12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. Steve Adams's Avatar
    I love the fact that the website compared a PRE RELEASE version of an operating system to a released one. Well android is in the same boat really. That OS is ALWAYS in a constant state of We are upgrading this or that. Apple is not, its exactly the same as it was in ios 1. Boring and juvenile.

    I am going to windows 10 via the insider program when the new update comes out on Thursday as I figure that's what AT&T is getting to bake in their crap with for our update. I was somewhat happy on 10166, I had good battery life, and smooth flow, some things too a little longer to open, and the camera was horrendous.

    I have been reading that these issues have been fixed now so I am ready to go.
    11-10-2015 04:42 AM
  2. Visa Declined's Avatar
    So from now on Windows (mobile) will flourish. This is why the platform will take off now. There are so many people just waiting to ditch their terrible, unreliable and overpowered Android phones and their incredibly boring iOS devices for something more productive and robust.
    Soo many people waiting to ditch their iPhones and Androids. Yeah right, and you know this how exactly? Have you interviewed millions of people and asked them their needs? People are pretty happy with their devices.

    but in the long term Windows will take the lead. The UWP is just too tempting for developers.
    I would really like to believe this, but I'm just not seeing the "too tempting for developers" part. I was expecting to see a bunch of developers on board by now, but it's not really happening.

    In three years from now the Windows store WILL have the better and more productive apps and Apple's store will still have the newest indie games and lifestyle/trend apps.
    I dunno dude, I think you may be overshooting here a little bit.

    The average 13 year old will STILL want the newest iPhone. The average over-20-year-old will not.
    You don't actually believe this do you?

    80% percent of their revenue comes from the iPhone and in the end OSX is also primarily for internet browsing and media consumption.
    You're leaving out all of the professional/non-professional music and film people who use nothing but Mac's, and wouldn't touch a Windows machine with a ten foot pole. Mac's have solidified their place in certain industries, but you're on a mission to downplay them here so...who am I to say? FYI I hate Mac's and would never own one.

    By then though, Windows will have established their Operating System and the eco system around it to the point where it will be impossible to catch up.
    There's no way you're talking about mobile here, are you seriously talking about mobile?


    Big names will be present in the store, the bridges will be used to port existing apps and the go to place for any program will... be the windows store.
    I dunno man, I like your enthusiasm though.


    To iPhone users saying their "iOS device just works" personally I would say "Yes. Your iPhone works. As it has always done in its very simplistic pitiful existence. It is essentially an app drawer with a lockscreen on top of it.
    Heh
    11-10-2015 06:03 AM
  3. SonOfDad's Avatar
    they have a master plan (UWP+ WAAS).

    Oh so that's why the store is currently overflowing with new apps........ The "master plan" is seriously flawed.
    mariusmuntean and Varun Rajan like this.
    11-10-2015 06:12 AM
  4. Hutzi's Avatar
    Oh so that's why the store is currently overflowing with new apps........ The "master plan" is seriously flawed.
    Apps take time to develop. Obviously the developers waited on how the new OS will be received before they go all out, I mean look at the Windows 8 store. That played out very well. Also Microsoft is promising all the developers these "magical" bridges. Why develop a complete new app now if you can port it easily and improve it from there on? Well the bridges are not out yet...
    11-10-2015 06:20 AM
  5. Slovenix's Avatar
    I don't think it's anywhere near ready for release. Camera app is still horrible compared to Lumia Camera, and there is no new features added which are already available on other smartphones.

    Why Camera? It's like the first think people ask about.

    Photos app doesn't even have a light thrtr.

    UI is a complete mess, Microsoft's own apps all follow some other design language so there is no consistency.

    Nothing special about the Lock screen

    Nothing new about Livetiles, groupings

    No custom keyboards as keyboard in my native language is still useless.

    Yada yada yada yada yada, could go on..
    11-10-2015 06:21 AM
  6. Slovenix's Avatar
    And let's not even start on stability and some random bugs which are so random that you don't even know why they occur. Hehe
    bulutsuzgece and adamyos like this.
    11-10-2015 06:23 AM
  7. Hutzi's Avatar
    Soo many people waiting to ditch their iPhones and Androids. Yeah right, and you know this how exactly? Have you interviewed millions of people and asked them their needs? People are pretty happy with their devices.
    I know this is wishful thinking and if it ever happens, it will take time. I'm talking about the OS being superior, not more widespread. Market share isn't everything. If you reach the people you want to reach, that's fine. It won't bring the newest indie game titles though...

    but in the long term Windows will take the lead. The UWP is just too tempting for developers.
    Apps take time to develop. Obviously the developers waited on how the new OS will be received before they go all out, I mean look at the Windows 8 store. That played out very well. Also Microsoft is promising all the developers these "magical" bridges. Why develop a complete new app now if you can port it easily and improve it from there on? Well the bridges are not out yet...

    You don't actually believe this do you?
    Ok, yeah this was a little over the top. What's so bad about a little exaggeration if you have a good point, then it's the above 30 year olds :D

    You're leaving out all of the professional/non-professional music and film people who use nothing but Mac's, and wouldn't touch a Windows machine with a ten foot pole. Mac's have solidified their place in certain industries, but you're on a mission to downplay them here so...who am I to say? FYI I hate Mac's and would never own one.
    I was hoping somebody would say this. Why exactly is the iMac (or the pathetic new MacPro) better for editing 4K? Because of the raw power one needs for this task? Oh, no wait the iMac is a laptop with a big screen. Damn it! They wouldn't touch a Windows machine because of preference. That's it. Because it LOOKS nicer and more hip. What are these certain industries you're talking about? I could think of some. Expensive private schools, top class layers, top notch private doctors etc. Pretty much any "industry" that want's to be on top or thinks it is. Why do all of these people use Mac? Because of Marketing, because of the apple logo.

    There's no way you're talking about mobile here, are you seriously talking about mobile?
    There is no REAL mobile anymore. Desktop and mobile share 96% percent in code (not verified yet). I'm talking about the OS as a whole. You, asking this question just makes sense because with this you admit you do not understand the essence of UWP (or I don't get it).
    11-10-2015 06:39 AM
  8. KimRM's Avatar
    Give it up with this tired BS excuse it was trotted out a month before Windows 10 went live and in the next month nothing changed.
    It's not an exuse for anything. Just sayin' you're heavy on the trigger when you're complaining about unfinished software. I'm sure that MS know about the stuff that's obviously not done yet. It's very normal to put off things until the very last befor releasing software. Some stuff is just added early without any intention of having it look or work that way when it all is done.

    You talk about Windows 10. I can remember Windows 10 being a total crap until nearly the end of the developement, and it's now the best and most innovative OS out there. This can be true for Windows 10 Mobile to. I'm not gonna judge it before it's even released officialy.
    hiya15 likes this.
    11-10-2015 06:41 AM
  9. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    It's not an exuse for anything. Just sayin' you're heavy on the trigger when you're complaining about unfinished software. I'm sure that MS know about the stuff that's obviously not done yet. It's very normal to put off things until the very last befor releasing software. Some stuff is just added early without any intention of having it look or work that way when it all is done.

    You talk about Windows 10. I can remember Windows 10 being a total crap until nearly the end of the developement, and it's now the best and most innovative OS out there. This can be true for Windows 10 Mobile to. I'm not gonna judge it before it's even released officialy.
    brah, u dont get it. W10M will RTM in 2 days. What kind of a miracle MS can do in 48 hours to make the UI more consistent ? to fix the many bugs? Like i said, MS has one chance to impress users with this new OS and their first impression would be through the UI. If the UI is a mess, OS wont appeal to many potential new users.
    11-10-2015 06:53 AM
  10. Skittle Milk's Avatar
    I will agree that the UI just seemed...cleaner before. It was it's simplicity and uniqueness that drew me to WP beginning with Mango. Now...I just dunno. I'm a huge Microsoft fan especially as far as PCs, tablets and Xbox are concerned...and WP used to be my favorite platform due to the fact that it "just worked" and had expandable storage. (Ironic that my current favorite daily driver, the Lumia 1020, does not.) But THEY might be overshooting a bit here. There are ugly grey accents when everything should be black. Ugly circle elements when everything else is square. Hell, Microsoft's LOGO is made up of four squares...simplicity itself. I'm starting to think maybe Microsoft doesn't know where they wanna go with mobile because if the last key note taught us anything, it's that Microsoft has new and inspiring focus when it comes to the PC and tablet space whereas mobile seems like a grudged burden or afterthought.

    Then there's something to be said for the fact that everything we've yet seen is PRERELEASE software. It's like knowingly taking biscuits out of the oven 10 mins before they're done cooking and then complaining that they're unfinished. Windows 10 was a wreck right up until just before its release and now most people sing it's praises when compared to 8.1. We can only hope the same happens for mobile.

    And if you really want to complain about how the biscuit you're willingly biting into is doughy and undercooked, just leave it in the oven until it's ready. After all, the baker isn't holding a gun to your head forcing you to eat it.
    11-10-2015 07:04 AM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    If the UI is a mess, OS wont appeal to many potential new users.
    We could turn that argument on its head by saying WP8.1 had the cleanest and most consistent UI of any mobile OS, yet it didn't manage to appeal to many potential users regardless. Doesn't that suggest that the UI is not the determining factor when it comes to consumer appeal?

    I completely agree with you that the UI is a mess, and I'd be surprised if it improved much by the time the first devices with W10M ship. I just doubt it's that important. I wish more people cared about this stuff too, but it's a minority of people who have brains that easily/automatically latch on to that kind of thing. Most just don't care, or don't even notice.

    There are basically three things that sell mobile phones and OSes to the masses:

    1. With this you can do X that you can't do on any other device
    3. With this you get the same thing for notably less money
    4. With this you'll look better or more successful than your peers.

    A consistent UI doesn't fit into any of the above categories. Even if a UI allows you to do something in a much quicker, slicker or easier way, that's not enough of a marketable and/or easily understood advantage to make a difference. The usual response will be: well I can do that too, I just need to press here/slide that/or fiddle that gizmo there... so what?

    To be successful with consumers, W10M needs one or more unique features that many people find highly desirable, those features must be easy to understand (fits into one of the above three categories) and they must be easily marketable on television. Without that, nothing else about W10M matters. Before MS offers something like that, things like the UI and OneDrive and everything else we fret about here doesn't matter.
    11-10-2015 07:19 AM
  12. Hutzi's Avatar
    If the UI is a mess, OS wont appeal to many potential new users.
    The current UI is a mess. That's a fact. It's unfinished. But the average new user will not leave the platform for a inconsistent UI. Neither on a theoretical level "This UI is such a mess! I regret this purchase!" because it's not that bad, nor on a practical level "This UI is such a Mess! I'm leaving!" because who really buys a new phone (or even returns it) for a inconsistent OS. The people that will suffer most under this are we. Thanks Microsoft!
    11-10-2015 07:37 AM
  13. Paul1266's Avatar
    We could turn that argument on its head by saying WP8.1 had the cleanest and most consistent UI of any mobile OS, yet it didn't manage to appeal to many potential users regardless. Doesn't that suggest that the UI is not the determining factor when it comes to consumer appeal?

    I completely agree with you that the UI is a mess, and I'd be surprised if it improved much by the time the first devices with W10M ship. I just doubt it's that important. I wish more people cared about this stuff too, but it's a minority of people who have brains that easily/automatically latch on to that kind of thing. Most just don't care, or don't even notice.

    There are basically three things that sell mobile phones and OSes to the masses:

    1. With this you can do X that you can't do on any other device
    3. With this you get the same thing for notably less money
    4. With this you'll look better or more successful than your peers.

    A consistent UI doesn't fit into any of the above categories. Even if a UI allows you to do something in a much quicker, slicker or easier way, that's not enough of a marketable and/or easily understood advantage to make a difference. The usual response will be: well I can do that too, I just need to press here/slide that/or fiddle that gizmo there... so what?

    To be successful with consumers, W10M needs one or more unique features that many people find highly desirable, those features must be easy to understand (fits into one of the above three categories) and they must be easily marketable on television. Without that, nothing else about W10M matters. Before MS offers something like that, things like the UI and OneDrive and everything else we fret about here doesn't matter.
    I don't even know where to start here...but I'll give it a go. Firstly, what happened to number 2. Your listed reasons for buying a handset don't tally with me but you confidently state that's what the masses look for. I certainly dont give a **** what anyone thinks about my phone. Couldn't care less if I tried. Not looking for unique functions either....just something that feels good in the hand, works as it should, isn't missing a key functionality and has a UI I find appealing for a reasonable price. Maybe you're a little status obsessed?
    920Walker and sarsau like this.
    11-10-2015 07:44 AM
  14. Slovenix's Avatar
    The current UI is a mess. That's a fact. It's unfinished. But the average new user will not leave the platform for a inconsistent UI. Neither on a theoretical level "This UI is such a mess! I regret this purchase!" because it's not that bad, nor on a practical level "This UI is such a Mess! I'm leaving!" because who really buys a new phone (or even returns it) for a inconsistent OS. The people that will suffer most under this are we. Thanks Microsoft!
    It is a mess.

    It's just, why suffer with horrible UI if every other phone can do the same thing and even more, therefore buys something diffrent next time.

    After 3 WPs (not that many for some on here) I wonder why do I turtore myself with this "Coming Soon" and "new apps" for two years and yada yada yada ...

    This is the last chance... And it sucks as I really am or was a hardcore Microsoft follower as I dont care anymore.
    mmTL and Varun Rajan like this.
    11-10-2015 07:46 AM
  15. Slovenix's Avatar
    As for Windows 10, it will probably always be my favourite. No comments there.
    11-10-2015 07:50 AM
  16. Hutzi's Avatar
    After 3 WPs (not that many for some on here) I wonder why do I turtore myself with this "Coming Soon" and "new apps" for two years and yada yada yada ...
    Fair point. If you don't want to wait now, just come back in a few years. You will. Your only choice would be iOS though which "just works" fine. If that's cool with you, OK. If you're all about UI consistency they perfected it. There is though, not a lot to perfect because the OS is very basic. Android I would consider a no go when talking about UI. Ask somebody "Tell me, what does the UI of Android look like?" They would most likely point to their Samsung TouchWiz interface. Well there's that.
    It's just, why suffer with horrible UI if every other phone can do the same thing and even more, therefore buys something diffrent next time.
    This though made me curious. Ok, I get it, you are suffering from the WM10's "horrible UI". But what other phone can do more natively than a WM10 device?
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    11-10-2015 07:56 AM
  17. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    The current UI is a mess. That's a fact. It's unfinished. But the average new user will not leave the platform for a inconsistent UI. Neither on a theoretical level "This UI is such a mess! I regret this purchase!" because it's not that bad, nor on a practical level "This UI is such a Mess! I'm leaving!" because who really buys a new phone (or even returns it) for a inconsistent OS. The people that will suffer most under this are we. Thanks Microsoft!
    True, maybe the average user wont notice, but do u really think new potential users would go for W10M if they read a review like this?:


    People who will be looking to buy new phones wont consider W10M if other reviewers post stuff like this, specially if this negativity remained after RTM.
    This is what i have been saying, i know MS will refine the UI, i know MS will give cortana a proper UI instead of the ugly bing mobile website they are using to show results, i know MS will do all that in future updates, but... that all will be too late if the RTM got reviewed like that.
    11-10-2015 07:57 AM
  18. theefman's Avatar
    MS has said that w10 will constantly "evolve" so those updates are mandatory :) There are no more windows versions after this (w7/w8/w8.1 etc). W10 is the last stop

    This oft repeated claim is really no excuse for releasing buggy, unstable software but it seems to be serving its purpose well as an excuse for the poor state Windows 10 is.
    HinoMusouka and adamyos like this.
    11-10-2015 08:06 AM
  19. Slovenix's Avatar
    Fair point. If you don't want to wait now, just come back in a few years. You will. Your only choice would be iOS though which "just works" fine. If that's cool with you, OK. If you're all about UI consistency they perfected it. There is though, not a lot to perfect because the OS is very basic. Android I would consider a no go when talking about UI. Ask somebody "Tell me, what does the UI of Android look like?" They would most likely point to their Samsung TouchWiz interface. Well there's that.

    This though made me curious. Ok, I get it, you are suffering from the WM10's "horrible UI". But what other phone can do more natively than a WM10 device?

    Im more an Android user, and with this I mean Nexus phones. Only thing that I dislike is developers not updating their apps with new design languages. But that is usually resolved quickly.

    And why Android, because it's more Windows like than Windows phone it self. Which means more features, like floating circle of Facebook chat, Skype video chat window staying on the screen while using other apps, Widgets, custom keyboards, Fully featured Apps indeed and customization.

    And talking about being productive, W10M fails to Android.

    And the thing is I always wished for a Windows phone that could do everything a desktop can. I think that will most likely happen in the future though.

    The only question here is "How will it look?" Tiles or Desktop with Windows start button that would open out Tiles lol :) I think it really looks amazing.
    11-10-2015 08:09 AM
  20. KimRM's Avatar
    brah, u dont get it. W10M will RTM in 2 days. What kind of a miracle MS can do in 48 hours to make the UI more consistent ? to fix the many bugs? Like i said, MS has one chance to impress users with this new OS and their first impression would be through the UI. If the UI is a mess, OS wont appeal to many potential new users.
    Like I said before; you have not yet tried or seen the OS that will, in your words, RTM in 2 days.

    Anyways. UI inconsitency is a matter of opinion. I don't think it needs to be more consistent to be a great OS. These are just minor things and is no big deal. No one that I showed WP8.1 liked the look of it, and they all like Win10Mobile, so something must be right with it. Even IOS 9 has bugs..
    11-10-2015 08:16 AM
  21. Slovenix's Avatar
    Reason why I like Windows is cos it Just Works. Needs to stay that way.

    Needs are increasing though.
    11-10-2015 08:24 AM
  22. 920Walker's Avatar
    Like I said before; you have not yet tried or seen the OS that will, in your words, RTM in 2 days.

    Anyways. UI inconsitency is a matter of opinion. I don't think it needs to be more consistent to be a great OS. These are just minor things and is no big deal. No one that I showed WP8.1 liked the look of it, and they all like Win10Mobile, so something must be right with it. Even IOS 9 has bugs..
    By the look of it, do you mean the Start screen, or did they actually use both OSs?
    11-10-2015 08:30 AM
  23. Hutzi's Avatar
    Im more an Android user, and with this I mean Nexus phones.
    Didn't mention Nexus or Cyanogen because these are the opposite of mainstream. For the average consumer, Samsung TouchWiz equals Android. "What is Android?!" "I run a Samsung phone!". These are the normal people. Not you or I.
    And talking about being productive, W10M fails to Android.
    Do you maybe mean tinkering? Because I loved how I could do what ever the heck I wanted to do with my android back in the days! Custom roms, root access, different recoveries and bootloaders etc. The main reason I would not consider a Android (next to my primary windows mobile) is the issues I have personally with google as a company and how they aggregate revenue.
    11-10-2015 08:36 AM
  24. Slovenix's Avatar
    Didn't mention Nexus or Cyanogen because these are the opposite of mainstream. For the average consumer, Samsung TouchWiz equals Android. "What is Android?!" "I run a Samsung phone!". These are the normal people. Not you or I.

    Do you maybe mean tinkering? Because I loved how I could do what ever the heck I wanted to do with my android back in the days! Custom roms, root access, different recoveries and bootloaders etc. The main reason I would not consider a Android (next to my primary windows mobile) is the issues I have personally with google as a company and how they aggregate revenue.
    Ah yes, it most certanly is like this.. Sometimes it feels useless to discuass anything at all, because in the end it's all about consumers that don't have a clue about anything we talk about.


    Yes I did tinker around too, but then Android got more stable with Lolipop so it was okay to just go with it.

    I still prefer Windows, just wish it had the power of Android and Apps of iOS lol.
    11-10-2015 08:45 AM
  25. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    I remember when I first joined Windows Central (it was windows phone central then), there was a thread or an article asking what made us join this platform in the first place. And I remember answering it with my love for Modern Design 1.0 and design aesthetics of it. I really like the minimal design, lack of chrome and iconography. I like the large segoe font pivot headers. Unfortunately with Windows 10 mobile, all that I loved about the design of Windows Phone is gone. And don't get me wrong, I know that design isn't everything, I know that some compromises had to be made for the idea of Universal Apps to work. I also know that I enjoy using the new office mobile apps and Microsoft Edge, and when I'm working I don't even notice the UI. It might not even exist then. But then I come back to my primary phone on Windows Phone 8.1 and I realize the worth of it, I realize how beautiful it looks, and I realize it will be gone with the next update. Replaced by shades of dark and light grey in headers that don't even extend to the status bar, uppercase header font that just misses out on the beauty of Segoe, zebra strips songs and downloads list, ellipses bar and menu having different shades and proportions, borders around context menus and notification flysouts, and just the shades of dark and light grey in them instead of pure dark and light theme just make me go nuts. Then there is lack of alternative pivot navigation to hamburger items. They have stripped the file explorer of showing storage taken and remaining storage. Sense apps haven't been improved. Live tile functionality hasn't been enhanced. Then there is people tile and app with ridiculous circular avatars and full accent colour for contact badge and accented header and ellipses in hub page with theme background in cards and status bar. All these things give me OCD. I get the importance of hamburger menus and icons in hamburger items, they make sense in desktop and large tablets held and/or used in landscape orientation, even in landscape orientation on phones. But the changes in headers, context menus, fifty shades of grey, zebra strips, lack of pivot navigation and borders beat me. I just wish Microsoft removes these shades of grey in headers and context menus and keep to light or dark themes, do away with uppercase headers, borders around context menus and notification flyouts, circular avatars in people app and live tile, zebra strips for vertical lists and icons and/or tabs in headers. I don't have enough hope though since Microsoft has essentially showed a middle finger to any feedback generated regarding UI. Bye bye modern design 1.0. You will be missed.
    11-10-2015 08:52 AM
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