(Deja Vu) Palm all over again?

[slimchap]

The thing is, it is only in the United States that Windows Phone market share if falling.

That is not true... In my country nobody wants to hear about Windows Phone or Lumia. People don't even believe in Windows 10 not to talk about Windows 10 Mobile. Nigeria.

 

[mariusmuntean]

The thing is, it is only in the United States that Windows Phone market share if falling.

not anymore. besides Italy, it is falling in Europe also, not at the same pace but nevertheless it is not good. the launch of the two 950s did not bring much to the table because were launched with a buggy OS and overpriced. and windows 10 mobile as it is now will make many switch platforms. I have recently made a poll at my workplace to see which platforms are being used. from 1280 people, 900 responded. from these about 86 have a windows phone right now, older devices from 8.1 era, and only two decided to stay with w10. Rest of them are switching to something else because of the horrible OS. how many like the new 950s? almost all, but none are willing to buy it again, because of the OS.
The idea behind windiws 10 is great, but that's it, the idea. The way w10 mobile is right now is totally wrong, from performance to design.

 

[Mark Baker3]

The 650 will help in europe hugely. I see alot of them about when on the train..... Well 640s anyway.

 

[Ivan05il]

Last year I used to be excited about the previews, I had to have each of them installed, I did not mind the bugs, they were a part of the game. I was not worried much about them not disappearing too quickly. But then it was released with new handsets and the problems I was dealing with were still there according to the reports. It was like a bucket of cold water. I find it highly unprofessional to release such a product. I am in a software development, so I know you can't remove them all, but the obvious ones must be gone. Also MS not caring if they sold the phones to general public or not. This is a cutthroat business and being zen about it makes no sense. They don't care enough to put up a fight, to bring out new exciting devices, there was nothing for years, I am guessing because they were not allowed to put more money into this sinking ship. It pains me, I was with WP since it was 7.0 and I had a belief that something would become of it, but not anymore. I still like my L1520, the best phone I had, but I don't think I am going to put W10 on it. And when it dies, I will have a decision to make, iOS or Android.

 

[vishwas_prabhu]

Nokia should not have abandoned Symbian and MeeGo, Nokia should not have sold itself to MS...Yes...WM is dying

 

[SeptynAde]

my report to the station: in Indonesia WM10 is getting booted and me as a windows addict got bullied and left alone, a lot. may the force be with us all

 

[murtaza_p]

what Microsoft needs is innovation. all the phones which were under nokia had some "wow" factor which made me own almost every one of them. they looked gorgeous and every phone that I owned I felt content . with the brilliant camera of the 920 (for that time) to the monster 41 mp camera and the oversampling technique opted by the 1020 to the metal chassis of the last nokia Lumia branded phone the 830 had that amazing feel to own the phone in spite the shortcomings of the app ecosystem . even though I have a LG G4 dual sim I still am inclined to the MS OS which always made me use my second sim in the Lumia. So when I decided to buy swap the Lumia 830 as I felt it wasn't quick enough to I din swap for the L950/950XL as I felt It din have the charm of the old lumians and hence picked up a Lumia 1520 in the blink of an eye, and I felt happy with my decision over the 950/950XL as the device just din feel worthy enough to be a flagship, the build as compared to the 1520 felt cheap and in India its still ridiculously priced . so until Microsoft doesn't take up some design cues from its previous lumians , my 1520 is a keeper .

 

[WillysJeepMan]

what Microsoft needs is innovation. all the phones which were under nokia had some "wow" factor which made me own almost every one of them. they looked gorgeous and every phone that I owned I felt content . with the brilliant camera of the 920 (for that time) to the monster 41 mp camera and the oversampling technique opted by the 1020 to the metal chassis of the last nokia Lumia branded phone the 830 had that amazing feel to own the phone in spite the shortcomings of the app ecosystem . even though I have a LG G4 dual sim I still am inclined to the MS OS which always made me use my second sim in the Lumia. So when I decided to buy swap the Lumia 830 as I felt it wasn't quick enough to I din swap for the L950/950XL as I felt It din have the charm of the old lumians and hence picked up a Lumia 1520 in the blink of an eye, and I felt happy with my decision over the 950/950XL as the device just din feel worthy enough to be a flagship, the build as compared to the 1520 felt cheap and in India its still ridiculously priced . so until Microsoft doesn't take up some design cues from its previous lumians , my 1520 is a keeper .

I think that Microsoft has been innovative enough. Live tiles alone is a wonderful innovation that combines widgets and icons. I prefer it over the UIs of iOS and Android. The streamlined nature of the underlying OS is fantastic... battery life on my 520 was amazing.

If Microsoft is interested in turning things around, the following needs to happen:

• Make up with Google. Whatever corporate feuding that went on that resulted in a boycott of Google providing their apps/services on Windows Phone needs to be dealt with. None of this 3rd party fill ins... Google apps directly from Google.
• Be Practical, Stop with the FUD. Microsoft climbed to the top of the heap back in the day by spreading FUD rather than actually delivering. That doesn't work anymore because there are companies now that are actually producing things that move technology forward.
  
  Stop with Belfiore demonstrating a phone that can run desktop Windows that can be converted to a full computer unless that capability is within 3 months of being released as a product. Stop showing what is possible and produce it!
  
  Every time Microsoft showcases some possibility that never comes to fruition, like "custom blades" for the Surface, it leaves a negative impression with people.
• Demonstrate a REAL commitment to the mobile space. Microsoft has perhaps the worst reputation in the mobile space... maybe even worse that Blackberry. They have no one to blame but themselves. Microsoft needs to admit (to industry insiders, techies, and enthusiasts like us) to their multiple reboots in the mobile space, articulate what they've learned, why it happened, and why it won't happen in the future.
  
  They need to make a corporate promise to a serious long-term commitment and stick to it... regardless. There is no shortcut to a track record. It will take years to undo the damage they've done... and they may never fully recover. But the payoff to the company's image overall will improve if they do.

 

[murtaza_p]

I think that Microsoft has been innovative enough. Live tiles alone is a wonderful innovation that combines widgets and icons. I prefer it over the UIs of iOS and Android. The streamlined nature of the underlying OS is fantastic... battery life on my 520 was amazing.

If Microsoft is interested in turning things around, the following needs to happen:

• Make up with Google. Whatever corporate feuding that went on that resulted in a boycott of Google providing their apps/services on Windows Phone needs to be dealt with. None of this 3rd party fill ins... Google apps directly from Google.
• Be Practical, Stop with the FUD. Microsoft climbed to the top of the heap back in the day by spreading FUD rather than actually delivering. That doesn't work anymore because there are companies now that are actually producing things that move technology forward.
  
  Stop with Belfiore demonstrating a phone that can run desktop Windows that can be converted to a full computer unless that capability is within 3 months of being released as a product. Stop showing what is possible and produce it!
  
  Every time Microsoft showcases some possibility that never comes to fruition, like "custom blades" for the Surface, it leaves a negative impression with people.
• Demonstrate a REAL commitment to the mobile space. Microsoft has perhaps the worst reputation in the mobile space... maybe even worse that Blackberry. They have no one to blame but themselves. Microsoft needs to admit (to industry insiders, techies, and enthusiasts like us) to their multiple reboots in the mobile space, articulate what they've learned, why it happened, and why it won't happen in the future.
  
  They need to make a corporate promise to a serious long-term commitment and stick to it... regardless. There is no shortcut to a track record. It will take years to undo the damage they've done... and they may never fully recover. But the payoff to the company's image overall will improve if they do.

agreed with every word you said . however I still feel Microsoft lacks the original charm it had of the previous lumians. They don't have that aesthetic appeal that the previous XX20 and XX30 series carried . The cameras for example, I don't see much improvement over my 1520 as compared to the 950 twins , the boxy body , and what ever happened to that beautiful 2.5D curved screen that the previous lumias had ??
yes agree Microsoft gave the users a removable battery and a micro SD card slot but the same is offered by my other phone the LG G4 and it still looks gorgeous .
I believe on the software front Microsoft did a big mistake by releasing the technical preview versions of W10 to the public , the software is fresh and breaks the monotony of IOS and android but had they released this build 10586.63 directly with the L950/950XL and released this as an RTM directly the people would have appreciated this much better rather than always having an IF or a BUT and comparing it to other platforms . yes I agree this OS Isn't stable & crashes but with the number of technical preview versions released I guess the public and even me at times are expected the next iteration to be flawed even before its released.
The pricing as well is a complete stupidity !

 

[celticmagick]

It's the same boat that BlackBerry is in. In order to regain traction you must give consumers a reason to switch. Simply having apps won't do it.

Someone mentioned that BB10 is innovative. BB10 is simply another OS that did the same as the other platforms but with "for" apps. The Hub isn't a big enough selling point for the brain washed masses. Also, BlackBerry sold out to Android and they're still in the toilet - proof that apps aren't the saving grace.

The same goes for Windows mobile. It's just another OS but without the important key apps. What can Microsoft do to generate interest in their platform - both desktop and mobile? Windows mobile needs an ability (one that isn't buggy and half baked) that the other mobile OS' lack in order to gain momentum.

 

[mariusmuntean]

It's the same boat that BlackBerry is in. In order to regain traction you must give consumers a reason to switch. Simply having apps won't do it.

Someone mentioned that BB10 is innovative. BB10 is simply another OS that did the same as the other platforms but with "for" apps. The Hub isn't a big enough selling point for the brain washed masses. Also, BlackBerry sold out to Android and they're still in the toilet - proof that apps aren't the saving grace.

The same goes for Windows mobile. It's just another OS but without the important key apps. What can Microsoft do to generate interest in their platform - both desktop and mobile? Windows mobile needs an ability (one that isn't buggy and half baked) that the other mobile OS' lack in order to gain momentum.

They've had years to do this and failed

 

[murtaza_p]

It's the same boat that BlackBerry is in. In order to regain traction you must give consumers a reason to switch. Simply having apps won't do it.

Someone mentioned that BB10 is innovative. BB10 is simply another OS that did the same as the other platforms but with "for" apps. The Hub isn't a big enough selling point for the brain washed masses. Also, BlackBerry sold out to Android and they're still in the toilet - proof that apps aren't the saving grace.

The same goes for Windows mobile. It's just another OS but without the important key apps. What can Microsoft do to generate interest in their platform - both desktop and mobile? Windows mobile needs an ability (one that isn't buggy and half baked) that the other mobile OS' lack in order to gain momentum.

agreed . however apps isn't going to save Microsoft , the consumer needs more than just apps. as ive always believed that one cant "just" have a windows phone as a daily driver specially with a half baked os , the W10 platform as of now isn't as stable as the IOS and Android competitions, on the other hand the Lumia 950/950XL still are more expensive than the best of android phones from most companies including LG and Samsung specially with such an OS. its reached to such a state that the 950XL is only on "order basis" in my city now as the retailers don't want any dead stock with them however getting a new Lumia 1520 was fairy easy for me including some of the old Lumia models . Microsoft really needs some solid phones which carried the same charm as the old lumians let it be in any department (camera/looks/fit and finish) and not just apps . once the sales numbers are back up so will the developers take more interest in developing apps for this ecosystem as at this point why would they develop apps for a failing ecosystem? just like the blackberry hub was not a "moving factor" for the masses to adopt blackberry like wise the camera and image processing capabilities aren't enough to move the masses to the windows ecosystem.

 

[justmoe40]

WM was never meant to compete. nobody expected it and relying on it is only going to get you frustrated. Microsoft plays this game smart and controls the part of the industry that matters. Without MS all platforms would lack certain functionality without certain apps and patent agreements. WP is a niche market and will always suffer at the onset of new releases. mostly apps suffer and platform has to grow out of a beta. those who use WP and stay go in understanding this but also see something that dominates the industry either now or in the future.

 

[Revvin]

I used a Windows Phone a few years ago and absolutely hated it. It was a Nokia Lumia 820 that I was issued by the company I worked for because someone in our office fell for the patter given to them by the local phone store. It was pretty dire, very few apps and the battery life was truly awful. For a group of engineers out on the go having to deal with sub-contractors, wholesalers, clients etc. while on the move the battery rarely lasted more than half a day. We had to buy in car chargers just to make the phone last a working day. Batteries tend to make up for most of the weight of a device and the 820 weighed a ton compared to my iPhone 4 at the time so it was surprising that the battery life was so bad.

Fast forward to this year and I started with a new company and....got issued with a Windows Phone. This time its a Lumia 640 and I'm rather liking it! Some of the others in the office grumbled about a lack of apps but I have everything on there I need for my day to day working life - I don't really need much more than email, a browser, camera and of course the ability to make calls. The battery life is very good and has lasted up to two days on a single charge and even if I was using this phone for personal use it still has the apps I need like WhatsApp, Facebook, Twitter etc. The camera is very good, impressive compared with my own phone - an Xperia Z3.

I like the look of the Lumia 950, I prefer the bigger XL model and if I were to buy a phone right now I think I'd be very tempted to buy one. In the past I have shied away from phones like the Lumia and Galaxy series with their plastic bodies in favour of handsets that feel premium like the iPhone 4, 5 and now my Xperia Z3. The catch is that while the iPhone 4 proved to be quite a hardy device the iPhone 5 dropped once which resulted in a massive dent which pushed the front glass out and the rear aluminium body pitted and scratched terribly even in a case which made it look far from premium if I took it out of the case. The Xperia Z3 dropped once and smashed so the reality is for me a phone like the Lumia 950 with a replaceable back cover is really not an issue and may even be considered a plus!

My contract is not up until next October so by then perhaps the rumoured Surface Phone will be announced, it may well be a premium handset, I think its perhaps something Microsoft need but if they released an updated 950 I think that would also be very tempting. I've switched from Blackberry to iOS to Android but its Windows Phone that is the most tempting to me right now and I'm seeing a lot more of them around which is odd as sales figures are supposed to be down.

 

[sevoman]

That is exactly why you can't fall behind... ever. In the tech game, catching up can be and usually is impossible. Even for a juggernaut like Microsoft that has all the resources in the world, INCLUDING a base of over 90 percent global PC users.. they still couldn't do it. In fact, the reason MS is so keen on pushing everyone to Windows 10 is not because they want to better than mobile share, but because they were also starting to lose share in the desktop operating system market. Windows 8/8.1 probably lost about 1% or more market share to Mac. This and the popularity of iPhones creating windows to mac converts, MS realized that their ENTIRE product like is on the chopping block if they don't get their acts together. At this point they are still not out of the woods, they need to write off the whole Windows mobile fiasco and just concentrates and keeping their market share and not losing any more to Mac. Just a few more percent loss could suddenly avalanche to record drops in their PC market share with Apple gaining. In business, nothing is guaranteed, and if you snooze, you lose.

 

[Planblover08]

Lumia 950 fire sale

The Lumia or MS phone hardware will die but WM10 won't. Universal apps will keep it alive. That's why im waiting on the fire sale of Lumia 950s.

 

[mariusmuntean]

Re: Lumia 950 fire sale

The Lumia or MS phone hardware will die but WM10 won't. Universal apps will keep it alive. That's why im waiting on the fire sale of Lumia 950s.

You can wait as long as you want. those fire sales won't happen.

 

[constantreader16]

That is exactly why you can't fall behind... ever. In the tech game, catching up can be and usually is impossible. Even for a juggernaut like Microsoft that has all the resources in the world, INCLUDING a base of over 90 percent global PC users.. they still couldn't do it. In fact, the reason MS is so keen on pushing everyone to Windows 10 is not because they want to better than mobile share, but because they were also starting to lose share in the desktop operating system market. Windows 8/8.1 probably lost about 1% or more market share to Mac. This and the popularity of iPhones creating windows to mac converts, MS realized that their ENTIRE product like is on the chopping block if they don't get their acts together. At this point they are still not out of the woods, they need to write off the whole Windows mobile fiasco and just concentrates and keeping their market share and not losing any more to Mac. Just a few more percent loss could suddenly avalanche to record drops in their PC market share with Apple gaining. In business, nothing is guaranteed, and if you snooze, you lose.

Remember when Apple fell behind and Microsoft had to bail them out? Yeah, catching up in technology isn't ever impossible. It's not an industry that ever stays the same, the goal posts always move and their is always a chance to make a comeback. Persistence and innovation is key in this marketplace, and right now, Microsoft is showing a lot of both all across the board.

 

[telomoyo]

In the latest AskDan segment, Dan gives a better idea of what is happening. He separates Windows Phone from Windows Mobile, saying that Windows Phone is pretty much done, while Windows Mobile is still alive. He says that the phones we use today, most likely will be very different from what we use in 10 years. That inspired my imagination.

 

[anon(185988)]

Re: Palm all over again (Deja vu)

Alrighty I'm in front of my laptop now.

I believe that such an x86 compatibility layer wouldn't work too well. I did see some work on XDA about such an emulator which impressed me, but the performance cost and probable power cost might be an issue.
I think the advent of Intel's Clover Trail should've changed the game though.

And at this point I realize I dont have as much counterpoints as I thought I did.

I do want to say that Google didn't really do much to support the manufacturers when they faced legal stuff from, was it Oracle? etc. I'm willing to bet they would refuse to play ball and let the manufacturer's hold the bag to spite Windows.

I agree that a compatibility layer wouldn't be an end all solution. Apple's Rosetta ran about half native speed, but the good thing about it was that it allowed users to bridge the gap from the old hardware to the new if needed, which is the important part. The older apps tend to run better than the new ones, and imo it's not much different than running high end games vs low end ones. Either way they eat up more energy, or they won't run as well depending on hardware, but choice is a good thing to have. Should have been a feature on the original Surface tablet at a minimum.

You might be right about Google not playing ball, but MS gunning their third parties definitely didn't help their case.