12-07-2015 01:11 AM
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  1. OldAndBusted's Avatar
    "I miss the clean, beautiful interface of WP" For me, there's no such thing. Windows Phone is not attractive. Especially the Start screen. It is really just two-bag coyote ugly. I personally believe it's THE major factor why Windows Phone never took off.

    That said, I still want it to succeed. I want that third OS. I'm tired of iOS and don't care for Google's business model.
    12-05-2015 10:01 PM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Yes I already know they are cross platform :))
    When (As in what did it take for) did BBM become cross platform? I apologize for the ambiguity
    BBM would've gone cross-platform sooner if Jim Balsillie had his way. He wanted to do that when he was still one of the co-CEOs. I read that in "Losing the Signal", the book about BlackBerry. It didn't happen until Balsillie and Lazaridis were forced out. As for dates, it happened in September 2013 for Android and iOS. Windows Phone got BBM in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Messenger
    Last edited by Laura Knotek; 12-06-2015 at 12:05 AM.
    12-05-2015 11:47 PM
  3. Yangstax's Avatar
    So Windows Phone is basically done from an OS level. However, Microsoft should not abandon the hardware. They should still have a platform that can act as a reference platform for their applications and services. They should still release the Surface Phone...but with one caveat.
    WP8.1 is done but W10M is just starting. WP8.1 is just another standalone handsets with WP8.1 OS that is not even compatible with W7. W10M however will grow along with W10 ecosystem and UWP. W10M will have strong showing in the enterprises as demonstrated in UK (28%) and France (25%). App gap is much less an issue in the business and enterprise sectors. The security, management, intelligent Cloud and one-stop shop tech support mean substantial cost savings for the enterprises. W10M will be even more attractive to them with the new enterprise features W10 provides. The explosive growth of W10 will drive the growth of UW apps which will certainly benefit the W10M phones over time. W10M will grow with W10 in harmony. It can't die even it wants to. WP is certainly NOT done even you are done with it.

    You will miss a few things when you leave:

    1. If you are a W10 user, you would certainly miss the full synchronization, integration and unification with W10.
    2. The most efficient and productive Live Tiles UI which is completely customizable.
    3. The fantastic experience with the innovative Continuum.
    12-06-2015 12:09 AM
  4. ScubaDog's Avatar
    Except for some of us Windows 10 Mobile is utter garbage compared to WP8. The direction Satya Nadella and his cronies are taking it is NOT where we wanted to go when we jumped on this bandwagon. It's not us who gave up. It's Microsoft.
    12-06-2015 12:51 AM
  5. Ben Wolgus's Avatar
    Android is not a cure all. HTC, Sony, and LG are all failing to gain traction with Android. It's really Samsung made a beautiful phone over the operating system. Samsung is the real star, not android.
    JohnBarry2 likes this.
    12-06-2015 01:04 AM
  6. ntice_521's Avatar
    Android is not a cure all. HTC, Sony, and LG are all failing to gain traction with Android. It's really Samsung made a beautiful phone over the operating system. Samsung is the real star, not android.
    Samsung just took advantage of Apple's stupidity (not making larger phones) and marketed well.
    12-06-2015 01:11 AM
  7. Ruster Kat's Avatar
    This post is really helpful to me right now. I'm still using my 920 and I really, really wanted to get a 950 or XL... but the reports of all the bugs and issues with W10m vs 8.1 has me back up on the fence. I'm so sick of waiting. I don't care at all for iOS, but realistically, for what I use my phone for it seems I could be more 'productive like a Boss' with an iPhone and banking apps, etc. than I can with a 950XL on W10m. Maybe I'll wait until after Xmas and see if things improve... I don't know. Sick of waiting. Sick sick sick of it. I don't think I can stick with WP just for the OS any longer...

    Herb, someone above dealt with the camera on Android side. I'll address iPhone from my experience. I'm a long-time Microsoft "fan" and shareholder, and a software developer. I don't like Mac or Google, and own nothing but Windows machines (currently, Dell XPS desktop, Acer laptop, Dell Venue Pro 8 -- still a great little tablet -- and Surface Pro 3). I had Windows Phones (owned and loved the MotoQ and HTC Touch when they were released) until late 2010. Since then, iPhone 4 for four years and iPhone 6 for one year.

    Especially with Nadella (wisely) putting Microsoft services and software everywhere, I can't think of a single reason to stay with Windows Phone right now, alas. The iPhone 6 is better on every count, and it kills me to say that. The build quality, the outstanding operating system, the availability of apps, and the excellent camera. (I am not a photographer enthusiast, I just use auto mode, but the photos are always great). I'm neither a gamer nor a social app user; the iPhone is just an outstanding device, and a very serious productivity tool.

    I keep a 635 around both for development and to keep up with the Windows Mobile insider builds (disappointing quality and fit-and-finish, so far), and to occasionally play around with. I develop Windows Phone apps and have played around a bit with the UWP, which is a delight to code against. The phone is AT&T, which I'm no longer on, so I can't use it as a SIM-swap backup device, but would if I could. There is nothing that it does as well as the iPhone (again, I hate to admit that).

    What I would recommend is to get the iPhone 6s for your carrier from the Apple store. I'm pretty sure there is a 30-day return policy, and you probably won't have an activation fee. Try it out for a few weeks. If you really miss your Windows Phone, you can go back at zero (or close to) cost.

    On the topic of the state of Windows Phone/Mobile, it's very clear that the division has been poorly managed for many years, all the way up to the top. I think Nadella is doing the right thing for the company, and he's been very clear about what he's doing. Windows Mobile is in (yet another) transitional phase. Things are a bit bumpy right now. If Microsoft can ship a great piece of hardware in 12-18 months (and Panos' team seems like the right group to do this), and somehow address the horrendous app gap issue (whether UWP or bridges or something else), I would love to go back to Windows Phone then.

    At this specific point in time, though, you really should give the iPhone a try. It's just so much better right now.
    12-06-2015 01:33 AM
  8. Alex Athanasiou's Avatar
    The title is one of absolute contradiction. As an AC/DC fan I don't need to listen to their music.
    12-06-2015 05:22 AM
  9. cracgor's Avatar
    The title is one of absolute contradiction. As an AC/DC fan I don't need to listen to their music.
    Is more like all I used to listen to was the one cd I had. Then one day someone showed me mp3s and streaming music. Now I realize that the world has a lot more to offer.
    12-06-2015 05:37 AM
  10. scanper's Avatar
    I have had a similar experience.

    I moved to iPhone a few months ago because of my job. The iPhone irritates me in a few places (the long list of apps on the start screen that absolutely must be left/top justified, the lack of useful info on the start screen, the crappy keyboards, etc). However, that is compensated for by a massive list of fully functional apps including all my MS Apps. OneNote is fine, OneDrive is fine, Office is there, Xbox is there (but i dont use it). The hardware is very nice. I was tempted by the idea of continuum, but my company has gone O365 so I can get my work email on just about any device.

    Combine that with my dislike of the new lumias (I loved that design 4 years ago, but its been around for a long time and been cost optimised to hell) and a dislike of a lot of the changes in Win10 mobile and I find myself as increasingly happy iPhone user. I have no great love for the product, but it is a well functioning tool.

    For MS to get me back to consider Windows phone they would need to create some really excellent hardware and solve the app problem. For me to buy they would also need to offer something compelling with SW and services on top of that. Somehow I dont see that happening as the MS apps and services are targetted cross platform, with the only limitation being what the iOS and Android SDKs allow.
    bradm77 and Varun Rajan like this.
    12-06-2015 05:58 AM
  11. Diego De Mauro's Avatar
    I have my lumia "630" and I also dropped it not twice but thrice... for almost 6 ft. high and it fell off on a rock... But the screen is still totally fine! What's wrong with your phone?
    Last edited by Diego De Mauro; 12-06-2015 at 06:23 AM. Reason: Quoted didnt work
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    12-06-2015 06:22 AM
  12. dodi779's Avatar
    I'm here since WP 6.2, I don't even know how long that is... feels like ages. I think what the most of us, real fans would like to see, is to finally kick android and ios out of the game. has not happened again (feel a bit of shame).really love the interface here on WP, love my windows on my PC, even more I do love my Xbox One.

    I'm not commenting a lot, but I need to write this down now :) couple of points and my, short opinion.
    1. for a surface phone it is simply not the right time, WP, our OS is still struggling
    2. app gap..... I don't care about Facebook, don't even know what's snapchat :) i don't care.. but I do know that whatever accessory I'm looking at on the net, it always says android and ios. getting tired of this, for real... i can't get anything, because my phone is not supporting anything :) oh-oh....
    3. i think i get myself the new lumia, but my stomach says, something is not ok. the phone looks ugly, wp10 is not ready, app gap still there.

    this company has more money then any other in the world in this business, I'm pretty sure they invest more than any competitor. they will get it done properly, they just need more time.

    still... if they don't get it done within the next 1-2 years. i will think about to sell everything, my windows pc with my xbox one and whatever wp phone...

    the new lumias are cool, but holy sh^%t is that ugly! :D I will get one anyway, but let's face the truth. ugliest phone in 2015.

    keep up the good work Microsoft, I still have faith in you, but that won't last forever.
    i can feel the people, who are not willing to wait further, i dont care about the cam... im not a photographer... if they would have a phone without a cam, im the first buyer!

    think i could sit here and write for hours :) the whole new tech war, phones, phablets, smart tvs, smart everything.... it is a huge and complex thing, and we want them all working together, but you need to think about it again, this whole era has only started a couple of years ago. think in 10-20 years things will finally work, at least standard things. one day i hope to have one device that can do work with everything, it doesnt have to be in a form of a phone... im ok with a microchip in the back of my head as well :D but it has to come. its not ok that im the fan of a brand or device, the brand or device should be my fan. they should support me, simple as that.

    nice day to everyone!
    Varun Rajan and Kevin Rush like this.
    12-06-2015 06:40 AM
  13. bradm77's Avatar
    WP8.1 is done but W10M is just starting. WP8.1 is just another standalone handsets with WP8.1 OS that is not even compatible with W7. W10M however will grow along with W10 ecosystem and UWP. W10M will have strong showing in the enterprises as demonstrated in UK (28%) and France (25%). App gap is much less an issue in the business and enterprise sectors.
    Certainly not true in my case. Spiceworks, Connectwise, LogmeIn are all apps I NEED to do my job in IT. If Snapchat came to WP tomorrow it wouldn't help me get off IOS and back to WP. But that's just me, YMMV.
    garak0410 likes this.
    12-06-2015 06:41 AM
  14. Varun Rajan's Avatar
    Android is not a cure all. HTC, Sony, and LG are all failing to gain traction with Android. It's really Samsung made a beautiful phone over the operating system. Samsung is the real star, not android.
    Thats your opinion without android there aint any samsung
    12-06-2015 06:59 AM
  15. Chad Welsh's Avatar
    I am sure most adults would agree that SnapChat is a app for the adolescent minded whether used by young or old.


    I don't think my wife's iPhone battery is any worse than any I have on windows phone. She may use it more since switching on a consistent basis, but she does not have to charge it during the day.

    I think calling SnapChat an app for teenagers shows how out of touch people are. All age groups use it. I don't understand it anymore than I understand why instagram, vine, or twitter took off, but it has.

    Worldwide...no time to look up country by country.

    IDC: Smartphone OS Market Share 2015, 2014, 2013, and 2012
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    12-06-2015 06:59 AM
  16. Varun Rajan's Avatar
    Except for some of us Windows 10 Mobile is utter garbage compared to WP8. The direction Satya Nadella and his cronies are taking it is NOT where we wanted to go when we jumped on this bandwagon. It's not us who gave up. It's Microsoft.
    I too have the same feeling. Its microsoft who gave up on us.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    12-06-2015 07:00 AM
  17. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Certainly not true in my case. Spiceworks, Connectwise, LogmeIn are all apps I NEED to do my job in IT. If Snapchat came to WP tomorrow it wouldn't help me get off IOS and back to WP. But that's just me, YMMV.
    "Try new apps. Try something new."
    Maybe, try some new apps. It's a good idea to check out new apps, even if you don't change phones.
    12-06-2015 07:06 AM
  18. t8ntlikly's Avatar
    I've been using Windows circa Windows 1, and you can make that a +1 I too after suffering through the fact that on Verizon there won't be a new phone coming from Redmond, and other problems, I just don't need the grievance. I don't need that many apps, so that is not the problem. The problem is inconsistency. Outlook.com, no groups? Windows phone and Windows 10 Mobile people groups... Limit 25? WTH? And those groups don't show up in Outlook, or Outlook.com because of the Exchange Active Sync..... Just sayin..It's the little things that Microsoft is taking away from the consumer, the average Joe, that eventually MAY lead to the phones demise....
    12-06-2015 07:19 AM
  19. Rishabh Shukla's Avatar
    Seriously, No one needs Windows 10 Mobile, not even Windows 10 fans at least for this year.
    I think I was the blind supporter for Windows phone (Lumia) till now but now even I am thinking about some replacement for my Lumia 830 within 5-6 Month. It`s good phone but market has already plenty of better and smarter phone than this. Here are some points which I have in my mind:
    1. Why Microsoft is selling 950 XL on $740 in INDIA?? Especially when they have a not so good design with just one feature (Continuum) to compare.
    2. No Need to mention for so called App-Gap.
    3. They had so many better Lumias lineup but production/development has been cancelled especially when they can not deliver a perfect
    4. Lumia/Windows Phone.... Why?
    5. Even due to compatibility issue (As developer says) we are not getting many functions as compare to iOS or Android guys.
    6. May be I`m jealous with android users because they have so many options with almost everything including Hardware and Software and may be my next phone could be an Android phone, here is one thing I don`t get it why Microsoft always sell their mid-range phones with the price of High-end phones.
    7. No Doubt Microsoft Phone has a great Hardware but why just Hardware not software??? Experiences of Microsoft Apps are much better on other platforms than Windows Phone.
    8. The worst part is that like any other companies even if Microsoft is releasing any new software, it releases first on Android and iOS and here users of Windows phone have to wait for few weeks/month.
    9. Eagerly waiting for NOKIA`s comeback in 2017 it seems NOKIA can do a lot better in this case.
    Anyway Thanks Arsynic for pointing it again.
    I can Only hope for the best
    12-06-2015 07:47 AM
  20. cracgor's Avatar
    I have had a similar experience.

    I moved to iPhone a few months ago because of my job. The iPhone irritates me in a few places (the long list of apps on the start screen that absolutely must be left/top justified, the lack of useful info on the start screen, the crappy keyboards, etc). However, that is compensated for by a massive list of fully functional apps including all my MS Apps. OneNote is fine, OneDrive is fine, Office is there, Xbox is there (but i dont use it). The hardware is very nice. I was tempted by the idea of continuum, but my company has gone O365 so I can get my work email on just about any device.

    Combine that with my dislike of the new lumias (I loved that design 4 years ago, but its been around for a long time and been cost optimised to hell) and a dislike of a lot of the changes in Win10 mobile and I find myself as increasingly happy iPhone user. I have no great love for the product, but it is a well functioning tool.

    For MS to get me back to consider Windows phone they would need to create some really excellent hardware and solve the app problem. For me to buy they would also need to offer something compelling with SW and services on top of that. Somehow I dont see that happening as the MS apps and services are targetted cross platform, with the only limitation being what the iOS and Android SDKs allow.
    And as compelling as continuum is, it is really not that much harder to carry around a computer stick than it is the docking station. Continuum is awesome, but if miracast worked without the delay, it would be a true game changer. Whenever I cast something, it is really only useful for watching video, since the delay is only noticed when you try to interact -- move a mouse cursor, type, etc.
    12-06-2015 07:47 AM
  21. Donald Simard's Avatar
    I think what confuses people is the definition of "Platform". Is it the Hardware, Operating System or the APPS? If someone
    drops a Microsoft phone for IOS or Android with a large number of Microsoft Apps, did they abandon the Microsoft platform or move to a different instance of the Microsoft Platform, their APPs? Microsoft is not a solely hardware company, it is also an OS and a cloud platform provider.
    Last edited by Donald Simard; 12-06-2015 at 08:17 AM.
    12-06-2015 08:05 AM
  22. daniel_leavitt2000's Avatar
    I think if WP10 fails and at this point I think it may, Microsoft will embrace droid. I can see them building hardware, plus a locked down and clean version much like Blackberry is doing.

    It's really only about Microsoft's core apps. I'm no Google fan, but Android can be made to run well. It's just no one out there CHOOSES to do so. They rather get the kick backs installing apps for telecoms.

    But imagine a totally clean Android kernel. On top of this you have the live tiles of WP, all the MS core apps, and the Lumia suite of photography apps. With hardware produced by MS and security provided by Google (on the kernel level) and MS (as the gate keeper to apps and services).

    Yeah, I could see myself using a phone like that.
    12-06-2015 08:16 AM
  23. thetruth1960's Avatar
    MS has indirectly paid my bills for the last 25+ years since I've been developing in the MS platform for that long.
    I had WM 6+ before WP. I bought the Samsung WP when it first came out. Then I went to L900 and for the last 3 years I've had 3 L920s in our house.

    Friday I got my two new shining L640. Why? Because they were only $40 on Black Friday. However, my son is getting an Android Moto X Pure for Christmas. That phone specs wise is very comparable to the L950xl. It is hundreds of dollars cheaper and has "no app gap". My son will continue to use the MS services he uses, but like the OP said, with much better functionality than the WM version developed by MS itself.

    I've also owned an Xbox for over 13 years. Just two weeks ago I bought a PS4. Why, very simple. Im into car racing games. A few years ago I bought a wheel for my Xbox 360. At the time the wheel was compatible with the Xbox 360, of course, the PC and the PS3. Then the Xbox One came out. Guess what, the wheel is not supported in the Xbox One. Now, a few racing games that I wanted are only available on the New Gen consoles (both the Xbox One and the PS4.) For me to go with an Xbox one, I would not only have to buy the Xbox, but I would also have to buy a new wheel. My original wheel investment was over $500. Well, that old wheel that came out before the Xbox One or PS4 came to market, IS compatible with the PS4 but not the Xbox one. Why would I then buy an Xbox One so that on top of the machine expense itself, I would have to buy another wheel? Makes no sense. Of course in the Xbox case the number of people that are racing fans is not as large as the ones that dont so buying an extra controller is not as huge as an expense as buying a new wheel setup. So the Xbox overall is doing okay (okay because for years it has been behind PS4 in sales.) But this just another example of MS letting its fans down.

    Why am I talking about the Xbox/PS4 in this post?

    As a 25+ years of developing for the Microsoft platform and being a fanboy. I now have purchased an Android phone for my son and a PS4. MS is pushing me away in some respects.
    Will I still develop for the MS platform? Yes, I will. However, with Visual Studio I will also be developing Android and iOS applications for my clients systems that I develop for them. There is no way my client will justify the development of a WM application when there is no market for it. It is possible that a Windows 10 desktop application might work for my clients and that case, yes it will be a Universal App just because it is there. But not because the clients would need it in WM10.

    Bottom line, I think many people, after 5 years of failures with the MS mobile platform, are looking other ways to fulfill their needs.

    People complain about Steve Ballmer and how Satya is doing so much better. Yes, maybe Satya is doing better for MSs bottom line (which is of course important) but this post is not about MSs bottom line. It is about WM. When it comes to that. Steve, after making the huge mistake of not staying on top of the WM environment, try to rectify it by buying Nokia so MS could have its own mobile division. Then came Satya. He fired 18000 people. He stopped all development of all flagship Lumia phones. And he directed the teams to develop better mobile applications for other platforms instead of his own. To me, Satya is not doing better for the WP/WM landscape. Hes actually pushed many people to other platforms as the OP said. There is no MS service (with exception of Cortana and that is coming) that he cant get from his new Android. And the same is true with iOS.
    RhinoFreak and Kram Sacul like this.
    12-06-2015 09:01 AM
  24. cawafuoshi's Avatar
    I do not see WP or 10 Mobile being a dead end. For Microsoft to succeed they do not need to beat Android nor iOS.

    Don't know if they measure success in profits or rather market share (or both or not at all), but quitting Win 10 Mobile or the phone business at all would basically negate the whole philosophy this platform is built on and touted as. I can see light at the end of the tunnel with the Surface line helping universal apps.

    As for my needs, I am platform agnostic. Currently using a 640, having a second line using the underrated Moto E, and my iOs needs are taken care of by my iPad. That pretty much covers all and everything perhaps not in one device but still. I do not need to ditch Lumia and WP just for that one app or function.
    Muessig, dgr_874 and RhinoFreak like this.
    12-06-2015 09:17 AM
  25. laserfloyd's Avatar
    Thats your opinion without android there aint any samsung
    Samsung was around way before Android. It's just that Android has made them a LOT of money. Samsung would still exist quite nicely without Android. Owned several Samsung products years before smart phones even existed.
    Varun Rajan likes this.
    12-06-2015 09:23 AM
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