12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. The Jimmy James's Avatar
    The carriers need to be forced out. Totally.

    They have NO BUSINESS in anything that happens on my phone. I pay them to transmit data, and that's all. They need to LEARN THEIR PLACE and then learn to be happy with what they get, and not try to angle for more.

    BECAUSE THEY DESERVE NO MORE.
    badcat, Titaniumgiant and EspHack like this.
    11-12-2015 12:45 PM
  2. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The carriers need to be forced out. Totally.

    They have NO BUSINESS in anything that happens on my phone. I pay them to transmit data, and that's all. They need to LEARN THEIR PLACE and then learn to be happy with what they get, and not try to angle for more.

    BECAUSE THEY DESERVE NO MORE.
    You're mostly correct but you need to understand that the carrier is responsible for providing service to millions of other users. If your device has the potential to disrupt service, they have a right to protect their interests as well.
    libra89 and Guytronic like this.
    11-12-2015 01:11 PM
  3. Mafiatounes's Avatar
    W10M looks nice and works nice on my 930, UI/UX can be polished a bit more with future updates like on the desktop/tablet version. W10(M) will be an OS in progress and will see enhancements based on feedback, unlike say W7 for instance. People talking about how buggy an insider build is or that it is not complete should stay away from the insider program simple as that.
    11-12-2015 01:11 PM
  4. anon(9410778)'s Avatar
    W10M looks nice and works nice on my 930, UI/UX can be polished a bit more with future updates like on the desktop/tablet version. W10(M) will be an OS in progress and will see enhancements based on feedback, unlike say W7 for instance. People talking about how buggy an insider build is or that it is not complete should stay away from the insider program simple as that.
    Treating it as though its a finished OS and thinking of it as such is wrong. Constructive criticism is the whole point of the program and without them expressing their voices it would allow the OS to stagnate.
    11-12-2015 02:18 PM
  5. michail71's Avatar
    W10M looks nice and works nice on my 930, UI/UX can be polished a bit more with future updates like on the desktop/tablet version. W10(M) will be an OS in progress and will see enhancements based on feedback, unlike say W7 for instance. People talking about how buggy an insider build is or that it is not complete should stay away from the insider program simple as that.
    For most of the regulars I don't think the complaints are about the bugs. We expect bugs. It's about the loss of synergy, loss of features, UI inconsistency and usability problems.
    11-12-2015 02:18 PM
  6. Scottie10014's Avatar
    I think it could still be honed, but after doing a hard reset on my 920, W10 is working like a champ. I missed the unified inbox (which they should bring back), but other than that, I think it's releasable.
    11-12-2015 02:19 PM
  7. vtm's Avatar
    When i first saw the new mail client I was shocked, it was unusable. I couldn't believe that they changed something so perfect into something that doesn't come close to usable. Very sad!
    Elitewolf and Kram Sacul like this.
    11-12-2015 02:23 PM
  8. vtm's Avatar
    I've been using iPhone 6 and then 6 Plus since the day it arrived and it's been sort of work in progress as well. Apps crashing, slower and slower with each update and various other mysterious issues. It aint perfect either, yes the flash light works consistently, but who buys a phone for it's flashlight capability :)))))
    congthanhgiong likes this.
    11-12-2015 02:32 PM
  9. richv77's Avatar
    I have been using Windows phones since they first came out. What really irks me about this platform is that very popular apps like Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks are still Not in the Store. I realize the important apps like the Office suite are there but I don't use my phones for Business. I hope Microsoft does not try and to focus their efforts solely on Business users like Blackberry did.

    Also MS needs to clean up the Store. For example search for Starbucks and you will see a Starbucks New app which as one user already noted in the Reviews - It's useless. It wants you to log in to Facebook. I uninstalled it immediately.

    So far I am really liking W10M (10581).

    Thanks for your comments.

    -Rich
    11-12-2015 03:16 PM
  10. Mafiatounes's Avatar
    Treating it as though its a finished OS and thinking of it as such is wrong. Constructive criticism is the whole point of the program and without them expressing their voices it would allow the OS to stagnate.
    Thats my point exactly insiders are meant to give feedback, but to bash the OS now when it is not even rtm is a bit to soon. Even if the UI/UX is inconsistent or not in synergy we as insiders could still give feedback and the OS could change after a couple of months.
    badcat likes this.
    11-12-2015 03:17 PM
  11. WyrdWolf's Avatar
    Well met,
    I can mostly understand both sides of the argument. MS is trying to put out an evolutionary (both W10 as a whole and the future evolution of the ecosystem) and we want it to be perfect. But it all boils down to this: Are you going to update/buy W10M? yes? then give useful feedback. No? then quit ******** about an OS you are not planning on using. Just my 2 cents.
    11-12-2015 05:06 PM
  12. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Nothing stopped devs implementing whatever UI they wanted on WP8. Netflix is a good example of an app that has a totally different UI to the native WP one that is consistent across devices. And even Microsoft's own Smartglass app has a hamburger menu even though it runs on WP8 and the same UI was included in the MS Health app. So the UI by itself shouldn't have been a barrier to porting apps but rather the extra work required to port the code itself. Now that MS has introduced their bridges feature devs can port their apps without MS having had to gut the UI and UX of the OS to suit those apps. And with no real sign that apps will be ported in any significant number it seems it was all for nothing anyway.
    Exactly. Making it easier to port Android and iOS apps to Windows is a desperate but good idea. I just can't wrap my head at MS thinking that turning their sleek sexy and stylish OS into a museum of bad design to try to fit in with the crappy Android and iOS apps was a good idea. Not only do you risk upsetting a good chunk of your small loyal and dedicated user base who came to the platform in the first place because it was unique but you also cheapen your own OS by making it look and function like a wannabe clone of the competition. Basically an Android/iOS hybrid with live tiles which is not far from W10M is now.
    theefman likes this.
    11-12-2015 05:11 PM
  13. Saldatoccio's Avatar
    For most of the regulars I don't think the complaints are about the bugs. We expect bugs. It's about the loss of synergy, loss of features, UI inconsistency and usability problems.
    I fully agree! I was involved in the Insider programs for both W10 and W10M from day 1 and I gave a lot of feedback about bugs and potential improvements.
    W10M obviously improved from the initial mess, but it's STILL a mess: features available in WP8.1 are not available in W10M, the UI is so inconsistent and the OS is still buggy.

    My daily driver will stay on WP8.1 for a long time... I do not intend to frequently update my main phone only to fix things that should be working/available when W10M will reach RTM.
    11-12-2015 05:43 PM
  14. rhapdog's Avatar
    Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks are still Not in the Store.
    I'm okay with that personally. I make my own coffee and I don't eat donuts. I'm allergic to yeast. Yeah, I have to eat unleavened bread.

    It's all good. An app from my bank would be nice, but I can live without it. My wife makes the runs to the bank for the deposits, so that's convenient, too. (Well, convenient for me, not the wife.)

    I just wish the PC Windows 10 had the text input for the on-screen keyboard that W10M has. That to me is the most convenient thing. I want to be able to speak everywhere I can type on my laptop. Why is it not on the PC yet? Sorry, off-topic. I'll shut up. ;)
    11-12-2015 05:50 PM
  15. Prince Pusey's Avatar
    Maybe I didn't express myself correctly. I still think Windows mobile (desktop there can't be any doubt) is the FAR superior operating system. For various reasons you all know. Not only is it the CURRENT best OS but also their vision for the FUTURE is superior and best thought out.

    Also one must not forget that 10 mobile is yet another reboot. This time they WILL make it right because they have a master plan (UWP+ WAAS). This time they not only want to create a good and productive mobile OS, they also want to create a robust and future proof infrastructure beneath it. So from now on Windows (mobile) will flourish. This is why the platform will take off now. There are so many people just waiting to ditch their terrible, unreliable and overpowered Android phones and their incredibly boring iOS devices for something more productive and robust.

    Obviously a lot of things are still missing or things are not aligned properly but the core purpose and functions are usable and inconsistencies in the UI are not necessarily realized by the average consumer. Also, THIS is why we have the insider program! WE can shape this OS to a certain extent. This is the point from where everything else builds (pun intended) upon.

    Meanwhile look at iOS users. They tend to be more interesting than Android users because they care a lot and identify with the philosophy of Apple to fullest, even more than some of us do with Windows. If Apple would downgrade iCloud there would be no uprisal or protest. Never. There is always a legit reason for Apple to take decisions. Do NOT question this as a faithful iSheep!

    Well look at Apple's strategy. It is the exact opposite of the ONE Windows pursues. Creating more and more small OS's (latest example TVos) and splitting their eco system into a thousand pieces instead of aligning it. It may have certain advantages in the short term (TVos for example can evolve faster when it is is own OS) but in the long term Windows will take the lead. The UWP is just too tempting for developers. In three years from now the Windows store WILL have the better and more productive apps and Apple's store will still have the newest indie games and lifestyle/trend apps. The average 13 year old will STILL want the newest iPhone. The average over-20-year-old will not. Apple's devices will broaden it's Justin Bieber type of fan base where the age average sits at around 15-16sh. And that's being nice. At some point Apple's operating system WILL have to go universal if they don't want their OSX Store to just sit there and die. IF they DO go down that path, which they will have to also because of more efficient resource management, I would bet on their unified system being more iOS like than OSX like. 80% percent of their revenue comes from the iPhone and in the end OSX is also primarily for internet browsing and media consumption.

    By then though, Windows will have established their Operating System and the eco system around it to the point where it will be impossible to catch up. Big names will be present in the store, the bridges will be used to port existing apps and the go to place for any program will... be the windows store.

    To iPhone users saying their "iOS device just works" personally I would say "Yes. Your iPhone works. As it has always done in its very simplistic pitiful existence. It is essentially an app drawer with a lockscreen on top of it. Congratulations!" A door also "just works". That doesn't mean a portal would be way cooler! ;)

    P.S I love my iPod because "It just works".....most of the time
    Trust me on this, if windows ever have as much apps as any android or iphone, people would have switch over instantly!
    11-12-2015 06:37 PM
  16. SonOfDad's Avatar
    The carriers need to be forced out. Totally.

    They have NO BUSINESS in anything that happens on my phone.
    You shouldn't even purchase a phone through a carrier, their job is that of service only. I don't go to my ISP if I need a new PC and I sure as hell wouldn't wait for them to approve any updates.
    KimRM and EspHack like this.
    11-12-2015 06:56 PM
  17. rhapdog's Avatar
    You shouldn't even purchase a phone through a carrier, their job is that of service only. I don't go to my ISP if I need a new PC and I sure as hell wouldn't wait for them to approve any updates.
    Exactly why I won't use a carrier that wants to charge me extra for tethering. It's my data. I'm paying for it. You want me to pay extra to use the same amount because it's being tethered to a device I bought somewhere else, from a phone I bought somewhere else?

    You can buy a manufacturer unlocked phone, and there are carriers in the US that will allow you to use that phone on your network, then have the nerve to want to charge you extra to use your data plan for tethering to your laptop. You aren't using more data. You aren't using the data faster. Same speed, same amount of data, but because of how I use it with my own devices they want to charge extra? Nope. Time for a switch.
    920Walker likes this.
    11-12-2015 07:57 PM
  18. SonOfDad's Avatar


    EVERY GOD DAMN TIME! So 35 minutes later having to tap retry for each app individually and several times Onedrive, Onenote and Photos had updated (Glance has been sitting on failed since 10581 was installed). Yeah this thing is REALLY ready to be rolled out to the masses!
    11-12-2015 10:02 PM
  19. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    http://s27.postimg.org/3oqp1kohb/wp_...51113_0001.jpg

    EVERY GOD DAMN TIME! So 35 minutes later having to tap retry for each app individually and several times Onedrive, Onenote and Photos had updated (Glance has been sitting on failed since 10581 was installed). Yeah this thing is REALLY ready to be rolled out to the masses!
    Don't confuse the masses of 950 buyers with the masses of people with hundreds of models of Windows Phones and almost infinite combinations of apps, historys of use, etc.. It could easily be ready for 950s but not for everyone else.
    11-12-2015 10:10 PM
  20. 7a2eer's Avatar
    This is getting dull now. Every damned thread is the same, comments are all the same etc..

    Be thankful we got an update. Many droid users get dropped after 12 months.

    Finally, it's free. It's cost millions to develop win 10 in it's various guises, and they give it away to pretty much anyone.

    I understand people's frustrations, I do. I've got 581 on 4 devices, and few issues are duplicated. There will be issues until device specific firmware is included.

    I just don't understand the constant bemoaning. Are you reporting these concerns back to MSFT. It smacks of a load of magpies wanting the shiniest objects, only to moan when it isn't shiny at all.

    Rather than give up my phone, I think I'll give up the boards....
    When you get tired of W10M you better think twice about making a thread about it :P

    I think the best example of Android (and WinMo) is the HTC HD2 (2009) [ Snapdragon S1, 400x800, 448MB RAM ]
    - Has builds for Android 1.6 - 5.0.2
    - Has builds for Windows Mobile 6.5
    - Has builds for Windows Phone 7.8
    - Has experimental ports of MeeGo
    - ........................................................................
    - Has experimental ports of Windows Phone 8

    Android is not just about the OS, it is about the community that follows it. Sure Microsoft lets us test builds, but we're a bit helpless in comparison. We simply do not have the freedom to fix these problems ourselves, no matter how trivial they are. These sorts of threads are just us -- the community venting our frustration. Stop being happy and get frustrated with us :P
    11-12-2015 10:21 PM
  21. houkoholic's Avatar
    The community doesn't actually "fix" anything though - more like putting bandaid over a lost limb.

    Disclaimer: I was very deep into custom ROMs on Android and testing out different builds hoping them to "fix issues" that were present out of box, and no, not wanting to go back there ever again.
    11-12-2015 10:28 PM
  22. SonOfDad's Avatar
    It could easily be ready for 950s but not for everyone else.
    Lets look at things; they released the insider preview for existing phones, not the non released 950 months ago. Are they releasing an OS that doesn't work properly for free in the hopes people will run out and purchase a new phone in the hopes it can download apps correctly? And these aren't "infinite combinations of apps" they are Microsoft's own apps installed on a device which was reset after upgrading to 10581.

    "ONE Windows, now working correctly on ONE device"
    11-12-2015 10:54 PM
  23. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Lets look at things; they released the insider preview for existing phones, not the non released 950 months ago. Are they releasing an OS that doesn't work properly for free in the hopes people will run out and purchase a new phone in the hopes it can download apps correctly? And these aren't "infinite combinations of apps" they are Microsoft's own apps installed on a device which was reset after upgrading to 10581.

    "ONE Windows, now working correctly on ONE device"
    The insider program has two objectives (at least). One is working out bugs for all the phones already in existence that were designed BEFORE much was known about WM10. Another is working out bugs that hit old and new phones alike. Since WE don't have 950s we don't know for a fact what category the glitches we see fall into. Only the MS employees testing 950s know that. And we don't know how many problems with 950s still exist and it makes all the sense in the world for Microsoft to make those a higher priority since they are the ones that will hold up the 950s. Delaying the 950s is a lot worse than delaying WM10 updates to older phones.
    11-12-2015 11:03 PM
  24. Ivan05il's Avatar
    Judging by the speed or the lack thereof with which they are ironing out the bugs in mobile and desktop it means RTM will still contain some easy to find bugs. And I hate that I as a user am given this construction site instead of a polished system. My idea of a continuously evolving system is that I am spared the transitions full of bugs, that's what Insider builds are for. And it's one thing creating a bug today and fixing it tomorrow for a desktop and completely different for a phone where installing an update is a bit of a PITA. Not everything is a component swappable via marketplace. Some bugs will still need a classical update which involves the phone going offline for a relatively long time. And in my case a fridge, too.
    11-13-2015 12:31 AM
  25. Slovenix's Avatar
    Judging by the speed or the lack thereof with which they are ironing out the bugs in mobile and desktop it means RTM will still contain some easy to find bugs. And I hate that I as a user am given this construction site instead of a polished system. My idea of a continuously evolving system is that I am spared the transitions full of bugs, that's what Insider builds are for. And it's one thing creating a bug today and fixing it tomorrow for a desktop and completely different for a phone where installing an update is a bit of a PITA. Not everything is a component swappable via marketplace. Some bugs will still need a classical update which involves the phone going offline for a relatively long time. And in my case a fridge, too.
    This concerns me too.

    Its not that it knocks me off as an Insider, I know there are bugs and I know that they are normal and will be fixed.

    Its about consumers with lack of knowledge or care about how the OS works, and the only thing matters is first impression.
    Rafael Yousuf and aximtreo like this.
    11-13-2015 01:30 AM
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