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12-29-2015 10:13 AM
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  1. TLRtheory's Avatar
    I do agree that Windows 10 shouldn't be called a beta beyond the technical preview... but at the same time I can't say I've seen any large (or small) movement of people referring to the version of Windows 10 on the Lumia 950/950XL as a beta.
    12-27-2015 08:54 AM
  2. wpn00b's Avatar
    I watched that review last night and thought "Wow, that hits the nail on its head". I hadn't even seen this thread until now. Crazy how accurate he was about everything... Except for those install errors... I've not ever seen one... Must.be 950 specific or something.

    Anyway, I was enjoying every bit of it. It praises.the platform where warranted and calls it out on it's BS when it is not worthy of praise. The title on the video is damning: "Lumia 950 XL: Nope." Not sure if the article is titled the same also, but if it is, that's all anyone needs to read to corroborate their previous notions regarding Windows Phone.

    Microsoft better have a an awesome update that they've been testing over the holiday break since the last build. Everything that review said, i know to be true except for the video recording and store issues he complained about but i believe thats because I'm running W10m on the 929.

    I send whatever feedback I can to Microsoft when I discover a problem. I'm sure lots of us here do. Sometimes it feels they are listening, sometimes it does not. They need to make it more readily apparent that they are listening. That should be their New Year resolution. My patience is wearing thin... And I'm the most patient person I know! Still in it for the foreseeable future, but man... How much longer?
    12-27-2015 08:57 AM
  3. TLRtheory's Avatar
    I can honestly say that NONE of those issues are happening on my 950. Sure, I had one app that caused a restart & lag but it was old nonessential lock screen app, uninstalled & back to normal.

    I don't know why I haven't had any of the issues we've all seen reported, but I haven't.
    No problems in my 950xl.
    We now have a 950 xl and have yet to see any if those issues.
    We have 3 x new 950xl's. Got to say I have no idea why people are complaining, we have certainly found our phones to work well coming off the 1020 and the 930 series of phone... Whilst win10 is not extraordinary it's only works well.. Happy with our purchases..
    I've had my 950 for a week now, having no issues others are complaining about. I even installed some of the apps the reviewer complained about in the video and they installed without an issue.
    Just for sh*ts and giggles, I Went down the list of problems they say followed them through three Lumias in the 950 series.

    None of the app update problems, crashes or issues with 4K recording (since I have a two month old son and want my videos of him to hold as technology progresses, I've actually left 4K as the default option and have been recording things he does almost daily since I got this phone), and even tried to install MS-DOS Mobile since that's one of very few times they stopped being vague to specifically cite something - and it installed fine. Prior to seeing this, I was about to make a thread regarding this to see if I was just lucky... but it seems like a minority (regardless of how vocal) are the ones experiencing these issues. I wouldn't say this review nails it at all... but rather it tries to magnify the exception into being the rule. This will get on the good side of the shills that religiously hang out here just to bash the WP platform, but this is a big no-no for reviewers that want to be ethical and fair.

    I will mention that I did at one point and time have some problem with stuck updates on my 950, but the very day I read this article Microsoft may have just fixed stuck app updates in the Windows 10 Mobile store | Windows Central I checked my phone and sure enough the stuck updates were taken care of.

    Even in app crashes... I have 412 apps on my Lumia 950 now (including every single Xbox enabled Gameloft game and pretty much all the other major games on WP too). The only one that downright crashes is Mass Effect Infiltrator. Every single time I open it up it crashes. I get inescapable black screen problems with Spectral Souls and Monster GO!, but even if we were to count those as crashes, that'd still mean 409/412 apps I currently have installed work just fine.

    I believe the silent majority aren't having these issues either.
    Silent majority is always an ignored but very important aspect. If there's anything universally true, it's that there are more unsatisfied people complaining than there are satisfied people praising. I can catch my Nexus 5 having two errors any day of the week... and my Nike+ app crashes every time I open it on my iPhone. And I just happen to have 5 stuck updates on my iPad right now that have persisted for about a month and persisted through the recent update to iOS9.2.

    win_20151227_09_53_23_pro.jpg

    ... if I wanted to center a review around those and briefly show a list of user complaints to get those "I'm not alone!" cookies, I could spin-doctor Android/iOS into looking badly as well... but I have more integrity than that. That's why the truly established reviewers like MKBHD may point out OS bugs (such as the always reliable way to make an iPhone crash) but they don't use such low, scummy spin doctor tactics to represent a phone or an OS as a whole.

    ...I've seen better than this out of Fisher. This is not some of his better work... actually seems like he took a page out of The Verge's book. If even a single person were to make a decision to avoid based off this review, it should be met with shame.
    Last edited by TLRtheory; 12-27-2015 at 10:14 AM.
    12-27-2015 09:26 AM
  4. missionsparta's Avatar
    Just for sh*ts and giggles, I Went down the list of problems they say followed them through three Lumias in the 950 series.

    None of the app update problems, crashes or issues with 4K recording (since I have a two month old son and want my videos of him to hold as technology progresses, I've actually left 4K as the default option and have been recording things he does almost daily since I got this phone), and even tried to install MS-DOS Mobile since that's one of very few times they stopped being vague to specifically cite something - and it installed fine. Prior to seeing this, I was about to make a thread regarding this to see if I was just lucky... but it seems like a minority (regardless of how vocal) are the ones experiencing these issues. I wouldn't say this review nails it at all... but rather it tries to magnify the exception into being the rule. This will get on the good side of the shills that religiously hang out here just to bash the WP platform, but this is a big no-no for reviewers that want to be ethical and fair.

    I will mention that I did at one point and time have some problem with stuck updates on my 950, but the very day I read this article Microsoft may have just fixed stuck app updates in the Windows 10 Mobile store | Windows Central I checked my phone and sure enough the stuck updates were taken care of.

    Even in app crashes... I have 412 apps on my Lumia 950 now (including every single Xbox enabled Gameloft game and pretty much all the other major games on WP too). The only one that downright crashes is Mass Effect Infiltrator. Every single time I open it up it crashes. I get inescapable black screen problems with Spectral Souls and Monster GO!, but even if we were to count those as crashes, that'd still mean 409/412 apps I currently have installed work just fine.



    Silent majority is always an ignored but very important aspect. If there's anything universally true, it's that there are more unsatisfied people complaining than there are satisfied people praising. I can catch my Nexus 5 having two errors any day of the week... and my Nike+ app crashes every time I open it on my iPhone. And I just happen to have 5 stuck updates on my iPad right now that have persisted for about a month and persisted through the recent update to iOS9.2.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ... if I wanted to center a review around those and briefly show a list of user complaints to get those "I'm not alone!" cookies, I could spin-doctor Android/iOS into looking badly as well... but I have more integrity than that. That's why the truly established reviewers like MKBHD may point out OS bugs (such as the always reliable way to make an iPhone crash) but they don't use such low, scummy spin doctor tactics to represent a phone or an OS as a whole.

    ...I've seen better than this out of Fisher. This is not some of his better work... actually seems like he took a page out of The Verge's book. If even a single person were to make a decision to avoid based off this review, it should be met with shame.
    More pretending that there is nothing wrong . The new Microsoft way. The scary thing is, that companies fine tune the hell out of a device before they send them to a guy like this for reviewing. The fact that this is what they sent him more than tells you the situation.
    theefman and Kram Sacul like this.
    12-27-2015 10:19 AM
  5. TLRtheory's Avatar
    More ppretendingthat there iis nothing wrong.
    Whoa, slow down buddy... that poor keyboard did nothing to you!

    Citing our own cases that we aren't experiencing these issues isn't an expression that nothing is wrong... and actually no one's even mentioned that "there is nothing wrong" until you. They've actually been surprisingly docile and sympathetic towards those having problems with their 950/950XL even though the other side of this discussion has been aggressive. When a reviewer says "I can't recommend this phone to anyone" based on a small spread of issues, people speaking out to say "Hey, sucks that you're having this issue... but we're not having the problem you're having. You may want to re-evaluate the range of your claim." is the reaction most rational, logical human beings will have.

    Again - because I am having problems with some iPhone app crashes and iPad update failures (and that I can find some others who are having the same problem), does that mean I should start spewing that I can't recommend iPhone/iPad to anyone? No; that's absolutely idiotic.

    Also, pretending nothing is wrong isn't even the "new" Microsoft way. Do you actually read articles here? They're always issuing reports regarding problems Microsoft has acknowledged that they are actively working on fixes for... did you miss the entire debacle on Surface Pro 4/Surface Book connected standby?
    Last edited by TLRtheory; 12-27-2015 at 10:49 AM.
    12-27-2015 10:26 AM
  6. addicusbrown's Avatar
    I bought two Lumia 640s from MS Store when they were $38 each and gave them to my kids for Christmas. I asked the kids if they were willing to try Windows 10 and they went nuts (12 yr old girl & 9 yrs old boy). Now please take note we are the only family that uses WP Mobile. Wife and I both have 1520's. Girl had a 520 then 535. All they do is use and compare phones and platforms with their friends all using Iphones and Androids. I say that because I want you all to understand they are the stark minority in a group where EVERYTHING is about their phones and if their phones weren't up to par we would hear it. I'm talking about their peers having Iphone 6'sand the newest LG and Samsung Androids along with Ipads, IPad Minis and IPods'.

    Ok. So we updated one phone to WP10 (the boy's with no data plan). It looked so damn good the girl insisted she was updated. Half of her contacts were gone and none of his apps would update. I created a family account for him and upped his age so his apps then updated. I then did a hard reset on both phones the next morning. This eliminated the battery drain. Then both phones found the newest update and I installed that for them and did a hard reset. She got back all her contacts. She is just wowing over all the great features and no complaints on the hardware or software. Both get better battery life than their friends devices and find the Android and iOS platforms stale. They both get email, Kik, Netflix, Hulu, Pandora can take selfies have a great regular camera can tap to share with NFC and tons of games to play. Favorite app is Mytube. Crushes on YouTube apps from any platform and believe me when I tell you, Youtube is the MTV of today's generation. These kids watch it for hours at a time in groups and have these videos going viral.

    So my point is, the damn ecosystem is fine. It can grow with more dev support, but tons of these devs simply hate MS. I have two cousins who work at Google Irvine. They are about 30 and they rail on MS all day and they are the norm. Should the 950 & 950XL come out with major issues - HELL NO. Still in the past few weeks these have been addressed with firmware updates. I'm surrounded by people with tons of issues on their Androids and iPhones with messaging, resets, etc.... but reviewers are ****ting on the platforms daily. I'm talking about phones unable to get the newest OS, apps unable to update without the newest OS on the hardware unable to update, messaging issues and hardware that simply cracks, shatters and breaks after a drop or two. I'm amazed at the fragility of these other products.

    If you ********, moaning, unhappy complainers who look for every flaw in these products are so disappointed, speak with your money. Buy what you like and what you feel is the best value for your money. That's all these major corporations listen too. If the Android and iOS platforms are that much better for you, than you should be purchasing them. Hell most people are on Verizon and can't get WP products anyway. The market share is less than 3% after all these years. For those of us who love what we have, we are lucky this MULTI-BILLION $ INTERNATIONAL company even is interested in our views and has outright came out and said it will be focusing on the low end markets,high end market and enthusiasts. At this point, we aren't here for the mobile takeover anymore so re-evaluate and asses how the approach is for our community. Let's build it from a realistic view.
    12-27-2015 10:50 AM
  7. Tim Stone's Avatar
    I like your post. You point out what I have shared for a long time: If all the apps you need are on the Windows Phone, it's a great OS.

    I have two phones. I have my business line ( after 33 years ) now on an iPhone 6+. Yes, it does have it's issues but then what device doesn't ? I had to do that because there are business apps ( banking, real estate apps necessary to do business, building security apps, etc ) that I do need, and they are not currently available on the Windows Phone. I do like the fact I can also answer calls on my iPad at my desk. My secondary phone is a Lumia Icon. I've gone through all of the stages so far with Win 10 Mobile, and keep it current. The camera is now working better. Battery life is not as good as the 6+, but I do have charging sticks so I can handle that. The main issue is apps. The ones I really need are not available on WinPhone so it cannot be my primary.

    Perhaps the main difference for me is I've been in this journey ( personal computing / cell phones, etc ) for over 33 years professionally. I'm a software developer ( large scale business management systems, not appropriate for tablets or phones ). Having seen so much progress, I know the future brings a lot of promise. I fully expect apps to return to Win Phone as Win 10 universal apps increase, and I know it's just a matter of time untl full text messaging and phone calls appear on Windows desktops. I have no problem being patient, even at my nearly 7 decades of age.

    The key to obtaining any device is to see what meets one's actual needs, not it's gimmicks !
    CanuckTom likes this.
    12-27-2015 12:06 PM
  8. salazka's Avatar
    Wait til next year!
    Next year, at this rate, Windows will have 0.45% market share :P
    Windows 10 Mobile is a horrible unoptimized mess and a horrible idea to get it out for sale with new phones. If the happy lifestyle guy really got fired he deserves it!

    The right way to go forward is not by moving backwards.
    Last edited by salazka; 12-27-2015 at 01:03 PM.
    12-27-2015 12:16 PM
  9. scottinmd's Avatar
    I have to agree. And I love Windows phone. I have a 640 XL running windows 10. I don't care if it's a midrange phone. It's not just the performance. To save time, it would be easier to say ditto. He really did nail it.
    12-27-2015 01:32 PM
  10. John Christopoulos's Avatar
    Just my point! Kudos!
    12-27-2015 03:39 PM
  11. asteng88's Avatar
    Because iOS is in its 9th iteration while Win10 Mobile is brand new. You have to be committed to seeing this grow to be in at this early stage. Yes its buggy. Yes it can drive you crazy, but let me assure you that iOS was exactly the same on the very first iPhone release. I have had every release of the phone and OS and I am tired of the apple ecosystem. I will never switch to android as long as there is blood flowing through my veins so I wanted to give Microsoft another try. I don't understand people who judge others for their phone choice. Go with what you like and try and be a contributor rather than pointing the finger (rhyming not intentional).
    12-27-2015 04:59 PM
  12. dnbrealm's Avatar
    Probably the best Lumia 950 review I've come across. Definitely Microsoft should take the points on the review more seriously.
    12-27-2015 05:11 PM
  13. someone2639's Avatar
    Wait til next year!
    Rip sales
    12-27-2015 05:16 PM
  14. Jonnie LasVegas's Avatar
    Because iOS is in its 9th iteration while Win10 Mobile is brand new. You have to be committed to seeing this grow to be in at this early stage. Yes its buggy. Yes it can drive you crazy, but let me assure you that iOS was exactly the same on the very first iPhone release. I have had every release of the phone and OS and I am tired of the apple ecosystem. I will never switch to android as long as there is blood flowing through my veins so I wanted to give Microsoft another try. I don't understand people who judge others for their phone choice. Go with what you like and try and be a contributor rather than pointing the finger (rhyming not intentional).
    I read these same things after EVERY WP reboot. Almost word for word from different people. It was said when WP7 launched, then 8, then 8.1, and now again with W10M. Too many apologists for a company who clearly does not deserve them. They'll NEVER catch up in the app gap or sales. Just deal with it and accept your Windows phone for what it is everybody. At least until the next reboot.
    12-27-2015 05:40 PM
  15. th34monk3ys's Avatar
    I bought two Lumia 640s from MS Store when they were $38 each and gave them to my kids for Christmas. I asked the kids if they were willing to try Windows 10 and they went nuts (12 yr old girl & 9 yrs old boy). Now please take note we are the only family that uses WP Mobile. Wife and I both have 1520's. Girl had a 520 then 535. All they do is use and compare phones and platforms with their friends all using Iphones and Androids. I say that because I want you all to understand they are the stark minority in a group where EVERYTHING is about their phones and if their phones weren't up to par we would hear it. I'm talking about their peers having Iphone 6'sand the newest LG and Samsung Androids along with Ipads, IPad Minis and IPods'.

    Ok. So we updated one phone to WP10 (the boy's with no data plan). It looked so damn good the girl insisted she was updated. Half of her contacts were gone and none of his apps would update. I created a family account for him and upped his age so his apps then updated. I then did a hard reset on both phones the next morning. This eliminated the battery drain. Then both phones found the newest update and I installed that for them and did a hard reset. She got back all her contacts. She is just wowing over all the great features and no complaints on the hardware or software. Both get better battery life than their friends devices and find the Android and iOS platforms stale. They both get email, Kik, Netflix, Hulu, Pandora can take selfies have a great regular camera can tap to share with NFC and tons of games to play. Favorite app is Mytube. Crushes on YouTube apps from any platform and believe me when I tell you, Youtube is the MTV of today's generation. These kids watch it for hours at a time in groups and have these videos going viral.

    So my point is, the damn ecosystem is fine. It can grow with more dev support, but tons of these devs simply hate MS. I have two cousins who work at Google Irvine. They are about 30 and they rail on MS all day and they are the norm. Should the 950 & 950XL come out with major issues - HELL NO. Still in the past few weeks these have been addressed with firmware updates. I'm surrounded by people with tons of issues on their Androids and iPhones with messaging, resets, etc.... but reviewers are ****ting on the platforms daily. I'm talking about phones unable to get the newest OS, apps unable to update without the newest OS on the hardware unable to update, messaging issues and hardware that simply cracks, shatters and breaks after a drop or two. I'm amazed at the fragility of these other products.

    If you ********, moaning, unhappy complainers who look for every flaw in these products are so disappointed, speak with your money. Buy what you like and what you feel is the best value for your money. That's all these major corporations listen too. If the Android and iOS platforms are that much better for you, than you should be purchasing them. Hell most people are on Verizon and can't get WP products anyway. The market share is less than 3% after all these years. For those of us who love what we have, we are lucky this MULTI-BILLION $ INTERNATIONAL company even is interested in our views and has outright came out and said it will be focusing on the low end markets,high end market and enthusiasts. At this point, we aren't here for the mobile takeover anymore so re-evaluate and asses how the approach is for our community. Let's build it from a realistic view.
    Here here! Nice to here about your kids point of view the newer gen on 10!
    CanuckTom likes this.
    12-27-2015 06:12 PM
  16. Prince Pusey's Avatar
    Because iOS is in its 9th iteration while Win10 Mobile is brand new. You have to be committed to seeing this grow to be in at this early stage. Yes its buggy. Yes it can drive you crazy, but let me assure you that iOS was exactly the same on the very first iPhone release. I have had every release of the phone and OS and I am tired of the apple ecosystem. I will never switch to android as long as there is blood flowing through my veins so I wanted to give Microsoft another try. I don't understand people who judge others for their phone choice. Go with what you like and try and be a contributor rather than pointing the finger (rhyming not intentional).
    I've been with win since win7, and trust me, new or not, Microsoft have so much potential yet......sigh
    12-27-2015 09:13 PM
  17. Prince Pusey's Avatar
    Probably the best Lumia 950 review I've come across. Definitely Microsoft should take the points on the review more seriously.
    Probably? it I the best to me so far
    12-27-2015 09:14 PM
  18. Arsynic's Avatar
    Spot on. That's why I picked up a Galaxy S6 Edge+. I'll wait for the Panos Phone. I get the feeling that Nokia has this phone in the pipeline and MS released it to recoup some money. You can be sure that W10 will be complete on the Panos Phone.
    12-27-2015 09:18 PM
  19. Prince Pusey's Avatar
    I read these same things after EVERY WP reboot. Almost word for word from different people. It was said when WP7 launched, then 8, then 8.1, and now again with W10M. Too many apologists for a company who clearly does not deserve them. They'll NEVER catch up in the app gap or sales. Just deal with it and accept your Windows phone for what it is everybody. At least until the next reboot.
    Trust me, windows is for its productivity, but what annoys me the most, is their apps really works perfectly on other OS. Why is it so hard for it to work the same on its home ground?????? smh... they need to do better for real... I have been with them since win7, and trust me, I need another phone as well to be current in this world. Using their phone alone would make you very outdated
    12-27-2015 09:18 PM
  20. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    No problems in my 950xl.
    I swear most of the so-called 'tech authors' go out of their way to find problems with Microsoft stuff lol
    The Pocketnow review demonstrates the bugs on video.
    Last edited by Johnny Tremaine; 12-27-2015 at 11:45 PM.
    12-27-2015 11:28 PM
  21. cracgor's Avatar
    I do agree that Windows 10 shouldn't be called a beta beyond the technical preview... but at the same time I can't say I've seen any large (or small) movement of people referring to the version of Windows 10 on the Lumia 950/950XL as a beta.
    Even reading this post and the replies you will see several wm10 apologists refer to the OS as beta and that consumers should know what they are getting into. When I bought the 950xl, I did so without previewing wm10 because everything indicated it was not ready. I assumed wrongly that the information on Microsoft's website and the price of the phone meant that it would work. I was wrong in this case. The main point that the software holds the phone back is true. Previously, the app gap was the main problem. WM10 brings the OS problems to the forefront. Random restarts, crashing, etc makes using the phone as a phone, camera, or email service less reliable so you can forget the app gap. It will get better hopefully, but you may have to wait several months for the improvement. That is what drives me crazy. Also, the OS has always had updates to fix problems, I don't think we are really entering a new paradigm where this is the last windows number and everything is incremental. There will be a windows 11, even if only by another name. Assuming change will happen, windows cannot possibly meet all future demand anymore than windows 7 could function on tablet or smart phone.
    wpn00b and Kram Sacul like this.
    12-27-2015 11:48 PM
  22. alejandro plata's Avatar
    When is the w10m official release date?
    12-27-2015 11:55 PM
  23. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    When is the w10m official release date?
    It already is official for the 950/950XL. We don't know yet when it will be officially released for older devices. Please see this thread for further information.
    wpn00b and alejandro plata like this.
    12-27-2015 11:59 PM
  24. cracgor's Avatar
    Because iOS is in its 9th iteration while Win10 Mobile is brand new. You have to be committed to seeing this grow to be in at this early stage. Yes its buggy. Yes it can drive you crazy, but let me assure you that iOS was exactly the same on the very first iPhone release. I have had every release of the phone and OS and I am tired of the apple ecosystem. I will never switch to android as long as there is blood flowing through my veins so I wanted to give Microsoft another try. I don't understand people who judge others for their phone choice. Go with what you like and try and be a contributor rather than pointing the finger (rhyming not intentional).
    I'm sick of people saying windows is new. It was new when I got wp7 and my biggest gripe was no copy. It was new when it went to wp8 and I really had no complaints. Why does wm10 get a pass? iOS may be on its 9th iteration, but if you want to count it like that so is Windows Mobile.
    pericle and Kram Sacul like this.
    12-28-2015 12:00 AM
  25. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    ...I've seen better than this out of Fisher. This is not some of his better work... actually seems like he took a page out of The Verge's book. If even a single person were to make a decision to avoid based off this review, it should be met with shame.
    Oh please. Because he couldn't recommend your precious and sacred 950XL he's not doing a good job? He went through two review units and both sucked. His own experience which is what his review is about. What do you expect him to say? Instead of blaming Fisher you should be blaming MS for delivering a half-assed and embarrassing product.
    12-28-2015 03:14 AM
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