blindly sheep 🐑 love ❤ every Google/Apple move, and MS owners trying to keep up with Joneses instead of walking the steady path that works. Everytime I use an Iphone I throw up a little thinking of how *** backwards they have done everything, made it the norm and charge triple the amount for fluff.
    3. My 1520 is by far the best phone in my company and I'm comparing it with the Iphone 6s, Notes and Galaxies. I put it in someone's hand and they can use it without instruction, it's beautiful and durable. Only thing missing is the Qi charging because ATT is a bunch of c***s. I really miss that feature. Our complete sales force was given Ipads and no one uses them anymore. Their Iphones lack the ability to keep them productive, but my 3% market share WP1520 gets it done!
    4. My 12 year old has a Lumia 535. Same size as the regular Iphone. All her friends love it better than the Iphones their parents bought them for hundreds of dollars and she got it herself for less than $75. We bought her a HP 8 Stream for $79 to replace her $99 Kindle and it kills the $250+ Ipads her friends have and it gets a free W10 upgrade. QUALITY PRODUCTS.
    P Dot likes this.
    09-26-2015 10:39 AM
  3. Varun Rajan's Avatar
    Microsoft's previous strategy of trying to keep its premiere apps exclusive to their own WP platform wasn't making money for them. What do you expect them to do? They're making great software; they can compete very well in the Android and IOS markets. The obvious step they needed to take was to release their apps for Android and IOS. I think they did the right thing. I think they did the rational thing.
    Well that's concerning right? If microsoft is to choose between their own loyal customers and money they would go for money and release a far better version of their apps in other platforms?? I dont see that many microsoft apps in WM10 that i have been used to with WP8. Yet they spend their effort in bettering their app in other ecosystem, find time to address the concerns of IOS users about their office apps.
    09-26-2015 11:30 PM
  4. colinkiama's Avatar
    Well that's concerning right? If microsoft is to choose between their own loyal customers and money they would go for money and release a far better version of their apps in other platforms?? I dont see that many microsoft apps in WM10 that i have been used to with WP8. Yet they spend their effort in bettering their app in other ecosystem, find time to address the concerns of IOS users about their office apps.

    I don't want to sound like a mindless fan but wait for Windows 10 mobile. You really should wait. The New office apps have so much functionality now compared to before.
    Varun Rajan likes this.
    09-27-2015 12:09 AM
  5. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Microsoft's previous strategy of trying to keep its premiere apps exclusive to their own WP platform wasn't making money for them. What do you expect them to do? They're making great software; they can compete very well in the Android and IOS markets. The obvious step they needed to take was to release their apps for Android and IOS. I think they did the right thing. I think they did the rational thing.
    That's the equivalent of me having kids and my own family but I am doing more for another family and not the kids I actually helped make.

    The rational thing was to first not release a half baked product. Or if you're going to releases half baked product at least quickly fix the issues. There is no reason the updates like 7.5, 8.1 and now 10 have taken so long for a company like Microsoft when their competitors and even blackberry are doing just fine with releasing full products and accurately updating them.

    The next rational thing is I would jot release better versions of said apps on competing platforms and then insult our user base by expecting them to hold on and wait for scraps or old news products to hit windows phone as new products.

    You don't forget the people who have supported you since day 1 just to get popular from those who crap on you. Sure the android users are using the apps. That's great but you still have bot solved the windows phone problem in five years and now you've alienated your userbase even more.
    09-27-2015 12:15 AM
  6. colinkiama's Avatar
    That's the equivalent of me having kids and my own family but I am doing more for another family and not the kids I actually helped make.

    The rational thing was to first not release a half baked product. Or if you're going to releases half baked product at least quickly fix the issues. There is no reason the updates like 7.5, 8.1 and now 10 have taken so long for a company like Microsoft when their competitors and even blackberry are doing just fine with releasing full products and accurately updating them.

    The next rational thing is I would jot release better versions of said apps on competing platforms and then insult our user base by expecting them to hold on and wait for scraps or old news products to hit windows phone as new products.

    You don't forget the people who have supported you since day 1 just to get popular from those who crap on you. Sure the android users are using the apps. That's great but you still have bot solved the windows phone problem in five years and now you've alienated your userbase even more.

    It sounds like Microsoft should just kill WP but at the same time, Windows 10 Mobile has so much potential. What would you do if you were in charge?
    09-27-2015 12:33 AM
  7. seb_r's Avatar
    If MS is only after the money they would have dropped WP already long ago. Bringing their formerly exclusive apps to other more popular platforms is just rational thing for a company that need to make $$$ - no matter if WP fanboys now whining.
    Of course they will not kill W10M. That would question the whole universal apps idea. And as "Microsoft" they simply "have to be" in the mobile devices market as well - for prestigious reasons.
    but the title of this topic is very true. Who hopes for a finished product will be disappointed. You can judge by the progress of the mobile version compared to the (more profitable) desktop version. Also not even a release date published, immature and buggy software with a inconsistent userinterface (hamburger menu). And I see no evidence this drama would end soon. If you decide to go for it then you will have to deal with the half baked OS likely forever.
    09-27-2015 04:20 AM
  8. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    It sounds like Microsoft should just kill WP but at the same time, Windows 10 Mobile has so much potential. What would you do if you were in charge?
    Honestly Microsoft seems to be doing two things at once

    1. Not supporting Windows Phone enough(the last 5 years shows this) and putting far more effort in Android and IOS and literally nowhere near the same level for their own OS

    2. Trying to push WIndows phone and Windows 10.

    Personally if they are going to try and push Android/IOS as they have...you may as well just create an android phone. I almost wish they would because this half-in, half out mentality is an insult.

    If I were in charge
    1. I'd drop all OEMs who I can tell are not worth much. Or let them do whatever but stop caring about angering them. If rumors are true that Microsoft sort of handicapped lumias to give OEMs a chance that is the stupidest thing I've heard from a company. Why on earth would you limit/handicap your best selling product in the HOPES that the OEMs(who literally did nothing Pre-nokia or post nokia) will make a difference...they won't. And the choice has never been an issue.

    2. Price the phones competitively instead of extravagantly. If Motorola and these Asian OEMs can release hardware at lowcost price with premium features then so can you. Especially when you make the software.

    3. Release unlocked versions of the phones...so people who want to bypass carriers...can.

    4. I'd enter into some type of agreement with the most sought after developers. given the money Microsoft has wasted in the years(Kin for example and the barnes and noble deal) i'd be working to offer cash in exchange for an agreement of at least supporting the app for a year or two AT LEAST. Kik, Snapchat and Instagram being 3.

    5. I'd reevaluate my current team of employees and I'd personally change the dynamics of my company. It's obvious that Microsoft is changing...but not fast enough and they are still in that old school mentality.

    The CEO change was needed but you need to get people who truly seem to live and love your product daily. Not people who have no problem flaunting they are using competitor products.

    6. Work on releasing SOLID products instead of half-baked products. Microsoft probably COULD have figured a way to make WP 8 work on existing WP7 devices but they just didn't.

    If you knew in 2 years time you were going to essentially restart the process in 2014 with Windows 10, then doesn't that mean you also knew probably that prior to WIndows Phone 8...these gaps are really not easily excused.

    7. If you cant build a solid product(Xbox music/Groove music) buy it...It's obvious Microsoft struggles with Music and Video. So buy it...it's not like they have issues buying things.

    8. Stop releasing the same exact hardware with small variations and choose a set stream lined family of products like apple does. The android method does nothing but confuses users(Pros and newbies...having to explain the difference between a 530, 532, 535, 540 is annoying).

    9. More importantly, instead of creating NEW low end phones...continue selling current old phones. Instead of creating so many models, remember you still have good products.

    A Lumia 920/925 could have easily became the new midrange instead of discontinuing it so soon.

    Why do we need a Lumia 550 when we already have a Lumia 640.
    The Lumia 1520 along with the Icon can then become the new 'mid rnage' or at least premium midrange.

    Apple does this already with their older products. So does Samsung. HTC. LG. You can still buy their older models. You cant even buy a 1520 now.

    10. Last but not least...Market your product.....and show faith that you believe in it. Microsoft shows little faith into Windows phone...they showed little faith into Metro instead of improving it, they butchered it into a modern windows 7(essentially regressing) for Windows 10.

    Stand by your ideas and beliefs instead of constantly trying to change and conform if you want people to see you as a leader and not a me too.

    Instead, this 'leader' in the desktop is essentially following and instead of differentiating to make an identity for themselves in mobile(and improving their strengths they already have), they decide to conform which doesn't give faith. It just says "Hey I want to fit in."
    09-27-2015 05:32 PM
  9. CalibreX's Avatar
    Just to clear that out :

    Porting a System to a another Architecture takes Time, then it gets even harder if you have like 10 or more Devices with slightly different Hardware (All Lumias are not the same from the Hardware-Layer seen).

    Look into direction Android : They are millions of different Devices...and how long it takes that a Update hits them. Most Hardware-Venders need 6+ Months up to a Year to port and roll out Updates. Even small ones.


    I would say : Just wait what MS has in the Pockets, and i dont think they will drop the Mobile Market, otherwise they would not put Money into new Devices (950). And we dont know how stable the Internal Builds are.
    09-28-2015 02:48 AM
  10. Ivan05il's Avatar
    As for running an OS on a wide variety of hardware, it's what drivers are for. Don't look at Android, look at Windows. You define an interface with a set of functions that every driver of that kind has to implement and isolate a hardware dependent code inside of a driver. If a driver is well written an OS can use it without knowing how to use that hardware in a detail, that part is delegated to the driver. If the driver is not well written an OS will show you its BSOD. That's why a certification of drivers etc. I do not know if they ignore this concept in mobile operating systems. If yes, they get what they deserve.

    As for Android, they have a special sort of problems. Alphabet from the beginning allowed everybody and their dog stick their nose into an OS source code, it's that celebrated open sourceness of their OS. What it means if the bug is found, Alphabet can fix it in their code and rollout for their Nexus devices as they please, even immediately. But everybody else who modified the OS source code has to merge that bug correction into their own source code, recompile and rollout for their own devices. But some OEMs have no resources or will to do that, those devices are history for them. Buy a new device with a new OS where the bug will be fixed is what they want from you. Alphabet sees this is not a solution if you have hundreds of millions of devices out there running your OS and tries to isolate parts of the OS into "black boxes" with a defined interface that can be swapped via Google Play. They are effectively removing these components from the open source pool. I think this is how it should have been from the beginning. Define parts that OEMs can tinker with and everything else is off limits.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    09-28-2015 03:13 AM
  11. NOLATechy's Avatar
    Absolutely correct. Microsoft has already stated that the new Office 2016 apps for iOS iPads will NOT be free. iOS iPad/iPad Pro users will be required to maintain a "subscription" for the service.
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    09-29-2015 11:28 AM
  12. rex.reyesiii's Avatar
    • Most of Microsoft programmers are busy creating Windows 10 for Xbox.
    YEP. Sorry guys...

    Am enjoying WM10 TP on my L535 though.

    Come to think of it, the only app that I use here is the messaging app and groove music.
    09-29-2015 07:34 PM
  13. colinkiama's Avatar
    I'm on the latest windows 10 mobile build. After a hard reset, it's incredibly fast on my 735. Most apps are actually resuming instantly. Apps have more functionality.

    Why is everyone complaining here then?
    10-04-2015 02:27 AM
  14. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    I have a Lumia 525 with dual core SD S4 and 1GB RAM on latest build. And I've to say it is a step backwards in terms of performance from previous build. App switching loading and resuming still takes time. There are app crashes. Edge takes time to load pages and most loaded pages are unresponsive to interact with. I'm surprised how it is possible. Lock screen loading and notification center is still slow. Not all things are bad though. Apps install and uninstall in store are actually taking place(bug free finally!) and faster. Feedback app is faster. Outlook and Photos apps have reasonably improved. Blinking quick actions are fixed. Overall I might say they have to fix stability and performance on old generation dual core SoCs which might be asking them a lot at this point. But seeing as though the only lumias that will be immediately upgraded are the newer quad core ones, I think Microsoft maybe able to fix performance issues on older phones as well before pushing out updates for them. In time. Have some faith. We will get there.
    P.S and yes my build was a clean install with hard reset and these performance issues are pertaining to core apps.
    10-05-2015 03:02 AM
  15. Teo Bartulovic's Avatar
    Outlook and Photos apps have reasonably improved.
    This is thanks to the fact that those are OS independent apps that receives updates and improvements frequently and getting better with every single update, Photos app is still far from perfect, it fails to interact with most of the 3rd party apps, it is sometimes annoying slow in loading new content, it still lacks favorites folder with no sign that they are planning to add something similar but from other hand Outlooks is awesome app especially after the recent addition of dark theme support it is pleasure to touch and to look at ant it works just fine my L930 with 6 different accounts enabled, not having single issue with it. OK it lacks unified inbox but that's something I'm not using anyway, I prefer all of those accounts to be separated and my notifications center acts as the unified inbox actually :)
    10-05-2015 03:39 AM
  16. Ivan05il's Avatar
    I had my accounts split into private and work and I miss that. I hope they'll bring it back. At the moment they ignored a lot of things that go beyond a basic functionality.
    10-05-2015 08:07 AM
  17. jcrider's Avatar
    thanks
    10-05-2015 10:38 AM
  18. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    10. Last but not least...Market your product.....and show faith that you believe in it. Microsoft shows little faith into Windows phone...they showed little faith into Metro instead of improving it, they butchered it into a modern windows 7(essentially regressing) for Windows 10.

    Stand by your ideas and beliefs instead of constantly trying to change and conform if you want people to see you as a leader and not a me too.

    Instead, this 'leader' in the desktop is essentially following and instead of differentiating to make an identity for themselves in mobile(and improving their strengths they already have), they decide to conform which doesn't give faith. It just says "Hey I want to fit in."
    Thank you for this. MS can hype up their products all they want but from their actions it's just talk and even they don't believe in it. The mangling of their own unique UI for the Frankenstein mess we see in W10 has been very sad and disheartening.
    10-05-2015 09:00 PM
  19. sd4f's Avatar
    I think the writing is on the wall for WP/WM. Even changing the name from phone to mobile, they're just losing any continuity.

    I say this as a windows phone user, I bought the L920 as early as I could, and still am really happy with it. It's a brilliant phone, but newer releases have been quite lacking, improving the OS has been monumentally slow, and I think now, the differentiating features of WP/WM have gradually been dropped, to the point where there's no real reason to continue with it.

    Now, I see absolutely no reason to 'upgrade' to a L950/XL. I bought a replacement battery for my L920 instead. WP8 was a really good OS, one which definitely had potential. 8.1 kind of squandered the opportunity, and I think WM10 now, is just a fork which has lost that original vision.

    When my L920 well and truly dies, I think i'll look elsewhere. I wanted WP to succeed, and when I started with the platform, I thought it had plenty of potential, but I think the pivotal moment for me is WM10. This is sort of the point of no return, where the phones are just becoming quite uninteresting, overloaded with spec sheet hardware (as in stuff which makes it look good on a spec sheet and nothing else), and the OS is losing a lot of the style it had, in order to homogenise it with the other platforms (i.e. hamburger menus and replacing capacitive buttons with on screen ones). It just seems to me like it's becoming an orphan.
    Kram Sacul and Tien-Lin Chang like this.
    10-05-2015 09:47 PM
  20. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    1. I'd drop all OEMs who I can tell are not worth much. Or let them do whatever but stop caring about angering them. If rumors are true that Microsoft sort of handicapped lumias to give OEMs a chance that is the stupidest thing I've heard from a company. Why on earth would you limit/handicap your best selling product in the HOPES that the OEMs(who literally did nothing Pre-nokia or post nokia) will make a difference...they won't. And the choice has never been an issue.

    The CEO change was needed but you need to get people who truly seem to live and love your product daily. Not people who have no problem flaunting they are using competitor products.

    6. Work on releasing SOLID products instead of half-baked products. Microsoft probably COULD have figured a way to make WP 8 work on existing WP7 devices but they just didn't.

    If you knew in 2 years time you were going to essentially restart the process in 2014 with Windows 10, then doesn't that mean you also knew probably that prior to WIndows Phone 8...these gaps are really not easily excused.

    8. Stop releasing the same exact hardware with small variations and choose a set stream lined family of products like apple does. The android method does nothing but confuses users(Pros and newbies...having to explain the difference between a 530, 532, 535, 540 is annoying).

    9. More importantly, instead of creating NEW low end phones...continue selling current old phones. Instead of creating so many models, remember you still have good products.

    A Lumia 920/925 could have easily became the new midrange instead of discontinuing it so soon.

    Why do we need a Lumia 550 when we already have a Lumia 640.
    The Lumia 1520 along with the Icon can then become the new 'mid rnage' or at least premium midrange.

    Apple does this already with their older products. So does Samsung. HTC. LG. You can still buy their older models. You cant even buy a 1520 now.

    10. Last but not least...Market your product.....and show faith that you believe in it. Microsoft shows little faith into Windows phone...they showed little faith into Metro instead of improving it, they butchered it into a modern windows 7(essentially regressing) for Windows 10.

    Stand by your ideas and beliefs instead of constantly trying to change and conform if you want people to see you as a leader and not a me too.

    Instead, this 'leader' in the desktop is essentially following and instead of differentiating to make an identity for themselves in mobile(and improving their strengths they already have), they decide to conform which doesn't give faith. It just says "Hey I want to fit in."
    Dude you've made very nice points about the situation MSFT created and stuck-in now. Here's some from my observation :

    1. MSFT lacks long-term plan on their mobile project
    At first they say WP7 is a novel, light-weight mobile-OS and they limit the SPEC of the products which make them couldn't last long/update with the trend. Then they said WP8 is what they really want to do, WP7 is just a timely replacement for the WM6.5(what an insult to WP7 buyers). Now they say W10M is really the form they dream, WP8 era is just another spacer for the time-being (yeah I know most of them can be updated to W10M). Which brings me two questions :
    1-1 : If MSFT knows the W10M is the final way to go, how come in the five year time WP7/8 had earn for it still not ready? With such a long deveopment period and release date by tomorrow why the preview build still just like a preview? This is unbelievably slow pace in OS development and very poor plan for the market. Don't tell me being such a big company you have only one team working on WP and focus on only one project at one time - that's imresponsible, and if you guys do have different teams working on this still like this - yes you guys working without proper plan.
    1-2 : poor product-line plan, with the clear view that W10M will arrive in 2015 with much more functionality and API support which clearly need new and more powerful hardwares. How come in the 2014 they still "renew" the product line with very little hardware improvement? S400 all the way to the top L830 and even some S200, sub smartwatch level SoC in your product line and MSFT gave a 18-month maintain promise means they gonna drag all there devices into W10M era. How you gonna keep good UX/avoid fragmentation of UX and expend the ability of the OS at the same time? And stop make carrier adapted variant, that only increase stock loading. iPhone make very few variant to cover all carriers/bands/systems and that's the best thing MSFT can learn from apple, puls with that ability to support every carrier you can easily sell contract-free phones to people and not being restricted by carriers.

    And no I don't think MSFT cared OEM otherwise they wouldn't bother to furfill the lumia line from 4xx to 9xx - that's six product lines. So I really believe that there's no real long-term plan in MSFT and this is no good for almost everyone.

    However I don't agreed that you mention just keep the 920/925 to low-end instead of make new phones, they are the old flagship using old parts and it's just hard to maintain the source from supplier and they will lose in almost every aspect to new low-end phones (faster RAM/NAND, more power-saving SoC, less heat, more refined but cheapper cameras, newer API supported GPU...) and that's why the old snapdragon S4 plus out-speced the 1.2Ghz S400 in raw peformance but in real life the S400 phones runs slightly faster than those old S4 plus flagships

    2. MSFT's marketing won't work, I just back from maldive for my honeymoon trip. More than 90% of the guys enjoying vacation there are holding some i devices - it looks like a passport for traveler almost lol. And during the trip there's WP ads in the TV all day long, they even showed up in some car CM. The WP banner also hanging in the local mobile shops, but every local prople I saw is either using old NOKIA feature phones or some samsung android entry phone. The WP ads seems just not knock-in, sad to see that.
    10-05-2015 11:08 PM
  21. colinkiama's Avatar
    After the W10 event, all these points made are now irrelevant. This thread will now close shortly...
    SPS828 and Tien-Lin Chang like this.
    10-06-2015 12:38 PM
  22. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    After the W10 event, all these points made are now irrelevant. This thread will now close shortly...
    Irrelevant how? Did MS unveil a time machine today so that they can go back and fix all their dumb decisions?
    10-06-2015 05:10 PM
  23. colinkiama's Avatar
    Irrelevant how? Did MS unveil a time machine today so that they can go back and fix all their dumb decisions?

    The whole point of the thread was about Microsoft paying full attention to windows 10 mobile. The present and future is where it's at. Microsoft has silenced a lot of the critics.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    10-06-2015 05:27 PM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Microsoft has silenced a lot of the critics.
    We should be so lucky.
    10-06-2015 05:35 PM
  25. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    The whole point of the thread was about Microsoft paying full attention to windows 10 mobile. The present and future is where it's at. Microsoft has silenced a lot of the critics.
    Right... So what's the future then? Is the 950 and 950XL going to launch on all carriers?
    10-06-2015 05:36 PM
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