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12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. indospot's Avatar
    I think "ready" and "optimal" are very different things. In my opinion, it's ready. It's fast and far more functional than 8.1.

    It's definitely NOT consistent UI-wise. You have ellipsis menus, you have hamburgers, sometimes you even have both. But, like someone said, WP 8.1 was incredibly consistent, and that helped keep developers away. And users won't be that pushed away by inconsistency. They might notice it, but I don't think it'll stop anyone from using it.

    It's NOT optimal. We expected more in some ways, sure. More consistency would be great, more parity between desktop and mobile apps would also be welcome. We definitely NEED a better Skype experience. But it's ready. The things that are missing do not warrant, in my vision, a delay of the launch. I like the OS enough as it is. I'm still waiting for some improvements, but even as it is right now, it's my favorite OS.
    Prince Pusey, rhapdog and Tactik like this.
    11-12-2015 06:47 AM
  2. Prince Pusey's Avatar
    Now, I understand everyone is complaining about the UI and bugs and everything. Why complain about it when we know it's the features and everything else is what we really love about it. If we really had a problem with the bugs and the UI then there wouldn't be no INSIDER MEMBERS.
    I am loyal to windows because that they keep on fixing and improving and I give them my respect.
    What I really want to know Is there anyone who receives any RTM updates so far?
    11-12-2015 06:48 AM
  3. FearL0rd's Avatar
    Yes, i am using it since it came out.
    You r using the available build. not the latest compiled by Microsoft.
    11-12-2015 06:51 AM
  4. JasonSCarter's Avatar
    MS needs to be careful here. They need to have a solid RTM release. We don't want another ATT 830 issue where it comes out with a software version that doesn't have everything working as it should, then the provider sits on the update for 10 months. I knows has a new update model for W10M, but that remains to be seen how that will work with ATT, Verizon, and TMobile in the USA.
    Zeem Frostmaw likes this.
    11-12-2015 07:27 AM
  5. Mikado_Wu's Avatar
    While I can agree with something in the Article, Anything from The Register can only be taken with a grain of Salt.

    I think the Base Operating System is Probably Read for Production. However Most the APPS no where near ready. Daily Apps like, Mail, Groove, Edge still stink. The People do not care about the underlying code they care about the apps.

    Microsoft has been waiting for the Devlopers to Develop Apps. Sadly this is just like the Hardware side. Dell, HP and others built crap hardware and Apple Passed them. Microsoft had to start making the Surface line. We see the same thing with the APPS. However right now, the Microsoft APP Team, Sucks. Why Why Why, we still not have a funictional tool like the Zune Player. Just make no sense to me.
    11-12-2015 07:31 AM
  6. Triogap's Avatar
    Solid and fast? Not anymore, it's not. W10M is NOW exactly like Android in the performance department. By that, I mean it completely depends on the hardware you have it on. WP7 and WP8 did NOT depend on the hardware, and ran great on everything. I've been testing this disgusting W10 on a Lumia 635 and 640. It runs the worst on the 635 and is BARELY acceptable on the 640. Cortana is a completely loss on both devices, and there is no smoothness in any of the operation of apps and screens. Oh, sure, I'll just bet it runs quite well on a 6-core or 8-core machine with loads of RAM. Welcome to Android's world.
    I'm using it on my 620 as my daily driver. And I have very little problems with it. Ones every 3 days it just freezes up, and I'm required to actually remove the battery. But other then that it is very stable, and app switching is very fluid compared to the situation with WP8 and WP8.1. Oh also forgot, I have a small problem with background audio playback resuming after I receive or place a call.
    11-12-2015 07:54 AM
  7. rhapdog's Avatar
    No announcement at all, and Ipad pro still beating Surface because of the claim of better app store. Terrible when a more powerful product gets beat up by such a way.
    Ipad Pro has been out less than 24 hours. There are no sales numbers. There is no claims of it beating the Surface. The Surface products have been causing a steep decline in Ipad sales, causing Apple to make the iPad Pro to attempt relevancy in the market again, because they were losing that battle in a big way. There is zero evidence that the iPad Pro will succeed with this attempt. There is also zero evidence that it won't. You'll have to give it more than half a day of sales in order to find out.

    I knows has a new update model for W10M, but that remains to be seen how that will work with ATT, Verizon, and TMobile in the USA.
    The new W10M phones announced so far will not be sold on Verizon or Sprint, nor work on their networks. T-Mobile customers can use an unlocked version.

    Let's get to the crux of it. AT&T has already announced that Microsoft will control all updates to Windows 10 Mobile. Once you get it on your device, there will be no more carrier interference. Carriers will be allowed to give "input" before Microsoft rolls out an update, but it is Microsoft that will make the decision to throw the switch and update everyone. There won't be fragmented versions any longer.

    Just like other carriers will be unable to stop iOS from getting updates, they will be unable to stop W10M as well. This is the best part of the news for W10M, and it's about time Microsoft stole this play from Apple's playbook. If Apple can make an iPad Pro, then Microsoft can get updates rolled out.

    The big problem, of course, is getting the carriers to allow people to upgrade to W10M, where the carrier knows they lose all control after that point.
    Jeddic likes this.
    11-12-2015 08:04 AM
  8. JasonSCarter's Avatar
    Let's get to the crux of it. AT&T has already announced that Microsoft will control all updates to Windows 10 Mobile. Once you get it on your device, there will be no more carrier interference. Carriers will be allowed to give "input" before Microsoft rolls out an update, but it is Microsoft that will make the decision to throw the switch and update everyone. There won't be fragmented versions any longer.


    Latest news I saw on that was this:
    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/wind...mobile-updates

    I haven't seen anything directly from ATT saying they won't stand in the way like they do now. We are still going to be waiting on carriers to approve updates in some fashion. Or give input/bug fixes. It remains to be seen if it truly will be a faster update process for Windows 10 Mobile devices here in the USA.
    11-12-2015 08:15 AM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ It's funny (/s) how Thurrott and WMPU interpret that statement from MS in completely different ways. One says nothing has changed, WMPU claims everything has changed.

    Ho hum...

    I wish MS would one day publish a FAQ that answers these types of questions with some technical depth rather than just talking points.
    Last edited by a5cent; 11-12-2015 at 09:19 AM. Reason: formatting only
    libra89 likes this.
    11-12-2015 08:32 AM
  10. rhapdog's Avatar
    Let's get to the crux of it. AT&T has already announced that Microsoft will control all updates to Windows 10 Mobile. Once you get it on your device, there will be no more carrier interference. Carriers will be allowed to give "input" before Microsoft rolls out an update, but it is Microsoft that will make the decision to throw the switch and update everyone. There won't be fragmented versions any longer.


    Latest news I saw on that was this:
    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/wind...mobile-updates

    I haven't seen anything directly from ATT saying they won't stand in the way like they do now. We are still going to be waiting on carriers to approve updates in some fashion. Or give input/bug fixes. It remains to be seen if it truly will be a faster update process for Windows 10 Mobile devices here in the USA.
    ^ It's funny (/s) how Thurrott and WMPU interpret that statement from MS in completely different ways. One says nothing has changed, WMPU claims everything has changed.


    Ho hum...



    I wish MS would one day publish a FAQ that answers these types of questions with some technical depth rather than just talking points.
    Look at the article closely from Thurrott and where he gets his information. Look at the source link. It's the WMPU article that lists the statement from MS and both the statement AND the WMPU article show that Microsoft is in control, like I stated above. Thurrott went into panic mode to increase clicks to his site, plain and simple. I lost any respect for that man a long time ago. He either was too incompetent to read the statement, unable to understand what was written, or deliberately wrote a false article. Perhaps he only skimmed too quickly and misinterpreted, but a responsible journalist (which seems to be rare these days) makes sure of the facts before they portray the facts.
    a5cent and libra89 like this.
    11-12-2015 08:47 AM
  11. Krystianpants's Avatar
    ^ It's funny (/s) how Thurrott and WMPU interpret that statement from MS in completely different ways. One says nothing has changed, WMPU claims everything has changed.


    Ho hum...



    I wish MS would one day publish a FAQ that answers these types of questions with some technical depth rather than just talking points.
    There was an article a while back that said ms would control the updates for windows phone 8.... Same wording and all. Never happened, people were left in the dark and updates took forever. 8.1 took 6 months to get to me. Luckily I had developer preview app. So we will see what happens this time. History repeats itself.

    EDIT: Here's a classic link from windows phone 7 haha.

    \\microsoft not carriers will push win phone 7 updates/
    Last edited by poopyfinger; 11-12-2015 at 09:14 AM.
    920Walker and a5cent like this.
    11-12-2015 08:49 AM
  12. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    I wish MS would one day publish a FAQ that answers these types of questions with some technical depth rather than just talking points.
    The world is going the opposite direction. Companies have figured out that such a tiny percent of customers and potential customers demand information, including even the most basic of operating instructions, that they can completely avoid the cost of providing it. Sure some will grumble, but in the end, even that doesn't effect sales if the competition is doing the same.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-12-2015 08:56 AM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    Look at the article closely from Thurrott and where he gets his information. Look at the source link. It's the WMPU article that lists the statement from MS and both the statement AND the WMPU article show that Microsoft is in control, like I stated above. Thurrott went into panic mode to increase clicks to his site, plain and simple. I lost any respect for that man a long time ago. He either was too incompetent to read the statement, unable to understand what was written, or deliberately wrote a false article. Perhaps he only skimmed too quickly and misinterpreted, but a responsible journalist (which seems to be rare these days) makes sure of the facts before they portray the facts.
    I agree that WMPU's interpretation appears to be truest to the source. It's also possible that Thurrott misinterpreted the statement because he has better and more accurate information himself however (I wouldn't be surprised).

    For me the situation is as follows:

    a)
    I'm hesitant to believe anything released by MS' PR department, which is all WMPU has to go on. If it's not an engineer's or a high level executive's statement, the information is often worthless.

    b)
    I simply don't believe that MS has been able to negotiate a no strings attached, update whenever we want update policy with all carriers around the globe. I'm just not buying it. I do believe that MS will be able to update a LOT more through the store than they've previously been able to, but anything more needs to be proven to me before I'll believe it.

    c)
    So far, the general lack of information and the fact that MS remains very vague about everything doesn't make me very optimistic.

    d)
    It sounds too good to be true. Things that sound too good to be true usually are.

    Admittedly, this is all my personal speculation based only on previous experience. I have no idea what MS are or aren't actually up to.

    The world is going the opposite direction. Companies have figured out that such a tiny percent of customers and potential customers demand information, including even the most basic of operating instructions, that they can completely avoid the cost of providing it. Sure some will grumble, but in the end, even that doesn't effect sales if the competition is doing the same.
    I know. Doesn't mean I have to like it. The biggest threat to consumer protections has always been the know-nothing consumer. We can thank the consumerisation of IT for that. Look at me... haven't reached half my time and already sounding like an old grouch.. ;-)
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-12-2015 09:11 AM
  14. 920Walker's Avatar
    I'll believe it when I see it, and not solely the first update. Hope it's true.
    11-12-2015 09:23 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    We have at least two claims from Microsoft about updates that we're now questioning whether or not they will actually happen:

    1. All WP8 devices will be updated to W10M.
    2. W10M will take updates out of the carriers' hands and Microsoft will be in control.

    At the moment, both of these claims seem to be tenuous at best. I believe, however, that Microsoft has already technically fulfilled both of these promises with the Insider program. Even if nothing changes with official update channels from the current system, I don't know if we can truthfully say that Microsoft did not keep their promises. In fact, I would wager a bet that Microsoft made both of these claims based on the Insider program, knowing that even if the official update system remains unchanged, they kept their word.
    a5cent and Laura Knotek like this.
    11-12-2015 09:49 AM
  16. desaideas1's Avatar
    Since one of the last builds screwed up my Lumia 1020, I had to switch to an iPhone 5 on iOS 9. That whole operating system is SO boring and the UI is FLAT out garbage. I'm glad Microsoft had the whole Metro movement because it forced Joney Ive to screw up the entire iOS, and left Google to outsource UI/UX to disparate teams in Mountain View.

    Yes, WP 8.1 had a magically unified UI/UX and it flowed like butter on hot pancakes. But it's still amazing that the Win10M build on my Lumia 1020 looks ridiculously gorgeous in comparison to the iPhone 5 (or 6+). Granted, for the past months we've been treated to a resuming and loading screen that drives you insane, but the current build has finally removed most of those screens.

    So is Win10M RTM? I'd say it depends on your definition and understanding of how Microsoft is changing it's RTM process to be more lean and agile, reducing QA teams sitting on code that needs to be in the market and leveraging insiders to identify issues.

    Honestly one of the biggest reasons why we're all pissed is that we don't even have semi-flagship hardware to test it on. I think those with a 930 might be having a pretty good run with the current build, and those rare individuals that actually use a 640XL etc.

    The other aspect to understand about RTM in the "new" windows is that it alludes that an in place upgrade can happen without any major changes to the phone requiring a clean flash and reset nor will it suffer from that ridiculous performance degradation of previous builds. for Windows 10 (pc) I also thought that Microsoft couldn't hit their deadline, and for the most part they did. If I was running Win10 there would be a lot more polish and pizzazz added for users on desktops/higher end PC's and I'd get Cortana to have some more rad features (I rarely use it even though I want too) before releasing it...but hey 140 million and counting installs, getting ready to double that Mac OSX install base is not bad.
    11-12-2015 09:55 AM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    We have at least two claims from Microsoft about updates that we're now questioning whether or not they will actually happen:

    1. All WP8 devices will be updated to W10M.
    2. W10M will take updates out of the carriers' hands and Microsoft will be in control.

    At the moment, both of these claims seem to be tenuous at best. I believe, however, that Microsoft has already technically fulfilled both of these promises with the Insider program. Even if nothing changes with official update channels from the current system, I don't know if we can truthfully say that Microsoft did not keep their promises. In fact, I would wager a bet that Microsoft made both of these claims based on the Insider program, knowing that even if the official update system remains unchanged, they kept their word.
    Technically, agreed, but that would again be telling people what they want to hear and then letting them believe what they want to believe, rather than spelling out the facts clearly and concisely.
    tgp and Laura Knotek like this.
    11-12-2015 09:57 AM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    that would again be telling people what they want to hear and then letting them believe what they want to believe, rather than spelling out the facts clearly and concisely.
    Yeah Microsoft would never do anything like that, would they?
    a5cent likes this.
    11-12-2015 10:06 AM
  19. rhapdog's Avatar
    In fact, I would wager a bet that Microsoft made both of these claims based on the Insider program, knowing that even if the official update system remains unchanged, they kept their word.
    I understand where you are coming from here. Really, I do. However, I'd like to provide some perspective.

    Before a person can say "it's the carriers that stop the updates," let's look at how it all works. First, the reason carriers have been in charge of the updates for WP in the past is because of the hoops Microsoft has had to jump through and agreements Microsoft has had to sign to get their phones to be carried by the carriers. It hasn't been that way in the rest of the world, just mainly in the US. Yeah, another US only exclusive. I'll bet the rest of the world is glad to have missed that one.

    If Carriers would be able to stop W10M updates, then they could also stop Insider program updates. The fact is, they can't, because the app itself takes it out of the carrier's hands. What Microsoft has done with W10M is to change it in such a way that the update path no longer goes through the carrier.

    Most of the world doesn't have the "carrier interference" issues as has plagued the US. Unlocked phones are sold, and you can use them on whatever carrier you choose. Updates are from the Manufacturer, or, more accurately, the person who has provided the particular OS. Apple provides updates for iOS, Samsung for their "flavor" of Android, LG for their "flavor" of Android, "Google" for their Android in the more pure form. In the case of Microsoft, the OS is the same and not "flavored" like Android, so Microsoft would be in charge of updates, and they are bound by an agreement with US carriers to only update when the carrier agrees to it.

    Why is Android so fragmented? Because the manufacturer's each have their own flavor of Android, and those manufacturers are the ones responsible for updating the OS. They choose not to. It's not carrier interference in the rest of the world, it is manufacturer apathy. They are responsible for updating the OS because they modified the OS, which means it can't be updated by Google.

    With W10M, there will be ONE OS, not a bunch of flavors for each manufacturer. They won't be able to tinker with it and add their own flair like they do now with Android. Since it will remain a pure, unfettered OS, Microsoft will be able to effect the upgrades.

    But what about the carrier agreements in the US? Have you noticed what has happened? Microsoft has broken off with all US carriers except AT&T. AT&T has been the most cooperative. I think AT&T has agreed to Microsoft's terms here which is why they are being allowed to carry the Lumia 950. All carriers in the US have been informed by Microsoft that their agreement to upgrade any handsets under that carrier's control amends the agreement that once the phone is on W10M that the carrier relinquishes control of updates. That may make it difficult to get some US carriers to agree to upgrading to W10M, because those carriers want to sell you new phones, not extend the life of your old one.

    My 2 cents according to my understanding of the industry. My understanding may or may not be exact, but I "believe" it makes sense, hence I "believe" it.
    Muessig likes this.
    11-12-2015 10:10 AM
  20. feereless's Avatar
    I agree and I will add this..

    A lot of people don't understand that without the new UI android apps would not be able to be ported over. You HAVE to have your hamburger menu, because that is what is on IOS and android. You have to maintain some level of similarity between android, ios and wp10. IMO, 8.1 was very simplistic and different, and perhaps that is why no one wanted to try it, since they "wouldn't know what to do". So for those who don't want the new UI... think to yourself... would WP10 succeed if it was the same? Ok, I'll answer it for you... No. It would die and you will be left with zero support.
    11-12-2015 10:48 AM
  21. wisedesi's Avatar
    I have justed installed latest build on lumia 925 t-mobile and what a build. Works fast and fluide. Makes it feel like a new phone. I am really ready for this one. Till now I was trying on older lumia 520 and it was slow as hell(I have not tried the last build) but on 925 this thing is awesome. So, I would say it is ready to released for slow ring and to even, non insider people.
    11-12-2015 10:50 AM
  22. stekar's Avatar
    Because, to begin with, they were NOKIA lumia phones . . .
    11-12-2015 10:50 AM
  23. theefman's Avatar
    I agree and I will add this..

    A lot of people don't understand that without the new UI android apps would not be able to be ported over. You HAVE to have your hamburger menu, because that is what is on IOS and android. You have to maintain some level of similarity between android, ios and wp10. IMO, 8.1 was very simplistic and different, and perhaps that is why no one wanted to try it, since they "wouldn't know what to do". So for those who don't want the new UI... think to yourself... would WP10 succeed if it was the same? Ok, I'll answer it for you... No. It would die and you will be left with zero support.
    Nothing stopped devs implementing whatever UI they wanted on WP8. Netflix is a good example of an app that has a totally different UI to the native WP one that is consistent across devices. And even Microsoft's own Smartglass app has a hamburger menu even though it runs on WP8 and the same UI was included in the MS Health app. So the UI by itself shouldn't have been a barrier to porting apps but rather the extra work required to port the code itself. Now that MS has introduced their bridges feature devs can port their apps without MS having had to gut the UI and UX of the OS to suit those apps. And with no real sign that apps will be ported in any significant number it seems it was all for nothing anyway.
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    11-12-2015 11:11 AM
  24. Tactik's Avatar
    More on topic, I think it is ready. It runs flawlessly on my 1020. Most of the big social media apps are there. The rest can follow shortly. If it runs this well on my 1020 can't wait to see how it runs on a 950 XL.
    Guytronic likes this.
    11-12-2015 11:59 AM
  25. feereless's Avatar
    thats because both the OS and the bridge software is still in beta... no one wants to tinker with something that isnt finished.
    11-12-2015 12:02 PM
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