The Windows 10 April 2018 update has arrived! Get the new Dell XPS 15, starting at $999.99
11-24-2015 02:22 AM
76 1234
tools
  1. DJCBS's Avatar
    1. Source : Siilasmaa. The talks are not live yet. But it has been retweeted by the official SlushHQ account
    2. no comment
    3. I don't care if Nokia returns or not in the phone business, I was just reporting what I heard.
    Until you can provide a source, you'll therefore understand if people doubt you. All I've read reported from Slush that he said was with concerns to a return to phone manufacturing. Which falls in line with what Nokia has been saying for ages. They're not interested in manufacturing phones.
    Manufacturing is what makes companies lose the most money. So it's only natural that Nokia only wants to manufacture themselves things that they can make a profit on, such as the OZO.
    None of that prevents Nokia to follow the normal current plan of returning to smartphones by outsourcing the manufacturing and distribution to a partner.

    Other people have said it as well, but it doesn't appear to register for some people. For all intents and purposes, Microsoft is Nokia. Microsoft bought all of the parts of Nokia that involved engineering and manufacturing mobile handsets. We may not know if it was Microsoft's push that caused the 950 to be such a conservative design, but it was designed largely by the same group that designed every other Lumia phone.
    Apparently what hasn't registered is that what you just said is completely false on several accounts ;)
    1 - Microsoft is not Nokia. Neither in their corporate values, nor their modus operandi.
    2 - Microsoft bought the manufacturing and distribution division of Nokia yes. However, it's completely false that the people working on designs etc moved to Microsoft. Actually, in case you're not aware, the "creator" of the fabula design that you saw on Nokia Lumias - Axel Meyer - remains at Nokia and is the current Head of Design at Nokia Technologies. And the creator of the Nokia 920 design from which a ton of subsequent Lumias derived - Marko Ahtisaari - left Nokia the month after they announced the acquisition of the D&S division by Microsoft.
    3 - Many engineers actually remained at Nokia since the R&D teams were not part of the deal.

    So what you have is a lot of people (including, yes, some engineers, specially from the PureView team) from manufacturing and distribution but not a lot from the design department. All the Microsoft Lumias on the market are using old designs which the engineers at Microsoft only tweaked to fit in or take out things. And that's because Nokia retained a lot of the design talent. That's why the only "patents" Microsoft got from Nokia aren't actually patents but copyrights for design portfolios. Microsoft bought the stock of designs Nokia had (including those that had been long rejected by Nokia) and has been using them.

    So until the Surface team takes full control of the handsets (which is currently happening), you'll keep seeing reused and rehashed designs from the old Nokia portfolios. But that doesn't make those Lumias, Nokias in disguise. Nor does it mean those Lumias were designed by Nokia. They were designed at Nokia. But only those that Nokia would approve would get the right to become an official Nokia design.
    Jakoh, Finchee and Zoran Selinsek like this.
    11-23-2015 09:40 AM
  2. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    Nokia's table scraps. That explains why the 950 XL is just a bigger 640 with the camera circle from the 830 on the back.
    LOL!!! The bigger version of the 640 is the 640XL not the 950XL!!!!!!!!
    11-23-2015 09:42 AM
  3. msirapian's Avatar
    Agreed with jmshub. And this debate is quite sterile because people praising Panay or Nokia are the ultimate saviour are quite desperate.

    Some fans want a Nokia device by any means, even if it's a cheap Foxconn-manufactured/distribued/maintained iPhone clone.

    Other fans (who didn't know Nokia when it was successful) want a "Surface Phone", because it's MS, because it's Panay, as if one guy woud behold the truth. A surface phone for the sake of it. Even if it took 3 iterations to have a mature Surface Pro (3).

    Both groups are desperate, to my eyes. And are doomed to be disappointed. As Dan said, no surface phone in spring 2016. And if MS is working on a entreprise device which could be the surface phone, then *maybe* it's camera will be just OK, not Pureview, etc.

    People tend to prefer ideology, principles, to facts.

    And when it comes to choose a phone, my facts are : what are my needs. My needs are 80% satisfied by a 640 : I love the design, it doesn't feel cheap, only the camera is 'meh', as I'm a mobile photographer. If the 950 fills the gap, with a Pureview camera which could replace my 1020, then I don't need a Surfacephone (at least right now), nor a "Nokia phone saving WP".

    The 950 is to the windows environment what the Nokia 808 was to Symbian: every technical specification to the max, no real compromise.

    The (new) Nokia would have to redesign/engineer something, the Saint-Panay team would have also to issue a first phone. Take the 950/XL for what it is : the expression of mutual maturity between the MS and ex-Nokia teams.

    I'm sure Panay and his team will release amazing devices, I'm not so sure the first device will be a keeper. Like the first iPhones. Like the MS band. Like the first Surfaces.

    So back to the topic: enjoy what's on the shelves, instead of praying for saviours or heroes who can't exist, or by asking too much.

    2015-2016 is not the timeframe for a Surface phone, nor a Nokia handset. But if you loved Nokia, if you love Microsoft, go and buy that 950.
    editguy likes this.
    11-23-2015 09:44 AM
  4. Slovenix's Avatar
    I'd still be happy if Nokia was the "architect" of their new phones. I liked them more than Microsoft Mobile in apps and custom features.
    11-23-2015 09:46 AM
  5. msirapian's Avatar
    Until you can provide a source, you'll therefore understand if people doubt you. All I've read reported from Slush that he said was with concerns to a return to phone manufacturing. Which falls in line with what Nokia has been saying for ages. They're not interested in manufacturing phones.
    Manufacturing is what makes companies lose the most money. So it's only natural that Nokia only wants to manufacture themselves things that they can make a profit on, such as the OZO.
    None of that prevents Nokia to follow the normal current plan of returning to smartphones by outsourcing the manufacturing and distribution to a partner.
    Of course I understand if people doubt me, but I don't care. I know what I've heard, and I've discussed this topic so many times with my Finnish friends.

    30 sec of Google brought this: Nokia Chairman: If push disruptive new phone will return - Sunning View and again, when videos are live, you'll be able to listen to the (interesting) talk yourself.

    As for the "new" strategy, it's brand-milking, and very profitable. Even without investing a lot into it, they know they are loved by a lot of people, and can generate a revenue out of their brand image. That's why they went Android, not because it was giving the finger to Microsoft (political statement), but as practical move (80% of the market).

    And I admire Nokia for that. When the board decided to desinvest from manufacturing, they've succeeded in presenting themselves as "victims" of Elop and the naughty Americans. When it was only a capitalistic (and reasonable) move. It's not the first time they do that in their history: boots, rubber, etc., when a business was no longer profitable enough, they've sold them, closed them or created spin offs. That's how a company older than the Finnish Republic survives, evolves and moves forward.

    But that's another topic (and it would be more pleasant to talk about it with a beer). The topic here is : only NOKIA can save WP, and clearly, it is not true. Only Microsoft (not the ex-Nokia part, but the software editor) can.
    11-23-2015 09:59 AM
  6. anon(7929613)'s Avatar
    The iPhone 5C has been discontinued.
    Yes they have been discontinued, but not because of their colourful design. But because it was still too costly for people who are not Apple fans.
    11-23-2015 10:56 AM
  7. feereless's Avatar
    Yes they have been discontinued, but not because of their colourful design. But because it was still too costly for people who are not Apple fans.
    and the fact that whatever cheap manufacturing processes were used lead the phone to literally fall apart... talk about an overpriced piece of crap....
    ArtificiallyYours likes this.
    11-23-2015 11:28 AM
  8. Jakoh's Avatar
    Microsoft makes amazing phones BUT they are not good in DESIGNING phones. MS is out of ideas. Lumias were unique for their design, the 930 and 830 used metal an year ago but the 950 and the 950xl use polycarbonate. Common people think that these phones are useless bcz of their boring design. SO ONLY NOKIA CAN SAVE WINDOWS MOBILE!!
    After reading the title I just wanted to come in here and say LOL
    Because if NOKIA was going to save anything, that time passed and @Moia has long moved on, the creator of the iconic N9 thus all the phones that came after it.
    Even with the N9, they didnt do anything super special (except curved glass and no button UI) for the format, a larger battery and ruggedness would have been welcomed.
    But it is good to see M$ is embracing some of Nokia's patents, atleast some of their feature in WM10. E.g. dialer that searches.
    editguy likes this.
    11-23-2015 12:11 PM
  9. Jakoh's Avatar
    The biggest critique of the 950/950 xl is Nokia's design. Microsoft stuck with old Nokia designs 2 years too long .
    I would like a phone with a Surface book hinge! scaled offcourse.
    Last edited by Jakoh; 11-23-2015 at 12:32 PM.
    11-23-2015 12:17 PM
  10. ArmandsFM's Avatar
    There is always a possibility to return to NOKIA roots by switching to Jolla phones with Sailfish OS. Jolla team is mostly made up from former NOKIA people. Interesting devices.
    11-23-2015 12:36 PM
  11. ombreman's Avatar
    NOKIA will present new phones at end of 2016. They will be android based according to some webpages.
    11-23-2015 12:43 PM
  12. Brian Mueller's Avatar
    While the basic 950 series is sort of plain, the ability to change the back plate is huge, they should have advertised this ability better. Being able to change the back plate changes the whole look and feel of the phone. But no matter how good this phone could have been, I think the Lumia brand is dead, at least for high end, and I don't think Nokia could have saved them. The only thing that can save Windows in the phone market is a true Surface Phone. Keep all the good stuff from the 950 series, Square the design a little, include a more premium basic back plate, add x86, fingerprint sensor, and pen support, maybe water proofing and windows will start to recover share in the phone space. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen, it is already happening in the Tablet sector since x86 windows tablets became the norm, Windows is winning share from Android and iOS. Additionally, Microsoft needs to 1. work on making Universal windows apps (UWP) into true Universal Apps, i.e. design once and run on Windows UWP, Windows Legacy, iOS, OSX, Android, and Linux. 2. Make a Java and swift interpreter for the .NET CORE CLR. 3. Make Objective C a first class language in Visual Studio (I believe they are already doing this). This makes Visual Studio and Windows the first stop for developers instead of a secondary or tertiary stop. 4. Make a Windows TV, that is designed like a mini Xbox but with out the console game portion. Sell this and the full xbox OS to third parties so that they can integrate them into their TVs or make their own STBs. 5. Work with 3rd party manufactures to bring TIVO like capabilities to the microsoft ecosystem through a new media center and network attached tuners. Make sure this is a cross platform product based on the Universal App design.
    11-23-2015 12:44 PM
  13. Jakoh's Avatar
    There is always a possibility to return to NOKIA roots by switching to Jolla phones with Sailfish OS. Jolla team is mostly made up from former NOKIA people. Interesting devices.
    IDK if you heard, Jolla is almost insolvent.
    Laura Knotek and editguy like this.
    11-23-2015 01:04 PM
  14. Paras Saraswat's Avatar
    Lumia don't have common apps
    ND also Lumia don't have android nd ios apps so they can't be grow up in market.
    Then Nokia also can't help ms for that.
    Because Nokia gone down in market because of android system nd its apps..
    Ps.....,
    11-23-2015 01:42 PM
  15. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    LOL!!! The bigger version of the 640 is the 640XL not the 950XL!!!!!!!!
    You mean the 950. The 950 is a bigger version of the 640 but a smaller version of the 640XL which is about the same size as the 950XL.

    They're all the same bland soap dish design.
    11-23-2015 05:27 PM
  16. Jazmac's Avatar
    Nokia probably should not have allowed one of the worse leaders technology in to run the place.aka Stephen Elop which is why they fired him Sayta didn't like his resume either which is why they cut him a check and sent him on his way.
    But the bottom line is, when the smart phone was taking off, MS wasn't exactly enthusiastic about it as they should have been. Then they delivered a cute idea but not a competitor. Microsoft Kin. I still think there is time but to make major inroads, its gonna take an android stumble to spark things and MS will have to be ready.
    Last edited by Jazmac; 11-23-2015 at 06:46 PM.
    Laura Knotek, Guytronic and DJCBS like this.
    11-23-2015 06:15 PM
  17. anon(3463402)'s Avatar
    Don't expect anyone to "save Windows Phone" as there is no need for that.

    Microsoft will do the job here, and I'm sure the future of Windows Mobile is bright.
    11-23-2015 06:52 PM
  18. DJCBS's Avatar
    IDK if you heard, Jolla is almost insolvent.
    Perfect time to buy them and put the engineers back where they belong: at Nokia ;P

    That said, I don't think at all Sailfish OS or MeeGo is the way to go for Nokia. The way to go is Android. And within Android, present some truly compelling high end devices (I can see durability, health and camera tech as the main focus). If necessary, I think Nokia could even opt for an invite-system like OnePlus does, by which they see how many people are actually interested in the devices and have them produced only according to the demand (instead of the traditional "let's make an estimate"). It's annoying to get a phone that way? Yes. But I think it's the best way for Nokia to return. Baby steps.
    11-23-2015 08:26 PM
  19. DJCBS's Avatar
    Nokia probably should not have allowed one of the worse leaders technology in to run the place.aka Stephen Elop which is why they fired him Sayta didn't like his resume either which is why they cut him a check and sent him on his way.
    We have a saying over here: "Roma no paga a traidores" which roughly translates to "Rome doesn't pay to traitors". That's basically what happened if you ask me :P
    11-23-2015 08:27 PM
  20. elindalyne's Avatar
    Nokia was pretty much bankrupt when Microsoft took over their phone division. The market hasn't responded exceptionally favorably to Nokia's design. They do not need them to save the phones.
    editguy and anon(3463402) like this.
    11-23-2015 08:47 PM
  21. KDoubleU's Avatar
    The most beautifully designed smartphone ever was the Lumia 925 IMO
    editguy likes this.
    11-23-2015 09:25 PM
  22. scandiskwindows9x's Avatar
    but only weaks in marketing for overseas Microsoft, windows phone and Lumia would be sucessfull if they take an worldwide ads campaign to every country but just by stay now in the comfort zone and staying in Europe,USA and India will Windows mobile fail not because the OS be bad but the product without ADS just to the people do not exist
    11-23-2015 10:12 PM
  23. scandiskwindows9x's Avatar
    Nokia was pretty much bankrupt when Microsoft took over their phone division. The market hasn't responded exceptionally favorably to Nokia's design. They do not need them to save the phones.
    the Nokia reputation was the high quality of the product
    11-23-2015 10:17 PM
  24. editguy's Avatar
    Perfect time to buy them and put the engineers back where they belong: at Nokia ;P

    That said, I don't think at all Sailfish OS or MeeGo is the way to go for Nokia. The way to go is Android. And within Android, present some truly compelling high end devices (I can see durability, health and camera tech as the main focus). If necessary, I think Nokia could even opt for an invite-system like OnePlus does, by which they see how many people are actually interested in the devices and have them produced only according to the demand (instead of the traditional "let's make an estimate"). It's annoying to get a phone that way? Yes. But I think it's the best way for Nokia to return. Baby steps.
    Yeah, because all of the android manufacturers are getting rich. /s Aside from Samsung, there is no wildly successful android phone. There are too many android phones. Nokia won't get any traction from Android. They will just be back to struggling to get sales. I liked all of my Nokia phones. My N8's camera was really nice. But I have no interest in buying an Android Nokia. I would have more interest if they tried a comeback with Symbian (but I still wouldn't buy one. Nokia has no chance at a big comeback in the cell phone business. None. They need to move on and embrace the business ventures that they have.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-24-2015 02:01 AM
  25. Powrna's Avatar
    It is better to give back the deal to Nokia.
    Nokia will make Android and Windows phones.......
    And will be in the top of the list in short time.
    Nokia is always greater than MS in mobile sales
    Microsoft will stick to the Surface devices...
    11-24-2015 02:17 AM
76 1234

Similar Threads

  1. Is the 950 and 950XL running windows 10?
    By taymur in forum Microsoft Lumia 950
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 11-30-2015, 03:25 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-23-2015, 12:59 AM
  3. Why is Windows 8.1 music app not working on my Windows phone?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Applications
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-22-2015, 07:31 AM
  4. Windows hello
    By Jenson Neill1 in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-22-2015, 02:37 AM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-22-2015, 12:03 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD