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12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. chris_gt's Avatar
    I think that there needs to be a distinction between the OS itself and the APPS ms is releasing. The OS itself is great for UI. The start screen has been enhanced, the settings while not perfect are better than 8.1.
    Yep, technically you are right on that one. But in my view they are part of the OS. Just like iTunes, Safari and Mail on an iPhone or Mac.

    Some people I've read here are really hating the OS. My take on it is that things change, we may like it or not, but that doesn't make them good or bad for everyone.

    I don't like the direction they have taken this time, but I really hope they succeed and do great things with it.
    11-10-2015 07:56 PM
  2. Jack Neill's Avatar
    Wow. Somebody's just annoyed as me over this sluggish flashlight toggle! Even my homie noticed when we REALLY had to use it at night in the park... And then I get these questions again from fellow iPhone users: "How can you live with a constant work and progress on your phone? My iPhone JUST works!" Well.... what do we answer to these type of questions guys.....?
    iOS betas are pretty rough too, not exactly a fair comparison..
    11-10-2015 08:28 PM
  3. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    There was a study done once that showed if enough people ask someone if they're feeling okay, or that they look sick, that person will start to feel sick - a psychosomatic response.

    I feel like that's happening here. The Windows 10 haters think that if enough of them say the product is horrible and not fit to see the light of day, then eventually the people using Windows 10 will start to think they're right and begin hating it. A psychosomatic response.

    Clearly they don't like it, and it doesn't work for them. However, it does work for others, and others enjoy it. Why can't they get that? Why must they try to convince everyone else that it's a terrible product?
    So everyone that doesn't like Windows 10 is a hater now that's trying to spread hate throughout the galaxy. Good job there.

    What about using the feedback tool to discuss what elements are bothering them, and how they feel it should be changed for the better? "The UI is a train wreck!" Okay, how about offering options on how it should be improved. Perhaps: "The text on the tiles is too small, there should be an option to scale the DPI of the font on the tiles" or "There is an inconsistency in the Settings app that could be cleaned up by re-categorizing some elements into different subsections".
    What makes you think that people aren't using the feedback tool? I certainly have and others have said they have as well. Also it is possible to use the feedback tool AND come here and discuss things.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-10-2015 08:29 PM
  4. ttsoldier's Avatar
    As if windows 10 is ready... Ha...

    I don't even have a "restart" option on my phone. hahahahaha
    11-10-2015 08:34 PM
  5. nekkedrunner's Avatar
    Who wants pretty anyway from an O.S. that is as invasive as any virus out there.
    Between Google, Microsoft and so many other CLOUD based systems it is like a war of who owns my computer the most.
    Certainly isn't me anymore.

    Just another example of the big companies taking a very useful concept (Internet) and destroying it with commercialism.

    Virus's steal info. Virus's degrade computer ability. Virus's plaster crap onto your computer.
    Doesn't that sound just like today's O.S. In my opinion the only difference is virus's can be removed
    and you can be back to safe computing and internet traversing whether it be a desktop, laptop, smart phone or tablet.
    11-10-2015 10:00 PM
  6. Dewg's Avatar
    So everyone that doesn't like Windows 10 is a hater now that's trying to spread hate throughout the galaxy. Good job there.
    Kram - stop picking and choosing words. I didn't say everyone. I was referring to people saying Windows 10 is train wreck, a disaster, a worthless OS. The most extreme negative comments possible. The haters. People that have issues with the OS should be constructive. Offer feedback and discuss - not bash - but discuss. There's a big difference from "Honey, that was a pretty good dinner. Just a tad too salty on the vegies." and "Wow, that's the worst food you've ever made in your life, please never cook again." Some of the comments I've read from people make me wonder if they'd call out the chef at a restaurant if they didn't like their meal and ask him or her to quit their job because they suck.

    What makes you think that people aren't using the feedback tool? I certainly have and others have said they have as well. Also it is possible to use the feedback tool AND come here and discuss things.
    I hope people are using the feedback tool. And again, I hope they do come here and discuss things. Key word - discuss. But the hate some people have is amazing. They walk in, proclaim something is the worst thing ever created, and drop the mic. I get it, some people are not excited about Windows 10.
    a5cent, libra89, editguy and 3 others like this.
    11-10-2015 10:12 PM
  7. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    They walk in, proclaim something is the worst thing ever created, and drop the mic. I get it, some people are not excited about Windows 10.
    Well if u are talking about me here then i would like to say you are wrong. I will be the first one upgrading my phones to W10M when it comes out.
    What you are getting wrong is that you think we "hate" the OS but in fact we are simply criticizing MS for some of the OS shortcomings. As fans of MS, W10 and W10M we should be doing more criticizing because this will put more pressure on MS to do a better job. We all want W10M to succeed (me the most ;) ) but you also have to be honest and point fingers at everything that is wrong. YES we are all using the feedback too, i am on it most of the time and i see suggestions that have 2000+votes (same idea could be submitted multiple times with 2000+ votes each which amounts to 10000 for example) and those things havent been addressed in the new builds. That is why we are sounding off here and other websites. We care too much for the OS and we dont want these tiny details to be the reason why it might fail.
    11-10-2015 10:19 PM
  8. Dewg's Avatar
    As fans of MS, W10 and W10M we should be doing more criticizing because this will put more pressure on MS to do a better job. We all want W10M to succeed (me the most ;) )
    I'm with you Rafael - I guess if you're a real serious fan, some things might frustrate you. Keep being a cheerleader - have faith and keep the feedback up. Microsoft is listening - we've seen it all through the Insider Builds of Windows 10 over the last year. Something might just take longer, or have behind the scenes issues we don't fully see at the front end. Or there is a vision they're heading to and our request doesn't make sense for where it's going. But each build is getting better and better - this last build was a major improvement on my HTC M8 - battery life jumped to nearly 2 days on a charge vs 1/2 day on the previous build. Apps launch much faster - overall a smoother experience. My double-tap the screen to wake up even came back! :-)
    11-10-2015 10:34 PM
  9. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    The problem is that the number of people who appreciate that sort of thing aren't exactly a huge part of the population
    And how did u know that? Where did u get your data from?
    This is primarily a Windows fan site. If you aren't taking the blue pill you should probably be checking out Android Central / iMore :P
    I am not taking any pills lol. Also, i hate to see MS fans turn into iSheep blindly accepting everything from MS. It is because of this MS is slacking and thinking that no matter what they throw at us, we will just take it and praise them for it. It is time to point MS to their mistakes so they can fix them. Otherwise we will be seeing the demise of this platform very soon.

    Cortana is unrelated to W10M
    You are wrong here, if it was unrelated then why is MS showing her off in every single W10 and W10M ad? Imagine how new users will react to cortana when they see that now at this stage it is just a glorified web wrapper for the bing mobile site?

    I think your thread is BS.
    and only because you don't think something doesn't look the way you want, it doesn't mean everyone will think the same. but I know this a forum, full of complainers and BS. yes.
    Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this thread (sarcasm).
    Don't get me wrong, i never said i didnt like the UI, i really do but it is these little things in it that bother me which makes it a mess. If voicing my opinion about something is now BS and just plain complains then so be it, i aint changing how i feel about something just so people wont call me or my ideas BS.

    Let's see. In 8.1, the only thing I can attach in an email is a picture. In TP W10, I can attach pictures, files, or anything else I need. So, already the email client shows a marketable improvement to me.
    Bro, this thread is about the messy UI and unfinished functionalities that MS think its ready for public release. We all appreciate the new features.

    "This OS is bad because it uses gray."

    Good argument. Man, people post the most ridiculous things.
    Apparently u never owned a phone with amoled screen. My phone has amoled screen and clear black tech. This new OS just made those 2 "features" worthless.
    Last edited by xandros9; 11-11-2015 at 09:30 AM. Reason: merging like, 5 posts
    HinoMusouka likes this.
    11-10-2015 10:36 PM
  10. a5cent's Avatar
    And how did u know that? Where did u get your data from?
    I'd say that Android's UI is a clear and valid counter example. If an inconsistent and messy UI were actually the strong deterrent you suggest it is, then Android wouldn't dominate at over 80% market share, which it had reached long before even material design came along.

    IMHO the fact that WP's market share over the years barely ever broke 3% is also quite a clear indicator, that few value a systematically designed and consistent UI highly enough to have it influence their purchasing decision.

    I could also provide a lot of examples supporting my view from my experience in the software industry, but that's anecdotal and not necessary when the above should already suffice to convince you. Disagree?
    editguy likes this.
    11-10-2015 11:02 PM
  11. midnightfrolic's Avatar
    Is W10M ready for prime time? I believe so. Sure, there are bugs. What software doesn't have bugs? Developers can only test so much. Hence zero-day exploits exists. W10M Build 10581 is my daily driver on 640XL unlocked. Has not failed me when doing what it's designed to do - make phone calls. Work in progress? Absolutely. It's constantly being updated, molded, upgraded, enhanced all the time. From user feedback. Example would be 'make it easier to shuffle and repeat single song in Groove". They did it. I know, because I asked for it. Better battery life? Done. There has been a lot of improvements and changes since I've purchased the 640XL just under a month ago. W10M is constantly evolving. I see updates all the time being an Insider. Some days, I see 2-3 updates for the same app, albeit usually MS's core apps. But this proves they are really working developing and tweaking W10M.

    I always criticized and was critical of car mechanics for their overpriced parts and services and long repair times until I had to fix my own car. It sucks majorly. Want to make W10M better? Keep sending feedback. Join their QA team. Join their development team.
    11-10-2015 11:07 PM
  12. Rafael Yousuf's Avatar
    I'd say that Android's UI is a clear and valid counter example. If an inconsistent UI were actually the strong deterrent you suggest it is, then Android wouldn't dominate at over 80% market share, which it had reached long before even material design came along.

    IMHO the fact that WP's market share over the years barely ever broke 3% is also quite a clear indicator, that few value a systematically designed and consistent UI highly enough to have it influence their purchasing decision.

    I could also provide a lot of examples supporting my view from my experience in the software industry, but that's anecdotal and not necessary when the above should already suffice to convince you. Disagree?
    Yes, i kind of disagree here. Mainly on why android is popular. See, android became popular when the only smart phones in the market where the expensive iPhone and the Windows Mobile devices which were aimed mainly towards enterprise. Android won many new users because it was cheep and so markets who cant afford iPhones jumped to Android and some stayed with the old nokia phones. At that time, users didnt have much choice and they couldn't refuse android for its UI, but now in these years where UI and UX are a huge focus for many companies, users are starting to care about UI and how comfortable it is to use. Why do u think google jumped to material design and is trying to unify their UI design guidelines if the UI wasnt important as you claim?
    WP didnt get marketshare because of 3rd party devs not building apps for the platform and because the massive hate wave it received from reviewers, carriers and other people in the market who influence users choices. If you ask the 3% of people who use WP, i am sure one of their reasons on why they chose WP would be the UI and its uniqueness.

    I will give u an example, if u had 2 software each from a different company and both do the exact same thing in the same efficiency. But one have a messy UI that is a bit confusing and the other has a beautifully designed UI, comfortable and clean. Would u go for the ugly or the nice and clean UI?
    11-10-2015 11:12 PM
  13. sanu rajan1's Avatar
    all you guys are acting as if you are the one developing the os.How can you known what the people at Microsoft is thinking or planing wait for the os to release they say what you want.
    editguy likes this.
    11-10-2015 11:29 PM
  14. vedant dhaktod's Avatar
    Any one know the dates of official update ??? For W10M
    11-10-2015 11:36 PM
  15. Slovenix's Avatar
    Yes, i kind of disagree here. Mainly on why android is popular. See, android became popular when the only smart phones in the market where the expensive iPhone and the Windows Mobile devices which were aimed mainly towards enterprise. Android won many new users because it was cheep and so markets who cant afford iPhones jumped to Android and some stayed with the old nokia phones. At that time, users didnt have much choice and they couldn't refuse android for its UI, but now in these years where UI and UX are a huge focus for many companies, users are starting to care about UI and how comfortable it is to use. Why do u think google jumped to material design and is trying to unify their UI design guidelines if the UI wasnt important as you claim?
    WP didnt get marketshare because of 3rd party devs not building apps for the platform and because the massive hate wave it received from reviewers, carriers and other people in the market who influence users choices. If you ask the 3% of people who use WP, i am sure one of their reasons on why they chose WP would be the UI and its uniqueness.

    I will give u an example, if u had 2 software each from a different company and both do the exact same thing in the same efficiency. But one have a messy UI that is a bit confusing and the other has a beautifully designed UI, comfortable and clean. Would u go for the ugly or the nice and clean UI?
    Count me in, I came for something new in UI. After some time I've became annoyed by huge titles and some chat window elements, but thats it. Just wished they could make them smaller like it is today, but definately keep the pivots, all the swiping actions, etc. Now thats gone. I still like or sometime prefer hamburger menu, but its nothing new.
    11-10-2015 11:49 PM
  16. Slovenix's Avatar
    Also am I the only one who is annoyed about text being cut off instead of continuing on Messaging Tiles?
    11-11-2015 12:00 AM
  17. Lee B's Avatar
    See, android became popular when the only smart phones in the market where the expensive iPhone and the Windows Mobile devices which were aimed mainly towards enterprise. Android won many new users because it was cheep and so markets who cant afford iPhones jumped to Android and some stayed with the old nokia phones. At that time, users didnt have much choice and they couldn't refuse android for its UI, but now in these years where UI and UX are a huge focus for many companies, users are starting to care about UI and how comfortable it is to use.
    But notice what your example says. Apple knew how to find a big market (at the high end, a market they still have, which is why they pull in about 90% of the profits in smart phones). The assorted Android players also knew how to find a market and now have a majority of the world's cell phones (though not even close to a majority of the profits). But MS, which was in this market before Apple, peaked around 3%. MS has tried, repeatedly. They've built a really cool ecosystem. They've spent a bunch of money trying to build something that could get more than a 3% market share. It hasn't worked. In the U.S., the buyers who aren't already committed to one OS or another are mostly kids, and they'll get either an Android device because they can afford it, or an iPhone because that's what they really want. I'm finding it hard to see where WM has a market opportunity.
    11-11-2015 12:26 AM
  18. SonOfDad's Avatar
    Colour me confused?
    Obviously you are since theirs no such thing as 'wp 10' ? But lets delve a little deeper, what happens when you tap a section in settings, 'System' for example, oh look at that the same disorganised mess Display, notifications & actions, Phone, Messaging, Battery saver, Storage, Device encryption, Driving mode, Offline maps, About all of that in a really small font so you can easily tap the incorrect option.

    Settings sucked in WP7, continued through WP8 and is barely any better in W10m the fact that the opening screen is completely different to any other W10m screen doesn't help out at all.

    all you guys are acting as if you are the one developing the os.How can you known what the people at Microsoft is thinking or planing wait for the os to release they say what you want.
    Perhaps people here should be many actually show attention to detail. Between your broken Engrish are you saying launch into complaints about the OS once it is "on the shelf"? Kind of missing the point of the insider program aren't you?
    Last edited by SonOfDad; 11-11-2015 at 12:54 AM.
    11-11-2015 12:39 AM
  19. indie24's Avatar
    The latest build 10581 has been very stable for me with no reboots and use it everyday on my 1520. I can why they say they are ready as they would have been testing better builds for some time now.
    11-11-2015 01:24 AM
  20. SonOfDad's Avatar
    I can why they say they are ready as they would have been testing better builds for some time now.
    Nothing screams ready for use like taking 45 minutes for Microsoft's own apps to fail updating

    11-11-2015 01:52 AM
  21. jlabelle's Avatar
    I seem to be in minority here when I see all the vocal feedback.
    I have followed the different builds evolution since the beginning and was also really concern on W10 mobile with all the bugs and issued I encounter.
    Recently, I broke the screen of my Lumia 930 so was on W8.1 on the Lumia 640 Dual-SIM of the work for a month. Then last, week, I upgraded to the 10581 built and jesus, it is GREAT.

    I mean, the start screen is really beautiful now, the Live Tiles are working perfectly, all the features are great in the various universal apps.
    I clearly see this W10 build (except non synchro of Edge bookmarks and the SD card setting bug) as RTM quality.

    And honestly, I am surprised because I am overwhelmed by the evolution since W8.1, this is really feeling like a new device and completely new OS that for me is far FAR superior to the iPhone 6 of my wife.

    So maybe I am delusional but I am particularly optimist on the quality of W10 mobile.
    11-11-2015 02:31 AM
  22. Qtweeder's Avatar
    my 1020 feels like a new phone with the latest preview on, i was a tester some months back, but rolled back to 8.1 after a while because of lack of basic functionality, but i tell you what, and am suprised at this, is my 1020, on clean, vanilla, stock 8.1 (did a hard reset, and didnt restore, new install, all fresh when i rolled back to 8.1) on that, i continued to have app crashes, resuming hangs, stuck tiles, reboots from opening random apps, and often it would take multiple (5-10) attempts to open an app, it would CTD - it was slower than it is now overall

    so when i decided to test the progress the other day, to see how things had moved on?, i wasnt expecting much tbh, and am very pleased with the cohesion, performance and fixes to what i had issues with before, its come a long way, and its a total daily driver now, no issues, for me at least,
    i havent had one resume hang, not one app crash, everything seems to work in the background better

    i must say with all of that said, this was an upgrade from 8.1, meaning i haven't even hard reset after installing w10m (because i expected to be rolling back not long after!)

    so i was depressed at the whole w10m thing a few months back but am now seeing this "preview" as even better, faster, more reliable, than the legitimate RTM 8.1 which was always alleged to be slick, stable and just worked!!!!!

    about time :) and don't jeopardize all of that by sticking back in some kind of bloated android emulation layer, primarily, let windows phone be windows phone, if there is zero hit from it, sure, bring it on and implement it

    personally, i think now that MS owns lumia (rather than just making an OS for other OEMS), we are going to see a more aligned example of what we have always known of apple, a company who controls their OS and hardware, and this is known for making a better, leaner, more efficient and optimized UX, and this is believe is the beginning of what i am seeing in this new update/era for ms/lumia!
    11-11-2015 02:42 AM
  23. SonOfDad's Avatar
    the Live Tiles are working perfectly
    Are you SURE about that because live tiles don't even have consistency in how notifications are displayed.
    t0shibasz likes this.
    11-11-2015 03:11 AM
  24. M7H's Avatar
    One thing to remember everyone - RTM for mobile is not the same as RTM for desktop. RTM for mobile means they are releasing the build to the carriers (and the couple of manufacturers who have a couple of phones out there that aren't Lumia). The testing will take 2-3 months minimum. The average user still won't see W10M until January or February. There will be at least 6 more builds before this is released in the wild.
    A lot of people believe it will be released tomorrow.
    11-11-2015 04:07 AM
  25. congthanhgiong's Avatar
    Nothing screams ready for use like taking 45 minutes for Microsoft's own apps to fail updating

    http://s22.postimg.org/ju6x0kbd9/wp_...51111_0006.jpg
    What is your build? 10581 does a lot of store fix, in my case, all apps update fine, no more error
    11-11-2015 04:24 AM
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