12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. Haddo20's Avatar
    I cant believe everyone is whining over this, first MS hasn't ditched windows phone, just windows 8 which will be replaced by 10, and everyone keeps forgetting that windows 10 is being built constantly and is in full steam after windows 8 flop. Microsoft will only focus on usability for now. BTW Rome wasn't built in a day. (give it time, or you could just switch to ios or android MS isn't forcing you)
    Muessig likes this.
    11-11-2015 08:04 PM
  2. ajj3085's Avatar
    Solid and fast? Not anymore, it's not. W10M is NOW exactly like Android in the performance department. By that, I mean it completely depends on the hardware you have it on. WP7 and WP8 did NOT depend on the hardware, and ran great on everything. I've been testing this disgusting W10 on a Lumia 635 and 640. It runs the worst on the 635 and is BARELY acceptable on the 640. Cortana is a completely loss on both devices, and there is no smoothness in any of the operation of apps and screens. Oh, sure, I'll just bet it runs quite well on a 6-core or 8-core machine with loads of RAM. Welcome to Android's world.

    As for Skype, as bad as it is on WP8, its worse on W10. This weird, nonsensical quasi-integration they've cooked up doesn't even function correctly, nor does it do so intuitively.

    I do not believe anything that us diehards love about WP8 will ever be made right on W10---if Microsoft even keeps them at all. I don't think they care. This is CERTAINLY true of W10 on the desktop/tablet. More so, in fact.
    I suspect the insider builds are debug builds, which have a bunch extra checks and unoptimized code. I suspect the release build will be faster.
    Varun Rajan likes this.
    11-11-2015 08:56 PM
  3. elindalyne's Avatar
    Insider builds are indeed debug builds... Did you really not notice that your system slowed down significantly on wifi? That's because it was phoning home for it to push out error, telemetry, and other data points. By joining the insider program you are basically giving Microsoft allowance to get any and all data they need out of your phone usage. This is absolutely not a privacy issue so don't start spouting that it is.

    Most of this will be turned off in the RTM version.
    11-11-2015 09:01 PM
  4. cpmcgrath's Avatar
    Solid and fast? Not anymore, it's not. W10M is NOW exactly like Android in the performance department. By that, I mean it completely depends on the hardware you have it on. WP7 and WP8 did NOT depend on the hardware, and ran great on everything. I've been testing this disgusting W10 on a Lumia 635 and 640. It runs the worst on the 635 and is BARELY acceptable on the 640.
    I picked up a Lumia 532 to try out Windows Mobile 10 as I didn't want to install it on my primary device yet. This is a phone I literally picked up for AU$30, I don't know the specs but I think it's safe to say it's at the low end. Windows Mobile 10 is smooth, fast and hasn't looked like crashing once.

    Earlier builds might have been a dog on such devices, but the current build is great.
    11-11-2015 09:26 PM
  5. congthanhgiong's Avatar
    I wonder how many key universal official apps has added to the store so far from banks, games.. ?

    No announcement at all, and Ipad pro still beating Surface because of the claim of better app store. Terrible when a more powerful product gets beat up by such a way.
    11-11-2015 10:46 PM
  6. avengerxp's Avatar
    Have been on a lumia 525 then the 640 with WP 8.1. I have been using my phone for calling and productivity to carry out my work. upgraded to WP 10 build 10581. The difference is huge. email has the full functionality, attaching documents, downloading to download folder etc. edge browser is fast and smooth on web. all it needs is cut and polish.

    If your whining about W10 beta (hence insider build) & not noticed any improvements, then you have not used WP 8 or 8.1 for productivity. I used ios, android but stopped at WP for it's simplicity 7 smooth performance. in a few months, all the banking apps and other major apps will have windows apps, due to they being able to reach both desktop, tablet & mobile audience..

    feel sorry about the people who keeps whining about UI, when u have a whole lot of great things here...
    11-12-2015 12:13 AM
  7. trooper11's Avatar
    I wonder how many key universal official apps has added to the store so far from banks, games.. ?

    No announcement at all, and Ipad pro still beating Surface because of the claim of better app store. Terrible when a more powerful product gets beat up by such a way.
    If you read some reviews about the iPad Pro, you'll notice most make it pretty clear that this is a poor attempt for Apple, pointing out the obvious issues against the Surface. It literally is just a bigger iPad with some new accessories.

    The app store claim is not as useful here since the idea is that its a device for getting work done, and Windows far outweighs Apple's app store for software use to get things done.
    Gautam Kabiraj likes this.
    11-12-2015 12:53 AM
  8. seq1's Avatar
    LumiaHelps claims "(Windows 10 Mobile) will begin rolling out in December" https://twitter.com/LumiaHelp/status/664652579029168128
    So, probably Windows 10 Mobile isn't actually ready after all. They still have a month to fix the issues/bugs.
    11-12-2015 02:10 AM
  9. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    I am typing on an LG G4. I also have a Lumia 920 running the latest build of 10. Android has felt far better and polished than WM10 currently does since roughly late 2011.
    Well I would not say really from 2011. I remember back then the 2.1 and 2.2 were such a pain and the overall design was not that good, but compared to WP7 at that time and 7.5, Android was already gaining users and had much more apps.
    As it is now, it really is much more polished in every aspect. Where can you find Windows 10?: In an ongoing never ending beta stage, another OS reborn from a company that simply does not know about getting things right. Yes, Win10 has lots of potential, but at this rate, with the lack of QC on MS's side, both desktop and mobile will see many months from now, until a decent stable and at least 95% bug free build will be released.
    11-12-2015 02:24 AM
  10. SonOfDad's Avatar
    Just because you want this feature/option now doesn't mean it's that easy to implement. Look where WM10 is now. Damn near feature even with every OS (mobile), in less time that it took the others to get to their point.
    I think you need to re-evaluate the last sentence however the main issue is lost features. Take a look at feedback to Microsoft on universal inbox for example.
    11-12-2015 02:42 AM
  11. MysticForce's Avatar
    To me w10m is twice nicer design then wp8.1.
    Especially settings and start screen.
    11-12-2015 02:56 AM
  12. missionsparta's Avatar
    in a few months, all the banking apps and other major apps will have windows apps, due to they being able to reach both desktop, tablet & mobile audience..
    I'll believe it when I see it. You would have thought we would see some improvement in the Windows app store this far out from the Windows 10 launch, and it is still the exact same apps.
    11-12-2015 03:01 AM
  13. SonOfDad's Avatar
    I'll believe it when I see it.
    Yeah it's probably not a good idea holding breath on this one. As I replied to a question of yours about apps (or lack of) in the Windows 10 forum; why would a company invest the time in a universal app where the desktop user (the only majority MS holds) already has access to a more powerful legacy app or the company website through either the included or any number of 3rd party fully featured web browsers, and who wants to use an app designed around tapping the screen with a mouse and keyboard :/

    These companies might well say "show us the increased mobile device market and we'll spend some time." However we already know that users aren't running out to purchase when the apps aren't available.
    11-12-2015 04:23 AM
  14. Sarita Punia's Avatar
    Indeed, agree with you. current OS is complete mess. Phone restart using edge. performance improved in last build however still not enough. Many of application do not launch and need a restart. Camera doesn't work properly. Not at all fit for 8 GB phone as more than half space is occupied by OS file. I do not think MS is serious about WM
    11-12-2015 04:23 AM
  15. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    So i woke up this morning and saw that Daniel posted about this thread on the home page of this website. I read the article he wrote and to me it feels like he didn't read beyond the first page of comments in this thread. For some reason he thought that i have "an axe to grind" with MS. So let me clarify exactly what i am trying to say through this thread.

    1. I dont hate MS. As many of you might think, i dont hate MS. In fact i love it so much that i wish i could work there even if it was for free. I am a huge fan of MS. All my devices (phones, laptops and PCs) are running MS products and i do everything through the MS eco-system. Every device in my house has MS OS on it, my parents' phones are lumias, my sister's phone is a lumia and my phone is a lumia.

    2. Criticizing MS is not hatred. The only reason i put this thread was because i care too much for this platform and for the eco-system in general that i dont want to see the other reviewers slam MS for the UI/UX issue. I mean after all, this is better come from me and now rather than from android/iOS bias reviewers later after RTM.

    3. UI/UX is not everything in an OS but it is the first thing a user will see, feel and interact with. When a new potential user looks at a phone, he will notice how the phone looks like and how the UI is. That is why i was saying that the UI forms the user's first impression of the OS which is why it is very important to take care (alot of care) of this component of the OS before it hits RTM.

    4. Criticism is NOT complaining, whining or .... (insert other similar words). When someone criticizes something or someone, it is not hate/dislike as many might think, in fact, most of the time that person cares for that thing/someone that he is trying to get them to do better. So i am not hating on MS, but i am trying to do my part as a fan, developer, insider and user in helping them shape this platform.

    5. Alot of people who commented on this thread use the WaaS (Windows as a Service) as an excuse for MS to release in-complete, feature missing OS to the masses. Yes, no software is perfect, all softwares have bugs and they all receive updates to fix those bugs later during its lifetime. But if you think about it, WaaS is just a fancy term by MS, put together in order to prevent people from saying that this is bad, or this is missing because then they can simply answer: "well, windows now is a service, so soon(tm) you will get an update to do this". If updates to a software are considered services then that means android is also a service, so is iOS too because they all release periodic updates. WaaS is not an excuse for MS to release a system to millions of users and when they report (not complain) about issues, MS tells them to wait for updates that are coming soon.

    6. Never in this thread have i "complained" of performance issues. Being a software developer myself, i know how an ALPHA/BETA stage software performs. Main point of this thread was the UI/UX issues and inconsistencies throughout the OS and MS's first party apps. Basically every UI in the OS is following its own rules and design guidelines. This is what i am trying to get to here.

    So i read the article and started reading through the comments on it. I noticed many people who agreed with me and many who didnt. and i respect both sides, after all we are MS fans here and we are all human beings entitled to our own opinions and believes. But then someone like this guy comes along and ruins it for everyone: 2015-11-12-12_41_45-windows-10-mobile-ready-masses_-_-windows-central.png

    I also learned that criticizing how this site works or its priorities will get me a private message from a moderator warning me not to change the subject of the thread.... thanks for that.

    Oh, and to those who said that my argument about the gray colors in the OS is just bad. If you have read anything about design aesthetics, you will know that colors in a design are used to convey emotions in a design. Bright colors bring joy and happy feelings to users and colors like gray represent sadness. So colors are like a powerful weapon in the hands of the designer and can make or break a design. That is why i was saying gray is a bad choice.

    Look at MS ads for windows 10 mobile or any WP devices. The focus on 2 things: UI (Start Screen) and Cortana and what it can do. They make a big deal of cortana and how awesome it is and all its great features (I too think Cortana is absolutely great and epic). Now all that in the ads, so when a user is looking for a new phone and decided to take a look at W10M they will notice the beautiful UI and then they will go into Cortana in the current version (which i think is an abomination and an insult to everyone who used Cortana in WP8.1) here is what they will see:
    (Phone is using dark color)
    wp_ss_20151112_0005.png
    wp_ss_20151112_0006.png

    And then comes the biggest abomination and insult (I am talking about the bing mobile website wrapper and not Daniel Rubino LOL):
    wp_ss_20151112_0007.png

    Tell me again please, how do u consider an OS with such a mess in one of the most important components, its shell, READY?
    11-12-2015 04:31 AM
  16. Steve Adams's Avatar
    I wonder how many key universal official apps has added to the store so far from banks, games.. ?

    No announcement at all, and Ipad pro still beating Surface because of the claim of better app store. Terrible when a more powerful product gets beat up by such a way.
    HA HA HA....

    that is the funniest thing I have read in here. The ipad pro beating the surface. It does no such thing at all. besides residing in starbucks with hipsters. Most of which probably have steampunk covers on them. ha ha ha.

    I love iwhatever fanboys. Thinking just because the great one releases another sub par product that its the best thing since sliced bread. Its just a big expensive Ipad with nothing new to the table besides a lackluster pen and crappy scaling.

    Even tim cook has to publically ridicule the surface line because they are getting mopped in this area. He had to do something to get the sheep back in the coral.
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    11-12-2015 04:35 AM
  17. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    Have you seen the last build? I cant tell without see it
    Yes, i am using it since it came out.
    11-12-2015 04:40 AM
  18. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    I personally think that the important thing is how the os works not what it looks like
    Windows 98 still works, you are welcome to "upgrade" to it if you want.
    11-12-2015 04:41 AM
  19. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    As for Cortana, you know it's powered by Bing right? They're the SAME thing. You can change the default search engine on the browser thought
    Look a couple of posts up, i know it is powered by bing (thank god it is) but i am talking on how they just show u the bing site when u search for something instead of the nice, custom UI she had in WP8.1
    11-12-2015 04:43 AM
  20. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    I respectfully disagree with everything you stated.
    And i respect you for respectfully disagreeing with me... lol
    11-12-2015 04:44 AM
  21. SonOfDad's Avatar
    HA HA HA....

    The ipad pro beating the surface. It does no such thing at all. besides residing in starbucks with hipsters. Most of which probably have steampunk covers on them. ha ha ha.

    I love iwhatever fanboys. Thinking just because the great one releases another sub par product that its the best thing since sliced bread. Its just a big expensive Ipad with nothing new to the table besides a lackluster pen and crappy scaling.

    Even tim cook has to publically ridicule the surface line because they are getting mopped in this area. He had to do something to get the sheep back in the coral.
    This is all very true but doesn't cover the text you are quoting in regards to official apps and unfortunately apps are the key even tough the typical iUser only seems to sms, check Facebook and play the game of the week they still say "we've got all the apps over here".
    11-12-2015 04:46 AM
  22. KimRM's Avatar
    Tell me again please, how do u consider an OS with such a mess in one of the most important components, its shell, READY?
    I haven't used Cortana yet. Still not available in my region so I don't know how it looked or look now. But from the screenshot you provided I have to agree with you that it does seem unfinished. Having a hard time believing this is what they will offer in the official release, hence my point, It's not released yet and the current build is over a month old. We don't know yet what will be released when the day comes. But if it's something like that I'll agree with the critism.
    11-12-2015 05:12 AM
  23. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    I picked up a Lumia 532 to try out Windows Mobile 10 as I didn't want to install it on my primary device yet. This is a phone I literally picked up for AU$30, I don't know the specs but I think it's safe to say it's at the low end. Windows Mobile 10 is smooth, fast and hasn't looked like crashing once.
    I think one reason why so many people report completely different experiences is the last things that get fixed are the bugs/quirks related to the practically infinite combinations of brands, models, installed apps, etc.. And for the ones that don't get a hard reset, I'm sure the registry in those also have various degrees of decay just like a desktop. That's also why a build that isn't ready for prime time in many handsets could still be near perfect in phones like the 950 and 950XL if that was the focus of development with putting out fires in other models a lower priority.
    libra89 likes this.
    11-12-2015 06:00 AM
  24. a5cent's Avatar

    1. I dont hate MS. As many of you might think, i dont hate MS.
    <snipped>

    I noticed many people who agreed with me and many who didnt. and i respect both sides,
    <snipped>
    But then someone like this guy comes along and ruins it for everyone:
    <image with profanity snipped>
    I think it's obvious to almost everyone that you don't hate WP/WM. There will always be a minority of people who can't differ between hate and passionate concern though. Just ignore it. Don't sweat it.

    I agree with your analysis of the UI problems (IMHO much more could be added). I think you're just massively overestimating the potential those UI issues have to deter interested customers from purchasing a WM phone.

    The comments have shown us that a large group of WCentral members dispute that any such serious UI issues exist at all. Many just don't see the problems or think we're making mountains out of mole hills.

    While there is also a large group of members who agree with the view that W10M isn't ready for primetime, a closer look suggests most of them only agree with the general consensus, but less so with the notion that this is primarily due to UI concerns. There is surprisingly little talk of the UI in the comments at all.

    ... and these are the views of WCentral members and WP veterans.

    If not even a majority of WP's biggest fans share these UI concerns, what are the chances of iOS/Android users caring about (not to mention even noticing) what we're criticizing? IMHO pretty much zero.

    To be honest, I wasn't surprised to read that you're a developer. Any analytical job where you're often hunting out the smallest of inconsistencies, conceptual incompleteness or asymmetries will shape how you perceive things, UIs included.
    11-12-2015 06:03 AM
  25. SonOfDad's Avatar
    hence my point, It's not released yet and the current build is over a month old. We don't know yet what will be released when the day comes. But if it's something like that I'll agree with the critism.
    "Bug fixing only" Everyone wearing the I Windows 10 sandwich board was saying the same thing a month prior to official launch seemingly thinking Microsoft would apply some delicious layer of icing but it didn't happen and it was pretty clear it was never going to.

    If they're planning to lay down any big changes it would completely underplay having an insider program.
    11-12-2015 06:08 AM
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