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09-28-2015 07:24 AM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    Ha ha....who's the one taking it personally now. My comments have been about the general prevalence of miserabilism exhibited by some here. Nothing wrong with complaining at all. I do it all the time.
    I'm not taking it personally. I'm just surprised at how hard it is to get the point across, which for some reason you've yet refused to even acknowledge. Here's another way of looking at it:

    Some people really are trolls, yet our rules disallow members of accusing each other of such. Why? Most often the accusation itself is just plain wrong. Even in those rare cases when it is well deserved, it still achieves absolutely nothing. It just results in even more mud-slinging and infighting. We also consider it backseat moderating. For all of those reasons, but primarily because it just leads to a terrible atmosphere that nobody enjoys, we treat it as an infractionable offence.

    Telling someone to leave or labeling them a whiner shares all those same unfortunate qualities. While I'd consider those comparatively mild "insults", they are still just that, as they imply that the person's concerns are unimportant or not be taken seriously. They lead to all the same problems that troll-slinging does, just not on the same scale.

    There is constructive criticism, then there is the recreational moaning.
    The "just leave", "difficulties with change" and "whiner" insults are slung around all the time. The accusers are wrong most of the time however. In the overwhelming majority of cases, it's just demonstrating to the world the accuser's inability to understand the other person's concern/criticisms/perspective. One person's inability to understand doesn't mean the other person is engaged in recreational moaning however!

    Most importantly, even if you are 100% correct, it's still not up to you to ask a person to leave or label them a whiner. If you think the member is really just moaning for the sake of it, and you feel strongly enough about it, then you should report the post! If it's not worth reporting, than it's not worth slinging those insults over it either. Doing so regardless is no better than recreational moaning. It's the exact same thing. It helps nobody. It improves nothing. It just further pulls everybody down.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-27-2015 at 07:11 AM. Reason: spelling
    09-25-2015 05:14 AM
  2. seb_r's Avatar
    Why is it such a bad thing for people to discuss what they dislike about the Platform, whether they own a phone with the OS or not? Android forum is full of negative feedback about the OS and its taken in strides, then you come to the Windows Forum and i see a lot of "why is everyone picking on us??".
    SO TRUE! I am with one leg in the android world and people there are much more realistic and not get emotional. While especially here in the WP world it is a shame if somebody is "attacking our devices". The undertone of many WP "enthusiasts" here is: if you happy and have nothing to complain stay and praise everything, if you have critics then go away.
    Much like others i invested a lot of $$$ in Microsoft products (owned a Samsung Focus for WP7, Lumia 920/1020...own a SP2) and ya thats my fault.
    Same here: Lumia 800, Surface RT and Surface 2. All practically abandoned by MS already and only left with some feature update to pretend some support.
    I moved to Android for my mobile and people on this forum are super defensive (even some of the writers for the site get their panties in a twist over peoples comments about WP, its pretty hilarious).
    Exactly what I noticed here as well. There is no neutrality that is supposed to be in seroius journalism. From the users I not expect this but at least from the authors. But it's simply: praise whatever MS does.
    the forum is for discussion, that includes negative and positive
    +1
    So whats the problem in criticizing . The bad is bad wrong is wrong . We have to admit windows is miles behind android if not light years. I paid my money so I have every right to criticize.
    +1
    How many more excuses does MS want ? And how many more chances we can give them ? We love Ms we are tolerating .
    To a certain point we all tolerate this by buying a WP. But for more and more people MS has hit the limit.
    That beta update beta update beta update blah is being thrown every time anybody says anything negative about W10 .
    I agree. When there is some negative words then this is the standard excuse. While if there is some positive feedback about something it is taken like it's the final product already.
    This is the final lap . After few days WinMO10 should be RTM or whatever. Still if a build needs its beta status to hide its negatives its a grave problem.
    I would not even say the current build has beta status. It is more in between alpha and beta.
    So what will we next say ? Ours is TH1 lets wait for Threshold 2 ? Like this TH n ? The buck stops here.
    No need to worry on this, as long as Gabe Aul is allowed to use twitter we will eb presented with an excuse. Or if there is too much headwind just - silence.

    After all please keep in mind: it is just a phone and it's OS.
    daniel cooper2 and Sam_93 like this.
    09-27-2015 01:49 PM
  3. daniel cooper2's Avatar
    SO TRUE! I am with one leg in the android world and people there are much more realistic and not get emotional. While especially here in the WP world it is a shame if somebody is "attacking our devices". The undertone of many WP "enthusiasts" here is: if you happy and have nothing to complain stay and praise everything, if you have critics then go away.

    Same here: Lumia 800, Surface RT and Surface 2. All practically abandoned by MS already and only left with some feature update to pretend some support.

    Exactly what I noticed here as well. There is no neutrality that is supposed to be in seroius journalism. From the users I not expect this but at least from the authors. But it's simply: praise whatever MS does.

    +1

    +1

    To a certain point we all tolerate this by buying a WP. But for more and more people MS has hit the limit.

    I agree. When there is some negative words then this is the standard excuse. While if there is some positive feedback about something it is taken like it's the final product already.

    I would not even say the current build has beta status. It is more in between alpha and beta.

    No need to worry on this, as long as Gabe Aul is allowed to use twitter we will eb presented with an excuse. Or if there is too much headwind just - silence.

    After all please keep in mind: it is just a phone and it's OS.
    Nothing but the truth
    09-27-2015 01:59 PM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    Why is it such a bad thing for people to discuss what they dislike about the Platform, whether they own a phone with the OS or not? Android forum is full of negative feedback about the OS and its taken in strides, then you come to the Windows Forum and i see a lot of "why is everyone picking on us??".
    SO TRUE! I am with one leg in the android world and people there are much more realistic and not get emotional.
    Why is it a bad thing for people to discuss what they dislike about WP? Per se it isn't.

    Yet I'd think it's obvious why people here may occasionally be somewhat touchier when it comes to criticism of their preferred mobile OS. Android isn't going anywhere. No matter how much negativity you encounter on AC, everyone can rest assured it is all rather inconsequential. Not everyone is sure the same can be said for WP however. Many people react to this by putting on a brave face, staying positive, and looking forward. IMHO that's admirable. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist do understand why those folks might not be very appreciative of some people's consistently negative views. If the tables were turned, the Android community would react exactly as the WP community does now. That should be anything but surprising. It's just human nature, and I think that should be respected. Be aware of it! Communicate accordingly!

    The thing is, throwing the entire WP community under the bus by claiming people at WCentral are far less realistic and overemotional isn't exactly respectful! This is the exact same nonsense I just finished explaining to Paul1266, just from the opposite side.

    You are free to discuss all the things you dislike about W10M, but if you can't stop yourself from kicking the entire WP community in the process, a community that is already a bit down, then you're not welcome here.

    I'm sure we're better than this. If I'm mistaken and we're not more sophisticated, then I'll have to start doling out infractions for this sort of thing. I'd just prefer not to.

    There is no neutrality that is supposed to be in serious journalism. From the users I not expect this but at least from the authors. But it's simply: praise whatever MS does.
    Hmmm... more indiscriminate criticism directed straight at the community as a whole and the entire WCentral staff... ("no neutrality", "praise whatever MS does")...

    ...my patience is running thin...
    09-27-2015 03:51 PM
  5. Ian Too's Avatar
    I'd like to thank the OP for starting this thread and to those who have responded, particularly A5cent. The experience has been... instructive.

    I've been committed to the Microsoft ecosystem since 2006, leaving for a very brief period for an iPhone which simply didn't meet my needs and lead to an embarrassing episode where I carried two phones. This wasn't because MS products were particularly good, they were the only ones that could do what I needed. I already had the idea in my head that Microsoft products were clunky and always playing catch-up to superior, but prohibitively expensive Apple products, which weren't as good as my beloved Acorn. (Remember them?) Given that 2 of my PC's came with Millennium and Vista, I can hardly be blamed for that opinion. Microsoft still suffer this from this perception today, though I no longer think it applies.

    For me that changed with Windows Phone 7. Microsoft seem to have learned that bigger is not necessarily better, but more importantly, they were brave enough to take a different approach and their answer was not just fresh, it was elegant. I loved its clarity, simplicity and buttery smoothness. It was an iPhone contender for those who wanted choice in which device they used and resented Apple's way of tying you in to their services. I was happy to put up with a comparative lack of features and trust that MS would update the device over time. For me that promise was fulfilled with Portico and Mango, but unfortunately, it just didn't catch on.

    This started the process of compromise which in some ways spoiled Windows Phone. WP was reengineered to run with less on board memory, which bought some success, but sometimes I wonder whether MS should have stuck to their guns. Maybe things would have been better if they had continued the push to add features to an immature OS, rather than commit resources to chasing a sector of the market where it's notoriously hard to make a profit.

    With Windows 10 we are having to swallow another, somewhat bigger dose of compromise, this time to accommodate Android and Apple apps ported over to the Windows Store. Well, one of the most persistent complaints against WP was the lack of apps and we've all seen how poorly apps run under emulation. I can't see any better way for Microsoft to address this problem, so have to accept this as well, though I'm no great app user.

    Another area where WP has not developed smoothly are where we all as Mr Belfiore said, had to 'eat our greens'. Some people felt burned when WP transitioned to version 8 and this was not entirely unjustified - they did find out rather late in the day their device was not going to be upgraded. As a proud Surface RT owner I know - the one thing promised that actually I wanted, touch versions of Office, is the one thing I'm not getting. With Windows Phone 10 that pattern is recapitulating; people with 4GB of internal memory are being left behind. I understand better than many the Microsoft have to husband their resources but really wonder if they are too profligate with their promises.

    On the issue of W10 being beta software and that being merely an excuse, I feel critics are right in saying that this diminishes with each release, but I think they miss or ignore two things: that each recent release has been a significant improvement and that after the software's RTM, there is a further stage where the OS is optimised for each device. I will be surprised if WM10 is as smooth as WP8.1, but I hope and expect further improvement once MS can concentrate on developing their unified platform.

    As for the future, I'm hopeful. This final transition is the biggest and most painful one yet, so it's no surprise our morale is low; but finally, Microsoft will be able to concentrate all their resources on developing their OS, rather than adapting it. I expect the OS to gain features more quickly than before and WM to benefit from a halo effect from Windows 10. Greater app availability will increase demand, which will cast more light on the failings of Android (Stagefright anyone?) and people unsatisfied with Google's OS will see an alternative.

    Recent renders of the 950/950XL also encourage me, as they seem to be a distinct improvement over the clunkiness of the earlier ones. I will be staying with Windows Mobile for the foreseeable future, but that is because I don't see a viable alternative and I really do expect to see a steady flow of improvements from now on. No more compromises Microsoft, please.
    Blackadder_100, libra89 and a5cent like this.
    09-28-2015 07:24 AM
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