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02-06-2016 06:37 PM
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  1. ajayden's Avatar
    Lord have mercy...
    If win10 run flawless with zero issues on the current 950's with cutting edge hardware I'd say you are justified with your opinion but it does not. It means Microsoft released win10 mobile far to early with bugs and lack of polish on ALL hardware no matter the phone..

    And contrary to ios9 slowing down it's older hardware my icon feels like a fresh phone and is pretty snappy.

    We are now beating a dog to death with a straw broom and I am glad Microsoft does not see things your way..

    Feel free to buy a 950. I do not have that option as it will not work on Verizon, however I am enjoying win10 on my icon immensely though in your opinion it should not qualify for the upgrade.

    Have a nice day.
    Neither do I have an option to buy 950/950XL as it is not available in my country yet.

    So from your post, it is quite evident that everyone is reacting due to their impatience in waiting, until the OS is bug free.

    Good to hear that your Icon is snappy.

    Have a nice day too.
    01-20-2016 10:51 PM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    OP, you are relating observations to each other in arbitrary ways which are completely unrelated. Most complaints are actually coming from L950 owners, more so than from owners of older models. If you want to update only those devices that aren't having issues, it would in fact be more logical to update only the older devices, as the newest ones appear to be having far more issues.

    Most of the complaints on older devices are related to patience, or a lack thereof. That has nothing to do with the technical matters of hardware or software.

    Lastly, MS' mobile team desperately needs to start doing more things better than the competition. W10M now allegedly supports an architecture where MS should be able to update almost anything OS related without requiring carrier approval. Now that MS is gaining the ability to deliver iOS level support, it would be the absolute worst time to stoop to android-like levels of non-support.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-23-2016 at 05:23 AM. Reason: formatting+slight clarification
    01-21-2016 02:05 AM
  3. ajayden's Avatar
    OP, you are relating observations to each other in arbitrary ways which are completely unrelated. Most complaints are actually coming from L950 owners, more so than from any other device model. It would in fact be more logical to conclude the opposite, namely that MS should only update old devices, as the newest ones appear to be the ones with the most problems.
    Most of the complaints on older devices are related to patience, or a lack thereof. That has nothing to do with the technical matters of hardware or software.
    Lastly, MS' mobile team desperately needs to start doing more things better than the competition. W10M now allegedly supports an architecture where MS should be able to update almost anything OS related without requiring carrier approval. Now that MS is gaining the ability to deliver iOS level support, it would be the absolut worst time to stoop to android levels of non-support. 
    @a5cent : I like your comment, particularly, the last line.
    Yes, 950/950XL owners are complaining about device quality and due that the OS not running well or having issues. However, older device owners have complained about every build not working well on their devices. I have tried to help some of them.
    01-21-2016 02:15 AM
  4. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    My thoughts

    One of the best features of windows phones has been the ability to receive updates for the phone os. Admittedly the updates roll out pretty slow for most regions and it's only OTA. But the updates helped a lot. When word flow came out with 8.1, that was one of the best features. You couldn't have some models not having it and some having it. It wouldn't be consistent.

    Over the past 5 months or so since I've been on insider program for phones, since build 10512, I've noticed a general and positive trend.

    The number of issues has reduced with each update most of the time
    The number of bugs are reducing
    Features have increased
    Battery life is getting better


    Initially insiders were demanding new builds every week. Not a day would go by when someone wouldn't ask when the next update it since they had so many issues with that build.

    Now? I barely see anyone asking for a new build (except for me but I'm patient). There are a lot more posts on whether this build is stable or not.

    For majority of windows insider testers, I believe it is stable and the situation has improved considerably since the early days of 100xx builds.

    This W10M has been tested a lot on the current lumias like 520, 640, 730, 920, 1020 and others.

    If we can run W10M on our phones and the running is getting better with each build, then surely our phones will be quite ready for the official update. Some phones are being left behind like those with 4GB internal memory but the vast majority can upgrade and should upgrade

    To not upgrade would be an injustice as they would miss out on all the improvements and features that have been incorporated into W10M like better mail app, office apps, action center, video app, music app, screen scaling etc
    a5cent, libra89, Bobcat665 and 2 others like this.
    01-21-2016 02:32 AM
  5. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Continuation:

    I complained a lot when I was on 8.1 when there was no cellular setting in action center. Now it's there in W10M
    I wanted office apps I could use with more functionality - I've got that in W10M
    Better screen scaling - here
    Better action center - here
    better settings layout - much better now
    better mail app - I no longer use the browser to access emails as I used to in 8.1
    Regular app updates - quite frequent now with features added quickly
    editguy likes this.
    01-21-2016 02:37 AM
  6. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Majority of users where I am aren't aware of the new W10M nor the bugs. But when the update starts rolling out to users here after March, most won't hesitate to upgrade since by that time the OS would be 99% bug free and firmware updates should be arriving as well
    editguy likes this.
    01-21-2016 02:39 AM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    @a5cent : I like your comment, particularly, the last line.
    Yes, 950/950XL owners are complaining about device quality and due that the OS not running well or having issues. However, older device owners have complained about every build not working well on their devices. I have tried to help some of them.
    Yes, people have done that.... in the past (although many of those issues were expected or could have been avoided with a hard reset). Today? Not so much. I feel the enthusiasm for W10M is rather low (some like it, some don't), but almost all of the purely W10M related technical issues are gone... except on L950 devices (although that seems to be getting better too).

    Anyway, considering what W10M actually does, there is absolutely no reason it shouldn't run perfectly well on x20 series devices. Why? Because there is nothing in W10M over WP8.0 that would inherently require better hardware (except continuum which is only available on the L950/XL).

    Hardware is just less abstract and easier to grasp than software. That's why blaming the hardware is the typical go-to move. However, asking whether W10M's software is good enough to run on any hardware is the far better question. If you think not, then the best solution would be to improve the software, as more efficient software benefits everyone, including those with high end devices who'll get even better performance and battery life. That 's the far better solution than just throwing all the hardware W10M is (hypothetically) too fat to run on under the bus. Because, again, there is absolutely nothing in W10M (except continuum) that inherently requires powerful hardware.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-23-2016 at 05:19 AM. Reason: formatting only
    01-21-2016 02:53 AM
  8. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    Thanks for picking up the ball a5cent I'm busy at work lol....
    a5cent and ajayden like this.
    01-21-2016 03:05 AM
  9. arjan wolthuis's Avatar
    I heard a while ago that smartphone makers need to supply there phones at least 2 years after launch of that phone with updates. In ms case this is W10 M. So models like the 520 are older than those 2 years. Now I don't say this device shouldn't get an upgrade. But a model like the 640 that was released May last year, falls in those 2 years. So ms needs to offer an upgrade tho that device
    01-21-2016 03:35 AM
  10. ajayden's Avatar
    Dear Friends

    If you may agree, please sticky this post, cos I managed to get people to talk good about Microsoft in this post. All your posts were very positive. I think this is the only thread that is positive even on the second page.

    Thanks to all of you.

    I do agree that Microsoft must update all phones. Now atleast everyone complaining can read this post and know, how Microsoft is working for a noble cause.

    @Charles Brown8: Thanks and I was working too but wanted this thread to have as much positive posts as possible.
    Charles Brown8 likes this.
    01-21-2016 03:37 AM
  11. Akhil_007's Avatar
    windows 10 is a service now that will be given to all devices having wp8 or later. MS itself clarified that.
    and by looking at the scenario ,the market share MS dont have any other choice.
    they need to keep their customers happy so they cant forget the old phones(mine lumia 720)
    01-21-2016 07:37 AM
  12. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    Dear Friends

    If you may agree, please sticky this post, cos I managed to get people to talk good about Microsoft in this post. All your posts were very positive. I think this is the only thread that is positive even on the second page.

    Thanks to all of you.

    I do agree that Microsoft must update all phones. Now atleast everyone complaining can read this post and know, how Microsoft is working for a noble cause.

    @Charles Brown8: Thanks and I was working too but wanted this thread to have as much positive posts as possible.
    Lol... Slick.... Had me scratching my head on this end... Have a good day :)
    01-21-2016 08:29 AM
  13. Daniel Gilbert M's Avatar
    So doesn't that mean that there is an issue on running the OS on older devices and that means the devices must not upgraded?
    Unfinished OS ! Why do you have to jump the gun on here ? Why do people build up so much even before stuff has even happened ??
    Don't you see ?? if there is an issue, then its not optimized for that device yet ! W10M is an ongoing process and you are making a statement even before the public update is release ??

    Take for example an alpha/beta build of a game like early access. You buy it and play it. Too many bugs and you ditch it. Months later, a huge update comes. With that update, the game is optimized for all sorts of hardware. The game works fine.

    Even W10M on 550/950/950XL is "unfinished" . I know there is never going to be a finished version of W10M as windows is changing to WaaS.
    But look what happened in PC. First the insider builds came, then after many builds, a final build 10240 (stable enough) was released as a public update (7-10 / 8.1-10).
    From what I believe, there is going to be a similar kinda stuff going to happen for windows phones as well.

    MSFT has to do all phones at once, thats going to be a big load of work. From my understanding, their work started on phones which were released at the time when W10M was announced.
    While in android, google needs to look after the nexus devices and only needs to release a base ROM or something like that upon which different OEMS can tailor their UI, device drivers etc etc. (I'm not sure if I'm correct about this, but this is the whats on my mind regarding updates).

    Bottom line is, if the insider version works on your phone (regardless of old/new and keeping aside the bugs) , then the public release version WILL WORK JUST FINE !
    Because by then it would have undergone so many changes.


    Forgive my bad grammar and improper sentence construction. English is not my first language.
    But you get what I mean right ??
    01-21-2016 09:51 AM
  14. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Ms is building Windows 10 to be able to run on any device, so those that can run it, they will put it on there. Why not? Do you honestly think people will just go buy a windows 10 phone after they have been abandoned? It's more likely they will like windows 10 on their current old device and may actually update to a better device and use windows 10 if they like it. How many apps will come out if no one is running windows 10 except brand new devices? There is already a market share that they want to convert to the latest windows. This will allow them to maintain it and build on it. The apps will come if there's more users on windows 10. 8.1 will be gone, the store will be maintained likely for the few users that can't upgrade but they won't get any new apps. And that's sad for them but sometimes you can't let current tech get in the way of the future.
    01-21-2016 10:09 AM
  15. smf98aggie's Avatar
    I also have an 830 (AT&T) running W10, and it's pretty fast with little to no issues so far.

    ... My 830 running W10M thinks otherwise.
    editguy likes this.
    01-21-2016 10:22 AM
  16. cmucodemonkey's Avatar
    I think Microsoft does have to get some older handsets running Windows 10 Mobile. I see a couple major differences between Apple and Microsoft in this regard:
    1. Apple is more established, so they can more easily refuse to upgrade older devices, knowing that people will buy the new iPhone. Microsoft doesn't have that kind of pull in the mobile space yet.
    2. In the US, Apple iPhones are offered on multiple cellular carriers (might be the same in other countries, but I don't know). If you want a new Windows phone handset in the US you have to be on AT&T at the moment, so not upgrading older devices really just pushes precious customers away.
    3. Windows 10 Mobile is an essential piece of the universal app experience for Microsoft. What good would it be to introduce apps that run across your tablet, computer and phone if the phone never received Windows 10 Mobile? I can see eliminating hardware that wouldn't run the new OS properly, but if an older handset has the hardware to handle Windows 10 Mobile it benefits Microsoft to upgrade that device.
    01-21-2016 10:28 AM
  17. LondonLumia's Avatar
    Getting Windows 10 on another major form factor (mobile devices) is key to the whole Windows 10 concept. With only a small userbase to upgrade, it'd be pointless if Microsoft didn't try to make use of what 'little' they do have. Plus, this is the last time they have to go through the tricky business of getting carriers to agree to such a massive update - once this is over, MS will take back most of the control when it comes to updates. It's worth a final push to get a larger userbase for W10M.
    01-21-2016 10:33 AM
  18. Joao Bento's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile is running fine so far in my Lumia 630. I am in the slow ring and so far I had one random restart yesterday from all the installations I have done.

    Why wait for W10M in older phones? Well because Microsoft said it was coming. No good source on the dates but i remember that with Denim update they had information per country saying when it was released. So I have not seen that yet with W10M.

    As far as Microsoft caring about W10M well..... in W8.1 I did not see so many updates as now with native applications and others. I think I am updating apps on a weekly basis and that is pretty darn good :).

    Cheers
    01-21-2016 10:52 AM
  19. Jakoh's Avatar
    Well Win 10 running on the most # of devices is a strategy M$ has communicated. So i am assuming, it is M$ that want win 10 on old Lumias more than anyone else to lure developers to "100s of millions of devices."
    01-21-2016 11:42 AM
  20. Ian_Superfly's Avatar
    You do not need the latest Android or iOS to run the latest Microsoft Office apps...
    Nuf said.
    theefman and slivy58 like this.
    01-21-2016 12:35 PM
  21. Daniel Frankovitch's Avatar
    Microsoft doesn't have to do anything, but then they can't complain that they lose even more people as people give up on WP and go to iOS and Android.

    The singular reason I am waiting for WP10 on my Lumia 928 is because, as a Verizon customer, I have no WP upgrade path that doesn't require me to switch carriers. Having been with the other carriers, switching back to them is beyond stupid.

    No platform is worth a carrier downgrade. If Verizon and MS never find a way to act like they want my business, then I will be forced to go to iOS or Android once my phone dies. I was ready to buy a 950, I still have the money, but MS and Verizon don't want to sell me the device I want.
    01-21-2016 02:27 PM
  22. Greg Wenzler's Avatar
    Your English is a lot better than you think :)
    01-21-2016 02:41 PM
  23. cmattau90's Avatar
    Microsoft doesn't have to do anything, but then they can't complain that they lose even more people as people give up on WP and go to iOS and Android.

    The singular reason I am waiting for WP10 on my Lumia 928 is because, as a Verizon customer, I have no WP upgrade path that doesn't require me to switch carriers. Having been with the other carriers, switching back to them is beyond stupid.

    No platform is worth a carrier downgrade. If Verizon and MS never find a way to act like they want my business, then I will be forced to go to iOS or Android once my phone dies. I was ready to buy a 950, I still have the money, but MS and Verizon don't want to sell me the device I want.
    I'm also on Verizon and was ready to buy a 950. I decided to put Windows 10 on my 928 by joining Windows Insider. Glad I did it; the only challenges I've seen are that mobile hotspot doesn't work for me and battery life when using the phone seems to be shorter than before, but it is a 2 1/2 year old phone.
    Daniel Frankovitch likes this.
    01-21-2016 03:36 PM
  24. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    I came back onboard w/WM in late 2012, looking at my Ativ S, L1020 and L830, I'm hard pressed to see the advancements that should have been with the OS, now all three of my devices are basically EOL and running a stark, lackluster OS (W8.1) compared to the other platforms.
    That stark lackluster OS attracted me to the platform and I continue to enjoy it. At this point I wouldn't recommend W10M to my dog so being left out of that "upgrade" path is fine with me.
    01-21-2016 05:50 PM
  25. Vibhor Agarwal's Avatar
    The point is MS is not in a position to ditch its customers by not offering a Windows 10 Mobile update. Android or Iphone customers are going to buy Android/iphone no matter how many time they are left with a non-updated phone. With a very little market share MS cannot afford to do this.

    So plain and simple, MS should deliver and customer should expect Windows10 Mobile on their old devices.
    01-21-2016 11:21 PM
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