Why wait for WM10 on older phones?

[neo158]

My feelings on this are that most people fail to do a factory reset which is the best thing you can do straight after upgrading, granted this doesn't fix things in all cases. Also remember that almost all of the devices to be upgraded were released with WP8 and will, in all likelihood, require new firmware with Windows 10 Mobile which should iron out most if not all of the quirks and issues. Considering the Lumia 520 is still the most popular Windows Phone I think that's highly likely.

As a sidenote, my Lumia 930 is running W10M perfectly after a factory reset and routinely outperforms WP8.1 at the same tasks. Are there issues, yes there are but they will be ironed out with software and firmware updates.

 

[mariusmuntean]

My feelings on this are that most people fail to do a factory reset which is the best thing you can do straight after upgrading, granted this doesn't fix things in all cases. Also remember that almost all of the devices to be upgraded were released with WP8 and will, in all likelihood, require new firmware with Windows 10 Mobile which should iron out most if not all of the quirks and issues. Considering the Lumia 520 is still the most popular Windows Phone I think that's highly likely.

As a sidenote, my Lumia 930 is running W10M perfectly after a factory reset and routinely outperforms WP8.1 at the same tasks. Are there issues, yes there are but they will be ironed out with software and firmware updates.

you really think MS will bring firmware updates for the wp8/8.1 generation models? pm me after a few months win10 will be released and you will still have the same firmware and still an OS full of bugs.

 

[neo158]

you really think MS will bring firmware updates for the wp8/8.1 generation models? pm me after a few months win10 will be released and you will still have the same firmware and still an OS full of bugs.

Yes I do, considering Microsoft have stated that Lumia's running WP8.1 with 8GB of storage or more WILL get W10M and still have issues that are related more to firmware that software. Microsoft have also stated their intention to give Insiders early access to new firmware so, again, yes I do "think MS will bring firmware updates for WP8.1 generation models.

Also remember that the only Lumia's that ship with W10M are the 950, 950XL and the 550 therefore ALL prior devices are WP8.1 based.

 

[mariusmuntean]

Yes I do, considering Microsoft have stated that Lumia's running WP8.1 with 8GB of storage or more WILL get W10M and still have issues that are related more to firmware that software. Microsoft have also stated their intention to give Insiders early access to new firmware so, again, yes I do "think MS will bring firmware updates for WP8.1 generation models.

Also remember that the only Lumia's that ship with W10M are the 950, 950XL and the 550 therefore ALL prior devices are WP8.1 based.

We shall see...I don't have to remind you that the last firmware was Denim which brought nothing new to other than a few models, rest of them got nothing, and this was a long time ago.

 

[neo158]

We shall see...I don't have to remind you that the last firmware was Denim which brought nothing new to other than a few models, rest of them got nothing, and this was a long time ago.

There won't be a Lumia Emerald or whatever the E would stand for, as of W10M there is no Denim either, just Lumia Windows 10.

 

[fatclue_98]

Actually, after Windows 10 there will be no 11. Just rolling updates.
Sent from my Lumia 2520 on Tapatalk

 

[Keith White Jr]

Actually, after Windows 10 there will be no 11. Just rolling updates.
Sent from my Lumia 2520 on Tapatalk

That's what they say now but in all honestly I don't believe that for a second lol.

 

[mariusmuntean]

That's what they say now but in all honestly I don't believe that for a second lol.

who actually believes them? after all the mediocre stuff they've done so far?

 

[a5cent]

That's what they say now but in all honestly I don't believe that for a second lol.

You have to remember that the version number is just part of the name. It's branding more than anything else.
At some point, MS will likely ask W10 owners to pay to receive updates beyond a certain mark. That doesn't mean they can't keep calling it W10. They could easily just add a suffix to differentiate the two (as in W10 Redstone).

 

[ajayden]

You have to remember that the version number is just part of the name. It's branding more than anything else.
At some point, MS will likely ask W10 owners to pay to receive updates beyond a certain mark. That doesn't mean they can't keep calling it W10. They could easily just add a suffix to differentiate the two (as in W10 Redstone).

I feel they will unify how Windows is named and keep it simple in the future.They will remove the numbers from Windows (No more Windows10, just Windows). Windows (for Desktop, Tablet, Hololens, Xbox, IOT etc) and Windows Mobile (for phone).

 

[mariusmuntean]

I feel they will unify how Windows is named and keep it simple in the future.They will remove the numbers from Windows (No more Windows10, just Windows). Windows (for Desktop, Tablet, Hololens, Xbox, IOT etc) and Windows Mobile (for phone).

By the time they do this, windows mobile will be a shameful memory

 

[Christopher Kendalls]

Microsoft is being nice but the truth of the matter is that older phones with hardware that cannot handle how Windows 10 should run, ideally, are going to end up with a deprecated Windows 10 experience. This is if these phones get Windows 10 at all. Windows Hello and Continuum are two features we already know are not going to make it to all of the phones that have Windows Phone 8.1.

Microsoft did not want a repeat of what happened when Windows Phone 8 came out, so now we have this. The truth of the matter is that older phones cannot handle newer software if the new OS is that radical of a departure from the old way of doing things. The hardware literally, cannot provide a smooth experience. If you had an Apple device then you already know that the transition from 5 to 7 on an iPhone 4S was not smooth; so why would anyone want to upgrade a 4S to 9. It is truly, at their own risk.

Android has a better approach by fragmenting the newer features from the OS by offering them as apps. You have Google Play Services, you have the apps, and you have the hardware. With iOS and Microsoft, the equivalent of "Google Play Services" is integrated into the OS, it is not separate. You do not have a choice, either to upgrade it to the latest version, or just leave it as is. IOS takes it even further by baking their latest and greatest directly into the OS. Not everything is a stand alone app.

Bottom line is that older phones should NOT get Windows 10. If they can, and Windows 10 works well, then that means that either the hardware was already up and above what was required for Windows Phone 8.1 to work well in the first place. And we already know this to be true, because WP 8.1 is so efficient, on 512 MB devices. So this suggests that Microsoft was offering an operating system, a minimal operating system, that only needed a fraction of the hardware on the device to work. And that is exactly what Apple does, and that is why you can use iOS 9 on an old iPhone 4S.

With Android, we often complain about the OEMs but the bottom line is that without interference by the OEMs, the worst Android phones would automatically get that update and you would have Marshmallow running on phones that are only good enough to run KitKat. Granted, you can already do that on Android if you root your phone, but without that block in place the floodgates would open.

Sometimes it is just better to purchase a new device in order to get the latest software. The 550 is a cheap Windows 10 device that was actually designed to run the OS. Microsoft brought this on themselves through the Insider Program, IMHO. That program may have given the illusion, that because the preview worked well on the phone, that the actual release will run well on the phone. Just get a 550 for $140 and make your life a lot easier, than waste time dealing with an OS that you can never experience fully on an old device anyway. Time is money. By the time you work out the kinks, you could have earned the difference in what you've saved by not purchasing new hardware.

 

[cmucodemonkey]

Microsoft is being nice but the truth of the matter is that older phones with hardware that cannot handle how Windows 10 should run, ideally, are going to end up with a deprecated Windows 10 experience. This is if these phones get Windows 10 at all. Windows Hello and Continuum are two features we already know are not going to make it to all of the phones that have Windows Phone 8.1.

Microsoft did not want a repeat of what happened when Windows Phone 8 came out, so now we have this. The truth of the matter is that older phones cannot handle newer software if the new OS is that radical of a departure from the old way of doing things. The hardware literally, cannot provide a smooth experience. If you had an Apple device then you already know that the transition from 5 to 7 on an iPhone 4S was not smooth; so why would anyone want to upgrade a 4S to 9. It is truly, at their own risk.

Android has a better approach by fragmenting the newer features from the OS by offering them as apps. You have Google Play Services, you have the apps, and you have the hardware. With iOS and Microsoft, the equivalent of "Google Play Services" is integrated into the OS, it is not separate. You do not have a choice, either to upgrade it to the latest version, or just leave it as is. IOS takes it even further by baking their latest and greatest directly into the OS. Not everything is a stand alone app.

Bottom line is that older phones should NOT get Windows 10. If they can, and Windows 10 works well, then that means that either the hardware was already up and above what was required for Windows Phone 8.1 to work well in the first place. And we already know this to be true, because WP 8.1 is so efficient, on 512 MB devices. So this suggests that Microsoft was offering an operating system, a minimal operating system, that only needed a fraction of the hardware on the device to work. And that is exactly what Apple does, and that is why you can use iOS 9 on an old iPhone 4S.

With Android, we often complain about the OEMs but the bottom line is that without interference by the OEMs, the worst Android phones would automatically get that update and you would have Marshmallow running on phones that are only good enough to run KitKat. Granted, you can already do that on Android if you root your phone, but without that block in place the floodgates would open.

Sometimes it is just better to purchase a new device in order to get the latest software. The 550 is a cheap Windows 10 device that was actually designed to run the OS. Microsoft brought this on themselves through the Insider Program, IMHO. That program may have given the illusion, that because the preview worked well on the phone, that the actual release will run well on the phone. Just get a 550 for $140 and make your life a lot easier, than waste time dealing with an OS that you can never experience fully on an old device anyway. Time is money. By the time you work out the kinks, you could have earned the difference in what you've saved by not purchasing new hardware.

I completely disagree regarding your stance on OS fragmentation. Having too many versions of an OS in production makes development very hard to keep up with. Apple's iOS is somewhat fragmented, but generally new apps run on most iOS devices around today. Android is way more fragmented, with many of those OEM features you mentioned working on some devices and not on others. Given that Windows Phone has such a small market share and far less apps in the Windows Store, if they were to fragment too much like Android the app gap would only widen, particularly for users on mobile carriers that currently cannot get the new Lumia phones.

 

[Christopher Kendalls]

I completely disagree regarding your stance on OS fragmentation. Having too many versions of an OS in production makes development very hard to keep up with. Apple's iOS is somewhat fragmented, but generally new apps run on most iOS devices around today. Android is way more fragmented, with many of those OEM features you mentioned working on some devices and not on others. Given that Windows Phone has such a small market share and far less apps in the Windows Store, if they were to fragment too much like Android the app gap would only widen, particularly for users on mobile carriers that currently cannot get the new Lumia phones.

If those devices are not capable of running the feature they shouldn't get the feature. And, the fact that the features are available as apps, as opposed to requiring an OS update that the carrier will block, means that you can get the features without having to upgrade the OS. But you can still get blocked when Google Play tells you that your device is not capable of running the app.

I've tried the workarounds; downloading an APK off of the internet and installing it outside of Google Play. And what happens is that I am forcing an app that Google Play has told me that my device is not capable of running on old hardware. And I run into issues, every single time. Call that fragmentation if you want, but at least you don't have people running software they're not capable of running. Of course if they root and force the issue that is completely up to them.

You'll never get everyone onto the same version of the OS. It simply is not going to happen. On the desktop, we still have users running Windows 2000. How do you propose that Microsoft forces everyone onto Windows 10? They only offered the upgrade for 7, 8, and 8.1. Because people running older versions, like Vista, XP, 2000, etc. should not run Windows 10 on their computer. They might get it to work. But they'll run into issues, every single time.

Phones are no different. There are still Windows Phone 7, 7.5, 7.8, and 8 in the wild. You can't put all of those phones on Windows 10. Microsoft was right to prevent 7x phones from updating to Windows Phone 8, BUT, Microsoft should have continued development of their own core services for those old platforms. That is the difference. You don't need Marshmallow, because you can still run the latest apps on KitKat. The problem with Windows 10, as it corresponds to phones, is that Microsoft is not updating core services for Windows Phone 8.1 anymore. What if I don't want Windows 10? Why can't I get Groove Music on WP 8.1? Why can't I get an updated Video app?

Right now that does not matter because the core apps aren't much better on Windows 10 anyway, if they are even as good. But what happens when Windows 10 users get functionality that isn't available to WP 8.1 users. I'm not referring to services like Hello and Continuum, but when the core apps are better on Windows 10 and they suck on WP 8.1? Windows 10 has the Edge browser. Internet Explorer, on WP 8.1 sucks. Now if this were Android, it wouldn't matter because Chrome is available on all versions of Android going back to Jellybean. And all of the alternative browsers for Windows Phone 8.1, work as though they are based off of IE.

That's all I'm really saying. Not that fragmentation is good. But that fragmentation is inevitable, because people should not have to upgrade just because the technology has advanced and most people will not, and do not upgrade. Sure, some cut off their nose to spite their face, but there are usually instances where a company could support those users, but won't, because they want to push hardware sales, in order to push sales of new services onto those old customers that are no longer generating revenue.

 

[Juan Rosado Casanova]

Heck why not? If the Nokia/Microsoft WP can support Win10 go for it... But everyone else like HTC and other manufactures shouls be left out... Have them worry about their devices being to update or not.

 

[fatclue_98]

^^The One M8 and the LG Lancet are already approved models to run the Insider program.
Sent from my Lumia 2520 on Tapatalk

 

[zapppa83]

My 625 still freezing on .71 :crying:
Perfonmance seems better with Edge and Groove

 

[Keith White Jr]

Microsoft is being nice but the truth of the matter is that older phones with hardware that cannot handle how Windows 10 should run, ideally, are going to end up with a deprecated Windows 10 experience. This is if these phones get Windows 10 at all. Windows Hello and Continuum are two features we already know are not going to make it to all of the phones that have Windows Phone 8.1.

Microsoft did not want a repeat of what happened when Windows Phone 8 came out, so now we have this. The truth of the matter is that older phones cannot handle newer software if the new OS is that radical of a departure from the old way of doing things. The hardware literally, cannot provide a smooth experience. If you had an Apple device then you already know that the transition from 5 to 7 on an iPhone 4S was not smooth; so why would anyone want to upgrade a 4S to 9. It is truly, at their own risk.

Android has a better approach by fragmenting the newer features from the OS by offering them as apps. You have Google Play Services, you have the apps, and you have the hardware. With iOS and Microsoft, the equivalent of "Google Play Services" is integrated into the OS, it is not separate. You do not have a choice, either to upgrade it to the latest version, or just leave it as is. IOS takes it even further by baking their latest and greatest directly into the OS. Not everything is a stand alone app.

Bottom line is that older phones should NOT get Windows 10. If they can, and Windows 10 works well, then that means that either the hardware was already up and above what was required for Windows Phone 8.1 to work well in the first place. And we already know this to be true, because WP 8.1 is so efficient, on 512 MB devices. So this suggests that Microsoft was offering an operating system, a minimal operating system, that only needed a fraction of the hardware on the device to work. And that is exactly what Apple does, and that is why you can use iOS 9 on an old iPhone 4S.

With Android, we often complain about the OEMs but the bottom line is that without interference by the OEMs, the worst Android phones would automatically get that update and you would have Marshmallow running on phones that are only good enough to run KitKat. Granted, you can already do that on Android if you root your phone, but without that block in place the floodgates would open.

Sometimes it is just better to purchase a new device in order to get the latest software. The 550 is a cheap Windows 10 device that was actually designed to run the OS. Microsoft brought this on themselves through the Insider Program, IMHO. That program may have given the illusion, that because the preview worked well on the phone, that the actual release will run well on the phone. Just get a 550 for $140 and make your life a lot easier, than waste time dealing with an OS that you can never experience fully on an old device anyway. Time is money. By the time you work out the kinks, you could have earned the difference in what you've saved by not purchasing new hardware.

I couldn't disagree with you more. For one, phones running Windows 8 (or 8.1) that are upgraded to 10 are not the only phones that will miss "Windows Hello" and "Continuum". Neither the 550 or the soon to be released 650 will have those features either. Those are features that are reserved for premium phones like the Lumia 950.

Also I don't think W10 is so much more advanced over 8.1 that older phones will have trouble with it one it is officially released. Most problems people are having with it now are also problems on the 950 and 950XL and will hopefully be ironed out by the time W10 is an official release and not just an "insiders" release.

I have installed W10 on my youngest son's Lumia 520, my middle son's Lumia 635 and on both my Lumia 640 and my old Lumia 1320, and it works fine on all of them. But I also made sure to do a hard reset on each phone before using W10 on them.

And last but not least, if you have a phone that W10 won't run great on, then you have the choice not to upgrade it! My iPad 2 is still running an old version of iOS because I know the new will make it run like garbage.

Bottom line, if you don't want it don't get it. Your phone will still work and you will still have the OS you like and trust. But if you do want it, you should have that ability to get it. I applaud Microsoft for not leaving all the W8 users in the dark like they did with W7!

 

[Canjok]

I think they should at least roll out W10M to 820 and better.
1) Microsoft has to compete against Apple and with the missing update from 7 to 8 it just would only be bad headlines again.
2) A software update is also advertisement. If the hardware of your smartphone is not able to do the job of an interesting new feature, this keyfeature could be a reason to buy a newer phone. Without the update, you may miss this certain key feature and not upgrade at all.
3) It gives you a preview of the stability of the new software. If the new os version on your old phone runs slow but reliable, you might end up with an upgrade for a faster experience. Otherwise, if it's slow and unreliable with crashes, restarts or just simple things running unreliable, you know that newer hardware might be faster, but not necessary more reliable (which seems to be the case and is the reason why W10M is only for the new hardware at the moment).

In summary, if they release stable updates to older devices, consumers know that newer hardware will only run better.

 

[Keith White Jr]

I think they should at least roll out W10M to 820 and better.
1) Microsoft has to compete against Apple and with the missing update from 7 to 8 it just would only be bad headlines again.
2) A software update is also advertisement. If the hardware of your smartphone is not able to do the job of an interesting new feature, this keyfeature could be a reason to buy a newer phone. Without the update, you may miss this certain key feature and not upgrade at all.
3) It gives you a preview of the stability of the new software. If the new os version on your old phone runs slow but reliable, you might end up with an upgrade for a faster experience. Otherwise, if it's slow and unreliable with crashes, restarts or just simple things running unreliable, you know that newer hardware might be faster, but not necessary more reliable (which seems to be the case and is the reason why W10M is only for the new hardware at the moment).

In summary, if they release stable updates to older devices, consumers know that newer hardware will only run better.

But it runs awesomely on my Lumia 640