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  1. Jazmac's Avatar
    I think the person in question here either misspoke or was misunderstood. We would not just accept, nor settle for, 3rd place in Mobile for Windows. We’ve released great new devices, a new converged OS, and a new Universal Windows Apps platform just this year. All of these are clear investments and show our commitment to a great Windows experience across a broad range of devices.
    beer-cheers.jpg
    xandros9 and jmshub like this.
    12-16-2015 08:47 AM
  2. MysticForce's Avatar
    Microsoft should make app first for Windows users. Then weeks or months letter for Android and iOS.
    I don't care for MCSF excuses, if i can buy their product and respect their work as a user I expect from them to respect me.



    Everything else is nonsense.


    If you pay the hairdresser, I expect haircut to me, not to do haircut to my neighbor. It's only logic thing.
    12-16-2015 08:51 AM
  3. locodice's Avatar
    Totally agree with the above post.
    12-16-2015 10:29 AM
  4. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    If you look on the back of most if not all of MSFT's latest devices what image do you see?? The ever popular four squares symmetrically aligned to form a window. Windows has been the face of MSFT so why wouldn't that be the emphasis. Let us not forget that MSFT is a software company who is trying to expound its reach into the hardware realm. This doesn't mean that they are ignoring Windows mobile, but they are already conditioned to produce Windows for everyone. They've been doing that for decades, so why stop?? People keep saying the Office suite is more functional on other OS's, but at least for me, I don't see it that way. Word, Power point, Excel, Access, One Note, Sway, they all work just fine on my 940XL, but it's who they all work in relation to their Win10 desktop variants that make the performance on Windows mobile stand out to me. With universal apps when MSFT pushes out an update to the desktop Office suite, they will be pushing an update to the mobile one as well. I don't see that as third party.
    libra89 and RumoredNow like this.
    12-16-2015 10:39 AM
  5. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I think the person in question here either misspoke or was misunderstood. We would not just accept, nor settle for, 3rd place in Mobile for Windows. Weve released great new devices, a new converged OS, and a new Universal Windows Apps platform just this year. All of these are clear investments and show our commitment to a great Windows experience across a broad range of devices.
    You can tell the folks at MS that you have poopyfingers stamp of approval.

    Microsoft should make app first for Windows users. Then weeks or months letter for Android and iOS.
    I don't care for MCSF excuses, if i can buy their product and respect their work as a user I expect from them to respect me.



    Everything else is nonsense.


    If you pay the hairdresser, I expect haircut to me, not to do haircut to my neighbor. It's only logic thing.
    It has nothing to do with that. Bad comparison.

    If you already have a framework on the other OS's that you have built upon, it's easier to update and add to it.

    If you're building from the ground up it takes longer. You must have seen how app updates have improved a lot of apps over the period you have been testing Windows 10.

    I mean take the maps app, it now has traffic cameras built in. It's awesome.

    Mail is consistently getting better with linked inboxes, ability to empty folder and select all messages. This sort of stuff shows that it's a project started from scratch. Hence why select all was never available, or any of those basic features. This also allows emphasis on optimization and to build a core that allows you to easily add more features in the future.

    Applications are thousands of lines of code, you don't just click on a magic button and your app is built. Think about how much work MS has been putting into all these tools like in visual studio, feature improvements, bug fixing, optimization, building for cross device use. You can't think of it as a simple project. And all this has to come together from different groups and become a single entity. And you are now seeing more universal apps coming out because MS has worked on tools that allow for it. Those apps are coming because of all the work they are doing. Making the developers lives easier is the most important factor if you want your apps.
    Last edited by xandros9; 12-16-2015 at 02:26 PM. Reason: ,erging
    libra89 and gcyoung like this.
    12-16-2015 12:15 PM
  6. DBrandUSA's Avatar
    My post wasn't meant to stir anything, I posted it after I had the time to settle at home after such a long and draining meeting. I've been a die hard windows fan for over 20 years. I've made excuses for Microsoft over and over. I don't care if the Microsoft employee spoke incorrectly, he still said it! Afterwards, I felt really mad as I was holding my $800 paperweight (Lumia 950 XL). I also have a company iPhone and the same apps have way more features and are better polished. What he stated was fact in my opinion based on my own experiences. Luckily the meeting was recorded so if anyone wants proof I can export just that part of the audio.
    chmun77 and arwars like this.
    12-16-2015 05:12 PM
  7. gcyoung's Avatar
    I think the salient data point here is that Microsoft has just done a total reset on Windows Mobile.

    From an app perspective, it means that, as a poster above stated, apps are being developed almost from scratch for the WinMo platform, which means that there will be both a lag in new apps coming out and some feature-disparity compared to apps on more mature platforms. It's also important to keep in mind that Microsoft's mobile platform market share is right now microscopic compared to the big two. So, right now, if you're in a software product group, inside of Microsoft or not, you're going to want your application(s) to be best-in-class on the leading platforms. It would be foolish not to.

    From a "commitment" to the WinMo platform, it means that Microsoft is investing a massive amount of (limited, even for Microsoft) resources in that platform. If Microsoft were not committed to WinMo, it could have saved a whole lot of money (and headache) by just letting 8.1 die on the vine. They haven't.

    In the short term, this means that the app gap, both in terms of quality and quantity, is and will remain very real. It means that the WinMo platform and app ecosystem will be developing very quickly (as we see with the OS and app updates and releases). In the longer term -- one-year plus? -- if Microsoft is successful, we'll see a vastly improved mobile OS with a few important differentiators, and a significant closing in the app gap.

    For now, fasten your seat belts. It's going to be an exhilarating, and bumpy, ride. Buckle up and enjoy!
    jmshub, RumoredNow and a5cent like this.
    12-17-2015 02:54 AM
  8. TheFerrango's Avatar
    Do Android & i phones have the fake/scam apps too? Or is that a Microsoft store issue?
    Oh they have, they have so many of them! They have so many scam apps that they can actually choose who gets to scam them. Not like us WP users, who are stuck with the usual 2-3 scammers at best
    DBrandUSA, libra89 and RumoredNow like this.
    12-17-2015 03:14 AM
  9. Stamper_wc's Avatar
    This week I have been reading the forums, looking for information on when Windows 10 mobile was going to be launched. I have been reading so many poorly written posts (no arguments whatsoever) that sounded to me like a bunch of whining children who wants to have their new free toy now instead of waiting for it to be finished. So much criticism for an unfinished mobile OS we get to try and build together... This thread, however, is shining negatively on Microsoft but with some very constructive arguments. Considering the case that the representative is telling his customers that Microsoft isn't putting W10M in their prime focus, I do nt believe him one bit.

    It is hard to evaluate his statements completely and without bias without any context. Therefor, reading about it through a forumpost should make the statement as believable as a green brick telling himself he is red. But if we were to speculate...

    - If a Microsoft representative has the balls to put his own company in such a negative light, what can we say about that representative? Right now, the community is pissed off about, what I consider, very small reasons, so a disgruntled representative is easy to believe. However, if an employee is shouting this to his customers, than I don't believe him as he isn't probably such a swell and loyal guy himself. Not someone very believable in my book.
    - What title does the representative hold within Microsoft? Normally, marketing representatives get their stories from someone else and their job is to make it sound convincing. How is it that someone (pardon my words here, I do believe everyone is equal. I simply mean hierarchical) at the bottom of the foodchain is able to reliably communicate a stance from an enormous company like Microsoft that goes against what every other representative says? He is not in a technical department and he is not a manager. So how would he know what is focussed on and what not? Except if he heard it from someone else, who heard it from someone else who...

    I do believe you heard the representative say that; I am just trying to critically assess the (probable) truth behind his words. My guess is that he is not happy in his position or he heard it from someone who is not happy with their position. There is no evidence to his words. Only thing we know for sure is that he believes the focus is not on W10M.

    Still, an enormous miss by Microsoft to have such representatives representing their company.
    Last edited by Stamper_wc; 12-17-2015 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Typo, small addition
    anachrotech likes this.
    12-17-2015 09:22 AM
  10. arwars's Avatar
    I think the person in question here either misspoke or was misunderstood. We would not just accept, nor settle for, 3rd place in Mobile for Windows. Weve released great new devices, a new converged OS, and a new Universal Windows Apps platform just this year. All of these are clear investments and show our commitment to a great Windows experience across a broad range of devices.
    I don't think they misspoke at all. I was raised to believe that actions speak louder than words... and MSFTs actions certainly do.

    MSFT is quick to release something half-baked on WM, but fully baked and continually improved upon on iOS and Android. Please, keep the new releases... they just sit there unattended, forgotten about or discontinued.

    Give us a MSFT that continually updates what it owns...on it's own platform FIRST (at a minimum, I understand 'services everywhere'). Allow the feature parity to flow downhill from the WM platform and not downhill TO it!

    Give us a MSFT that includes the full list of features that they present to their competitors.

    MSFT lacked loyalty and now we, the users are not loyal as well.

    I swear that everyone at MSFT uses iOS or Droid as their personal phones otherwise there may be some incentive to make WM10 a top-notch platform and WM10 apps the apps everyone talks about.

    Yes, I am a disgruntled user and one of the many who jumped ship to the competitors you give the features to. I believed and believed in something that should have been unbelievable (MSFT)...but ultimately just wasn't.. it was supposed to be 'coming soon'. From 6.5 through 7, 8, 8.1 and now 10. MSFT app parity is null on its own... I'm talking about 3rd party developers.. I'm talking about MSFT!

    Be Productive like a Boss.... on iOS.
    12-17-2015 12:32 PM
  11. Joe Acerbic's Avatar
    apps are being developed almost from scratch for the WinMo platform
    Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of scheme that if you already got a Windows 10 app, making it into a Windows 10 Mobile app only requires some mods but not developing it from scratch...? Did MS lose the source code for Office apps?
    Ian_Superfly and theefman like this.
    12-17-2015 12:38 PM
  12. arwars's Avatar
    .
    Honestly, I thought OneNote Mobile was a UWP and supposed to be the same on Mobile (phone) and PC (tablet or desktop). Apparently, I was wrong. Much of the functionality of the OneNote store app in Windows 10 for PC is removed for OneNote for Windows 10 Mobile on the phone.

    From what I understand, many of these apps are supposed to have expanded display scaling when used with continuum. I'd like to know from someone who is using Continuum if these features return to match the OneNote store app for the PC.
    This!
    Ian_Superfly and rhapdog like this.
    12-17-2015 12:41 PM
  13. rhapdog's Avatar
    MSFT is quick to release something half-baked on WM, but fully baked and continually improved upon on iOS and Android. Please, keep the new releases... they just sit there unattended, forgotten about or discontinued.
    Actually, the Office Apps were first released in a much more complete way on Windows Mobile, and were released with very few features, with many features missing or crippled, on Android and iOS. It has taken years of development to get Android and iOS where they are today.

    All of the Office Apps are getting very frequent and regular updates on Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile. Windows Phone 8.1 had Office baked into the OS, which was a mistake, because it took an OS update and getting that through carriers to update it. Microsoft has gotten smart and disconnected everything like that from the OS for 10, and turned everything in to Store Apps that can be updated.

    Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of scheme that if you already got a Windows 10 app, making it into a Windows 10 Mobile app only requires some mods but not developing it from scratch...? Did MS lose the source code for Office apps?
    The Office Mobile apps, or touch apps for Office, have been re-written from scratch in order to fully optimize them with the new Windows 10 core. The Office app in WP8.1 was baked into the OS, and wasn't written in a way that would be able to be ported to tablets and PCs for touch, so new touch apps were written, supposedly as UWP, in order to take advantage of the range of devices.

    Yes, most apps can be ported over easily, but Microsoft made a mistake in the way the Office app was developed for WP8.1, so they ditched it.
    libra89 likes this.
    12-17-2015 03:37 PM
  14. elindalyne's Avatar
    The W10M office apps work as well or better than the iOS or Android apps... Whoever said what they said will probably end up getting fired.

    You don't invest billions of dollars retooling your entire OS codebase if you're going to treat part of that like "a third class citizen". The UWP push is already starting to work. We're seeing new apps every day.

    Seriously whoever things that Microsoft isn't serious in the mobile space needs to a head check.
    12-17-2015 03:54 PM
  15. Joe Acerbic's Avatar
    The W10M office apps work as well or better than the iOS or Android apps.
    Sorry, no. It may seem like I keep harping about OneNote, but it is the app I use all the time, about 100 times more than Word or Excel, and the fact that the W10M version has nothing but the most basic functions is the reason why I'm still not buying a Windows phone even now when the hardware finally is available. Just can't stand the stupidity...
    xandros9, DBrandUSA and arwars like this.
    12-17-2015 04:24 PM
  16. seb_r's Avatar
    Sorry, no. It may seem like I keep harping about OneNote, but it is the app I use all the time, about 100 times more than Word or Excel, and the fact that the W10M version has nothing but the most basic functions is the reason
    Totally agree with you. I don't know what most people do with Office that they not already ran into some of the limitation of the WP version. Also, why should it be different with Office than any other App: the Windows Apps always lacks features or functionality compared to their Android or iOS counterparts.
    Do you really think Aul would tell if MSFT has given up on W10M internally already and is only driving things with handbrake on? Some people are really painfully naive here I have to say.
    Everybody can answer the question if you simply summarize the events of the past few months. Mobile insiders builds still crawl out not frequent enough and the OS ist still having more bugs than Amazonas jungle. Now, another delay took place that a few "selected" 8.1 phones will receive the upgrade to W10M in "early 2016". And I am confident it won't be the last. Expensive flagship phones being shipped out to customers with a flaky beta-OS. The first update for these phones has been withdrawn already. The continuum display dock, unless you pick it up for free whithin the promo, has to be bought separately - a shame if you see the proce for 950 and 950XL which should have this device in the box already. Also don't forget to add the Office365 subscription from April next year if you wanna use the Office apps with continuum - which is most likely the only use for continuum.
    The mess with Onedrive storage limit just adds to the mess. So not surprising we not see any ads for W10M oder 950/950XL.
    I don't think W10M is dead but it is some experimental software showing what is technically possible. But not at all with the intention to become a daily driver for the majority of people on their phones.
    arwars and theefman like this.
    12-18-2015 06:36 AM
  17. arwars's Avatar
    Actually, the Office Apps were first released in a much more complete way on Windows Mobile, and were released with very few features, with many features missing or crippled, on Android and iOS. It has taken years of development to get Android and iOS where they are today. .
    Office apps were NOT released in a more complete way on WM. What release did you have? The initial release on 8x didn't support anything but simple manual entries in excel, basic support in One Note... not 'more complete' functions. Yes, It may have taken more time to get Office supported on iOS and droid.. and look where they are now, way ahead of WM. Spend the time on your own platform. Work out the details on your own platform. Make your own platform better than the competition. How much brainwashing does it take to not see these very simple and very real needs for WM?

    The Office Mobile apps, or touch apps for Office, have been re-written from scratch in order to fully optimize them with the new Windows 10 core.
    No, they were rewritten to support iOS and Droid ... with most but not all features supported or making their way back to WM.

    Yes, most apps can be ported over easily, but Microsoft made a mistake in the way the Office app was developed for WP8.1, so they ditched it.
    .
    You kinda contradict yourself.

    And we are only talking about Office here. Let's look at other half-baked apps like Facebook (how many people use this daily? why, since MS makes it for WM, can't they see the importance of providing a very rich user experience that supports all functions of the site? WHY? or should I say "Why not provide a rich, full featured user experience?"

    Cause the cook has the oven stuck on 'HALF-BAKE'.... leave it in the oven longer and stop giving it to us raw!
    Last edited by arwars; 12-18-2015 at 08:06 AM.
    12-18-2015 07:12 AM
  18. arwars's Avatar
    Anyway, I didn't come here to argue points and try to counter the brainwashing of 'coming soon'. I woke up to the fact that WM user voices are not being heard. I switched and now I have everything I want and need from the competing platform.

    I come here to see if there is progress, waiting for the time that WM matures (years) and for the day that app quality meets or exceeds the competitors(more years). With my love of WM8, I didn't think I would be able to handle the switch... but I am handling it just fine. I thought I would drastically miss the live tiles.. but there weren't really many left in WM10 that aren't broken and that doesn't make me miss them anyway (disconnection of the hubs), I thought I would miss cortana..but, wait, she is still on my phone :) True, I can't say "Hey cortana"... but she is still proficient in her abilities. I have ALL the features of Facebook available to me in a way I never had on WM and it's beautifully done, very capable and the realization of how far WM has to go.

    What do I not have? Miracast, "Hey Cortana", Broken Live Tiles, inconsistent design .... and that's about it. Oh.. I don't have a WM as a daily driver either. I have my 1520 on the nightstand collecting dust with the exception of and occasional use like: "Hey cortana, what's the weather" or to have her sing "Happy Birthday" to the beautiful woman lying next to me. :) Siri doesn't sing :P
    Last edited by arwars; 12-18-2015 at 08:08 AM.
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    12-18-2015 07:23 AM
  19. rhapdog's Avatar
    Office apps were NOT released in a more complete way on WM. What release did you have? The initial release on 8x didn't support anything but a simple functions...
    I said Windows Mobile, not Phone. I'm about Windows Mobile 5, or pocket PC 2003, NOT Windows Phone 8.1. Something I started using back in 2005, before Android existed, and had WAY more features than what came out on WP8.1.

    And, yes, the early Android version was way more crippled than what we have on Windows 10 Mobile or WP8.1.

    The Android and iOS versions in use now have been around and improved upon for many years. The mobile version for Windows 10 is relatively new.

    The biggest reason for the apps being behind in functionality are the repeated reboots of the OS, which meant starting over on the apps.

    The apps from Microsoft for Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile are being updated at a rate that is unprecedented. I get updates several times per week now. Usually once a week or more just on Office apps. I can guarantee that the Android and iOS versions aren't getting that much love.

    No, they don't have all the features we want yet, but seeing the updates happening, I finally have confidence that it will happen.
    gcyoung likes this.
    12-18-2015 08:10 AM
  20. arwars's Avatar
    I just threw out my Windows CE device a few weeks ago. Ahhh...memories.

    Well aware of the many reboots. Ce, Wm 6.5,7, 7.5, 8, 8.1, 10

    Don't bet your phone on the lack of love for iOS, I just downloaded the updates for ALL the Office apps again last night and it's not the first time in the 2 months that I've had an iPhone that I have done so. iOS is getting plenty of love from MSFT.

    I don't, they destroyed my confidence. I will wait for SEVERAL years to see if MSFT on mobile every becomes a feature packed mature OS. Because it took several years to make mature apps for iOS/Droid... right?

    I love driving on long roads...but I've learned to drive them with the Windows down. ;) (Me)
    12-18-2015 09:13 AM
  21. tgp's Avatar
    Don't bet your phone on the lack of love for iOS, I just downloaded the updates for ALL the Office apps again last night and it's not the first time in the 2 months that I've had an iPhone that I have done so. iOS is getting plenty of love from MSFT.
    Office apps on Android get updated regularly as well. I checked a few of them, and OneNote currently has gone the longest with its last update on December 7. Obvious neglect!

    Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Outlook have all been updated on December 10 or later.
    12-18-2015 09:58 AM
  22. rhapdog's Avatar
    Office apps on Android get updated regularly as well. I checked a few of them, and OneNote currently has gone the longest with its last update on December 7. Obvious neglect!

    Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Outlook have all been updated on December 10 or later.
    Nice to know Microsoft is doing their job as a software company, then. I never meant that Microsoft was trying to slight the other OSes, only that at long last Microsoft is finally giving some love to its own platform.

    I never got Office updates on WM5, I never got updates on WP 8 or 8.1. I'm getting quite regular and frequent updates for WM10. I'd say it is promising, as finally Microsoft is treating their own platform with some love.
    tgp and a5cent like this.
    12-18-2015 10:42 AM
  23. Lord Method Man's Avatar
    I think the person in question here either misspoke or was misunderstood. We would not just accept, nor settle for, 3rd place in Mobile for Windows. Weve released great new devices, a new converged OS, and a new Universal Windows Apps platform just this year. All of these are clear investments and show our commitment to a great Windows experience across a broad range of devices.
    Sorry, but actions speak louder than PR.
    12-18-2015 10:44 AM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    Sorry, but actions speak louder than PR.
    I guess that depends on how you interpret Microsoft's actions. Gabe Aul's words in this thread, while reassuring and nice to hear, are also typical of rhetoric you would hear from anyone in his position, no matter what the reality is. That's probably why some have questions.

    That said, I firmly believe that he firmly believes what he said. But at the same time, it's what anyone would say, whether or not it's valid.
    12-18-2015 11:49 AM
  25. BlueEchoes's Avatar
    I swear that everyone at MSFT uses iOS or Droid as their personal phones otherwise there may be some incentive to make WM10 a top-notch platform and WM10 apps the apps everyone talks about.
    I make you a bet you are right. I am working for a company that is a MSFT partner and every employee has an iPhone except for 1 android user, and 3 Windows Phone users. I just switched because I hated that we are trying to sell MSFT and sitting in front of me was an iPhone.

    I don't use a ton of apps, so I have been okay with the switch so far, but I am missing 2 key apps that I need to use that will never get to Windows phone. So I carry an old iPhone with just WiFi so I can do my job. My job as a MSFT partner.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-18-2015 02:07 PM
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