1. ytrewq's Avatar
    The right question is, "How does MS get people to buy the 950 and 950XL given its historically low share of the smartphone market?"

    A recent thread suggests selling at a loss. Horrible idea, IMHO. That's just waiving the white flag. Sure, the phones should sell for a bit less (but not at a loss) compared to other top-tiered phones in order to get people's attention. But if MS wants to build market share, you ultimately do that by proving that these are the superior phones, not just that they are cheap.

    So what is superior about the 950 and 950XL? Frankly, I think there are many features that set them apart, and if MS emphasizes the positives, it could move the needle on market share.

    1) The camera. Sure, the 20MP camera spec sounds similar to other top-tier phones. But a megapixel is not a megapixel. The current generation of top-tier PureView cameras already blow the competitors out of the water in many situations. (My wife has a Galaxy S5, but when we are together, she doesn't bother using her camera, and just borrows my Icon, because she knows the Icon takes much better pictures.) If the rumors are true that MS has improved the PureView system in the 950 and 950XL, MS needs to promote these phones as "the shutterbug's smartphone." Photog buffs care a lot more about the camera than the app store. So accentuate the positive.

    2) Iris scanner. This is super cool, and -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm not aware of any other flagship phones that offer it.

    3) Xbox One streaming. I'm not a gamer, but any kid who owns an Xbox One is going to be intrigued by the possibility of being able to play Xbox One games on a phone when the kid isn't at home. A lot of kids will be less concerned about the gaming app gap if suddenly they can play all their Xbox One games on their phone. (Xbox One games > AppStore games.)

    4) Continuum. I'm not sold on the notion that this is useful in the US. I get it for countries in which many people can't afford a computer other than a smartphone. But in the US, as cool as it is, I'm just not sure when I would actually use it. But if MS has figured out a way to make it useful for us, then by all means, emphasize it, because it's cool.

    If MS comes forward with an ad campaign that emphasizes the amazing camera, and another campaign that emphasizes streaming Xbox One games to your smartphone, these phones will get a LOT of interest.

    If MS focuses its marketing on these features, and offers these phones at a modest discount to other flagships, consumers will take notice.

    Selling the phones at a loss, on the other hand, would simply be a statement that "we don't think we can compete on any basis other than price." That's the wrong message to send.
    10-01-2015 07:23 PM
  2. ytrewq's Avatar
    BTW, I'm not sure how far along the Xbox One streaming is on Windows 10 Mobile. If that's not ready yet, that's a shame, because that would be an enormous selling point.
    10-01-2015 07:33 PM
  3. SonOfDad's Avatar
    1) The camera. Sure, the 20MP camera spec sounds similar to other top-tier phones. But a megapixel is not a megapixel. The current generation of top-tier PureView cameras already blow the competitors out of the water in many situations. (My wife has a Galaxy S5, but when we are together, she doesn't bother using her camera, and just borrows my Icon, because she knows the Icon takes much better pictures.) If the rumors are true that MS has improved the PureView system in the 950 and 950XL, MS needs to promote these phones as "the shutterbug's smartphone." Photog buffs care a lot more about the camera than the app store. So accentuate the positive.
    Nokia made a big deal about camera quality and even went as far to say the cameras quality is the #1 aspect in buying a new phone, that doesn't seem to have helped WP market share. The constant bombardment of sensor, OIS, laser focus, dual LED/triple LED is likely just confusing the hell out of people as well.

    2) Iris scanner. This is super cool, and -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm not aware of any other flagship phones that offer it.
    It does seem like cool tech, depends on it doing more than unlocking the phone really. If it extends through to payments how well will it function? Will the average consumer be able to touch the phone to the NFC reader and have the phone scan their eye easily without failure?

    3) Xbox One streaming. I'm not a gamer, but any kid who owns an Xbox One is going to be intrigued by the possibility of being able to play Xbox One games on a phone when the kid isn't at home. A lot of kids will be less concerned about the gaming app gap if suddenly they can play all their Xbox One games on their phone. (Xbox One games > AppStore games.)
    Again seems cool, a number of my married friends like the idea on PC as the lounge room isn't always available to them. I would imagine this would be fairly bandwidth intensive though on moible

    4) Continuum. I'm not sold on the notion that this is useful in the US. I get it for countries in which many people can't afford a computer other than a smartphone. But in the US, as cool as it is, I'm just not sure when I would actually use it. But if MS has figured out a way to make it useful for us, then by all means, emphasize it, because it's cool.
    I think it's meh, might be useful in emerging markets but PC's and low end laptops are cheap as chips.

    Quite frankly I think they're going to loose more WP8 users by making W10m more 'android like' than they are convincing users to come over and have a similar experience with apps (maybe) being ported after they have been released on Android or iOS.
    theefman and Kram Sacul like this.
    10-02-2015 12:47 AM
  4. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar

    Quite frankly I think they're going to loose more WP8 users by making W10m more 'android like' than they are convincing users to come over and have a similar experience with apps (maybe) being ported after they have been released on Android or iOS.
    This is basically the truest thing about windows 10 that i do fear. I'm already feeling that way.
    10-02-2015 01:00 AM
  5. Javier De Pablo Losada's Avatar
    The right question is, "How does MS get people to buy the 950 and 950XL given its historically low share of the smartphone market?"

    A recent thread suggests selling at a loss. Horrible idea, IMHO. That's just waiving the white flag. Sure, the phones should sell for a bit less (but not at a loss) compared to other top-tiered phones in order to get people's attention. But if MS wants to build market share, you ultimately do that by proving that these are the superior phones, not just that they are cheap.

    So what is superior about the 950 and 950XL? Frankly, I think there are many features that set them apart, and if MS emphasizes the positives, it could move the needle on market share.

    1) The camera. Sure, the 20MP camera spec sounds similar to other top-tier phones. But a megapixel is not a megapixel. The current generation of top-tier PureView cameras already blow the competitors out of the water in many situations. (My wife has a Galaxy S5, but when we are together, she doesn't bother using her camera, and just borrows my Icon, because she knows the Icon takes much better pictures.) If the rumors are true that MS has improved the PureView system in the 950 and 950XL, MS needs to promote these phones as "the shutterbug's smartphone." Photog buffs care a lot more about the camera than the app store. So accentuate the positive.

    2) Iris scanner. This is super cool, and -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm not aware of any other flagship phones that offer it.

    3) Xbox One streaming. I'm not a gamer, but any kid who owns an Xbox One is going to be intrigued by the possibility of being able to play Xbox One games on a phone when the kid isn't at home. A lot of kids will be less concerned about the gaming app gap if suddenly they can play all their Xbox One games on their phone. (Xbox One games > AppStore games.)

    4) Continuum. I'm not sold on the notion that this is useful in the US. I get it for countries in which many people can't afford a computer other than a smartphone. But in the US, as cool as it is, I'm just not sure when I would actually use it. But if MS has figured out a way to make it useful for us, then by all means, emphasize it, because it's cool.

    If MS comes forward with an ad campaign that emphasizes the amazing camera, and another campaign that emphasizes streaming Xbox One games to your smartphone, these phones will get a LOT of interest.

    If MS focuses its marketing on these features, and offers these phones at a modest discount to other flagships, consumers will take notice.

    Selling the phones at a loss, on the other hand, would simply be a statement that "we don't think we can compete on any basis other than price." That's the wrong message to send.
    You are completely right. If people see that they are cheap, they won't buy it. They will save a little more to buy a "better phone". It's marketing.
    10-02-2015 06:29 AM
  6. Nikolai Kuzbanovsky's Avatar
    I bet they will be overpriced, like all other competitor devices...
    MS copies Apple on every step, I don't see why miss the most important!
    Vyenkatesh likes this.
    10-02-2015 11:53 AM
  7. theefman's Avatar
    You are completely right. If people see that they are cheap, they won't buy it. They will save a little more to buy a "better phone". It's marketing.
    Price is a good incentive when you have very little else to offer today's smartphone buyer and thats where the market is moving towards now with devices like the Moto X and OnePlus, well regarded but sold for well below the average flagship price. Getting more buyers using their devices addresses one of the biggest issues facing WP today, the low number of users, which in turn keeps devs and their apps away. Do all you can to entice users with high powered devices at lower than competitors prices (like the Moto X) and then its possible you'll keep them if Microsoft can then get devs porting their apps in numbers.

    However as was said, with W10M now sporting more of an android look and with barely any differentiating features its hard to see what the incentive is to buy into Microsoft's ecosystem for buyers already used to powerful devices running all the software they want.
    10-02-2015 12:15 PM
  8. d3ac0n's Avatar
    They should sell at the $1000-$1500 range. So they flop and when the fire sale hits they become competitively priced as they should be day 1
    10-02-2015 01:20 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ They will "flop" either way. High end Lumias have never sold in large enough volumes to be worthwhile for the OEM. These will be no different.

    These are built for existing WM enthusiasts. Us basically. For nobody else. The only decision MS has to make is how much they want to lose. They can sell few of these at an average price and loose some money, or they can sell few of these at a low price and loose lots of money. Those are their only two options.

    Instead of practically giving them away and "conceding" to all onlookers that these devices are trash that nobody would want to spend money on, not even the fans, they should instead focus on giving people a good deal. That doesn't mean pricing them low, but it does mean giving people their money's worth, possibly by granting rebates for people running W10, offering free subscriptions to groove music and OneDrive, offering rebates for people who recommend a device to someone else, handing out a free W10 license to purchasers who are still running W7, throwing in $50 in credit for the app store, etc. Just as examples...

    If MS can show how they are giving you $1000 worth, by bundling $300 worth of goodies to your purchase of a $700 phone at a price of 599.- (after rebates) that would be a great deal. Something like that could get people talking, without implying the device is worthless.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-02-2015 at 05:33 PM. Reason: formatting only
    10-02-2015 02:20 PM
  10. triageatdawn's Avatar
    I bet they will be overpriced, like all other competitor devices...
    MS copies Apple on every step, I don't see why miss the most important!


    Wrong site, bubba. Back to iMore.
    10-02-2015 05:29 PM
  11. bo_woods's Avatar
    http://ultraimg.com/images/51FmR.gif

    Wrong site, bubba. Back to iMore.
    Yea he has it backwards for the most part
    10-02-2015 08:01 PM
  12. mjperry51's Avatar
    A flagship is not for everyone.

    It's for a power user --high end users who need lots of capability. It's also for the the people who always want the "bestest" out there.

    Especially now with the hardware acquisition model in the US moving away from a "carrier financed" mode, the cost of these devices will be a consideration.

    We all don't have $1800 laptops, or $1600 desktops. We still get things done.

    As long as MS doesn't over-saturate the low and middle level Windows phone market they'll do fine. Some will move up to a higher power phone when they need or want to.
    libra89, a5cent and 920Walker like this.
    10-03-2015 06:51 AM
  13. odin09's Avatar
    I think that price is just as important as marketing. People just aren't going to spend iPhone money on a windows phone just because of a bundle of extras. Marketing though needs to get some interest in the first place. In the past we saw windows phone commercials, a few really good ones, show for a few weeks and then fade away. I have always thought that if they could do something unique with Xbox that would do a lot in getting new users. I thought cameras would bring more people in but so far it hasn't been the case. I don't know which direction Microsoft will go in but hopefully price and marketing can do something to help market share.
    10-03-2015 07:44 AM
  14. DavidinCT's Avatar
    4) Continuum. I'm not sold on the notion that this is useful in the US. I get it for countries in which many people can't afford a computer other than a smartphone. But in the US, as cool as it is, I'm just not sure when I would actually use it. But if MS has figured out a way to make it useful for us, then by all means, emphasize it, because it's cool.
    When I first saw this, I was OMG that is cool but, when it comes down it, it really depends on how useful it is. Now looking over the corporate world, this would be the dream setup, a $500-700 phone, that does their computer, phone, and all their work ? All we need is a Monitor and blue-tooth keyboard and a dock or some time. Cool...

    There was a Android device that tried to do this a few years ago, where you would have a phone and for anther $300-400 you can buy what looked like a laptop with no guts in it, connect your phone and it turns to a desktop. It did not do very well, and I can see why....(Android as a desktop OS and costs)

    When it comes down to it on the consumer level is a question if it will be usable. We are talking the average person in the US, they have at least 1 computer/tablet at home, a TV and a phone (everyone in the home over 12 years old has one). Will using your phone as a computer have the performance to handle day to day stuff ? What kind of limits will it have ? Is this a full blown Windows 10, or a stripped down limited one.

    I guess when it comes down to it for me, if it can run some older x86 apps and I can just hook it up to run them on a full blown setup, maybe... but, I think for MOST people, it will be a use it a few times....Cool, and never touch it again.. I also carry a upper end USB 3.0 256gb drive everywhere, and I keep a VM on it to run some of my specialty apps time to time (install VMware player on a PC, load up my VM and run the VM right off the drive). So depending on it's limits, it might be useful for me.
    a5cent and Laura Knotek like this.
    10-03-2015 01:40 PM
  15. marpamcy's Avatar
    ^ These are built for existing WM enthusiasts. Us basically. For nobody else. The only decision MS has to make is how much they want to lose. They can sell few of these at an average price and loose some money, or they can sell few of these at a low price and loose lots of money. Those are their only two options.
    I hope this is not their intention. A giant like Microsoft have the means and if pull the right strings the company can gain phone market share.
    I believe its not about higher phone specs ( iPhone device specs are lower than many android devices). Its not even about real support from global phone brands like HTC, Samsung, LG etc.
    The lack of phone carrier interest (mobile plans), and the lack of interest from developers to create apps for WM platform is the real problem here.
    10-03-2015 02:24 PM
  16. gazmatic's Avatar
    if microsoft wants any success in mobile os then they should emulate google and not apple.
    these devices CANNOT have apple esque prices. they need to have nexusp like prices.

    |maximum price for 950xl should be $650 with the accessories included. |maximum.
    better price would be $599 with accessories.

    lets see what microsoft does.
    10-03-2015 06:22 PM
  17. desitunez's Avatar
    Dont we know that already , Microsoft doesn't care about market share of mobile anymore ? , as CEO / VP of Devices have said many times " we are making flagships for our fans / enthusiastic users " , these are just show cases what they can do with OS / nothing to do with market share .
    a5cent likes this.
    10-03-2015 07:13 PM
  18. marpamcy's Avatar
    All the latest marketing moves, W10 universal app platform, continuum, project Astoria ... it doesn't feel like Microsoft works just for the fans or that they are admitting defeat in mobile phone business.
    10-04-2015 05:01 AM
  19. Javier De Pablo Losada's Avatar
    Price is a good incentive when you have very little else to offer today's smartphone buyer and thats where the market is moving towards now with devices like the Moto X and OnePlus, well regarded but sold for well below the average flagship price. Getting more buyers using their devices addresses one of the biggest issues facing WP today, the low number of users, which in turn keeps devs and their apps away. Do all you can to entice users with high powered devices at lower than competitors prices (like the Moto X) and then its possible you'll keep them if Microsoft can then get devs porting their apps in numbers.

    However as was said, with W10M now sporting more of an android look and with barely any differentiating features its hard to see what the incentive is to buy into Microsoft's ecosystem for buyers already used to powerful devices running all the software they want.
    It's true that you cannot set the same price as the iphone or Samsung galaxy s6, but you should not sell it at a loss. If you sell your flagship at $350, people will see it as a cheap phone and with a not-so-good OS. The S6 edge is more expensive that the iphone for a reason: it's better. All manufactures used to sell their phones always cheaper than the iphone. which created a vision that the iphone was the best phone in the market. Lowering the price, you set your image at a lower position. However, due to the fact that there are not too many WP users, you should sell it cheaper, but not so much. $100 less would be a good price I think. Between 550-650
    libra89 likes this.
    10-05-2015 11:29 AM

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