12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. KimRM's Avatar
    By the look of it, do you mean the Start screen, or did they actually use both OSs?
    First of all the start screen. People are used to full screen backgrounds. We are just a minority who find background in only the tiles interesting. Second the pivot style apps with header fonts so large they go out of the screen so you can't read all of it. I liked it, but most people find it to be strange and not logical in a UX point of view. System background theme was either black or white.. etc..
    11-10-2015 01:37 PM
  2. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Absolutely. The percent of people who would die without a camera button is like what? .00001?

    The pluses of WM over Android or iOS other than the UI are pretty small.

    I can understand people leaving WM over apps or something else, but I can't understand any of them not ALSO being pretty upset about losing the UI. I mean, if it wasn't for that UI, why did the majority of them choose WM in the first place?
    I think you mean WP, Windows Phone. I don't think anyone fondly remembers Windows Mobile's UI.

    Personally I came to WP from Android because of the unique UI and the ease of use. If all I cared about is apps I would've stayed with the Google empire. It not only looked stylish but it also functioned better than Android. I just can't say the same about Windows 10 Whatever. It's like MS took every thing I hated about Android and shoved them into a poorly designed wannabe OS that reeks of desperation. No style and the user friendliness has taken a backseat. Disappointing would be an understatement.
    11-10-2015 01:39 PM
  3. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    I think you mean WP, Windows Phone.
    No, Windows Phone died with WP8. With 10 its back to Windows Mobile (WM) and since 10 is the last ever Windows, WP will probably not return. :(
    11-10-2015 01:43 PM
  4. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    I don't get the "everything is grey" part. You can change the accent colour.
    He's referring to the dull gray that's everywhere in the UI now. Even the background of the settings app is just a bunch of gray with very little contrast. Changing the accent color does diddly-squat.

    I'm just seeing the usual BS rant from here because it doesn't live up to your expectations and the assumption everyone else feels the same way you do.
    Some people actually have standards you know. If a product takes a nose dive in quality and someone wants to voice their opinion on a forum why is that a "BS rant"? What's it to you? Are you the Windows opinion police? lol
    11-10-2015 01:48 PM
  5. silentFan's Avatar
    Agreed. I was a little turned off from W10M when I first started using it but have grown to like it. Now when I have to flash back or buy a new device running 8.1 it looks a little garish.
    Personally I prefer the new Ui compared to 8.1 where there were big titles as if someone was practising design on it, the old setting were a mess but now they look much better (except for the few like extras that no doubt will be fixed).
    Love the new options in the action center, full background start image and as I always say, you have to love something to live with it.
    This is my second windows mobile bought my first last year and next I'm getting a windows pc or tablet for an all round ecosystem.
    11-10-2015 02:05 PM
  6. John M Beauchemin's Avatar
    I hope everyone making these massive posts about their terrible UI design are sending all their feedback to Microsoft. It is user feedback under real-world conditions that help the developers put that last 10% polish on a piece of software, and that takes time. No software ever ships out of the box day 1 as a complete and final product anymore. We are in the age of rapid iteration and agile development and some of you are making out like you're trying to decide on the version of hardware and software you will be using for the next 10 years.

    Kind of funny... I was at Best Buy grabbing a Roku4 Sunday evening, and over by the customer support counter they had a 25-years-of-cigarette-smoke-yellow IBM386 desktop model with a dot matrix printer sitting on the ground with dust bunnies pouring out of every port, and I thought to myself "I wonder if that guy just upgraded to Windows10?"
    Ben Schmidt1 and 920Walker like this.
    11-10-2015 02:50 PM
  7. x I'm tc's Avatar
    You're all talking like it's been released.. jeez.. Hold your horses will you.
    Windows 10 on the desktop has already been released. And it is a buggy and unfinished. What people are worried about is that the same thing will happen on mobile, where MS isn't a market leader and doesn't have the luxury of doing anything short of hitting it out of the park.
    Last edited by Muessig; 11-11-2015 at 03:08 PM.
    11-10-2015 03:00 PM
  8. Dewg's Avatar
    I'm often asked why I have a Windows Phone when people see my HTC One M8. The answer is simple - it works for me. It provides everything I want, and the features I expect. There are some UI elements that take some getting used to, but in the end it's just a UI. I simply learn how to use the UI, and move on. If someone plopped you down in front of a Linux desktop and asked you to install a printer, it'd probably take you some time to figure it out. It's the same for any OS.

    Here are some of my thoughts on the OSs:

    iOS - It's the "gold standard" in America (not the World). However, I feel I cannot interact with the system the way I want to. I'm forced to use iTunes for most basic things, such as adding my MP3 collection, movies, ringtones, etc. I cannot simply connect the phone to a PC and drag the files over. I'm also amazed that through 9 major revisions to iOS, I can't attach a file to an e-mail. Heck, I can't access the file system at all. I can't save an attachment to a folder structure I'd like, nor find the file later and attach it. Sure I can put the file in Dropbox or some other cloud storage, but then I cannot attach multiples to a single e-mail - just one at a time.

    Android - This OS gives me the freedom to do almost anything I'd like. However, it's highly fragmented and American carriers tend to abandon the phone quickly after releasing it. I was always feeling left out when Google announced the cool new version, but I was 2 versions back because Verizon or AT&T wouldn't release the update. The solution here is to go Nexus, which was a great idea, but poorly executed - with Verizon still controlling updates.

    Windows 10 Mobile - This is somewhere between the complete freedom of Android, and the locked experience of iOS. I can change some elements of the UI to personalize it, but I cannot reskin it completely. However, it's a familiar interface, having Windows 10 on my work PC and home PC/tablet. I don't have to remember a different way to so something on the phone vs the desktop. There is a folder structure that I can save my files to - and I can connect my phone to a PC and copy over music, movies and ringtones easily without software. I can attach files to e-mails, and save attachments in the structure I want. Cortana works well for me, and reminds me of the experience I had with Google Now. I love when she tells me it's time to go home.

    To sum up - Windows 10 Mobile works for me. It may not work for others, but that's not important to me. I don't understand the hate. "iOS is the only OS that works - all other mobile OSs are stupid!" "I can't believe you use anything other than Android!". How about, "iOS works for me and does what I need a phone to do." or "I need freedom on my phone to do whatever I want, so Android works for me."

    Thanks for reading my post - I'll go back to cleaning up all the testosterone that's being hosed onto the walls around here.
    11-10-2015 03:23 PM
  9. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Great post, Dewg!

    Cliff Notes: Goldilocks prefers Windows Phone. Its not too this or too that. It's just right.
    Last edited by HoosierDaddy; 11-10-2015 at 03:49 PM.
    11-10-2015 03:33 PM
  10. pallentx's Avatar
    Meh. I like it. Its performing well now and its still not finished yet. The UI is an improvement IMO. I like the smaller text, the scaling capabilities. Its finally fast and fluid again. I find the UI to be fairly consistent, probably more so than the desktop Windows 10. Apps vary, but that will always be the case. Its still the simple to pick up and start using and customize OS Windows Phone always has been. Its still WAY more pleasant to use that the cluttered mess Android and iOS have become IMO.
    11-10-2015 03:46 PM
  11. Lee B's Avatar
    This time they WILL make it right because they have a master plan (UWP+ WAAS). This time they not only want to create a good and productive mobile OS, they also want to create a robust and future proof infrastructure beneath it. So from now on Windows (mobile) will flourish. This is why the platform will take off now. There are so many people just waiting to ditch their terrible, unreliable and overpowered Android phones and their incredibly boring iOS devices for something more productive and robust.
    This is delusional thinking. All the technical stuff (UWP+ WAAS,Continuum, Astoria, Islandwood, etc.) is beside the point,

    Theres only one question that matters is there any hope that MS can become a stronger player in the mobile marketplace? I think the evidence says no. Sales have been declining lately, and long-time loyalists, me included, are increasingly troubled by the app gap. The new flagship phones will not be available on Verizon, the biggest cell provider in America. More than 95% of smartphone users are already committed to Android or iPhone, and most will stay within the ecosystem they know.How many consumers have you run into lately who are telling you, Boy, I cant wait to get one of those new Windows 10 Phones.

    Personally, I think everyone should love the great features that make Windows Phone special, but those features have been around for several years now,and most of the market has said, No, thanks. So weve been stuck in a negative cycle the developers dont come because the customers arent there, the customers arent coming because the apps arent there, and the cell providers don't see any reason to care about a weak, third-place platform.

    WM may succeed in some niche markets (like enterprise types who really see the benefits of cross-platform apps), but Im convinced at this point that WM10 is still-born as a broad-based, consumer app. I wish it were different -- I think the platform deserved a better fate. But the market decides what products live or die, and it seems to be saying thumbs down to Windows Phone.
    11-10-2015 04:04 PM
  12. rgc6789's Avatar
    One thing to remember everyone - RTM for mobile is not the same as RTM for desktop. RTM for mobile means they are releasing the build to the carriers (and the couple of manufacturers who have a couple of phones out there that aren't Lumia). The testing will take 2-3 months minimum. The average user still won't see W10M until January or February. There will be at least 6 more builds before this is released in the wild.
    11-10-2015 04:15 PM
  13. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    We need to see more articles referencing this type of informative rhetoric. Apple and Google are hoping that the mobile culture will completely take away any need for a desktop interface. The reality is people just want the desk top interface to be more mobile. That is what MSFT is working towards. We have to keep in mind that what we are seeing with Windows 10 and Windows 10 mobile are just in the infancy stages of what MSFT is ultimately trying to do. The smoothness at which everything integrates now is nice, but that's only going to improve as the gap between personal and professional begins to shrink.
    11-10-2015 04:20 PM
  14. John M Beauchemin's Avatar
    iOS - It's the "gold standard" in America (not the World). However, I feel I cannot interact with the system the way I want to. I'm forced to use iTunes for most basic things, such as adding my MP3 collection, movies, ringtones, etc. I cannot simply connect the phone to a PC and drag the files over. I'm also amazed that through 9 major revisions to iOS, I can't attach a file to an e-mail. Heck, I can't access the file system at all. I can't save an attachment to a folder structure I'd like, nor find the file later and attach it. Sure I can put the file in Dropbox or some other cloud storage, but then I cannot attach multiples to a single e-mail - just one at a time.

    Android - This OS gives me the freedom to do almost anything I'd like. However, it's highly fragmented and American carriers tend to abandon the phone quickly after releasing it. I was always feeling left out when Google announced the cool new version, but I was 2 versions back because Verizon or AT&T wouldn't release the update. The solution here is to go Nexus, which was a great idea, but poorly executed - with Verizon still controlling updates.

    Windows 10 Mobile - This is somewhere between the complete freedom of Android, and the locked experience of iOS. I can change some elements of the UI to personalize it, but I cannot reskin it completely. However, it's a familiar interface, having Windows 10 on my work PC and home PC/tablet. I don't have to remember a different way to so something on the phone vs the desktop. There is a folder structure that I can save my files to - and I can connect my phone to a PC and copy over music, movies and ringtones easily without software. I can attach files to e-mails, and save attachments in the structure I want. Cortana works well for me, and reminds me of the experience I had with Google Now. I love when she tells me it's time to go home.

    To sum up - Windows 10 Mobile works for me. It may not work for others, but that's not important to me. I don't understand the hate. "iOS is the only OS that works - all other mobile OSs are stupid!" "I can't believe you use anything other than Android!". How about, "iOS works for me and does what I need a phone to do." or "I need freedom on my phone to do whatever I want, so Android works for me."
    This post perfectly encapsulated why I'm leaving iOS after almost 9 years, and also why I decided not to go with Android. Win10m is a familiar interface, and I'm looking forward to not screaming at the walls trying to figure out how to do basic stuff like save a picture somewhere or copy data from one app into another or delete media files associated with an app. Grah.
    pallentx likes this.
    11-10-2015 04:30 PM
  15. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Personally, I think everyone should love the great features that make Windows Phone special, but those features have been around for several years now,and most of the market has said, “No, thanks.”
    I'm sure they are out there but I RARELY run into an iPhone or Android user who has said "No, thanks". The ones I meet say "I never knew that".

    I try to gauge people's open-mindedness among other traits and if they seem open minded, I eventually ask about their phone. If they use iPhones or Android and seem interested in Windows Phones, I offer to loan or give them a Windows Phone. The single most intriguing thing seems to be the ability to receive and send texts totally hands free in any blue-tooth equipped car. I even know one who had traded a car in at a loss for the sole purpose of getting one with a texting app in the new car! I even kept one extra line on a family plan ($10/month) for those with a SIM-less carrier or with different sized SIMs.

    Curiously, I found relatively few open-minded Android users. I'm sure its not a cause and effect thing but something about Android may be more appealing to closed-minded people. And by close-minded I'm not talking about phone preferences but in general. I never even bring up Windows Phones or phones at all with someone who appears close-minded. On the other hand, my experience is that the severity of close-mindedness is more associated with iPhone use. Again, I'm talking about impressions of close-mindedness well before knowing their phone preferences. So more seemingly irrational love of iPhones than Androids.

    Anyway, after screening, and deciding to try a Windows phone, several iPhone users did convert to Windows Phones. One Android who I give one in 4 chance of relapse.

    And I am convinced that if people who never used any phone spent equal time with the three, that WM would be the most chosen.

    What holds Windows Mobile back is ignorance, inertia (don't want to learn from scratch again, peer pressure) and missing apps. They are about equally important. I think the ignorance part could change quickly with modern social media. Just takes the right luck or genius. The other two are brute force.
    11-10-2015 04:45 PM
  16. ramtwins25's Avatar
    Let's see. In 8.1, the only thing I can attach in an email is a picture. In TP W10, I can attach pictures, files, or anything else I need. So, already the email client shows a marketable improvement to me.
    KimRM likes this.
    11-10-2015 05:08 PM
  17. Slovenix's Avatar
    We need to see more articles referencing this type of informative rhetoric. Apple and Google are hoping that the mobile culture will completely take away any need for a desktop interface. The reality is people just want the desk top interface to be more mobile. That is what MSFT is working towards. We have to keep in mind that what we are seeing with Windows 10 and Windows 10 mobile are just in the infancy stages of what MSFT is ultimately trying to do. The smoothness at which everything integrates now is nice, but that's only going to improve as the gap between personal and professional begins to shrink.
    This guy gets it :) Desktop being mobile :) Thanks
    920Walker, LeFreak and libra89 like this.
    11-10-2015 05:39 PM
  18. salazka's Avatar
    Sorry but that review is spot on. Not crap. Windows 10 Mobile it is not a car crash. It's a friggin pile up. It is so bad, that the man responsible for it was sent for "1 year vacation".

    Windows 10 and Windows Mobile is far less than it should be. All that they have promised is still a work in progress, and especially so in the case of Mobile. For a company that claims cloud and mobile first, this is quit a disaster if you couple it with the disaster called OneDrive.
    11-10-2015 05:40 PM
  19. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    "This OS is bad because it uses gray."

    Good argument. Man, people post the most ridiculous things.
    11-10-2015 05:48 PM
  20. chris_gt's Avatar
    Sadly I too think that W10m is shaping up to be the worst update when it comes to UI.

    I don't care how many MS fans defend it claiming it's a beta or an insider preview. In less than 10 days MS flagships will hit the market running this mess, and it won't be pretty.

    MS fans may see it as the greatest OS in the world, but it's the other 99.9% of people who have to like it, buy it and support it so it can become a profitable business and grow.
    11-10-2015 05:57 PM
  21. Dewg's Avatar
    There was a study done once that showed if enough people ask someone if they're feeling okay, or that they look sick, that person will start to feel sick - a psychosomatic response.

    I feel like that's happening here. The Windows 10 haters think that if enough of them say the product is horrible and not fit to see the light of day, then eventually the people using Windows 10 will start to think they're right and begin hating it. A psychosomatic response.

    Clearly they don't like it, and it doesn't work for them. However, it does work for others, and others enjoy it. Why can't they get that? Why must they try to convince everyone else that it's a terrible product?

    What about using the feedback tool to discuss what elements are bothering them, and how they feel it should be changed for the better? "The UI is a train wreck!" Okay, how about offering options on how it should be improved. Perhaps: "The text on the tiles is too small, there should be an option to scale the DPI of the font on the tiles" or "There is an inconsistency in the Settings app that could be cleaned up by re-categorizing some elements into different subsections".

    And the app gap issue... I feel like some people think "If this new OS doesn't have the apps I value right out of the gate, they might as well just stop developing it and call it quits!" Could it be that developers are a little shell shocked from Microsoft changing the app framework so quickly? They started to code for Windows 8 and 8.1, but then Windows 10 has a new framework for Universal Apps, and developers may have said "Let's hold off on coding our app until Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile are fully released." Shazam just released their new app using Universal App framework for Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile, and people are saying it's a great app. People were complaining about the older app lagging behind iOS and Android, but it turns out Shazam was waiting for Windows 10 to release.

    And Microsoft is investing in Bridge to help iOS and Android developers quickly port their app to Windows 10 Universal. Sure it's not just drag and drop, but it's much easier than coding from scratch. King took their iOS Candy Crush Saga and ported it to Windows 8.1, and then took their Android Candy Crush Soda Saga and ported to Windows 10 Universal. It was pretty easy for them, according to the press event. Hopefully other developers will see this, use King and Shazam as examples and port their apps too. And people can encourage them by sending e-mails to their favorite app makers asking them to support Windows 10 Universal Apps.
    11-10-2015 06:25 PM
  22. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Sadly I too think that W10m is shaping up to be the worst update when it comes to UI.

    I don't care how many MS fans defend it claiming it's a beta or an insider preview. In less than 10 days MS flagships will hit the market running this mess, and it won't be pretty.

    MS fans may see it as the greatest OS in the world, but it's the other 99.9% of people who have to like it, buy it and support it so it can become a profitable business and grow.
    I think that there needs to be a distinction between the OS itself and the APPS ms is releasing. The OS itself is great for UI. The start screen has been enhanced, the settings while not perfect are better than 8.1. The ability to scale dpi/text allows for more visual customization. It's a great OS. But, the apps MS is releasing for it are the ones where UI is all over the place. It's basically different groups doing different apps without a central figure approving the design.
    11-10-2015 06:40 PM
  23. Spectrum90's Avatar
    I like W10M, It's a huge improvement over WP8. For the first time Microsoft has a chance to succeed in mobile.
    KimRM likes this.
    11-10-2015 06:54 PM
  24. theefman's Avatar
    Let's see. In 8.1, the only thing I can attach in an email is a picture. In TP W10, I can attach pictures, files, or anything else I need. So, already the email client shows a marketable improvement to me.


    Reality is there was nothing technically stopping the WP client from doing the same apart from Microsoft's incompetence and unwillingness to update the OS. Or have we all forgotten how Microsoft got up on stage during the launch and touted how WP 8 supported 64 core processors in theory, yet it took them ages to support the latest quad core CPUs. Incompetence, plain and simple. .
    Rafael Yousuf and Clinton_O like this.
    11-10-2015 07:33 PM
  25. Allen Rhodes's Avatar
    Just want to chime in and say ive brought up several issues, and got blasted for them. Glad to see im not alone in thinking if they dont solve some issues(SMS sync and battery) before the general release, it will be a massive failure. Perpetual "work in progress" isnt something the typical phone user wants to deal with.
    11-10-2015 07:40 PM
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