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12-08-2015 07:28 PM
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  1. Qtweeder's Avatar
    spec junkies never will get it - UX isnt exclusively about the most highest ram / cpu, its a lot to do with UI implementation, besides, android, which is an emulation layer, requires big specs to get over its own inherent bloat, native OS's which are optimized to their respective hardware, WP/Apple, generally dont require as much high spec just to get by

    I never own, use, hold, touch or test WP/WM. I do like the os but what me don't go to MS mobile ecosystem is hardware and its price not UI or apps. You can buy many 2/3GB RAM Android phone with price start from $100. Windows phone look overprice especially low to midrange.
    11-11-2015 08:13 AM
  2. t0shibasz's Avatar
    Hi Rafael,
    I understand that you (and lots of WP fans) are disappointed with the new UI/Design.
    That why we are the hipsters who use an OS with the design language so different from other platforms. Lots of us love black&white. It looks like we're using the mobile
    version of MS-DOS.
    And don't get me wrong, I LIKE it. But it's just not the taste of most users.
    The new design is absolutely needed if WM is to attract more users. Design is about satisfying the majority.
    So if you hope MS are going back to the old design, you're out of luck.
    As for Cortana, you know it's powered by Bing right? They're the SAME thing. You can change the default search engine on the browser thought.
    Right to the point I think :)
    11-11-2015 08:19 AM
  3. Qtweeder's Avatar
    opposite experience for me completely as i posted a few pages back, on my 1020 its blazing fast and stable and hands down thrashes my previous 8.1 OS into the ground!!!!

    it's clearly down to peoples settings or how they upgraded? maybe if you have several installs of the preview on top of each other, that could affect it>? i am not sure, all i know is going from 8.1 straight into 10851 even without hard reset is almost perfect here

    still running like a snail on most of the devices, besides the last quad core 930,1520,icon ones. I've personally seen the last build running on 920,1020,735,640 and 830 and comparing to 8.1 is slow, very slow, sluggish.
    .
    11-11-2015 08:19 AM
  4. emjey's Avatar
    opposite experience for me completely as i posted a few pages back, on my 1020 its blazing fast and stable and hands down thrashes my previous 8.1 OS into the ground!!!!

    it's clearly down to peoples settings or how they upgraded? maybe if you have several installs of the preview on top of each other, that could affect it>? i am not sure, all i know is going from 8.1 straight into 10851 even without hard reset is almost perfect here
    You lucky!
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    11-11-2015 08:24 AM
  5. KimRM's Avatar
    I of course use them as shortcuts. That's their primary role, but also as a quick glance for info (like the weather tile). But I agree that they should have been on the desktop. Maybe MS will have the balls to do that in the future. At the moment the only icon I have on the desktop is the trash bin, so it's basically just wasted space.
    11-11-2015 08:35 AM
  6. Bagzton's Avatar
    As for Cortana, you know it's powered by Bing right? They're the SAME thing. You can change the default search engine on the browser thought.
    Yes, Cortana is powered by Bing but the problem (IMO) has to do with the look compared to that of WP8.1 There's no consistency with it when you're on a dark theme. Also, I feel it's too vertically laid out. Plus, you don't get to read the first few lines of the information provided anymore.
    920Walker and Kram Sacul like this.
    11-11-2015 08:36 AM
  7. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Reality is there was nothing technically stopping the WP client from doing the same apart from Microsoft's incompetence and unwillingness to update the OS. Or have we all forgotten how Microsoft got up on stage during the launch and touted how WP 8 supported 64 core processors in theory, yet it took them ages to support the latest quad core CPUs. Incompetence, plain and simple. .
    That's one of the big drawbacks of 8.1 In order to fix that they would have had to do an OS update. Now it's just an app update.

    I love the live folders. Maybe no one else has as big an issue as you think. Everyone I talk to likes it.
    It depends what is in it. But it can certainly make the screen look way too busy. And this is what I have been told from android/ios users. Even reps at kiosks that sell phones. Other than that they usually do like the way my start looks. It should be an option and not something that is forced. I too would prefer to be able to set some folders static, others dynamic.

    Well said there! Windows 10 as it is now on the desktop is nothing but never ending bugs, broken KB updates, totally not optimized tablet mode etc etc...and windows 10 on the phones is nothing more than a shrinked down PC UI, nothing in place with an amateur design template. This is the result of Nadella's layoff actions within MS. MS has lost the quality it once had. starting with the customer support which is absolutely terrible, zero! value, zero! knowledge and ending with the products we discuss over here and the lack of respect paid to customers.
    We are almost at the release of public build for windows 10 mobile and the OS is still running like a snail on most of the devices, besides the last quad core 930,1520,icon ones. I've personally seen the last build running on 920,1020,735,640 and 830 and comparing to 8.1 is slow, very slow, sluggish.
    Dreamers here expect perfection from MS in a few weeks :)). I thought until now that Apple delivered the worst beta OS ever with their IOS 8.0 beta series, but it seems that MS has managed to beat them at least in one aspect: worst beta OS :))) almost a year in 3 months and the mobile OS is still as it is...and some here expect devs to simply dive in and make apps :)). Keep waiting my friends...at this rate you'll see some improvements in app situation in at least a year from now, if that's ever gonna happen...
    I'm only speaking for myself, but On the latest build of the upcoming RTM and i have 0 issues. I had more issues on the initial RTM no doubt. I know many who also don't have any issues. And I'm not saying you don't. The point is that there will always be people who have issues. I implore you to look at all hte issues mac/ios users are having. It's funny but at least Apple can control the hardware so they shouldn't have as many issues, but they still do. While MS has to deal with so many different configurations it's ridiculous. And ios 9 was actually quite a nightmare if you look it up. That's why they released 9.1 to fix a lot of issues. And of course 8.0 was so bad they had to release 9 just to fix most issues. But you can't compare them as they are working on an OS that is evolving rather than being rewritten. And considering MS is completely rewriting theirs, they are not doing too bad. As of the latest build I haven't had any issues on my 830 other than the known ones. It's super speedy too. And I have so many apps on my start screen it's silly. A lot of them in live folders. I find it impressive as the 830 is not running great hardware. You didn't pay for the internals but mostly the premium design and of course camera.

    People just need to stop treating this as an update to 8.1, it really isn't. It's entirely new. They skipped straight to Windows 10 to really make that point. Although my view is if they aren't going to do any more windows versions they should just give it a cool name like "Windows Vision".
    Last edited by xandros9; 11-11-2015 at 09:34 AM. Reason: merging posts
    11-11-2015 08:40 AM
  8. fredd's Avatar
    They don't need to please everyone. They need to offer a product that is finished / polished on a level of the competitors. An because with their small base of users, they can not change "general habits of mobile experience" - they need to offer similar experience (or to offer something breakthrough like Apple did with introducing of iPhone)
    My opinion is that different UI experience is bigger problem than app gap. Most of the people I think, are not so demanding about the apps.
    I disagree completely. I have used Iphones and Android phones and hated them. I'm running 10 on my 735 and other than a few things that I'm sure will be fixed when the official release comes out I am liking it. The only thing I'm missing is some of the apps that I had on the other platforms. One of the biggest satellite company's out there Dish network and there is no working app on Windows. One other app I'm missing on Windows is the swannview security app. You go to any Walmart lowes Home depot, and they sell the swann security cameras. The app works perfect on android and IPhone. I realize these two app don't apply to everyone but idf the app gap wasn't a problem then we wouldn't hear so much about it.
    11-11-2015 08:54 AM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    Right to the point I think :)
    I really hope that post is NOT to the point.

    If all we're discussing is aesthetics (monochromatic vs. being "rainbowy"), then this thread is a complete waste of time.

    I think most agree that W10M does fix many of WP's perceived aesthetical problems (text not fitting on screen, too bland, etc). Some will maintain MS screwed up as much as it fixed (circles for people, round toggle buttons that seem completely out of place, etc), but that is ultimately all subjective and superficial.

    I really hope this thread is not about such superficial issues, but about the areas W10M's UI falls on its face functionally, i.e. in terms of one handed usability, consistency, discoverability, legibility, etc..

    In most of those areas W10M does worse than WP. IMHO the main UI benefit W10M gained for all its functional sacrifices is familiarity to iOS and Android users.
    Last edited by a5cent; 11-11-2015 at 09:12 AM.
    libra89 likes this.
    11-11-2015 08:57 AM
  10. jfa1's Avatar
    Just like the title says, I believe that the current build or even the next one won't be RTM ready. I am not talking about performance, I am talking about the UI & UX of W10M. The UI is a mess (specially with all the gray color used everywhere).
    I mean how do they say it is ready if Cortana is still using the Bing mobile site to show search result.
    Users notice the UI first.if the Ui is a mess, don't expect the OS to be a success.

    I feel sad for the current state of W10M.
    I wish MS. would do something about their UI team.

    What do u guys think?
    I personally think that the important thing is how the os works not what it looks like
    11-11-2015 09:03 AM
  11. t0shibasz's Avatar
    I really hope that post is NOT to the point.

    If all we're discussing is aesthetics (monochromatic vs. being "rainbowy"), then this thread is a complete waste of time.

    I think most agree that W10M does fix many of WP's perceived aesthetical problems (text not fitting on screen, too bland, etc). Some will maintain MS screwed up as much as it fixed (circles for people, round toggle buttons that seem completely out of place, etc), but that is ultimately all subjective and superficial.

    I really hope this thread is not about such superficial issues, but about the areas W10M's UI falls on its face functionally, i.e. in terms of one handed usability, consistency, discoverability, legibility, etc

    In most of those areas W10M does worse than WP. IMHO the main redeeming UI factor W10M can present in that area is familiarity to iOS and Android users.
    Seeing where "we stand now" (we as Win Mobile), i think its to the point. Functionality & Aesthetics. Otherwise why they came back with start button on W10 desktop? Its about the common experience.

    I have repeated my self numerous of times - dock icons for mobile is like start button on desktop. This is the standard for the mainstream. And can you give me one rational benefit of that long list of apps in a drawer instead of grid? Empty, non-used space on a right side...

    I said...if they want only niche segment from the market they can continue this way. And just in case, instead of asking us (WP fans) whats wrong and how to improve it, they can go to Android and iOS forums and ask there. Cuz they need them....
    11-11-2015 09:05 AM
  12. loribinca's Avatar
    I got the Apple watch and iPad as a gift. I snagged an iPhone 5s from ATT and much as I dislike IOS, it works and I have access to all the stuff I never had access to on Windows Phone. I am using most of Microsoft's apps on all these devices. I honestly think this is the long term plan for MS
    11-11-2015 09:23 AM
  13. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    II am using most of Microsoft's apps on all these devices. I honestly think this is the long term plan for MS
    Of course it's the plan. No reason to deprive people of Windows services just because they choose an inferior phone. That would be like adding injury to insult.
    __________________________________________
    When in doubt, yes, I am probably joking.
    badcat, Steve Adams and libra89 like this.
    11-11-2015 09:31 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    Seeing where "we stand now" (we as Win Mobile), i think its to the point. Functionality & Aesthetics. Otherwise why they came back with start button on W10 desktop? Its about the common experience.


    I said...if they want only niche segment from the market they can continue this way. And just in case, instead of asking us (WP fans) whats wrong and how to improve it, they can go to Android and iOS forums and ask there. Cuz they need them....
    I don't understand how your analogy to the W10 start menu has anything to do with this.


    Anyway, the idea that a more familiar UI will get iOS and Android users to switch, boarders on insanity (or mass wishful thinking?). We know what the actual problems are (official apps, regional apps, no support from Google, stigma). The UI is just NOT important enough to get people to overlook those disadvantages, particularly not if all WM aims to offer is what those folks already have.


    I can't imagine a strategy more flawed than that (which is also why that's not actually what MS is thinking).
    Kram Sacul and libra89 like this.
    11-11-2015 09:40 AM
  15. badcat's Avatar
    They don't need to please everyone. They need to offer a product that is finished / polished on a level of the competitors. An because with their small base of users, they can not change "general habits of mobile experience" - they need to offer similar experience (or to offer something breakthrough like Apple did with introducing of iPhone)
    My opinion is that different UI experience is bigger problem than app gap. Most of the people I think, are not so demanding about the apps.
    Of course they have to please people. This whole thread is about how displeased some people are.
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    11-11-2015 09:57 AM
  16. badcat's Avatar
    If Microsoft worked hard on WP there won't be any need to moan about anything but they are incompetent, lazy, careless, slow company ONLY WHEN IT COMES TO WP. Sorry I like them but that's the truth they are a sloth on WP but extremely competitive in other MS departments
    Those are strong words. I presume, you like myself, don't actually have any clue is to what is going on inside MS. Lets understand something here. I'm not defending MS in any way, shape or form. I just don't get all the complaining about an unfinished piece of work which no one was forced to install.

    And if people are that unhappy, leave already. Move to another platform and be done with it.
    Compiux likes this.
    11-11-2015 10:00 AM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    It depends what is in it. But it can certainly make the screen look way too busy. And this is what I have been told from android/ios users. Even reps at kiosks that sell phones. Other than that they usually do like the way my start looks. It should be an option and not something that is forced. I too would prefer to be able to set some folders static, others dynamic.
    I actively use all OS's, so I compare them in real life scenarios. This is my opinion, that the WP screen is too busy. A WC member that used to be on here a lot who is a graphic designer talked about the grid of icons causing "brain freeze" due to too much information available. Well, to me, a WP start screen is the same, plus it has the tiles flipping. It's brain freeze on steroids!

    I think the saving grace of both icons and tiles is that we soon learn exactly where everything is on our phones, and do not need to look for them. If I hand my Android phone to you as a WP user, you would say it is a confusing mess. OTOH, if I hand you as an Android user my Windows Phone, you would say it is a confusing mess. They are all confusing messes if we're not familiar with them. That is why I put little stock in our perception of organization as a UI feature. I'm more concerned with the number of taps/clicks to get somewhere.

    Don't get me wrong; I love the looks, but in real life usage I find that it can be a bit overwhelming. Even though fans love the Live Tiles, I can certainly understand why the general public doesn't seem to go for them.
    Rem97 likes this.
    11-11-2015 10:19 AM
  18. Abdul Muhaymin Arif's Avatar
    Windows 10 for mobile, in my opinion the RTM will work great on latest devices like 30,40,50 series, because I think it is developed considering the utilization of quad core processors. Currently I am running latest build in Lumia 925, it performs OK, sometimes frustrating, and sometimes great. (I was frustrated when my memory was full, and the OS was hanging like hell, Once I moved data, it is OK now). But I tried earlier builds in my Lumia 535, I was getting similar performance in a lower end model (not using 535, because of the f**in touch issues), so I think the latest build is great in Lumia 30,40 and 50 series. Can any one comment the performance in phones like Lumia 640,640xl,830,540,930,1520?

    Also they are releasing Windows 10 Builds in wave right? Like 50 Series first, followed by 40, and then 30. I don't think Microsoft will waste time to optimize the OS for those dual core phones 3 years old, still will release OS update late. After all which operating system gives OS updates for 3 year old phones?
    11-11-2015 10:32 AM
  19. johan sevenhant's Avatar
    I personally think the UI looks fab with lots of changes compared to wp 8.1...IF you're completely new to it....so being no insider....otherwise the bit by bit part started being boring....but no offense...coz' to be honest the last months I tried android and ios but I kept going back to windows phone.....
    11-11-2015 10:33 AM
  20. sai sandeep akula's Avatar
    I Agree with ui doesn't bring customers, but compared to 8.1 doesn't does well (grey background and Cortana ui) but added great features to Cortana, windows insiders are still giving reviews and problem feedback, so better first satisfy fans of windows ecosystem, then release to public. Fews days left to decide.
    11-11-2015 10:39 AM
  21. 7a2eer's Avatar
    I'd say that Android's UI is a clear and valid counter example. If an inconsistent and messy UI were actually the strong deterrent you suggest it is, then Android wouldn't dominate at over 80% market share, which it had reached long before even material design came along.
    if-thens don't change the fact that Android sells. On Android Central people argue about icons, animations, etc. We know at least Android enthusiasts care about consistency.

    1 - W10M is not consistent
    2 - W10M does not have all mainstream apps
    3 - W10M lacks support
    ........
    Bonus: Lumia 950 looks like a dog turd that baked under the California sun for too long

    Yeah, I'd say there's at least one less reason to consider a W10M phone.
    11-11-2015 10:39 AM
  22. t0shibasz's Avatar
    I don't understand how your analogy to the W10 start menu has anything to do with this.
    I don't understand how you don't get the analogy. For all basic functions on the phones people are "accommodated" to find them on the bottom on the UI. Habit from other OS's, that are longer on the market. The same was with start button. Except the habit was from previous W desktops. Sorry, my english is not so good, and I can not explain good.

    I don't understand how your analogy to the W10 start menu has anything to do with this.
    I can't imagine a strategy more flawed than that (which is also why that's not actually what MS is thinking).
    And thats why they stand where they are
    Last edited by a5cent; 11-11-2015 at 01:06 PM. Reason: merged multiple posts
    11-11-2015 10:40 AM
  23. Peelay77's Avatar
    Running on a L830 and I have to say no, it won't be "final" or at least what I would consider "final". However if you look at the state Win10 was in when it was released, it was similar. I think MS has changed their view of what "good" is and lowered the bar on releasing bug free software (or as close as is reasonably possible). A phone is different than a desktop computer though, I think the tolerance for bugs is far less, when it comes to a phone you want it to just work. Overall I think it's come a long way and is showing promise but there are sooo many little issues that show a true lack of polish. Some of the things that drive me nuts are:

    Outlook constantly telling me my account settings are out of date when they aren't (and I run six O365 Exchange accounts and I get them regularly for each account).

    Notifications don't always work and being notified is obviously important.

    Live tiles don' t get updated correctly (i.e. go in and read your emails then back to start screen to go to another account and tile badge still shows same number of unread emails). At the moment they should just be called Tiles, not Live Tiles as they're pretty "dead" at the moment.

    Open an existing txt message conversation and the keyboard covers the most recent message and input field, you first have to hit the back button before you can click in the "type a message field" to bring up the keyboard again with recent message now visible.

    I can open and Excel file stored on OneDrive if I go to Excel and open but if I go to OneDrive first and try to open it doesn't work.

    The removal of the unified inbox from 8.1 is a HUGE mistake, really not sure what genious over at MS thinks this is an improvement

    Then there's the App Gap, this still has a long way to go and false promises about 3rd parties creating apps that never materialize doesn't cut it.

    I still hold out hope that they wont' give up on the OS but I think for mass consumer appeal it has a way to go still, at current rate I'd say at least another 6 months.
    11-11-2015 10:47 AM
  24. nubbikins's Avatar
    I'm somewhat with you there, but I don't agree that it is a killer. I love the new UI as it's developing but there is a TON of inconsistency everywhere. Sometimes the setting you're looking for is in a hamburger menu, sometimes it's in an ellipsis menu, sometimes it's in a pivot menu. Half the time I can't figure out where the "settings menu" is for an app. That's really the only thing that really irks me about the UI. Put things in a similar place so people can find them easily!

    Example: settings for Edge and Photos is in the ellipsis menu, settings for Outlook and One Drive is in the hamburger menu (One Drive used to be in the ellipsis menu).

    Other design inconsistencies I can live with but could make or break it for others:
    1. Menu, header and background colors. Some menus are dark gray, others are light gray, some adhere to the color scheme, then some don't adhere to the selected color scheme at all.
    2. Text sizes. Some menus have large text, while others have small text.

    I have faith that they will fix many things in the future though. Hopefully sooner than later.
    11-11-2015 10:52 AM
  25. jdawgnoonan's Avatar
    I am typing on an LG G4. I also have a Lumia 920 running the latest build of 10. Android has felt far better and polished than WM10 currently does since roughly late 2011.
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    11-11-2015 11:11 AM
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