12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. colinkiama's Avatar
    I don't think anyone does especially MS. WP already has a better alternative with the ellipsis menu/app bar menu and they decided to shove a hamburger menu in almost every app because of some poorly thought out idea of making iOS and Android users more comfortable and for lazy devs to more easily port their apps to the OS. Guess how well that's working out.
    Stop thinking about it in such a negative way, think about it on a positive way. Because of the hamburger button, we have the new feature-filled office apps that work well. Hamburgers don't have to be used and most of the built in apps still use the ellipsis menu and pivots. When you think about it, is the implementation of the hamburger really they bad?

    Microsoft only use them where it's practical or there are limitations.
    oviedofreak82 and libra89 like this.
    11-16-2015 08:05 AM
  2. elindalyne's Avatar
    I said it in another thread but I'll say it again.

    Hamburger - A hamburger menu denotes navigation. If the screen you are on is going to change it should be a hamburger.
    Pivots - These can only be used if the all the pivot headings can be seen at all times.
    Ellipses - This literally means "More". If you've got a list and there are more options, use the ellipses.
    11-16-2015 08:16 AM
  3. FirstWatt's Avatar
    [...] Average consumer needs apps and games not office with continuum. Is buying another secondary device is only solution? NO, when you are targeting developing countries (NEXT MILLION) you should know that having two devices is costly affair . So people buy one device that has every thing they need. [...]
    Well, that seems a continuum use case, isn't it?
    You have a Lumia 950 (XL) phone, a monitor, keyboard and mouse, and a continuum dock.

    You can play games on phone
    Call on phone
    WhatsApp
    Facebook
    Instagram
    Skype

    If you want to write a long Mail, you can dock the phone and write it at the desk
    Or make some simple Excel Lists, or Word documents.
    Or read big pdf's.
    Satsumo and editguy like this.
    11-16-2015 08:32 AM
  4. Aeosgames's Avatar
    People say Continuum may not have use, but I find that this is not entirely true. I could definitely see myself having a workstation at home, setup and ready so that when I get home I can seat my phone there and browse the web, do work on Word, etc.
    editguy likes this.
    11-16-2015 09:53 AM
  5. charish putta's Avatar
    Yes it is useful, i'm not saying it isn't. But can it run on a low end Lumia devie like 550? Not every one can afford a 650$ phone. We can afford a decent PC for a cheaper price that does everything. It doesn't end with 650$ ryt, a 99$ doc, a monitor, a keyboard bla bla bla. So its not very sensible in terms of practicality. And when reaches countries like India it costs nearly 37,000-45,000 for a flagship Lumia and all those accessories would end up costing nearly 60,000. Which is not a particularly affordable price for most of the next million MSFT is trying to reach. A guy who is readu to spend that amount of money definitely has a lot of money and probably may be an iSHEEP
    Varun Rajan likes this.
    11-16-2015 10:01 AM
  6. Torontonian22's Avatar
    I believe the OS is ready for the newer phones since they must have been easier for Microsoft to optimise for and the older ones (S4 chips) will need more time). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    The 930 or the 1520 do not have a S4 chip and it's still a mess... so I don't see any correlations there.
    11-16-2015 10:50 AM
  7. Torontonian22's Avatar
    People say Continuum may not have use, but I find that this is not entirely true. I could definitely see myself having a workstation at home, setup and ready so that when I get home I can seat my phone there and browse the web, do work on Word, etc.
    Continuum is an impressive feature, no doubt about it. Now, when I'm home, I already have a powerful PC already hooked to my monitor, keyboard and mouse with wired internet. Why in the world would I want to dock my phone, unplug/replug my keyboard, mouse and monitor to do things I can already do on my computer with better performances and better apps (I don't think lightroom is available on WP, neither is chrome, photoshop or any of my games...).

    The only use case I see is for start-ups who need to save money. They could by a phone, a dock, monitor and keyboard and mouse. Continuum would allow the employees to be productive like on a pc while in the office and when on the go, they would only need to take their phone with them.

    Now, if they actually need a laptop when on-the-go, they won't actually carry their dock and all the pieces... which defeats the point of continuum in the first place if they can simply plug their laptops to their monitor...
    11-16-2015 11:03 AM
  8. speccy's Avatar
    W10M is still buggy, but no more buggy than Android devices that are supposedly running finished software (this is in my experience with my Nexus devices).
    editguy and Polychrome like this.
    11-16-2015 11:16 AM
  9. final_fantasy781's Avatar
    Continuum is an impressive feature, no doubt about it. Now, when I'm home, I already have a powerful PC already hooked to my monitor, keyboard and mouse with wired internet. Why in the world would I want to dock my phone, unplug/replug my keyboard, mouse and monitor to do things I can already do on my computer with better performances and better apps (I don't think lightroom is available on WP, neither is chrome, photoshop or any of my games...).

    The only use case I see is for start-ups who need to save money. They could by a phone, a dock, monitor and keyboard and mouse. Continuum would allow the employees to be productive like on a pc while in the office and when on the go, they would only need to take their phone with them.

    Now, if they actually need a laptop when on-the-go, they won't actually carry their dock and all the pieces... which defeats the point of continuum in the first place if they can simply plug their laptops to their monitor...
    I don't think it's entirely pointless. I had thought of a few ways the dock would come in pretty handy.

    I had went to a customer for tech support and the sales person didn't tell me I needed to bring a laptop with our software. I know, really dumb not to bring a laptop to show a new, potential customer our software. At that point, using a projector, a keyboard and mouse to show the customer at least a Power Point or a Webinar would have been very useful.

    Additionally, the software I run is a CAD software, which most likely won't run on a phone. A power point would have saved us, though.

    That was only one time and every since then I would bring a laptop no matter where I go, or if we show our software. The display dock has potential but it isn't for everyone. I noticed 950 XL purchasers will be able to get a display dock from the Microsoft store. While that's cool, I would be more excited if we could get either Band or Band 2 with purchase.
    editguy likes this.
    11-16-2015 12:58 PM
  10. john24ssj's Avatar
    I don't think it's entirely pointless. I had thought of a few ways the dock would come in pretty handy.

    I had went to a customer for tech support and the sales person didn't tell me I needed to bring a laptop with our software. I know, really dumb not to bring a laptop to show a new, potential customer our software. At that point, using a projector, a keyboard and mouse to show the customer at least a Power Point or a Webinar would have been very useful.

    Additionally, the software I run is a CAD software, which most likely won't run on a phone. A power point would have saved us, though.

    That was only one time and every since then I would bring a laptop no matter where I go, or if we show our software. The display dock has potential but it isn't for everyone. I noticed 950 XL purchasers will be able to get a display dock from the Microsoft store. While that's cool, I would be more excited if we could get either Band or Band 2 with purchase.
    That does sound cool and "technical" people will love this but this won't appeal to masses.

    Sadly to gain market WP needs to get "twitter/facebook/selfie" people :( Which is sad because WP is a great overall OS
    11-16-2015 02:10 PM
  11. Federico Turban's Avatar
    For the standalone point of the Continuum feature, that could make even more sensee with a not so expensive Tablet with full Windows 10 (I mean, there are out there some really nice and cheap Windows 8/10 Tablets with enough power and features to do things just right, and the same things you do on your pone, but with better apps, even the UWA are better on Windows 10 than on Windows 10 Mobile), just arrieve at home, plug it to a dock and BOOM!, you have a REAL full computer experience, really great! The Continuum idea on phones is pretty good, but it's of no use for people in emerging markets that can't really afford to buy a phone that expensive, they would like to buy a cheap Laptop and a cheap Smartphone and you are ready to go. I believe Continuum it's not going to be a real failure, but a lot of time is needed to really catch on the idea of having a Smartphone that can be also your Computer, but not your main Computer.

    Also, I believe the "Continuum" idea is more about the "Everything in the Cloud", in wich you do your things on the go with your Phone, arrieve at home, use your Tablet, Laptop, Desktop, and all your stuff is there, ready to be worked out, or watched or played or shared or wathever you do, but without the feeling of a natural border and the phisical shells that separate one device to another, but also, that idea it's going to take a while untill every corner in the world could do that withoud expending a lot of money on nice devices and expensive Internet Plans from their carriers.

    On the other side of this thread, Windows 10 Mobile has a lot of potential and future, but still looks unfinished. Try once to install one Build (don't remember the number) in my Lumia 625 (what an amazing phone) but it crashed on the instalation and need to use the Recovery Tool, Never tryed again (as it was my only phone), but really wanted to give feedback. So I only watched every other build out there and read the reviews of those and watched the Hand-Onds, and it's amazing inconsistent and weird that on some, let's say, Lumia 1520, it's working like a charm and in others don't. I say this before and gonna say if again, if they still has this inconsistence in performance on the devices they are targeting to bring the OS, the OS it's not ready, and it's amazing they got this situation with the launch day so close, and so close I mean to the launch of Lumia 950/950XL, those are gonna be the first devices to get the "RTM" Build of Windows 10 Mobile, and that is when I reffer to "Launch Day". If Windows 10 Mobile magically gain an amazing, but absurdly amazing performance consistence in the "RTM" Build, also a lot but a lot less bugs and everything working just fine, that would be pretty amazing for us all. I believe, us, the fans, the mayor concern right now it's that Windows 10 Mobile it's going to be good or bad. Windows 10 is good and it's getting a lot better, let's see if they can do the same with Windows 10 Mobile. I hope so, but it's kinda hard to have a lot of expectations on this.
    11-16-2015 02:39 PM
  12. albe231's Avatar
    I can come home and dock this to my TV and basically have an HTPC at that point. That's what I'm excited about.
    11-16-2015 04:05 PM
  13. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Stop thinking about it in such a negative way, think about it on a positive way. Because of the hamburger button, we have the new feature-filled office apps that work well. Hamburgers don't have to be used and most of the built in apps still use the ellipsis menu and pivots. When you think about it, is the implementation of the hamburger really they bad?

    Microsoft only use them where it's practical or there are limitations.
    They put one in the calculator app. lol

    Sorry but it's garbage and it's not even as well implemented as on Android because you can't swipe from the edge of the screen to open it. So it's a fail on top of poor UI design. How can any smart person with common sense defend that?

    The idea that WP and Windows apps suddenly need hamburger menus after all these years is grade-A BS of the highest order. No one ever said "I like WP but I wish there was a hard to reach menu in the upper left corner". Well, maybe someone at MS. They've been passing the crack pipe a lot recently..
    theefman, hprvez and uFlock like this.
    11-16-2015 05:03 PM
  14. colinkiama's Avatar
    They put one in the calculator app. lol

    Sorry but it's garbage and it's not even as well implemented as on Android because you can't swipe from the edge of the screen to open it. So it's a fail on top of poor UI design. How can any smart person with common sense defend that?

    The idea that WP and Windows apps suddenly need hamburger menus after all these years is grade-A BS of the highest order. No one ever said "I like WP but I wish there was a hard to reach menu in the upper left corner". Well, maybe someone at MS. They've been passing the crack pipe a lot recently..
    It is true, no one wants to stretch to reach the button but you have to admit, the menu itself was a really important addition. Just think about it, is it really practical to store all those new options in the ellipsis menu?

    The hamburger isn't garbage, reaching to the top of your screen to use it is.
    11-16-2015 05:40 PM
  15. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    It is true, no one wants to stretch to reach the button but you have to admit, the menu itself was a really important addition. Just think about it, is it really practical to store all those new options in the ellipsis menu?
    It's not. Maybe lazy devs that want to port their badly made iOS or Android apps (lol) but not for the user who actually has to interact with the UI. Again, no user asked for it to be added because there was a never a need for it. What "new options"? A settings page? They're usually in the app bar menu under... settings. Pretty easy.

    The hamburger isn't garbage, reaching to the top of your screen to use it is.
    Which makes it worse. So not only does it make the app look like a cheap mobile website it makes it function as one.

    Okay, no more hamburger talk. I'm getting hungry.
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    11-16-2015 05:58 PM
  16. Mark Richey's Avatar
    We are all insiders making these claims. 10581 is the first build to run almost flawlessly on my device. Because many of us are coming from WP7.x to WP8.x to Windows 10 Mobile, we know that the first iteration of WP we came to love/hate is dead and buried. And yet, I updated my preferences on Tweedium on my Tablet and I was suddenly confronted with the same experience when I first opened it again on my 930. This is what MS is aiming for and mail, maps, calendar and other items are the core of the next generation of Windows Mobile devices. Some are not working as they should. I want to toss my phone against the wall when mid-play my Groove Music suddenly tells me it "can't sign in." These are the things that should be no brainers. But it is nearly there.

    With the release of the phones from now through mid-December imminent. You bet the OS is RTM. The fact that we insiders do not yet have that in our hands is perhaps inexcusable, but someone pulling the phone out of the box on November 20 at their local AT&T WILL have the "final" version of the OS. We know that at least 10586 has been flighted and I would imagine there is another build not far behind. I am also waiting for potentially picking up the 950 unlocked. Why? Better processor, expandable storage, Windows Hello, ready for Continuum, hybrid cooling brought from the Surface team. Is my venerable 930 doing ok on this build? You bet. But I have been running these previews on my daily driver since July. I can easily judge how far it has come and my phone is like a new phone in many ways. Windows Camera has shown me not all improvements are only in UI.
    editguy, 920Walker and Alfred Yeap like this.
    11-16-2015 06:07 PM
  17. ombreman's Avatar
    It still needs a little polishing. MS should optimize and speed up OS a little - it still doesnt fly like 8.1. But with the latest build they did a large jump forward. Everything i use is working - there are still some glitches but i can live with it.
    11-16-2015 06:11 PM
  18. seb_r's Avatar
    You have 0 evidence to back up your statements. Please provide use cases where your experiences differ from mine and other people that feel the OS is ready to ship.
    Threads being filled with problems that not exist? On my 1520 with latest build just for example: keyboard bug in edge, no hey cortana, no glance settings, still many apps stuck in store / error, live tiles not updating sometimes, storage location setting messed up, random "loadin..." screen and many other things. Yes I did hard reset.

    To make a blanket statement that our level of usage is somehow lower than yours is insulting.
    Everybody has a different usage scenario and expectations from WP. For some the latest build does what for what they use the phone. If you take full advantage of everything what the phone has to offer things will be different.

    Are there a few lingering issues? Sure.
    There are not just "a few" there are tons of them.

    Are any of them show stoppers? No.
    Then I wonder why even MSFT has not pushed the button yet and roll it out if there are no show stoppers?!
    11-16-2015 06:36 PM
  19. jwspradlen's Avatar
    Threads being filled with problems that not exist? On my 1520 with latest build just for example: keyboard bug in edge, no hey cortana, no glance settings, still many apps stuck in store / error, live tiles not updating sometimes, storage location setting messed up, random "loadin..." screen and many other things. Yes I did hard reset.


    Everybody has a different usage scenario and expectations from WP. For some the latest build does what for what they use the phone. If you take full advantage of everything what the phone has to offer things will be different.


    There are not just "a few" there are tons of them.


    Then I wonder why even MSFT has not pushed the button yet and roll it out if there are no show stoppers?!
    I don't remember "Hey Cortana" being a promised feature in the preview build. Also, hopefully your doing your part in reporting the bugs you find to windows feedback so they can improve on what needs fixing. Keep in mind, this is still a preview build so some of the things you've mentioned might already be fixed in the RTM build.
    11-16-2015 07:01 PM
  20. elindalyne's Avatar
    Lets address this point by point -
    Threads being filled with problems that not exist? On my 1520 with latest build just for example: keyboard bug in edge, no hey cortana, no glance settings, still many apps stuck in store / error, live tiles not updating sometimes, storage location setting messed up, random "loadin..." screen and many other things. Yes I did hard reset.
    • Apps stuck in the store - Most of these apps are holdovers from Win 8.1. If you notice many of the apps aren't available in the store. Not an OS issue
    • Keyboard bug in edge - Please expand. The top voted keyboard issue in the feedback app is "keyboard edge doesn't go all the way to the edge". That doesn't seem like a show stopper to me. Pretty much every other bit of feedback is about asking for wordflow back.
    • Hey Cortana - That really sucks, but this issue isn't as widespread as you might think. Definitely not a top voted bug in the feedback app. Besides, there's evidence it's working for other 1520 users. The issue was also specifically mentioned as fixed in the latest build... You just need to make sure it was turned on. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...w-build-10581/
    • Glance settings - Are you referring to the fact that very few W10M apps support glance or that there are no settings? I see the settings fine and recognize the fact that the apps I used to use will eventually come back to glance.
    • LiveTiles not updating/loading issues - What part of debug copy and we phone home to Microsoft whenever you're on Wifi do you not understand. This will inevitably cause slowdowns.
    • Storage issues - Completely known issue and will be fixed. Who knows, maybe it's fixed in the next build. This is something I do expect to see fixed in the RTM.


    Everybody has a different usage scenario and expectations from WP. For some the latest build does what for what they use the phone. If you take full advantage of everything what the phone has to offer things will be different.
    Please describe your mythical use case scenario. I want to know what points you're hitting that I'm not.

    There are not just "a few" there are tons of them.
    List them. I've already responded to all the ones you've listed so far.

    Then I wonder why even MSFT has not pushed the button yet and roll it out if there are no show stoppers?!
    They just RTM'd it last week. The new Lumia's will be running the new builds. Expect even more changes and fixes by the time older devices roll out.
    11-16-2015 07:34 PM
  21. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    I said it in another thread but I'll say it again.

    Hamburger - A hamburger menu denotes navigation. If the screen you are on is going to change it should be a hamburger.
    Pivots - These can only be used if the all the pivot headings can be seen at all times.
    Ellipses - This literally means "More". If you've got a list and there are more options, use the ellipses.
    You can repeat it all you want but it's still redundant to have a hamburger/split view menu if you already have an ellipsis/app bar menu. It was dumb when they added it to the OneDrive app and it's dumb in W10M. If you need more options than the app bar menu allows it can be put in a separate settings page like it has been for years on WP. No need for an ugly menu icon in the worst possible place.

    b7-ek6rccaavr_5.jpg
    11-16-2015 07:40 PM
  22. elindalyne's Avatar
    You can repeat it all you want but it's still redundant to have a hamburger/split view menu if you already have an ellipsis/app bar menu. It was dumb when they added it to the OneDrive app and it's dumb in W10M. If you need more options than the app bar menu allows it can be put in a separate settings page like it has been for years on WP. No need for an ugly menu icon in the worst possible place.
    You may hate it, but I'm just pointing out design standards.
    11-16-2015 07:50 PM
  23. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    You may hate it, but I'm just pointing out design standards.
    What design standards? MS chucked out their own guidelines and it's painfully obvious in W10/W10M.
    aXross likes this.
    11-16-2015 08:05 PM
  24. elindalyne's Avatar
    Web design and app design standards worldwide... Hamburger buttons are quite prevalent out there.
    11-16-2015 08:07 PM
  25. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    You mean all the badly designed mobile apps and websites which are the bottom of the barrel in user friendliness. Yeah, not exactly the kind of standard you want to be emulated in a OS.

    "Windows 10 Mobile, because we gave up"
    theefman and nawfside_713 like this.
    11-16-2015 08:27 PM
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