12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. SonOfDad's Avatar
    Maybe Apple and Google send the previews out at later stages in development, I don't know. I just know that they work a lot better than Microsoft's.
    I used the pre-release of WP81.1 and 8.1 update 1 without one issue. Going back further I made extensive use off 2000, XP and 7 in beta forms. The problem is Windows 10, it simply doesn't work well whether it's prerelease, release, "patched release", whatever they want to dub it.
    theefman and tgp like this.
    11-14-2015 10:44 PM
  2. SonOfDad's Avatar
    I don't know about that. Aside from the lack of apps I was happy with 8/8.1 running on Nokia hardware.
    THIS! WP has been great for the most part for me. I've especially loved watching work mates get new phones over the years and spend hours fiddling to get them going then telling them "I just punch in my Microsoft account and the rest sorts itself out, like saying to an iFan "it just works" :)
    libra89 and Kram Sacul like this.
    11-14-2015 10:49 PM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    I used the pre-release of WP81.1 and 8.1 update 1 without one issue. Going back further I made extensive use off 2000, XP and 7 in beta forms. The problem is Windows 10, it simply doesn't work well either whether is prerelease, release, "patched release", whatever they want to dub it.
    I didn't use Microsoft's previews/betas much before the Insider program started for WP. I didn't have much trouble with WP8 iterations, but I had plenty of issues with W10 and W10M. For me, both of these were not usable as daily drivers. I used them only on extra devices I didn't have to rely on.
    11-14-2015 10:50 PM
  4. elindalyne's Avatar
    Pre-release WP8/8.1 are entirely different beasts than the W10M insider program.... Those were nearly finished versions of the OS released for developers. W10M insider actually got you into real OS development. We're actually getting builds as they're coming out rather than waiting months between versions.

    The beta versions of the desktop OS's you're mentioning don't come close what the Insider Program actually is either. Pretty much all of the OS iterations you mentioned came on CD's/DVD's... You're talking about a few months of lead time between when the time the build went off to the stamper to the time it actually arrived at your house. Bugs at that point would have more time to be squashed and patches made.

    If a bug wasn't found before the beta hit, it would be months before a patch could get out to beta users. Feedback someone might have about a feature would was more likely to be ignored because by the time the team got it, they would be a few months ahead of where they were when the beta OS shipped.

    The Insider program in place now gives Microsoft the ability to test the OS more thoroughly than before by getting more people onto it and allows them to also react to feedback and bugs in a much faster manner. There isn't months worth of work between releases and it's easier to unravel code that's somewhat fresh than something than hasn't been touched in months or years.

    The current build is also very stable and performs very well even on low end hardware. You need to realize that until the stuff actually goes RTM, you're not getting a stable product and should not expect it to be so.
    StevoPhilo and Krystianpants like this.
    11-14-2015 11:16 PM
  5. rkrams's Avatar
    The key reason to use WP for me atleast is

    1. Stability
    2.Performance over time without me having to stream line things, (all droids get slower over time even the legendary nexuses)
    3.This is more of a personal thing but i like the UI WP 8/8.1 has(still havnt tried WP10 ) I dont think either droid or Iphone have this kind of at an glance UI that gives access to info as well as apps on the go! Ubuntu phones are the closest to WP in terms of an interactive UI but they are still far behind
    4.Gives me a unique option other than the common droids and iphones
    5.The APPS i need are mostly available through official or third party ones.. but this is most likely to always be the Achilles heel for WP

    If any of the above mentioned is going to be affected in the coming WP10 it might be an deal breaker for me, i use WP because to borrow apple quote it just works and hardly requires any maintenance! Its a great replacement for BB phones.

    As long as WP10 doesn't affect performance, as well as stable UI without glitches i would be more than glad to get one without worrying to much about app ecosystem!

    Hope they get it right! Cant say im really happy with MS as they seem to be jumping from one fiasco to other SB launch glitch, one-drive storage reduction etc.! While some may say onedrive is hardly related to WP, but its MS as a whole we want to trust and invest in more than just the product so it matters!
    11-14-2015 11:25 PM
  6. SonOfDad's Avatar
    Pre-release WP8/8.1 are entirely different beasts than the W10M insider program.... Those were nearly finished versions of the OS released for developers.
    As opposed to the latest build of mobile which is due for public release in around a month. Nice try though.
    11-15-2015 12:12 AM
  7. elindalyne's Avatar
    The latest build is very fast and stable.... so there's "Nice try though." about it.

    We're also going into new territory in terms of release cadence. We've already seen a big W10 desktop release only a few months after the RTM, expect the same with W10M. Combine that with the fact nearly the entire OS can be updated modularly via the store and we're talking apples and oranges between W10M and WP 8/8.1.
    Last edited by elindalyne; 11-15-2015 at 09:17 AM.
    11-15-2015 12:15 AM
  8. SonOfDad's Avatar
    One hour forty-two minutes as pictured to update default apps on a reset 930 that screams well oiled machine. Do you really think the general public is going to go along with a "new OS we're working on it, just give us some time" line from MS? You want to talk "apples and oranges" fine 8.1 was a delicious juicy orange while 10 is a brown apple that's been siting out in the sun far to long.

    11-15-2015 12:36 AM
  9. Prince Pusey's Avatar
    One hour forty-two minutes as pictured to update default apps on a reset 930 that screams well oiled machine. Do you really think the general public is going to go along with a "new OS we're working on it, just give us some time" line from MS? You want to talk "apples and oranges" fine 8.1 was a delicious juicy orange while 10 is a brown apple that's been siting out in the sun far to long.

    http://s4.postimg.org/44319ib15/wp_ss_20151031_0004.jpg
    so true, it has become very annoying
    11-15-2015 07:06 AM
  10. 920Walker's Avatar
    One hour forty-two minutes as pictured to update default apps on a reset 930 that screams well oiled machine. Do you really think the general public is going to go along with a "new OS we're working on it, just give us some time" line from MS? You want to talk "apples and oranges" fine 8.1 was a delicious juicy orange while 10 is a brown apple that's been siting out in the sun far to long.

    http://s4.postimg.org/44319ib15/wp_ss_20151031_0004.jpg
    How often do the vast majority of smartphone users reset their phones? Never. I never did in 8 or 8.1; not until becoming a W10M insider. Upgrade and be done until the next major upgrade one or two years down the road. The quantity of installed apps and quality of wifi connection will have a large impact.
    11-15-2015 07:21 AM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I can deal with a non-removable battery if it's sufficient for a a day's worth of hard use. But the lack of external storage is inexcusable. Unfortunately, Nokia isn't the only one who feels this way. Even the Note series is moving away from SD cards..
    Sent from HP TouchPad on webOS
    libra89 likes this.
    11-15-2015 11:51 AM
  12. seb_r's Avatar
    jeez, the vibe in this thread is making me reconsider spending $60 on a 640 to check out Windows 10.
    Well, reconsider it by the time W10M is "official" on the 640 and you (still) got any interest / need for it.
    But right now with the insider builds it is a waste of money. Also I do not think we will see any mobile OS after the W10M debacle from MSFT anymore. So be prepared to like what you get a the time you buy it.
    11-15-2015 12:15 PM
  13. EspHack's Avatar
    well this thread is by now confirmed to be true I think, they haven't released anything so it means it is indeed not ready contrary to what they said earlier :P
    11-15-2015 12:22 PM
  14. seb_r's Avatar
    It would have been a big suprprise if MSFT release something substantial - if you judge by the quantity and quality of the mobile builds over the past months. And delay after delay up to the point where even the most loyal WP users got fed up.
    But who knows what means "ready" for MSFT. I expect a polished build with at least the most serious bugs ironed out by the end Q1/2016 and the vague promise to "fix things later". 950/XL likely going to ship with a regular build; keep in mind if these phones really supposed to reach the customers by the end of the month they already have their software and currently being on the road.
    11-15-2015 01:35 PM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    jeez, the vibe in this thread is making me reconsider spending $60 on a 640 to check out Windows 10.
    Don't. Do your own thing and arrive at your own conclusions. Tune out the noise and know we're here to help.

    BTW, love your avatar and yes, it's all about The U.
    badcat and libra89 like this.
    11-15-2015 03:38 PM
  16. elindalyne's Avatar
    jeez, the vibe in this thread is making me reconsider spending $60 on a 640 to check out Windows 10.
    You can get it a 640 for $30 on black friday if you're looking for more incentive... Seriously though, I purchased a 640 for the express reason to test out W10M and have basically retired my 920 since then.
    11-15-2015 04:06 PM
  17. Krystianpants's Avatar
    How often do the vast majority of smartphone users reset their phones? Never. I never did in 8 or 8.1; not until becoming a W10M insider. Upgrade and be done until the next major upgrade one or two years down the road. The quantity of installed apps and quality of wifi connection will have a large impact.
    The resetting was the result of running alpha software that wasn't properly migrating stuff. Makes perfect sense. Latest build I updated from 8.1 smoothly, no resets and have been running it perfectly. In fact the main goal of the upgrade is to get it from 8.1 to the new version. This is what non insiders will experience. The latest rtm build I'm sure makes it even better. That's where all the focus should be. So if that doesn't make sense to you, you probably shouldn't be an insider.
    11-15-2015 04:17 PM
  18. Krystianpants's Avatar
    One hour forty-two minutes as pictured to update default apps on a reset 930 that screams well oiled machine. Do you really think the general public is going to go along with a "new OS we're working on it, just give us some time" line from MS? You want to talk "apples and oranges" fine 8.1 was a delicious juicy orange while 10 is a brown apple that's been siting out in the sun far to long.

    http://s4.postimg.org/44319ib15/wp_ss_20151031_0004.jpg
    Problem was really the store app. But the issue is that it is part of the update, so you don't get the speed and scheduling updates till it updates. What I always did was pause all and do one at a time. It was super quick.

    My guess is the RTM will come with the improved store app already packaged.
    11-15-2015 04:23 PM
  19. SonOfDad's Avatar
    Problem was really the store app. But the issue is that it is part of the update
    Nope still extremely sluggish to both start an app download and perform it. I downloaded Shazam yesterday.
    11-15-2015 04:28 PM
  20. 920Walker's Avatar
    The resetting was the result of running alpha software that wasn't properly migrating stuff. Makes perfect sense. Latest build I updated from 8.1 smoothly, no resets and have been running it perfectly. In fact the main goal of the upgrade is to get it from 8.1 to the new version. This is what non insiders will experience. The latest rtm build I'm sure makes it even better. That's where all the focus should be. So if that doesn't make sense to you, you probably shouldn't be an insider.
    I know why hard resets were required and expected them. They won't be necessary for the typical upgrade process. As an insider, an alpha tester, a beta tester of any product quirks and deficiencies are expected. In the case of W10 insider program this was all spelled out in the terms and conditions.
    11-15-2015 04:38 PM
  21. Durishin's Avatar
    I simply don't understand what the hell the Hamburger is doing. Sometimes on the upper right. Sometimes on the upper left. It just takes screen real estate and gives options for things that could - just as easily - be under the screen-space efficient ellipsis.
    Kram Sacul, JohnStrk and seq1 like this.
    11-15-2015 04:48 PM
  22. Federico Turban's Avatar
    But who knows what means "ready" for MSFT. I expect a polished build with at least the most serious bugs ironed out by the end Q1/2016 and the vague promise to "fix things later". 950/XL likely going to ship with a regular build; keep in mind if these phones really supposed to reach the customers by the end of the month they already have their software and currently being on the road.
    I'm believe there is going to be the now classical "Day 0 Update" to a newer build.

    On the other hand, there is a lot of "Team Battle" around here. There are some with Build 10581 and are happy as hell about it, saying it's super smooth and all. And the other side of the battlefield, some with Build 10581 and are really really upset about it. That should say something, I mean, even if it is a "Beta", it's so close to launch day that it's incredible that those Build are workind so different from one device to another, even in the same device model; There are some with the infamouse Lumia 1020 with a magic build and amazing performance, and others with the same Lumia 1020 with a cursed build and poor-close to bad as anything bad you could think performance. That should not be happening right now. At least not so close to launch day.
    11-15-2015 04:54 PM
  23. Serpentbane's Avatar
    I followed the IP fast ring on my 920 and I saw lots of different results depending on Choices I made. There were also issies With certain apps, like the cool Lock screen app I dont remember the name of. Also, following the update path cuold have some unfavourable results. And the just resetting the phone could have different effects on the same build than doing a full restore of WP8.1 and starting directly on the lates build. Also, choosing not to start from existing backup worked Wonders on the latest build I have on my test 920. Its super fluid, snappy and fast. And I have not updated in the last month.

    Being part of the IP program is dealing With these issues and Reporting to MS, not making threads online about the problems you have. We can all do that when the "final" release is ready.

    And, if you complain about lack of apps, do you think ranting online will make ppl buy Windows Phones? To bad if they deside not to because they read (bad things) about the OS that turns out not to be valid by the time the OS releases to the Public.

    Also, not all Phones are getting it at the same time. It could be they are aware of the remaining issues on some of the models.

    Also, Close to release does not translate to no updates to the final build.
    Last edited by xandros9; 11-15-2015 at 06:43 PM. Reason: minor sanitizing
    M7H likes this.
    11-15-2015 05:38 PM
  24. seb_r's Avatar
    On the other hand, there is a lot of "Team Battle" around here.
    Not really a battle, just an exchange of personal experiences.

    There are some with Build 10581 and are happy as hell about it, saying it's super smooth and all.
    I would say those people have a very very limited usage scenario. They not even (want to) acknowledge those kind of bugs really affects every device, like the edge-keyboard-bug. Lots of them also not allow themselves (or others) to criticise "their" phone/OS. I have no problem to admit if something i decided to go for was a wrong decision or not makes me as happy as it should be.

    And the other side of the battlefield, some with Build 10581 and are really really upset about it.
    That is true, especially regarding the slow progress of the builds compared to desktopversion.

    That should say something, I mean, even if it is a "Beta", it's so close to launch day that it's incredible that those Build are workind so different from one device to another, even in the same device model;
    As I outlined above it comes to the usage scenario - for sure you won't have trouble with a feature/app/function that you not use.

    There are some with the infamouse Lumia 1020 with a magic build and amazing performance, and others with the same Lumia 1020 with a cursed build and poor-close to bad as anything bad you could think performance.
    Many users have forced the insider builds on their daily driver and maybe did surrender to the situation while already forgotten how smooth and stable WP8.1 (despite the lack of features) really was if you compare it to the rough experience on W10M. I not talk about UI cosmetics only.

    That should not be happening right now. At least not so close to launch day.
    Well you describe the current situation very well so I am wondering how you can think of the launch day being so close? There is no official news about it and also W10M is far from that.

    Another question is what MSFT calls "RTM" status. At leaset for me I expect W10M to be RTM when it AT LEAST is equal in terms of stability, runtime, perfomance and functionality to WP8.1. Everything beyond that is optional and I am happy about it but it is not acceptable that with W10M functionality gets crippled compared to WP8.1 And that is the current status unfortunately.
    11-15-2015 05:47 PM
  25. Krystianpants's Avatar
    seb_r I always acknowledge the bugs I encounter. In fact, I had so many issues with previous builds that i definitely brought up. Could it be that it's a matter of different phone models or different apps installed during upgrade process which might have caused issues in the registry or database, whatever they use.

    On reddit most people report the latest build being awesome. So issues are not as common as you may think. If you experience issues it does not mean everyone else is.
    11-15-2015 06:21 PM
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